The title says it all.

Even with all what we know, what is really realitity?

With the infancy of "modern" technology, one can only conclude that he, himself exists. We have absolutely no evidence to conclude that anyone or anything in the "universe" exists like we do.

I tell my finger to type and it types. I have no evidence that anyone else has any such anima to do the same. All i see you do is move. But i also see trees move as the wind blows accross their leaves. I have no evidence to conclude that you are anymore a sentient being than a tree.

Interesting that we cant (dis)prove something so fundamental as the existence of existence!

Damn solipsism! Wouldn't 'cogito ergo sum' fit in well here?

reality is what you make of it. thinking about it won't help, get off your ass and go do something.

One idea is that you can only prove that your thoughts exist, therefore they are the only reality. Cogito ergo sum and all that.

Another theory is that reality is brought about by the relationship between objects and subjects, which brings the very objects and subjects into existance (ok, so it borrows a lot from the "if a tree falls in the woods and noones around, does it make a sound?).

But then again, that is pretty much saying that consciousness is reality, ie your thoughts. So both views are just different aspects of the same point.

I'm skitzophrenic and therefore had to actually learn what reality is.

The world and universe are different to everybody. Some people have see better, some better can hear better, some people can feel certain things that others can't, etc...

That aside, "reality" is what we are all agreeing on as reality. It's not what you see and what she sees. It's what we all see, what we all hear, what we all feel.

For example: I'm very sensitive to electronic frequencies. I can tell if a television is on just by walking past a house. But, not many other people can do that.

Cheers,

Lost

You say you're schizophrenic; I'd agree with you, but offer the theory that schizophrenic means you're able to experiences energies on a higher frequency than our own, and simply cannot differentiate well.

Just a thought of mine. Luckily for me, I can only sense what's in the physical spectrum. I suppose I'll see everything else once I die.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

You say you're schizophrenic; I'd agree with you, but offer the theory that schizophrenic means you're able to experiences energies on a higher frequency than our own, and simply cannot differentiate well.

Just a thought of mine. Luckily for me, I can only sense what's in the physical spectrum. I suppose I'll see everything else once I die.

I don't know if I'm experiences energies on a higher frequency than anybody else because I'm skitzophrenic. I always thought of that as just a natural talent. When I'm in desert areas I get electically shocked constantly, and when I'm around a lot of electrical equiptment in a enclosed area I've been known to cause flashes of light.

But, that's actually not too incredibly uncommon. Some people can just do that.

I can also put my feet behind my head, breath bubbles out of my eyes and ears when I'm underwater, and I can feel people and animals in the room without seeing or hearing them. I don't "sense" they're there. It's not a psychic thing. I can actually feel the vibrations of movements their making and their body heat. Even - sometimes - if it's just a large moth or something.

What has been evidence of skitzophrenia, I think, is my delusions, paranoia, occassional hallucinations, and constant flash backs and panic attacks. I have paranoid delusions of people coming to get me, trying to alter my thought pattern through subliminal messages, conspiracy theory shit, etc...

Cheers,

Lost

[This message has been edited by LostCause (edited 09-02-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by BrokeThePope:

The title says it all.

Even with all what we know, what is really realitity?

:everything that exists.

But reality has deeper and wider meaning.

Like,

something may be part of reality but does not exist.



Therez more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality#Fact

Welcome to the Matrix...

yeah i know wot mean,



except that 'the matrix', is



A MOVIE

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I'm skitzophrenic and therefore had to actually learn what reality is.

The world and universe are different to everybody. Some people have see better, some better can hear better, some people can feel certain things that others can't, etc...

That aside, "reality" is what we are all agreeing on as reality. It's not what you see and what she sees. It's what we all see, what we all hear, what we all feel.

For example: I'm very sensitive to electronic frequencies. I can tell if a television is on just by walking past a house. But, not many other people can do that.

Cheers,

Lost



What's it like to be schizophrenic? I've always wondered. Do you know what your other self did/is doing,can you remember stuff that you did your other self? I'd like to try being schiz for a bit, just for the experience. I don't think you're weird or anything, but insanity is interesting. Maybe that makes me crazy, but if so I'd rather be cheery and crazy, than sane and sad.

Which brings me to my opinion on this topic. Being, that if I can sense it, it's real. If it makes me happy, then it's even more real, if that's even possible.

"What's it like to be schizophrenic?"

- Confusing. Depressing.

"Do you know what your other self did/is doing?"

- Not all skitzophrenics have multiple personalities and niether do I. However, I do have "ghosts" that follow me around. They tell me to do things and talk to me. They used to more when I was younger, but now that I'm older I've learned to ignore them. The longer I've ignored them the less they talk. At first they were mad, but about now they give up. Of course, when I start thinking about them they immeadiately notice and start bugging me again. Like right now.

"can you remember stuff that you did your other self?"

- That's multiple personalities...

"I'd like to try being schiz for a bit, just for the experience."

- Uh... you can't just be a skitzo because you want to. And trust me, you wouldn't want to.

"I don't think you're weird or anything,"

- That's funny, because I kind of think you're wierd.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Choscura:

reality is what you make of it.

thats retarded

quote:

Originally posted by Choscura:

reality is what you make of it.



