So I'm athiest, but for you christians ou there on TOTSE. How does g0d exist? Who created him? When was he created? If someone created him wouldn't there be others? Was he created at all?

Go on and answer away. I was just thinking earlier today about that. Just seeking some answers...

Are you honestly asking for concrete answers to those questions? Don't you think if we knew if a "perfect being" existed, everyone would already know?

Ontological Proof:

<OL TYPE=1>

<LI>By defintion, a perfect being has every possible perfection.

<LI>Existence is a perfection.

<LI>Ergo, a perfect being exists.

</OL>

This is a rather famous proof written by French philosopher, René Descartes, around the early 17th century.

More info: René Descartes (http://fyad.org/1zg7)

Yea i guess now it seemes kinda farfetched. I was just kinda wondering what people thought about the subject...

quote:Originally posted by God:

I am that I am

God doesn't exist in this reality. He made it. He doesn't exist in time (though he can), he made that too. In the begining was God...

quote:Originally posted by IAMN0TTH3P0STMAN:

So I'm athiest, but for you christians ou there on TOTSE. How does g0d exist? Who created him? When was he created? If someone created him wouldn't there be others? Was he created at all?

Go on and answer away. I was just thinking earlier today about that. Just seeking some answers...

Of course there are gods, Many gods, Just because they arent here now showing off their time and work doesnt mean they arent real, Its possible for people today to learn what gods learn, its called using your brain, do you know what the human mind is capable of? Read about ORMUS elements and Supraconductors at room temperature and what they do to the brain. They arent for everybody though and there are warnings for them. It is mathmatically impossible for their not to be more then one god. Look how many human minds are out there.

If you are going to create a thread asking for proof of a greater being please do not disregard the proof before it has even been given to you.

There's no point in making a thread called "If g0d is real (which he isn't) how was he created?"

That (Which he isn't) was unnecessary.

Please remain open minded.

-Val

God wasn't created, he's always been.

quote:Originally posted by godofjacob:

Of course there are gods, Many gods, Just because they arent here now showing off their time and work doesnt mean they arent real, Its possible for people today to learn what gods learn, its called using your brain, do you know what the human mind is capable of? Read about ORMUS elements and Supraconductors at room temperature and what they do to the brain. They arent for everybody though and there are warnings for them. It is mathmatically impossible for their not to be more then one god. Look how many human minds are out there.





Actually, according to Descartes, there can be only one perfect being.

Causal Proof:

<OL TYPE=1>

<LI>I have an idea of a perfect being.

<LI>Ideas are effects, so this idea has a cause.

<LI>A cause cannot be less perfect than its effect.

<LI>I am not the cause of this idea.

<LI>Ergo, a perfect being exists.

<LI>Furthermore, there can only be ONE perfect being. (If there were more than one, they'd all be identical, ergo, all the same or one.)

</OL>



[This message has been edited by bonkers (edited 07-13-2005).]

Initial comeback to the athiests that seem to think they've proved all Christian's wrong:

Ok, so (disreguarding all above posts; God created time and reality and God always was), if God doesn't exist, then how do you exist? Big Bang? Who made the carbon?

Endless battle, there's no use really.

Also remember, the classical definition of God is that he is eternal, uncreated, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and loving.

how can god 'just be' in nothing? that is why i think god is just an idea. the idea was made to explane why we are alive.

quote:Originally posted by deathDiver:

how can god 'just be' in nothing? that is why i think god is just an idea. the idea was made to explane why we are alive.

Who says that beyond our time and space there is nothing?

quote:Originally posted by deathDiver:

how can god 'just be' in nothing? that is why i think god is just an idea. the idea was made to explane why we are alive.

How can things exist in your mind, in dreams? How can ideas exist in nothing without taking up space? They'rethings aren't they? They exist, but where?

[This message has been edited by Gulielmus1260 (edited 07-13-2005).]

