I am so against it.

Why can't parents leave their kids at home?

Shouldn't we be protecting fragile, young minds

by not exposing them to any form of religion, until the kid is at least old enough to choose what they want to believe in?

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

I am so against it.

Why can't parents leave their kids at home?

Shouldn't we be protecting fragile, young minds

by not exposing them to any form of religion, until the kid is at least old enough to choose what they want to believe in?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

hAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

hHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH



... etc.

Seriously, not taking your kids to church is forcing them to accept your godless atheist ways, because they wouldn't know anything else.

It might be better to just vaguely tell them things about whatever belief system you subscribe too, then give a full explaination around 13, then again at 18 (when they're done being a Satanist Hot Topic Kid)

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

hAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

hHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH



... etc.

Seriously, not taking your kids to church is forcing them to accept your godless atheist ways, because they wouldn't know anything else.

It might be better to just vaguely tell them things about whatever belief system you subscribe too, then give a full explaination around 13, then again at 18 (when they're done being a Satanist Hot Topic Kid)

No one should tell kids to be atheist or whatever. They should be given freedom to choose what they want. When they turn 18, they are suppose to choose their own belief.

Bringing kids to church or Sunday school is as evil as McDonald's and Disney's marketing campaign towards toddlers.

[This message has been edited by quasicurus (edited 08-02-2005).]

good point.

i was raised in a devout anglican/evangelical family and was forced to atend church,sunday school, beach mission etc etc.

the result was that i rebelled against it. with late teens i discovered sex,drugs,rock and roll and the occult.

i later came back to a christian faith but always swore i would never put my kids through what i went through.

my kids were never forced to attend church and now as teens they have a fairly healthy take on it all.

Wow this is something I ponderd maybe a year ago, havent thought about it until somebody asked it now, I my parents took me maybe 3 or four times to church and I got in trouble when I was there, I was to young to understand anything about the bible or passages, so of course I would have done anything other then studying and the pasture pulled me into his private room one time from what I remember and he excaimed something about fire from the sky or maybe fire balls, I just had a confused face and all I can remember him preaching, My parents never really took me to church after that, or really pushed a religion on me, Im Christian and Taoist, I belive in many Gods, And christs ways, now and my parents never pushed any religion on me after that. These are important questions that we are asking each other now that will effect our children in the future when we raise them.

I was bought up to choose my own faith if I felt the need to follow one. My parents believed that they shouldn't force anything upon me. I am an atheist because I'm still not really sure there is any faith out there that would suit me to follow and I don't really think I need one. I also live in a country where religion is declining very fast and I know no one that does indeed follow a faith.

One thing that really makes me mad is when I see child baptised/christened. I'm disgusted that the child has no choice in it.

When/If I ever have children I will never force them into a religion and let them make their own choices and support them in whichever direction they choose to go.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

I am so against it.

Why can't parents leave their kids at home?

Shouldn't we be protecting fragile, young minds

by not exposing them to any form of religion, until the kid is at least old enough to choose what they want to believe in?

alot of people believe so deeply in their religion, that they want their kids to follow that path as well. It's a known fact that younger you start drilling a certain kind of thinking into them the more likely it is to stick.

Why do you think so many of the more hardcore bible thumpers want their brand of religion taught in the public school systems? If you ask them though if other religions would be taught alongside their's, they look at you like you are a bug or something, or make a remark about not teaching heathen religions to their child.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

alot of people believe so deeply in their religion, that they want their kids to follow that path as well. It's a known fact that younger you start drilling a certain kind of thinking into them the more likely it is to stick.

As a Marketing student, I am always taught to market to kids, whenever possible. One of Pepsi's marketing manager once said: "You have to catch them young."

forcing a kid to attend isnt going to do anything.

but an introduction to religion is good. you bring it on slowly, that way nothings forced, theres nothing to rebel against.

The bad thing is that they hit them when they're young, when evolution (read as evil-lution) has progammed them to accept any and all information. Be it good or bad.

I say don't tell them anything until they're old enough to use critical/rational thinking.

[This message has been edited by Paradise Lost (edited 08-02-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Nihilist:

forcing a kid to attend isnt going to do anything.

but an introduction to religion is good. you bring it on slowly, that way nothings forced, theres nothing to rebel against.





This has nothing to do with forcing. Kids don't like to be forced. The introduction to religion is always done slowly and slowly, by creative means. Sunday school is fun and games with lots singing and dancing. The idea is to make them like the religion, not hate it.

