I am an Atheist, i do not believe there is a God (in the sense of any current organised religions definition we have for the word - but that is just semantics). However, i have respect for the power of faith; i have admiration for the charity of churches and i am often in a state of awe at the strength belief gives people.

I've heard religion and beliefs compared to language - in the sense that we lean towards the way we were raised...it is simple human nature to imitate the ones that raise us.

No matter the doctrine you live your life by; the scriptures you read or the God(s) you praise - Jesus - Allah - Buddha - Newton - Are not these all different routes to solving a problem thats answer has eluded us for the length of our existence?

In the end arn't we all just searching for the truth? The truth about our selves, our purpose, our existence...instead of criticising each others route to the answer we should focus on our own road - the path we have chosen...i know i have been guilty of being a critic of the path others choose, i also doubt there is anyone on this forum who at one point has not.

What is the answer? I do not know - I do believe the answer does exist; we are just not meant to know yet.

In death the answer lies - so for now, enjoy the ignorance we have...afterall, you may not like the answer.



[This message has been edited by Daz (edited 09-06-2005).]

I've known athiests who were more kind, gracious, and compassionate than many Christians.

I spoke with a priest who once who said that some people are just naturally Christian.

I thought that was an interesting concept. But maybe that's a catholic insight. I doubt that you'd hear a protestant say such things.

Naturally Christian? heh - sounds like a term used to describe a person raised in a devoutly Christian household; I don't believe however, that our beliefs should be determined by anything other than ourselves.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

I don't believe however, that our beliefs should be determined by anything other than ourselves.

Yeah, I hate the way children are indoctrinated at birth and made to believe something they don't even understand. They wouldn't grow up naturally religious, they wouldn't just know it was there.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Naturally Christian? heh - sounds like a term used to describe a person raised in a devoutly Christian household; I don't believe however, that our beliefs should be determined by anything other than ourselves.



Well...I don't think that they are. People can tell you what they believe and you can fall in line if you choose, or choose not too. In the end you determine what you choose to believe...regardless of the originating source.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

In the end arn't we all just searching for the truth? The truth about our selves, our purpose, our existence...instead of criticising each others route to the answer we should focus on our own road - the path we have chosen...i know i have been guilty of being a critic of the path others choose, i also doubt there is anyone on this forum who at one point has not.

What good is an introverted life? Enlighten others so that they may choose.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

What is the answer? I do not know - I do believe the answer does exist; we are just not meant to know yet.

An athiest who believes "we are not meant to know". How ironic.

quote:What good is an introverted life? Enlighten others so that they may choose.

It is one thing to publish your beliefs for others to 'enlighten' themselves; an entirely different thing to bash another persons beliefs until they start to question the path they have chosen - all because their beliefs differed from yours to begin with.

Don't you see? This isn't about being right or wrong; this isn't as simple as black and white.

quote:An athiest who believes "we are not meant to know". How ironic.

It is my belief that there is no God, how that is ironic with my statement that we are not meant to know the answers to life has me puzzled...

Perhaps you were confused and thought i was saying we were not meant to know whether there is a God or not, when in fact i wasn't talking about whether Gods existence is a myth - rather that we are not meant to know the answers to questions such as how we got here, how the universe was created (if it was) and what our purpose (if there is one) is.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

It is my belief that there is no God, how that is ironic with my statement that we are not meant to know the answers to life has me puzzled...

The question you must ask yourself is: who was it that 'meant' us not to know the answers to life at this time? An athiest would say that nobody 'meant' us to do anything.

I, a relatively devout but un-orthodox christian, personally believe that people are different, and unique, and all that shit they told us in kindergarten. I believe that it doesn't really matter in the end what you believe, as long as you BELIEVE it. A lot of people don't think there is enough evidence to believe in God. Or they personally feel that another God is more real to them. I think that's fine. Do what you feel is right, and do it with conviction. Because nobody is the same, so what one person believes might not mesh with the gears of another. So, in the words of the Nike advertising division, Just do it.

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

The question you must ask yourself is: who was it that 'meant' us not to know the answers to life at this time? An athiest would say that nobody 'meant' us to do anything.



Exactly. Us not being able to find those answers, and us being predetermined to not find those answers (which is what "not meant to" implies) are two different things.

One is an opinion of the possible knowledge man can reach, while the other implies the existence of something that makes 'finding these answers' impossible.

quote:Originally posted by asterisk:

They wouldn't grow up naturally religious, they wouldn't just know it was there.

No, they wouldn't grow up naturally religious, but you have no way of knowing whether or not they would grow up naturally spiritual.

Ah that is what you are getting at...I should have guessed

quote:The question you must ask yourself is: who was it that 'meant' us not to know the answers to life at this time? An athiest would say that nobody 'meant' us to do anything.

