Can someone explain to me why my girlfriend just saw a cross burning infront of their church at 3:02 am? About 25 worshipers had parked cars out front and thats about it. I can google the basics about them but do they have a turbulent/Klan related history? Interesting tidbits, please!

I'm in shock right now.

its an organized religon, but probably because they are mormon. I hope you arent, save your soul.

EDIT: i wouldnt even call it christianity, where do you live?

its probably jsut people fucking around, kids having fun.

[This message has been edited by bushy (edited 08-29-2005).]

quote:i wouldnt even call it christianity

then you'd be wrong.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

then you'd be wrong.

I'm not going to refute or even argue with what you say but I just want to learn how Mormons fit under the branch of Christianity? I've seen a lot of people say they're not even close.

[This message has been edited by Paradise Lost (edited 08-29-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Captain Douche:

Can someone explain to me why my girlfriend just saw a cross burning infront of their church at 3:02 am? About 25 worshipers had parked cars out front and thats about it. I can google the basics about them but do they have a turbulent/Klan related history? Interesting tidbits, please!

I'm in shock right now.



Is your gf black?? Is the majority of her church black/spic? I doubt it would have anything to do with the klan unless the thumpers have become 10x more multikultural or something. This and the magic undies pic=0wned.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

I'm not going to refute or even argue with what you say but I just want to learn how Mormons fit under the branch of Christianity? I've seen a lot of people say they're not even close.



there is a problem with the definition of what is christianity. many christians assume it means subscription to various key doctrines.

however both biblically and from a scholarly point of view , to be christian simply means to accept jesus as 'the christ' or messiah.

At this point I have to assume that you're full of shit. Being a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, I can tell you with 100% conviction that absolutely no link between the church and the klan exists, or ever has. Like any church in the south, I am sure there were elements of mormon membership who chose to join the klan, but unlike a great deal of churches, mormons have never, as a church body supported the klan.

If you're actually telling the truth, which is highly suspect, here are some possible explanations:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>The klan simply chose to meet on our front lawn because it was a nice place

<LI>The klan was attempting to intimidate african american mormons

<LI>Some punk kids tried to immitate the klan on the front lawn of a meetinghouse

<LI>The most likely option: You were high on some sort of hallucinagenic and/or were dreaming and imagined the whole thing.

</UL>

That's my 2 cents about the "klan meeting" you "witnessed".

As for you idiots who think that we're not christian:

Kiss my mormon ass.

Time was a few years back (a few hundred) where anyone who wasn't catholic was considered not to be christian. The followers of Martin Luther were often burned at the stake for their beliefs. Why was this? Because the vatican was afraid that the tide of protestantism would spread and that they would lose power. Pure and simple. It had nothing to do with saving souls, it simply had to do with the all-too-human reaction we like to call "lust for power".

Now, in a much smaller, much less far reaching sense, that is why many mainstream christians like to call us nonchristians. Their churches are losing membership to mine. All they see is the people they used to know floating off to join us "heathen", and they assume that we must be this terrible cult. If they would only delve a little deeper, they would see that even though we disagree with several key doctrines, we still have within our church the spirit of christianity, and to a lesser extent the spirit of christ himself. "Christianity" is supposed to be about loving your neighbor, being an honest person and living your life richeously. Our membership does that pretty well usually, does yours?

1. mormons believe in christ as their savior. but they also believe that, after he was resurrected, he came to the americas and preached to people there. i'm not sure about that last one...but it's possible.

2. i used to live in a mormon household. while i've never shared any of their beliefs i do my best to respect them. "don't fuck with religion," a friend of mine used to say. anyway, i can't think of any good reason for them to be burning a cross in front of their own church. i'm thinking that it's probably some sort of prank.

3. and, homerjay, you don't seem like any mormon i've ever met. they tend to avoid saying things like "ass" and "shit" http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif). but to each his own, i guess...

4. mormons are generally nice people. leave them the fuck alone and go make fun of jehovas witnesses http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif).

yar. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

edit: as a sidenote, i don't recall any mormons ever being associated with the kkk, but i do remember that they used to not allow blacks to serve as priesthood members. i'll have to look into that one though...

[This message has been edited by lethargic (edited 08-30-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by lethargic:

1. mormons believe in christ as their savior. but they also believe that, after he was resurrected, he came to the americas and preached to people there. i'm not sure about that last one...but it's possible.



Discoverers found out South America had trade routes with China and Europe. How is this possible? Well, can you believe that a type of double-raft, with fishing nets, and a couple of sailors, can travel across the world in early history? I don't think the Jews traveled to North America, but it isn't Ludacris to think that.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

I'm not going to refute or even argue with what you say but I just want to learn how Mormons fit under the branch of Christianity? I've seen a lot of people say they're not even close.



They dont.

