What does the pentagram represent,if(according to beta 69)it's not the Devil?



[This message has been edited by Valmont (edited 07-12-2005).]

And, if our founding fathers(in the U.S.) used this symbol, were they really christians or something else?

Your thread is ok now.

Please continue the discussion.

Upon reflecting on my post I regret the threat I made, I appologize for editing your post, though you did refer to me as a Nazi.

I just want the rules followed, I'm sure you understand that.

Please forgive my rash judgement, it shall NOT happen again.

-Val

[This message has been edited by Valmont (edited 07-12-2005).]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram

It's ok, Val, you'll get the hang of it.

a quick history of the pentagram.

The pentagram has been used for a long time, but it really gained popularity with Pythagoras who saw it as mathematically perfect. It was used by other groups as well, but not as the main symbol.

Christians started using the pentagram, it represented the five wounds of christ. Although rare compared to other christian symbols it was worn in the crusades as a symbol of protection.

In the mid 1800's a picture of Baphomet (a creature, most likely purely symbolic with a goat head) was drawn with a point up pentagram on it's forehead. This was the first time goathead and pentragram come together.

Bephomet has mixed origins, it's possibly a symbol of wisdom or a pagan idol (this is unlikely, although it has become a pagan idol), but was never considered Satan.

Bephomet became connected with Satan when in the 20th century LaVey created the goathead inside an inverted pentagram. In LaVey satanism, "satan" is symbolic and not considered an actual creature.

Around the same time as LaVey, Wicca was created and took the symbol as it's own. A bunch could be writen about the wiccan use but it generally represents the 5 elements and is used to invoke spells. Inverted it can be used as invoking earthly spells (point up used for spiritual spells) or as a symbol of rank. Different Wiccan groups have different views, but none of them link it with Satan like LaVey.

quote:Originally posted by KISE:

And, if our founding fathers(in the U.S.) used this symbol, were they really christians or something else?

If you uses the fundy defenitions of christianity "something else" would be a better description. Alot of them were Free Masons and they are mutualy exsclusive acoarding to people like Jack Chick.

http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm

This is a secular humanist/anti-christian (depending on what side you are on) site that I found a link to on wikipedia.

I thought it was an ancient pagan symbol that represented the path that venus took across the night sky. It has many, many connotations and is actually really diverse.

However, christians asscociated it with the Devil et cetera during their genocide of pagan religions.

quote:Originally posted by Valmont:

Your thread is ok now.

Please continue the discussion.

Upon reflecting on my post I regret the threat I made, I appologize for editing your post, though you did refer to me as a Nazi.

I just want the rules followed, I'm sure you understand that.

Please forgive my rash judgement, it shall NOT happen again.

-Val



Apology accepted. Your not a Nazi, I was just fucking with you.

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

a quick history of the pentagram.

The pentagram has been used for a long time, but it really gained popularity with Pythagoras who saw it as mathematically perfect. It was used by other groups as well, but not as the main symbol.

Christians started using the pentagram, it represented the five wounds of christ. Although rare compared to other christian symbols it was worn in the crusades as a symbol of protection.

In the mid 1800's a picture of Baphomet (a creature, most likely purely symbolic with a goat head) was drawn with a point up pentagram on it's forehead. This was the first time goathead and pentragram come together.

Bephomet has mixed origins, it's possibly a symbol of wisdom or a pagan idol (this is unlikely, although it has become a pagan idol), but was never considered Satan.

Bephomet became connected with Satan when in the 20th century LaVey created the goathead inside an inverted pentagram. In LaVey satanism, "satan" is symbolic and not considered an actual creature.

Around the same time as LaVey, Wicca was created and took the symbol as it's own. A bunch could be writen about the wiccan use but it generally represents the 5 elements and is used to invoke spells. Inverted it can be used as invoking earthly spells (point up used for spiritual spells) or as a symbol of rank. Different Wiccan groups have different views, but none of them link it with Satan like LaVey.



It's funny that the crusader's used the pentagram, because they killed tons of innocent people and are often associated as early illuminati.

quote:Originally posted by KISE:

Apology accepted. Your not a Nazi, I was just fucking with you.

Very glad there is no ill will.