I take it you either were brought to church as a chilod or just dont remember it. I do, it was boring as shit. I didnt want to listen, the preachers sermon went in one ear and out the other.

So bringing your child to church in his "indoctrination" phase wont have any effect. When he is in the "critical thinking" phase then it starts.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

I take it you either were brought to church as a chilod or just dont remember it. I do, it was boring as shit. I didnt want to listen, the preachers sermon went in one ear and out the other.

So bringing your child to church in his "indoctrination" phase wont have any effect. When he is in the "critical thinking" phase then it starts.

It was because you're bored or you don't understand anything. That's why they have special church program for kids (Sunday School).

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

It was because you're bored or you don't understand anything. That's why they have special church program for kids (Sunday School).

Thats quite different from actual church. Sunday school isnt only just for day care for kids either, neither is it mentioned in the Bible to to have Sunday School.

Besides, where would you be getting off criticizing the parents when they arent harming the child?

Its not like if you bring the child to church he is going to be a Bible thumping moron for the rest of his life.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Its not like if you bring the child to church he is going to be a Bible thumping moron for the rest of his life.

Unfortunately, this happens waaay too often.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Its not like if you bring the child to church he is going to be a Bible thumping moron for the rest of his life.

Unfortunately, this happens waaay too often.



Then the blame rests on schools not emphasizing critical thinking. Reevaluate your thread and post according ly.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Then the blame rests on schools not emphasizing critical thinking. Reevaluate your thread and post according ly.



What have schools got to do, when science textbooks have the "Evolution's a theory" stickers pasted on the covers?

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:



What have schools got to do, when science textbooks have the "Evolution's a theory" stickers pasted on the covers?

The issue of the "evolution is a theory" (which it is) has nothing to do with the issue of lack of emphasis on critical thinking nor the issue of taking ones kids to church.

My point is how can critical thinking be encouraged in schools when church people have the education system by its balls and thus making going to school as good as going to church?

[This message has been edited by quasicurus (edited 08-02-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

I am so against it.

Why can't parents leave their kids at home?

Shouldn't we be protecting fragile, young minds

by not exposing them to any form of religion, until the kid is at least old enough to choose what they want to believe in?

I dono, I wasn't forced to go to church and I turned out okay... I know some kids who are messed because they were forced to go to church, but others who are fine...

I was forced to go until confirmation (age 13), after which I was free to do whatever I wanted.

I have only been in a church twice since then, once in Georgia (crazy singing and all, unlike all other Catholic churches I've seen) and once for my grandfathers funeral in February.

I never really felt right going there and, more than anything, it made me hate church as a youngster.

Besides all that, though, I never understood people bringing infants, they always cry and make an otherwise peaceful service annoying.

I wish I had all the hours back that were wasted on being forced to go to church. it was ridiculous. it wasn't my choice, i didn't like it, and i didn't want to be there. i hated sunday school because i was too smart for the stupid teachers. they got annoyed at me answering all teh questions so we could move on and do something else. they wanted all the kids to answer their stupid questions. why do you think catholics have to promise to raise their kids catholic? do it when they're young so it sticks. that way you get enough who relate it to something positive in their unconscious so then it feels good and they do it for the rest of their life, thus generating massive revenues for the church. that's how all churches operate.

if you wait then the kid could die and go to hell for not being baptized!!!!! it doesn't matter that in the stupid bible jesus was 30 when he got baptized. he had a mission!! he was god and he couldn't die until then. whatever. it's all bullshit.

(by the way, evolution isn't a theory, it is a scientific fact, and you can look it up. evolutionary theory, however, is a theory, there's a very large difference between these two things. unfortunately, the state in which i live, kansas, has a state board of education which doesn't seem to understand this most basic of distinctions. you can watch evolution in viruses and bacteria. it doesn't take that long, and it's proof.)

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

My point is how can critical thinking be encouraged in schools when church people have the education system by its balls and thus making going to school as good as going to church?



If Christians are about to rip the public school system's sack off, why is evolution taught and Christianity, or even the practice is forbidden.

If all youve got to hit a religion your intolerant of is a complete falsehood, you ned to get bent by a semi. The world would be a far better place if people like you that make shit up and then believe it were gone.

I think exposing them can be a good thing...but there comes a time when an older child should be given the freedom to choose if he/she wants to participate further. If it's insisted upon there is bound to be resistance. My parents insisted I go until I turned 18. So that's when I stopped going...the Sunday after I turned 18.