God is everywhere. That includes your ass.

quote:Originally posted by Gulielmus1260:

How can things exist in your mind, in dreams? How can ideas exist in nothing without taking up space? They'rethings aren't they? They exist, but where?

I think money exists in my wallet, but it doesn't. But if I rob your dumb ass, it does. Existence through action, motherfucker! And if I stab you 27 times while I'm at it, the money will feel more real when being spent.

Snoopy is a big faggoty spammer.

so god exsists, when was he created?its an obvious question, as for things to exist, they must have been created right?

god was never created, he has always been there. its beyond our realm of thinking

as for choosing a religion? pick one, or not, and wait to die. me? i picked catholocism.

fuck it, the debate between atheists and religous guys, and between religious guys and other religious guys will never end. so stop arguing!!

"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed."-one of Newton's Law. It's really puzzling how energy can exist without it actually being created.

There obviously is a god. Space, time it all had to be created by someone. I'm new to this forum so I don't know as much as everyone that posted above me. But still its a bit closed minded, and just plain dumb to be atheist. Really, if your gonna belive there is no god, atleast be agnostic. You don't know anything for sure, don't pretend you do.

quote:Originally posted by mean people still suck:

There obviously is a god... just plain dumb to be atheist. ... You don't know anything for sure, don't pretend you do.

Hmm...

it is a recurrent theme of the OT that god does not exist but rather just IS.

infact hebrew scholars assert his very name plays on this fact.

quote:Originally posted by deathDiver:

how can god 'just be' in nothing? that is why i think god is just an idea. the idea was made to explane why we are alive.

If everything has to come from somewhere else, even God, then that proves ALL "beginings" to be false. according to this, The big bang is false because the particles of hydrogen didnt just appear, they HAD to come from somewhere... just like you say God did.

quote:Originally posted by IAMN0TTH3P0STMAN:

If g0d is real (which he isn't)

It's impossible to prove or disprove that god exists, so why do you automatically asume he isn't? I mean, I don't believe a god exists, but that doesn't mean it's true.

well if there wasn't a god then how was the universe created? Even if the big bang theory is true, some higher being had to have created two atoms to initiate a reaction. They didn't just come out of nowhere.

God is a being to whom we ascribe the creation of the universe itself, right down to the laws of cause and effect. Stop trying to apply the rules of the creation to the Creator.

quote:Originally posted by IAMN0TTH3P0STMAN:

So I'm athiest, but for you christians ou there on TOTSE. How does g0d exist? Who created him? When was he created? If someone created him wouldn't there be others? Was he created at all?

Go on and answer away. I was just thinking earlier today about that. Just seeking some answers...

to answer that question,one must know why some one would ask that kind of question in the first place. god, or religion in general

isnt just an easy answer to why were all here. religion existed because we needed a message to sorta explain our actions and how we have become an intellegent species. meaning we sin,help others,or become victoms for a reason... or atleast we believe that to be true, and religion allows you to aknowlege that or disregard it, either way its up to you. god cant scientifically be explained, for it is a powerful, existing, being in our minds. athiest or not a belief in god as the all knowing creator of all things created exists in everyone. how? because we constantly look to it for help, for direction, we even look to challenge its existance. and the reason why we do all those things because we are trying to benefit ourselves from it by giving us closure, knowing that our faith can help us or our loved ones in need,even though we often hear preists say "god works in mysterious ways" as if we never did anything to sway gods judgement. or we challange it to somehow satisfy ourselfish need to have others think like we do. so some of us call ourselves athiests, because we selfishly want others aknowlege our way of thinking, by saying god is phoney. but wait a minute...

