Do you think yhey were controlled or do you think they could leave at anytime. was it a cult, or not. were they right, etc.

please tell me your opinions

Yeah, they were a cult.

Controlled by who?

Right about what?

You could say they were a cult as they had branched off from a more mainstream Christian church, but they were not a recent branch. The Branch Davidians existed for more than half a century if I am not mistaken.

I don't know if they were a cult however according to the modern media type definition.

I dont know for sure but I would say that they were a proper religion .

The only thing that matters is that they had a right to practice their faith.

quote:Originally posted by TheLaUghiNgHeretic:

Yeah, they were a cult.

Controlled by who?

Right about what?

un, they weren't under David Koresh's control. the survivors said they could leave at anytime

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

The only thing that matters is that they had a right to practice their faith.

see what happened to them

I think we all saw what happened, and I think most people were outraged by what happened.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I think we all saw what happened, and I think most people were outraged by what happened.

right

It seems like, after the fact, it had to be claimed that the children at the compound were endangered in some way, and perhaps even that they were being abused. This, of course, would justify the mass murder.

Interesting thread. SWF, why do you answer your own question. David Koresh started his own cult, and moved to a huge compound in waco. He had everyone believing he was jesus's reincarnation, and had powers(which doesn't prove anything). He was scrogging multiple devotees. The US gvmnt claimed the kids were in less than optimal conditions, and went to serve a summons on koresh. Koresh declared the apocalypse had come, and locked the compound up. There never was any proof of koreshs maldoing/ danger to anyone. The ATF was just being assholes. At one point they used helicopter gunships.

Anyhoo, eventually a fire broke out, probably set by cultees. Koresh was grilled. Crispy hot nuts.

What's this problem everyone has with "cult". Its like cult has becomme a dirty word. Polytheists use it all the time ie. Cult of Isis/ Cult of Dionysus

I believe the Kentucky Fried Davidians believed their loon was the messiah, and died willingly.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

The only thing that matters is that they had a right to practice their faith.

The problem with many 'cults', is they use psychological and other tactics to try and make sure you don't leave. I'm sure Waco was an extreme example. Also most of these people who would willingly give alot of their life and up move to a compound are very vulnerable and impressionable. Considering how groups like this work, a considerable number of the members most likely don't have much of a choice once they've been there for a while. Especially kids. The point is, with cults like this, it's not a question of freedom of worship, because the people are being concsiously exploited.

Case studies show how such groups work time and again, I'm sure any psychologist, especially criminal, would agree.



[This message has been edited by great_sage=heaven (edited 09-28-2005).]

The thing is David Koresh went jogging every day before the Waco event. They could of grabbed him then. But then you got people like Janet Reno who was trying show how well she could use her power but it back fired on her.

^^^ Exactly correct.

I don't believe David Koresh was an evil, manipulative egomaniac who was really a threat to anyone at all; he actually believed what he was doing was proper (after the wreakage people discovered he was working on his final interpretation of the book of Revelations). He went jogging everyday, and anyone who wanted to leave his Waco Ranch was allowed to (and many did)! If Clinton's administration was so concerned with people's safety, why didn't they confront Koresh in private because they believed he may have had a single hand grenade; instead of burning the place down?

[This message has been edited by Beholder (edited 09-30-2005).]

Well I'm not the only one in this world that thinks about Waco this way.

quote:Originally posted by J-15:

The thing is David Koresh went jogging every day before the Waco event. They could of grabbed him then. But then you got people like Janet Reno who was trying show how well she could use her power but it back fired on her.

Bullshit. They never had the right to "grab him" he never did anything illegal.

I hate our pussy "law and order" state. Give me a fascist regime anyday. Headshot at 500yards, end of story.

quote:Originally posted by Issue313:

I hate our pussy "law and order" state. Give me a fascist regime anyday. Headshot at 500yards, end of story.

get me a rebellion. then.

anyway, they weren't "under his control" he could leave at any time, of course Janet Reno doesn;t say that. there were no proof of abuses.

quote:Originally posted by Star Wars Fan:

get me a rebellion. then.

anyway, they weren't "under his control" he could leave at any time, of course Janet Reno doesn;t say that. there were no proof of abuses.