Originally posted by randomhugh:

thats retarded



how the fuck can you just decide what is reality. Fuck, are you that stupid.



Look it:

Right, take person 1, Jim.

Now jim's mother was a crackhead whore who didnt give a crap bout him. Jim was fostered and became a junky and killed himself at 19.

take person 2, Sean.

Sean grew up in sunny cali. and had a typical college life where he hooked up with Lucie. Sean and lucie fell in love and eafollowed successful careers until little Bob came along and Lucie became a 5 instead of an 8 and there was less moneycumin into the house and Sean was caught fucking his secretary, etc.

And finally,

Des.

Des has always been funny an got plenty laughs at school. Hez fairly normal and became a fairly sucessful comedian.

BUt,

des developed testicular cancer an had a tough battle to beat it, but did and now is a very sucessful comedian in Dublin!

Now,

how is this appliable to 'reality'?

easy:

You can take various stances on where you want to look at reality from.

You can take this approach:



quote:

Originally posted by BrokeThePope:

The title says it all.

Even with all what we know, what is really realitity?



Lou:

:everything that exists.

But reality has deeper and wider meaning.

Like,

something may be part of reality but does not exist.



Therez more:

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

or the above examples of the shit that can happen to people.



Reality has very little connection to god in my opinion, though. Faith is beyond reality and is usually blind.



[This message has been edited by Lou Reed (edited 09-07-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by randomhugh:

thats retarded

No, not really. What can we truly prove besides our own existence? Reality is how you percieve it.

I've resigned to defining reality as what we percieve with our limited senses - anything else has no role in the causal chain of our lives and therefore we should not consider it to be real to us.

Yes, this does mean reality will be different from person to person...I guess that's just how it is.

quote:Originally posted by Paradise Lost:

No, not really. What can we truly prove besides our own existence? Reality is how you percieve it.

You miss my point(i wos kinda rambling anyway)

Reality can be defined and there-for is not a part of your perception:



can you define your perception of the world?

is your perception part of that which is part of the physical? you see/feel/etc. it but you are not part of it.

your physical state WILL end!



Your perception is limited to the spectrum of that which we know.



[This message has been edited by Lou Reed (edited 09-07-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by randomhugh:

thats retarded



Actually, he could be right according to Einsteins Mouse.

Cheers,

Lost

Astrophysicly speaking, there is a part of M-thoery(I think it was M-theory anyway, not sure) that states the entire universe is just re-arrangements of nothing.

In all probablility you don't exist, neither does anything else in the universe.

I am not just pulling this out of my ass, there is solid math & science to back this up.

quote:Originally posted by NeoIceshroom:

Astrophysicly speaking, there is a part of M-thoery(I think it was M-theory anyway, not sure) that states the entire universe is just re-arrangements of nothing.

In all probablility you don't exist, neither does anything else in the universe.

I am not just pulling this out of my ass, there is solid math & science to back this up.



I am unaware of this theory, but would say that the universe is balanced by variables and the CIRCUMSTANCE of arrangements of nothing.

4 example:

even in the smallest 'part' of reality (dont ask me to define a 'part' of reality cos i'd be writing all night) there is the potenial 4 existance, in the logical reasoning that we came from nothing in the first place:



well there it is; what happenned pre-big bang?



Cheers,

Lou

Reality could be any number of things.

I go for an empirical/verificationist stance myself, meaning that if i see something and i experience it on a physical level i know it exists like wise i can say it exists later when i'm not experiencing it on a physical level

quote:Originally posted by Lou Reed:



Cheers,

Lou

Hot.

Cheers,

Lost

Reality is the objective. The only objective statement one can really be sure of is "I am." Therefore, reality is I. I know I exist because if I didn't, what else would I be? If I didn't exist, I couldn't type this. I couldn't perceive my world if I didn't exist. I can be pretty sure that this world exists when I'm asleep, but I've no way of having complete knowledge of the existence of anything besides myself.



More on what Lost said about feeling energy: I can hear TVs change channels. I can't hear the TV from outside the house, but when I'm sitting at home, watching TV, and somebody changes the channel, I hear a high-pitched whine in the time between the channels. I've never mentioned it to anybody for fear of being labeled mad. Does anybody else hear this?

I disagree, King_Cotton. Reality is not the objective. Hell, you even skipped over into the subjective with the idea that you can only know that you exist. What reality actually is is consciousness. What is consciousness? Its the interface between subject and object. Without it both the subject and the object would at the very least spiral down into the depths of the catagory of: "cant be sure it exists".

About the energy thing. Nope, I dont hear TVs (though that could have something to do with not paying attention to TV), but I hear all sorts of weird noises from computers noone else seems to pick up on. Mostly in the uber high pitch range too.

Aren't words so primitive? I believe that I understand reality, and I also believe that your reality and my reality are quite similar, if not almost exactly alike. Maybe reality is just the facts. A tree is a tree...no matter what you call it, it's still the same thing. To quote a friend of mine, "If you get shot in the face you can call it a lolipop, but you still got shot in the face."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Visionquest:

[B]Aren't words so primitive?



Yeah man!

Roll-on the 4th dimension, thats what i say!