dont most of us religious types try to do the same thing. this is why we have religion,to understand our strange behavior and live our lives, and you dont have to aknowlege it to understand it. holy scriptures were written for the same reason we have sites like totse, or tv or music or literature. we live to pass on knowlege to others,that will pass it on to others for generations. even if the idea is pig headed or wonderfully insightful, we can all benefet from it because like religion we have the choice to aknowlege it or ignore it.what ever it may be, something has blessed us with living among such interesting people that we can learn from and thanks to the media and the web,we can record the views of so many people and no matter what, some one will hear it. and thats pretty much how god and religion came to be such a widespread ideal. those ideals may be what many religions refer to as an inspiration delivered by muses from god,but we express it in a way that we would understand then hopefully some one else can explain it better. thats why people say god exists because we exist.but please dont take my word for it. your question can only be answered by yourself, but looking at a bible never hurt anyone either. so i hope that long response answered your question, and forgive me if it hasnt.

quote:Originally posted by mean people still suck:

There obviously is a god. Space, time it all had to be created by someone. I'm new to this forum so I don't know as much as everyone that posted above me. But still its a bit closed minded, and just plain dumb to be atheist. Really, if your gonna belive there is no god, atleast be agnostic. You don't know anything for sure, don't pretend you do.



I agree.

And I am 100% agnostic, Not until I get solid evidence... Will I fully belive or understand.

OMNIPRESENT

Present everywhere simultaneously.

Synonyms: all-knowing, all-seeing, boundless, celestial, deathless, deific, divine, enduring, eternal, everlasting, godly, heavenly, illimitable, immortal, infinite, omnipresent, omniscient, pervading

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

I think money exists in my wallet, but it doesn't.

Sadly, I can relate to that.

Doesn't stop me from checking every 30 seconds, though.

It's great that the question of God still provokes people the way it does. Maybe, instead of perceiving God as an individual, it could be thought of as a process in which we all play a part (yes, even you). God, as such, can never be understood by individuals without revelation, and that only occurs to a very few. I like the argument that it is impossible to even imagine God without the existence of God. God must preexist the discoverer or else could never be discovered. Our problems begin when we try to put God in a human context, making judgements and taking preference over events. As such, humans question how "God" could ever let terrible things happen, when in reality everything that happens enables the individual to greater knowledge and understanding. In this context, those who are starving to death may be closer to God that any who pose the question on TOTSE. Keep posing, though, it's good for the soul.

It sounds like people on totse are confused with the individual gods in our universe, and the universe itself, why would you say that god is every atom that makes us in our real world. The elemental universe has been here before the gods, no human mind created the universe, the universe created the human mind. God is a human being so yes it is possible for you your self to become a god if you learn how, a god is one that has found the eternal life. Jesus was a god, still is a GOD, if he is alive now, jesus has become omnipresent, his brain was all seeing, immortal, and boundless. So that makes him a god. The gods use superconductors in their brain to achieve their mental powers and knowledge.

what year did 'the mordern god' first come to light? his he spoken of before that time? i think god is real because we want him to be real. we pray, give money, and die in his name. we made him real by reading the bible. but the first bible was written by the jews, so is god a jew?

quote:Originally posted by godofjacob:

It sounds like people on totse are confused with the individual gods in our universe, and the universe itself, why would you say that god is every atom that makes us in our real world. The elemental universe has been here before the gods, no human mind created the universe, the universe created the human mind. God is a human being so yes it is possible for you your self to become a god if you learn how, a god is one that has found the eternal life. Jesus was a god, still is a GOD, if he is alive now, jesus has become omnipresent, his brain was all seeing, immortal, and boundless. So that makes him a god. The gods use superconductors in their brain to achieve their mental powers and knowledge.

Are you some cultist or Buddhist?

quote:Originally posted by Gulielmus1260:

God doesn't exist in this reality. He made it. He doesn't exist in time (though he can), he made that too. In the begining was God...

Time and reality are expessions of god. They were never created. They always existed as facets of God.

Therefore "I am that I am" is still plausable.

quote:Originally posted by deathDiver:

what year did 'the mordern god' first come to light? his he spoken of before that time? i think god is real because we want him to be real. we pray, give money, and die in his name. we made him real by reading the bible. but the first bible was written by the jews, so is god a jew?