Is it far fetched to imagine that by the word "meant" i was just personifying nature; or something other than a current definition of God?

quote:I am an Atheist, i do not believe there is a God (in the sense of any current organised religions definition we have for the word - but that is just semantics)

Key words = "in the sense of any current organised religions definition we have for the word"

quote:One is an opinion of the possible knowledge man can reach, while the other implies the existence of something that makes 'finding these answers' impossible.

That existence of something does not have to be the existence of God though does it.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Is it far fetched to imagine that by the word "meant" i was just personifying nature; or something other than a current definition of God?

Personification is where theism begins. Avoid at all costs.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

I am an Atheist, i do not believe there is a God (in the sense of any current organised religions definition we have for the word - but that is just semantics). However, i have respect for the power of faith; i have admiration for the charity of churches and i am often in a state of awe at the strength belief gives people.

I've heard religion and beliefs compared to language - in the sense that we lean towards the way we were raised...it is simple human nature to imitate the ones that raise us.

No matter the doctrine you live your life by; the scriptures you read or the God(s) you praise - Jesus - Allah - Buddha - Newton - Are not these all different routes to solving a problem thats answer has eluded us for the length of our existence?

In the end arn't we all just searching for the truth? The truth about our selves, our purpose, our existence...instead of criticising each others route to the answer we should focus on our own road - the path we have chosen...i know i have been guilty of being a critic of the path others choose, i also doubt there is anyone on this forum who at one point has not.

What is the answer? I do not know - I do believe the answer does exist; we are just not meant to know yet.

In death the answer lies - so for now, enjoy the ignorance we have...afterall, you may not like the answer.







god is a fraud. why do people believe in him when theyve never seen him? its like someone tells you your house is on fire, but you dont believe it til you see it. why believe in god then?

quote:Personification is where theism begins. Avoid at all costs.

Indeed.

quote:

god is a fraud. why do people believe in him when theyve never seen him? its like someone tells you your house is on fire, but you dont believe it til you see it. why believe in god then?

It is the path they choose - they all have there different reasons i am sure. However, isn't it a little naive to base your judgements only on your limited senses?

quote:Originally posted by Daz:



That existence of something does not have to be the existence of God though does it.

If it conciously predetermines be to not be able to find these answers then yes, yes it does. Call it god, "nature" or whatever you will.

Guess it depends on your definition of God...

Of course. But if you're implying that somehow my definition is not a mainstream one, then you're mistaken. Metaphysical thought has constantly defined an unexplained, impersonal yet supernatural entity as a god. Pantheism, Deism, Spinoza, all prove this.

So what's your definition of a god? Is something that predetermines your knowledge, and that we apparently cannot see or touch, not included in that definition?

quote:If it conciously predetermines be to not be able to find these answers then yes, yes it does.

What ever it could possibly be does not have to be conscious - or limiting our knowledge to exclude these answers consciously.

quote:Of course. But if you're implying that somehow my definition is not a mainstream one

Not at all - just that definitions differ, and that mainstream does not equate to being correct.

Perhaps we are limited not by another being but simply by our own mind - are we capable of understanding the answers, let alone finding them?

I understand exactly where you are coming from though, and i should have originally typed "not meant to yet" as "not able to yet" which would imply a wider range of possibilities than some being consciously predetermining our inability to answer such questions.

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

What ever it could possibly be does not have to be conscious - or limiting our knowledge to exclude these answers consciously.

Care to explain? It doesn't have to be conscious to consciously exclude these answers?

quote:

Not at all - just that definitions differ, and that mainstream does not equate to being correct.

Nothing is correct when we are theorizing on something that cannot be proven to even exist.

What it 'being part of the mainstream definition' means is that it is a generally accepted definition of god. If anyone is separating from this convention, it is you, not me. That was my point.



quote:

Perhaps we are limited not by another being but simply by our own mind - are we capable of understanding the answers, let alone finding them?

Then this has nothing to do with us "not being meant to find the answers".

quote:

I understand exactly where you are coming from though, and i should have originally typed "not meant to yet" as "not able to yet" which would imply a wider range of possibilities than some being consciously predetermining our inability to answer such questions.

If that's what you meant, then I would agree. My main objection, and I believe it was Sarter's also, was that "not meant to" or even "meant to" implies the existence of something supernatural allowing us, or not allowing us, to do something.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 09-08-2005).]

quote:What ever it could possibly be does not have to be conscious - or limiting our knowledge to exclude these answers consciously.

Just a badly constructed sentance...it is meant to say:

"What ever it could possibly be does not have to be conscious, or does not have to be limiting our knowledge to exclude these answers consciously."

quote:Then this has nothing to do with us "not being meant to find the answers".

Which is why "not able to" would have suited a lot better.

quote:If that's what you meant, then I would agree. My main objection, and I believe it was Sarter's also, was that "not meant to" or even "meant to" implies the existence of something supernatural allowing us, or not allowing us, to do something.

Indeed.