No there wern't, was there.

I think the Waco story is a classic of government trying to bully ordinary citizens. We can see the respect the rights of the common person are given by these maggots by the fact that they would rather let everyone die than leave them in peace. I hate all governments.

quote:Originally posted by Issue313:

Interesting thread. SWF, why do you answer your own question. David Koresh started his own cult, and moved to a huge compound in waco. He had everyone believing he was jesus's reincarnation, and had powers(which doesn't prove anything). He was scrogging multiple devotees. The US gvmnt claimed the kids were in less than optimal conditions, and went to serve a summons on koresh. Koresh declared the apocalypse had come, and locked the compound up. There never was any proof of koreshs maldoing/ danger to anyone. The ATF was just being assholes. At one point they used helicopter gunships.



Koresh asked for a week or two, I'm not sure, to finish his book, and then he would surrender. The FBI took him out first.

quote:

Anyhoo, eventually a fire broke out, probably set by cultees. Koresh was grilled. Crispy hot nuts.





WRONG! A Bradley fighting vehicle crashed through a wall near the place where the kids were being kept. Because the cops had cut the power the Davidians were using kerosene lanterns, and because there were police snipers shooting at them, they had put up bales of hay in the windows. The Bradley knocked over lanterns starting a fire upwind of the compound, there was a lot of wind, which fanned the fire and set the whole place ablaze. So, that would be.... a fire caused by the FBI.

quote:Originally posted by great_sage=heaven:

The problem with many 'cults', is they use psychological and other tactics to try and make sure you don't leave.

Sounds just like Christianity or any other religion.

To quote the late great Bill Hicks:

"If that's the case, why don't we see Bradley tanks knocking over Catholic churches?...if child safety was the real concern"

R.I.P. Bill.

I hate to be rude, but seriously, alot of 'religions' are 'cults'. Half of the followers don't even know it. It happens when you take pieces of the bible, and not the whole thing. By taking this and that scripture and forming your own opinion on it. In fact, most 'christians' don't even know their bible well enough to know if what they're hearing in Sunday services, or Saturday services, are right or not.

There are religions that believe that Jesus died for theirs sins, and rose again, but totally disreguard the revelation behind the WHOLE BODY rising from the dead. Religions that say Jesus laid hands on the sick, and is still the same Yesterday, today, and forever, but say he isn't still healing people. Religions that Profess Christ as the mediator, yet still ask a priest to be the mediator for man and God. Religions that say it's not an abomination to be lay down with a man the same you would with a woman. Religions that say it's evil to speak in tongues. Religions that say God is their all in all, but that God isn't good enough to provide for them, when he is YHWY-Yireh, God the provider. Religions that mock God, unknowningly. "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Even religions that say only 144,000 people are going to heaven, when that isn't true at all. Earlier in revelations it says 12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel... I don't know why people can't multiply.

It's important to read the word of God, and make sure what you're being taught is what lines up with God's word. If it doesn't line up with God's word, it isn't of God.

Studies show that most young christians are easy to persuade to believe or follow some other religions. Why? Because people can show you two or three verses out of the bible, give you mans interpretation, and deceive many.

Example:

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Some religious people will tell you that means, you won't cuss anymore.

My Pastor was telling us about a teen with Downsyndrome that had been with a group of teens which had a revival. They were giving testimonies in the church, and the Pastor said, "What did God do for you." The boy said, "He answered my question." The Pastor said, "What was your question." He said, "I asked God if I could have sex with my girlfriend." Pastor said, "What did he say." The boy said, before a whole congregation, "He said, GO FOR IT BOY!"

The whole congregation Gasped. Then, the pastor sat him down and Showed him WHY God didn't say that.

If it doesn't line up with God's word COMPLETELY, God didn't say it.

[This message has been edited by HellzShellz (edited 10-04-2005).]

God said not to fuck? Bullshit!