"God exists because everything needs a creator, nothing can create istelf. "

And...

"Proof of God is the world around us."

What would you say? This is the general argument of a dumbass Christian with nothing productive to say. It pisses me off so damn much because they will disregard any scientific theory if it doesn't conclude with their beliefs.

So, what would you say? Hopefully Rust will drop by here and rip those Christians a new asshole (like he always does).

If everything NEEDS a creator, then who created God hey Christian boy ?

Stop posting pathetic rants about christians.

Stuff like this actually belongs in bitch and moan, we've all seen it 100000 times.

Of course that's what a christian should say, it's obviously what they believe as a christian. I don't personally think they could intelligably use it as a point of debate, because it dosen't challenge the atheist's ideals at all, since they have their own theories on how things have come to be.

Grow up and stop being antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic, if you wish to do that go to bitch and moan.

quote:Originally posted by Huggy Bear:

"God exists because everything needs a creator, nothing can create istelf. "



1. If nothing can create itself, then a god cannot create himself. If he can, then something can create itself.

2. Who created God? He's always existed? Then who are you to say that nothing else can't "just always exist"?



quote:

"Proof of God is the world around us."



They would first have to prove this ridiculous allegation. If it's a Christian, Jew or Muslim who believes in the literal word of the bible, then his completely incorrect, even if he didn't prove that idiotic assertion. Science does not point in any way, shape or form, to a god being our creator.

P.S. Beholder is correct, don't make posts just to insult theists.

What if this isn't an insult but rather he's asking for help to argue against those who judge us daily. Chistian idealists effect my way of life daily, we should all learn an effective way, possibly even compile a list of every argument against religion so that nobody has to wonder how to fight their battles but instead can put some foot to some chistian ass when the arguement arises.

I've convinced 4 people that chistianity is a sham so far, and made countless others cry like little girls as my rational thinking defeats anything they can say. You can't win against logic.

quote:Originally posted by BaKeD_gOoDs:

What if this isn't an insult but rather he's asking for help to argue against those who judge us daily. Chistian idealists effect my way of life daily, we should all learn an effective way, possibly even compile a list of every argument against religion so that nobody has to wonder how to fight their battles but instead can put some foot to some chistian ass when the arguement arises.

I've convinced 4 people that chistianity is a sham so far, and made countless others cry like little girls as my rational thinking defeats anything they can say. You can't win against logic.



you are an abject, obvious liar.

^I second that claim.

QUOTE Originally posted by BaKeD_gOoDs:

What if this isn't an insult but rather he's asking for help to argue against those who judge us daily.

If you think Christians are judging you, then there is a problem. The problem might be with the Christian's own understanding of his own religion. Judging should be left up to God.

And maybe the problem is that the Christian is not presenting his purpose and motives clear enough.

But it is also possible that it is the non-believer's understanding of what the Christian is saying... Last night my wife and i had watched a movie, and when it was over we left the TV on. Bill Maur(sp?) was on, and he was saying that when a Christian is talking to him, he "hears" them as taking the "moral highground" when in fact he is thinking that we are mentally unstable. I hardly think that either of those two things were even a part of the conversation.

Chistian idealists effect my way of life daily,

Think about this for a second: If there is a God and that God is the Judeo-Christian God, then dont you think that those ideals should effect your life?





I've convinced 4 people that chistianity is a sham so far, and made countless others cry like little girls as my rational thinking defeats anything they can say. You can't win against logic.

A friend of mine at work is an atheist and another is agnostic. When ever this conversation comes up, the atheist does not allow a word in edgewise.. he just goes on rants (he does this in political conversations/arguements too.. but since i mostly am uninterested in politics..i sit back and laugh). Anyway, the way i see him, is that he is so defensive, that he is trying to belittle anyone that tries to talk to him on the subjects... maybe in his mind, he feels that if the christian doesnt say anything, then he won. But it is impossible to say anything... Funny thing is... he is ALWAYS the one who starts the "conversation", and he ends it by ranting... the "conversation" is usually about 10 minutes long, with about 5 word by me.

The agnostic saw that i was reading a Bible or a commentary, and came up to me saying that he doesnt believe in the bible because there are so many contridictions in it. I asked him, "where" and he said that he had read the bible and does not want to discuss it.

Does anyone here see the irony???