The gods are real because of evolution. They are real not because we pray for them, but because of the possibilitys of the human mind, the gods are real regardless of the bible.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Are you some cultist or Buddhist?

taoism

n 1: a Chinese sect claiming to follow the teaching of Lao-tzu but incorporating pantheism and sorcery in addition to Taoism [syn: Taoism] 2: religion adhering to the teaching of Lao-tzu [syn: Taoism] 3: popular Chinese philosophical system based in teachings of Lao-tzu but characterized by a pantheism of many gods and the practices of alchemy and divination and magic [syn: Taoism, Hsuan Chiao] 4: philosophical system developed by of Lao-tzu and Chuang-tzu advocating a simple honest life and noninterference with the course of natural events [syn: Taoism, Daoism]

It's pretty simple, really. In the beginning there was Ginnungagap. Eventually Ginnungagap came into contact with Niflheim (really cold) and Muspelheim (really hot). When the two collided with Ginnungagap a temperate zone formed. In this temperate zone etir formed, which eventually fathered Ymir, the father of Frost Giants. The rest is history.

quote:Originally posted by godofjacob:

do you know what the human mind is capable of?





Some scientist estimate that humans only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain capabilities. yikes! makes ya feel stupid!

quote:Originally posted by john_deer:



Some scientist estimate that humans only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain capabilities. yikes! makes ya feel stupid!

Actually, that's a myth. The real fact is: Some scientist estimate that those humans who believe in such stupid myths only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain capabilities.

Yikes!

quote:Ontological Proof:



1. By defintion, a perfect being has every possible perfection.

2. Existence is a perfection.

3. Ergo, a perfect being exists.

This is a rather famous proof written by French philosopher, René Descartes, around the early 17th century.

Actually, it was first written by Anselm in his "Proslogium". And it doesn't work:

http://tinyurl.com/7d4w4

Und:

"Its "fatal flaw" lies in his second premise — that existence is a form of perfection. This is not the case. It is, rather, it is a value judgement, that we — as creatures who exist — make, from an understandably biased viewpoint." http://tinyurl.com/cugw2

There's a great article on Wikipedia that complete demolishes it but I have to go. I'll post it tomorrow.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by john_deer:



Some scientist estimate that humans only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain capabilities. yikes! makes ya feel stupid!

Actually, that's a myth. The real fact is: Some scientist estimate that those humans who believe in such stupid myths only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain capabilities.

Yikes!



So how much do we really use?

100%, fuckhead.

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm

quote:Originally posted by Nephtys-Ra:

100%, fuckhead.

http:/ /www.snope s.com/scie nce/stats/10percnt.htm (http: //www.snop es.com/sci ence/stats /10percnt. htm)

Hey fuck head, we obviously cant use 100 percent of our brain all the time, that is what this artical is exclaiming. through out the day we use nearly every part by the end of the day. That doesnt mean we use every part of our brain to the fullest extent of its capability 100 percent of the time. So when you eat your using 100 percent of its capabilitys I think that would be impossible? according to fuckhead nephtys we are? We may use 100 percent of the brain, each seperate part maybe 5 percent of the day, probably less, for example when you, close your eyes and day dream you, you stop receptors from interacting with differnt parts of your brain and start to use other ones to dream or think. Just like eating, or playing a sport. but that doesnt mean we are using 100 percent of the brains capabilitys. Only the gods can use anything close to it.



[This message has been edited by godofjacob (edited 07-15-2005).]

Of course you use 100% of your brain. If you didn't it would serve no function and wouldn't be there. Just because you can't use 100% of it consciously doesn't mean you don't use 100%. Most of its usage is unconscious, i.e. running all your vital processes, causing production of enzymes and amino acids, causing digestion, regulating hormones, keeping you alive, and regulating everything else.