I do like going to bible studies sometimes...but I disturb people with some of my responses to the posed questions. The problem with the questions is that they are usually 'guided' questions, questions that are supposed to lead you to the same conclusion. Not being one who is easily 'guided' like that I usually dig deeper than the average person there...so also have deeper questions...and questionable or disturbing answers sometimes. And that's not appreciated very much.



[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 08-02-2005).]

Because christianity will help make the kid a moron and incapably of doing bad. Parents love christian kids, it makes it effortless. "Honour thy mother and father"

That's your personal opinion and no one will ever make you drag your kids to church.

I personally think that - if it's done right and with an open mind - religion can be a very enlightening and comforting experience for a child. Church provides a child with a sense of security and community. It happens every week at the same time, there's a common interest, and same people for the most part.

Also, it allows a child to explore more creative avenues of thought. For instance, showing them that it's okay to believe in something that they can't prove. This can spark interests in a child that perhaps they wouldn't think possible otherwise. Religion, also, gives an explanation for certain truths that a child can't yet comprehend.

I'm not saying religion should be shoved down a childs throat. But, I think exposure and the option of it is a very good, healthy, and enlightening thing for a childs mind.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I personally think that - if it's done right and with an open mind - religion can be a very enlightening and comforting experience for a child. Church provides a child with a sense of security and community. It happens every week at the same time, there's a common interest, and same people for the most part.



How can anything religious be a mind-opening experience for anyone? Everytime I question things like for proof of God, they keep saying religion is based on faith, you have to accept God with your heart (belief in God), not with your mind (understanding God). Nobody can question the dogma, everyone just follows blindly.



[This message has been edited by quasicurus (edited 08-03-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:



What have schools got to do, when science textbooks have the "Evolution's a theory" stickers pasted on the covers?

that would be because evolution is a theory. thats the official term. if you dont like it, take it up with the scientific community, not christians.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Originally posted by LostCause:

I personally think that - if it's done right and with an open mind - religion can be a very enlightening and comforting experience for a child. Church provides a child with a sense of security and community. It happens every week at the same time, there's a common interest, and same people for the most part.



How can anything religious be a mind-opening experience for anyone? Everytime I question things like for proof of God, they keep saying religion is based on faith, you have to accept God with your heart (belief in God), not with your mind (understanding God). Nobody can question the dogma, everyone just follows blindly.





i would imagine from your overall tone of posts i recall, that they dont have the want to argue with a kid.

listen: no one has to explain a god damned thing to you. you are not owed it. you have made up your mind, which is fine. try not to impose on others simply because they think differently.

btw, just for general purposes, there is a large difference between saying what you beleive and explaining it, versus trying to convert ppl and push beliefs. it isnt a hard distinction to make.

if you are surrounded by ppl who care enough who are trying to change your mind and convert you, fuck them. thats not called for. but if you are intolerant of others beleifs and opinions, then that your problem bro, not theres.

and if merely hearing others differing opinions pisses you off, then the next time you go on a rant, remember that and act accordingly.

have a nice day.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

I was bought up to choose my own faith if I felt the need to follow one. My parents believed that they shouldn't force anything upon me. I am an atheist because I'm still not really sure there is any faith out there that would suit me to follow and I don't really think I need one. I also live in a country where religion is declining very fast and I know no one that does indeed follow a faith.

One thing that really makes me mad is when I see child baptised/christened. I'm disgusted that the child has no choice in it.

When/If I ever have children I will never force them into a religion and let them make their own choices and support them in whichever direction they choose to go.

Thats why I make my own faith.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

no one will ever make you drag your kids to church.

They won't have to if the hardliner bible thumpers get their way. It'll be taught to them in public schools, where they won't have a choice to say no.

quote:Originally posted by bushy:

Thats why I make my own faith.

You mean you started your own religion?

quote:Originally posted by Nihilist:



i would imagine from your overall tone of posts i recall, that they dont have the want to argue with a kid.

listen: no one has to explain a god damned thing to you. you are not owed it. you have made up your mind, which is fine. try not to impose on others simply because they think differently.

btw, just for general purposes, there is a large difference between saying what you beleive and explaining it, versus trying to convert ppl and push beliefs. it isnt a hard distinction to make.

if you are surrounded by ppl who care enough who are trying to change your mind and convert you, fuck them. thats not called for. but if you are intolerant of others beleifs and opinions, then that your problem bro, not theres.

and if merely hearing others differing opinions pisses you off, then the next time you go on a rant, remember that and act accordingly.

have a nice day.