Joseph Smith wrote in the pearl of great price, I think it was chapter 2 verse 18-19, this is where he professed his distaste with Christianity, and basicly stated he didnt want to be considered christian.

Joseph smith, was a cultist. The book of mormon was loosly based on the bible.

The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible. That is why they arent christian, because their jesus is the brother of lucifer, while lucifer in the christian belief is an angel that played music fo god and then decided to take over, he was cast out.

They also think jesus was GOD, and not his son, which contradicts the trinity of christian belief.

and thats all I want to speak of.

quote:Originally posted by lethargic:



3. and, homerjay, you don't seem like any mormon i've ever met. they tend to avoid saying things like "ass" and "shit" http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif). but to each his own, i guess...



I'm only mormon as of december of last year. "Ass" and "shit" have faded to the background of my speech, however they still pop up fairly frequently in my online vernacular. Although I consider myself mormon in the religous sense, I have yet to fully reform myself to be "mormon" in the cultural sense. That might be a while.

quote:Originally posted by Bushy:

They also think jesus was GOD, and not his son, which contradicts the trinity of christian belief.

No dumbass, that's everyone else that believes Jesus Christ is God. We believe that Jesus Christ was/is the son of God, our savior and redeemer. He and God are one of purpose, but not one of being. Many branches of protestantism believe that as we do.

quote:Originally posted by Bushy:

Joseph Smith wrote in the pearl of great price, I think it was chapter 2 verse 18-19, this is where he professed his distaste with Christianity, and basicly stated he didnt want to be considered christian.

The pearl of great price is not one book, and nowhere in there does it say that we don't want to be considered christian.

I did however look up the verses you quoted and will indulge you in a look at them.

quote:(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 2:18 - 19 (http://scriptures.lds.org/moses/2/18#18))

18 And the sun to rule over the day, and the moon to rule over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and I, God, saw that all things which I had made were good;

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.



That obviously talks about Joseph Smith's distaste for christianity. Wow.

Let's move on.

quote:(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 2:18 - 19 (http://scriptures.lds.org/abr/2/18#18))

18 And then we passed from Jershon through the land unto the place of Sechem; it was situated in the plains of Moreh, and we had already come into the borders of the land of the Canaanites, and I offered sacrifice there in the plains of Moreh, and called on the Lord devoutly, because we had already come into the land of this idolatrous nation.

19 And the Lord appeared unto me in answer to my prayers, and said unto me: Unto thy seed will I give this land.

Really hit the nail on the head there bushy.

Neither JS mathew, nor JS history have a second chapter, so they obviously can't be what you're talking about, can they?

Relly bushy, I've met a lot of people who are full of shit with their criticisms about my religion, but you've raised the bar for those individuals. All of our scriptures are available free online as you can see in the links above, how about you help yourself and figure out what the hell you're talking about before you open your mouth, eh?

EDIT: Nicer looking UBB code

[This message has been edited by HomerJay603 (edited 08-30-2005).]

quote:Joseph smith, was a cultist. The book of mormon was loosly based on the bible.

he was also a lair, scroundrel, bigamist, adulterer, thief and forger....so pretty much what you'd expect from a prophet of god (check your bible if you think i'm being sarcastic, i'm not!)

Communism is good but Anarchy&gt;communism. Btw



Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. Wats that, ow3n3d biatch. Explain that muthafuka.

[This message has been edited by NightVision (edited 09-02-2005).]

'latter day saints'.... hmm.

I'd back up the chrisitans with theological arguments but for the fact that they'd try to convert me afterwards anyway.

but in any case, here's the basics: they believe that one god created earth. that god was once a man on another earth, who, through his own perfection/good works became a god and had many wives (and he now spends eternity fucking to create new souls for our earth). theres more details to it than that- like jesus and satan being brothers- but that's roughly it. the hole in this? well, the 'child of a god' thing goes back all the way to.. wait, theres no allowance for a beginning! the current state of affairs in the mormon belief (which is updated every year, if you don't believe me get a book of mormon from 20 years ago and get a modern one to compare it to) doesn't answer the question of "gee, which god came first?".

thus many christians (without noticing the irony) are mad at mormons and hate mormonism for 'not thinking and just blindly accepting'. much the same way that athiests who used to be christians feel about christianity- a complete hatred for the religion itself, a grudging acknowledgement that christians are people too, and the knowledge that you can't really do shit about it in any case, or they'll write a new book of the bible about it.

added to this is the strictness of certain mormon laws- like 'don't marry a non-mormon'. I have *NO* confirmation on any of these stories, but I've heard of people being 'snatch and grabbed' from non-mormon spouses and then completely disappearing (with a law-enforcement reluctantness to search for the missing person). again, *NO* confirmation of any of these stories (I think I've heard a total of 3 of them) but it's a possibility. hell, look at the cool-aid incident in jonestown.

I know this is kind of jumbled, and I'm sorry for it, but read it anyway. you may just find your fuckin answer.