That's the last thing I want.

And now--

On with the show!

-Val

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

If you uses the fundy defenitions of christianity "something else" would be a better description. Alot of them were Free Masons and they are mutualy exsclusive acoarding to people like Jack Chick.

http://w ww.dimensi onal.com/~ randl/founders.htm (http: //www.dime nsional.co m/~randl/f ounders.ht m)

This is a secular humanist/anti-christian (depending on what side you are on) site that I found a link to on wikipedia.



It seems to be the same now, George Bush only claims to be christian so he can get the votes in the bible belt.

quote:It's funny that the crusader's used the pentagram, because they killed tons of innocent people and are often associated as early illuminati.

Perhaps you are thinking of the knights templar?

Kise, no...Val is still a Nazi, he's just a reformed Nazi that's not above apologizing for his bigotry.

It's the newest thing, apparently. Nazi's getting touch with their softer side.

Sears started this revolution, so send your hate mail to THEM.

*teehee*

quote:Originally posted by KISE:



It seems to be the same now, George Bush only claims to be christian so he can get the votes in the bible belt.

Personally, it would be pretty damn hard for me to fake praying before every meeting, going to church every Sunday, and giving detailed descriptions of my faith to an entire nation for 8 years straight.

But that's just me.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Personally, it would be pretty damn hard for me to fake praying before every meeting, going to church every Sunday, and giving detailed descriptions of my faith to an entire nation for 8 years straight.

But that's just me.



You don't have Karl Rove behind you, coaching you.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Personally, it would be pretty damn hard for me to fake praying before every meeting, going to church every Sunday, and giving detailed descriptions of my faith to an entire nation for 8 years straight.

But that's just me.



And even if you think he is a true christian, look at the company he keeps, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, you think those guys are honest? You need to hone your scumbag radar.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Perhaps you are thinking of the knights templar?



Based on what I have read that's who the crusaders were, knights templar. They carried a flag with a red cross just like Christopher Columbus.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Personally, it would be pretty damn hard for me to fake praying before every meeting, going to church every Sunday, and giving detailed descriptions of my faith to an entire nation for 8 years straight.

But that's just me.



Have you watched Fahrenheit 9/11? Now, I don't like Michael Moore, I think he's a pussy, but some of the things in that movie are indisputable. If you haven't seen it, at least check it out for shits n' giggles.



[This message has been edited by KISE (edited 07-12-2005).]

By the way, people from NY and CA are the best at spotting scumbags, we're loaded with them.

Bush and the rest of them are "Christian," if not part of some insane off-brand cult. They're neoconservatives bent on taking over the world. I'm sure they have some weird beliefs here and there.

Anybody remember Bohemian Grove (http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/bohemian-grove/)?

Originally it belonged to the Greek goddess, Aphrodite (or Venus; Roman).

It used to be the ultimate sign of femininity, why, I don't know. It was changed into the sign of the devil in order to twart beliefs in female divinity. Five point stars were a sign of femininity and the pentagram is supposed to represent that.

**Somebody needs to fuckin fix flood control http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif) **

Anyways...

My saying that the symbol was originally connected to Aphrodite isn't entirely true. She isn't even the most popular goddess that it's been connected to. It is also connected to the goddess ishtar for the same reasons, but most importantly it is connected to The Mother Isis.

That sybol was originally a representation of all things feminine. Childbirth, protection, life/fertility, nurturing, etc.

I felt obligated to make this second post becuase I've read several of the responses to your question and they've been moot at best. Some have been totally wrong, unralted, or misguided. (Sorry folks, just stating a fact.)

The direction you need to look in to find more ACCURATE answers to this question, is in the direction of any sort of FEMALE idolatry......

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Perhaps you are thinking of the knights templar?

No Daz, he's right, it was the Crusaders.

However, I must give you a big thumbs up on your first response in this thread, you were right on, sorry I missed it b4.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

[B] Personally, it would be pretty damn hard for me to fake praying before every meeting, going to church every Sunday, and giving detailed descriptions of my faith to an entire nation for 8 years straight.[B]

Why do christaholics have their

collective heads so far up bush's

asshole?

Is it because he kills the baby

arabs so well?