Sorry, for a second there, I got too carried away and forgot to play the devil's advocate.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

How can anything religious be a mind-opening experience for anyone?

Just a question for you...

Doesn't being open-minded also include other possibilities...???

To be truly open-minded one cannot close their minds to anything, now can they? Otherwise one is no longer open-minded but has become close-minded...in a different way.



[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 08-04-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

I am so against it.

Why can't parents leave their kids at home?

Shouldn't we be protecting fragile, young minds

by not exposing them to any form of religion, until the kid is at least old enough to choose what they want to believe in?

thank you

What's the reason of going to church anyway? You can read the bible at home and Jesus suggests praying on your own. Public worship is ridiculous.

And stop brainwashing your kids. If you trust that your beliefs are good, the kids will adopt them as well on their own.

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:

They won't have to if the hardliner bible thumpers get their way. It'll be taught to them in public schools, where they won't have a choice to say no.



I'm against the bible being taught in schools (unless they're religious schools, of course), but I don't see anything wrong with teaching children about spiritual beliefs. I'm not saying cram it down their throats, or condemn them for not believing themselves, I'm just saying people should have options. We shouldn't raise our children to think anybody is a bad person just because of the god they believe in.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:

What's the reason of going to church anyway? You can read the bible at home and Jesus suggests praying on your own. Public worship is ridiculous.

And stop brainwashing your kids. If you trust that your beliefs are good, the kids will adopt them as well on their own.

Hebrews says "forsake not the assembling of yourselfves"

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I'm against the bible being taught in schools (unless they're religious schools, of course), but I don't see anything wrong with teaching children about spiritual beliefs. I'm not saying cram it down their throats, or condemn them for not believing themselves, I'm just saying people should have options. We shouldn't raise our children to think anybody is a bad person just because of the god they believe in.

Cheers,

Lost

I don't condem people for believing in God LC, nor do I think religion in any form should be taught in our public schools. Colledge that's a totally different story. I know however that there are those here and there that would just love to indoctrinate as many young minds as possible to their way of thinking. They see trying to teach their version of creation beside evolution as a way to get their foot in the door.

They also know it goes along way for the president to back them on this, which is what I hear he is doing.

I don't like that i got froced into going to church.

Even though i learn about other religions and a lot seem better in many ways than RC, i still wouldn't change religion now cause i feel i'm already attacthed to one and it's wrong to change=/

Force of habit has a part to play for me too.

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:

What's the reason of going to church anyway? You can read the bible at home and Jesus suggests praying on your own. Public worship is ridiculous.

And stop brainwashing your kids. If you trust that your beliefs are good, the kids will adopt them as well on their own.

I believe the public worship serves two purposes.

1. Vanity. This is to let everyone know that you're religious.

2. Constantine united Rome by turning pagans into Catholics. The success of Christianity I believe lies in its greater control over the people. Unlike churches, pagan religions lack discipline as they don't hold masses. Only in churches, mosques and synagogues, we see hundreds of people gathered in one place.

I was brought up with an education of just about every religion, my father took me to many places of worship, at this point he was playing with Buddhism, but he definetly made no extra effort to that front, we had long discussions about different religions, and he taught me the pro's and con's of each.

I've seen people who bring up their kids with a strict religion, and from my own experience they turn out 2 ways- They either turn into such blind followers that they have no life outside the religion.

Or, they end up rebelling against the religion- They're then torn between their 'brainwashing' as a child, and the effort to go against it, these people usually don't end up that great either.

Personally, I say religion shouldn't even be mentioned to anyone under 13, at that age, they should be given a choice.

But, that's just me- I suppose parents have the right to bring up their kids as they choose, sadly however most parents aren't competent enough to look at the long term effects it can have.

quote:Originally posted by Siatek:

Personally, I say religion shouldn't even be mentioned to anyone under 13, at that age, they should be given a choice.

But, that's just me- I suppose parents have the right to bring up their kids as they choose, sadly however most parents aren't competent enough to look at the long term effects it can have.

They think it's good for the kids. No parents would want to harm the kids.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

No parents would want to harm the kids.

I wouldn't say that. I mean, they give plenty of threats, etc, like "I'm going to kill you"