They come up to me, and basically tell me that they dont want to talk about it. Most of the time i am just reading at break time, and when i'm not reading, it is usually a conversation about work with other employees (piss and moan session, actually).

And Christians do the same thing as my two friends.

The point i'm trying to make is that it is a two way street. A conversation should go both ways, with both sides listening to the other.

But it seldom is.

quote:Originally posted by BaKeD_gOoDs:

What if this isn't an insult but rather he's asking for help to argue against those who judge us daily. Chistian idealists effect my way of life daily, we should all learn an effective way, possibly even compile a list of every argument against religion so that nobody has to wonder how to fight their battles but instead can put some foot to some chistian ass when the arguement arises.

And that is why I answered his question.

But I don't think "This is the general argument of a dumbass Christian with nothing productive to say." was appropriate.

I'm not against insults. I'm against insults at the start of a thread and/or discussion, when nobody has insulted you in it, and where its supposed purpose is to ask a question.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

And that is why I answered his question.

But I don't think "This is the general argument of a dumbass Christian with nothing productive to say." was appropriate.

I'm not against insults. I'm against insults at the start of a thread and/or discussion, when nobody has insulted you in it, and where its supposed purpose is to ask a question.

A few months ago, I'd have doubted that...but you've stopped using ad-hom attacks almost entirely. The few times I see you using insults these days, they are actual criticisms of the argument rather than the antagonist in the debate.

I'm glad to see you've sharpened your skills even further...you very well may be the best debater on all of totse.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

A few months ago, I'd have doubted that...but you've stopped using ad-hom attacks almost entirely. The few times I see you using insults these days, they are actual criticisms of the argument rather than the antagonist in the debate.

I'm glad to see you've sharpened your skills even further...you very well may be the best debater on all of totse.



Ditto. On both points.

Well, sorry to ruin the parade, but I haven't done anything consciously to change my attitude.

I still follow by my rule, the one I followed since I got here.

If you deserve my respect, you get it, if you do not you will not.

If you haven't seen me insult it's because you haven't seen me arguing with someone who is so low in my eyes that he does not deserve any respect.

Generally it is Christians who are the one to use pathetic arguments such as "Proof of God is the world around us" which I reply with "Proof of The Big Bang is the world around us".

They also argue that everything needs a creator to be created. I know this can't apply to everything, otherwise there would be no universe. Seriously, if there was a God, why doesn't it show itself? There is NO evidence that God exists. All the evidence that God exists, (such as "the world around us") is just proof of the Big Bang.

The thing I respect about Science is they don't pull claims out their asses. They actually research what they are trying to find out. A christian, however, just says "There is a God" and nothing will change his/her beliefs, which pisses me off. They don't have evidence for a God existing. There IS evidence of the Big Bang and Evolution, OTHERWISE it would NOT be a scientific theory.

What is a valid argument to argue when a christian says "Nothing can create itself"? They'll usually state the first law of Thermodynamics. But yeah, the argument of God "always existing" is stupid, as it goes against a Christian's own argument of nothing can create itself.

If it always existing, perhaps the energy needed for the start of the Universe always existed?

quote:you very well may be the best debater on all of totse.

he is extremely good.

quote:Originally posted by dragonfire:

If everything NEEDS a creator, then who created God hey Christian boy ?

Is that all you do on totse? Just post stupid single sentence posts poorly backing up a point thats already been made?

We'll never know and we never will how the universe was created I believe that It started with an old universe turning all it's matter in to hydrogen to prevent a race of near omnipotent superbeings coming into fruition and it'll be like that again in 600000000000 years or so. Agreeing with or postulating a theory is good saying that's the way it went down is bs.

I just usually render them speechless by using a bunch of ad-hominem attacks because I suck at everything else.

Or, I'll go on an endless tirade about how we don't even know what a god, if it even exists, so it's a lesson in futility to try and define or believe in one.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

you very well may be the best debater on all of totse.

I concur.

[This message has been edited by Paradise Lost (edited 08-02-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Beholder:

Grow up and stop being antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic, if you wish to do that go to bitch and moan.

How is he supposed to do that? Incase you haven't noticed, b&m is no longer around.

quote:Originally posted by illuminatikiller:

How is he supposed to do that? Incase you haven't noticed, b&m is no longer around.

Damn good point.

To the point, I think that that is the only christian argument and that it makes no sense because it says that something has to have created the universe and that is god but what all christians know is that something can't come from nothing but none of them speak of this.