The myth was that people use 10%, and that's probably a figure meant to represent how much you use consciously as opposed to the rest being used unconsciously. However, there is no exact percent as it can't be measured in any way.

quote:Originally posted by Fanglekai:

Of course you use 100% of your brain. If you didn't it would serve no function and wouldn't be there. Just because you can't use 100% of it consciously doesn't mean you don't use 100%. Most of its usage is unconscious, i.e. running all your vital processes, causing production of enzymes and amino acids, causing digestion, regulating hormones, keeping you alive, and regulating everything else.

The myth was that people use 10%, and that's probably a figure meant to represent how much you use consciously as opposed to the rest being used unconsciously. However, there is no exact percent as it can't be measured in any way.

Thats right, and that is what the link he posted explained, and nephtys calls me a fuck head. I dont think we will ever know the true percentage, we still dont know as a whole what the human mind is capable of.

What ive always wondered is why people use 0 instead of o.

quote:Originally posted by IAMN0TTH3P0STMAN:

Yea i guess now it seemes kinda farfetched. I was just kinda wondering what people thought about the subject...

Everything is farfetched, no matter if you believe in the spiritual, or the scientific. It all comes down to some farfetched shit in the final analysis.

courtesy of snoopy:

http:/ /www.totse .com/en/re ligion/mis cellaneous _religious _texts/the creationof g178998.html (http: //www.tots e.com/en/r eligion/mi scellaneou s_religiou s_texts/th ecreationo fg178998.html)

hate to sound like a suck up, but snoopy that is one of the greatst txts i have ever read ever. hope you dont mind but i used the same general idea of man creating god for one of my english essay's. i got an A+.

best txt ever. all should read.

my 2 cents

edit: http://tinyurl.com/ak93z

[This message has been edited by head__hunter (edited 07-17-2005).]

God was created by humans if you catch my drift.

I'm not going to pretend that I know more then I do, and I'm a little out of my depth here, but why is it that when I debate the existence of god with a believer their trump card is "well how was the entire universe created". Now I dont know and reply as such.

Now when I say to them, how did god come about? they lways respond he just always has been, and seem to think its an acceptable answer.

How can that apply to one and not the other?

It doesn't. His answer is no better than yours.

Nobody knows, and nobody ever will know. We just cannot comprehend it. Our brains can't do it.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

It doesn't. His answer is no better than yours.

Nobody knows, and nobody ever will know. We just cannot comprehend it. Our brains can't do it.

Why won't anybody ever know? Is it impossible to find proof that god exsists or doesn't?

quote:Originally posted by bonkers:

Are you honestly asking for concrete answers to those questions? Don't you think if we knew if a "perfect being" existed, everyone would already know?

Ontological Proof:

<OL TYPE=1>

<LI>By defintion, a perfect being has every possible perfection.

<LI>Existence is a perfection.

<LI>Ergo, a perfect being exists.

</OL>

This is a rather famous proof written by French philosopher, René Descartes, around the early 17th century.

More info: René Descartes (http://fyad.org/1zg7)



actually, descartes only coined the name 'ontological argument'. the fallicious argument was originally formulated by st anselm around 1000 AD. one of the many reasons it doesn't work is because existence isn't a property like other properties of perfection.

I wish I had my Kamisama account back...

Other than that, want.

Kamisama = God (in Japanese)

quote:Originally posted by Sandwhich150:

Why won't anybody ever know? Is it impossible to find proof that god exsists or doesn't?

Yes, it is impossible. You'll have to wait until you die.

If nothing happens, then you'll know he doesn't exist. But even if that happens, you'll never know.

quote:Originally posted by bonkers:

Are you honestly asking for concrete answers to those questions? Don't you think if we knew if a "perfect being" existed, everyone would already know?

Ontological Proof:

<OL TYPE=1>

<LI>By defintion, a perfect being has every possible perfection.

<LI>Existence is a perfection.

<LI>Ergo, a perfect being exists.

</OL>

This is a rather famous proof written by French philosopher, René Descartes, around the early 17th century.

More info: René Descartes (http://fyad.org/1zg7)



Shut the fuck up. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Methusar/STFU.bmp)