masterbation?

I mean, a mans seed is precious... etc.

probably just depends on who you ask

Non-denominational Christianity - depends. Some see the story of Onan as a warning against masturbation, others as against birth control, others as simply against disobeying God, or any combination of the three. Depends, in general, on the amount of fanaticism involved. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Catholicism - Not sure. I think they say that it's a no-no.

I don't know about any other religions.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-09-2005).]

Do it long and do it often. The only reasons the major religions think sex is bad is because it feels nice, and the clergy suck at it...not in a good way.

On a fun side note, I tried to stop completely...sort of an incentive to lose my virginity. Anyway, I made it a week before crying myself to sleep one night and woke up unconciousely wacking it in the morning. I have very little control over my hands. I'd tie myself up, but then I'd probably break my neck.

It's as bad as Living a fufilling happy life

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Non-denominational Christianity - depends. Some see the story of Onan as a warning against masturbation, others as against birth control, others as simply against disobeying God, or any combination of the three. Depends, in general, on the amount of fanaticism involved. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Catholicism - Not sure. I think they say that it's a no-no.

I don't know about any other religions.





i wish you would actually read your bible. onan has nothing to do with masturbation, the unallowed spilling of seed or any of the other things you list.



[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 09-10-2005).]

i wack off all the time http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I think its something to do with over indulging and not focussing your thoughts on God...

There's not much to do besides masturbate, when you're out of heroin and people for livers to remove.

Hey snoop,

wots up wit http://www.synclinalllun.net/



derz not much goin on!

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:



i wish you would actually read your bible. onan has nothing to do with masturbation, the unallowed spilling of seed or any of the other things you list.



You're an idiot.



http://tinyurl.com/9vswc

quote:

In the biblical text, Judah, the son of Jacob (called Israel) has three sons, the two of importance to this story being Er and Onan:

Judah got a wife for Er, his first-born; her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's first born, was displeasing to the Lord and the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Join with your brother's wife and do your duty by her as a brother-in-law, and provide offspring for your brother." But Onan, knowing that the seed would not count as his, let it go to waste whenever he joined with his brother's wife, so as not to provide offspring for his brother. What he did was displeasing to the Lord, and He took his life also.

[...]

Back to the story. Having no legal means of avoiding his brotherly duty, Onan flatly refuses to do it. He doesn't object to sex with his brother's wife; he just doesn't want to get her with child. We don't know why except that the child "would not count as his." Perhaps he lacked a sense of responsibility to the dead. Perhaps he realized that, with Er dead, he would get half his father's estate, but if Er had an heir, he would only get one-third. So he spilled his seed on the ground. The question is: what exactly does this mean? Religious leaders have advanced different interpretations over the centuries, mostly to justify societal mores.

When religious authorities try to legislate morality, however, the simple meaning of the text is rarely satisfactory. By the rabbinic period (around 100 BC to 300 AD), levirate marriage was no longer widely practiced. Rabbis and early Christian fathers sought other explanations for Onan's sin, focusing more on the sexual act itself, the spilling of the seed. Jews and Christians adopted sharply different interpretations.

The rabbis interpreted Onan's transgression as birth control through coitus interruptus. (In a wonderful euphemism, the Jewish commentator Rashi calls this "threshing within, winnowing without.") They decided what Onan had done was wasteful but not a severe sin; the punishment should be left to God. More generally, the rabbis recognized that intercourse did not always result in pregnancy, and that there could be a purpose to intercourse beyond simple reproduction, namely pleasure.

The Christian church ultimately took a different stance. After four centuries of competition with groups now considered heretical, the Christian church determined that man's sexual duty was to procreate and replenish the earth, period. Sex for pleasure was weakness, if not outright sinful.

While the Onan story was a factor, the driving force behind Christianity's evolving attitude toward sex was the New Testament, coupled with the pessimistic certainty that the end of the world was imminent. In the 5th century, St Augustine wrote that while sex is essential to procreation and thus good, sin has corrupted human passion, so copulation for pleasure alone is immoral.

The female role in reproduction was poorly understood--people thought men did the important part, namely planting the seed, and the woman was just the flower pot. Hence, spilling seed (loss of semen) was a grievous sin. This attitude emerged after Cummean, an Irish abbott of the 7th century, set forth penances for various sexual sins. Theodore of Tarsus, also in the 7th century, distinguished onanism from masturbation--he felt onanism was a form of contraception, not just self-pleasuring.

Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) wrote extensively about sexual subjects; his thinking dominated Christian teaching for centuries. First, he taught that any sexual activity that did not lead to procreation was deviant, even within marriage. Sex without procreation was lust, directed solely at venereal pleasure. Other sexual sins included adultery, rape, and incest.

Second, he set up a category of four "sins against nature" or "unnatural vices." These are considered more sinful than illicit sex, because they violate the laws of nature as well as the laws of society and the Church. In order from least to worst sinful:

* Ejaculation without coitus, i.e., masturbation

* Deviation from the "natural position" (face to face contact, female on her back)

* Copulation with an "undue sex" (i.e., homosexuality)

* Copulation with non-human creatures, i.e., bestiality.

The term "sodomy" was used interchangeably with "sins against nature." All such sins were lumped under the category of "onanism." Peter Cantor, in the 12th century, had equated sodomy with the sin of Onan because a sodomite "spilled his seed upon the earth." Sodomy was defined as sexual acts between persons of the same sex, and also "semination in a vessel not ordained for it."



Also, you'll notice that I never claimed that it actually had anything to do with masturbation etc., only that people viewed it as such. I've had Christian friends tell me that they don't masturbate "because of the story of Onan."

That site not enough for you? Read your actual Bible - it plainly mentions the spilling of seed. Or here, look at this Christian site warning against masturbation: http://tinyurl.com/d4fqc

quote:ANY sexual activity which attempts to bypass reproduction is a sin. God joined the creation of life together with the pleasures of sexual intercourse. Birth control and abortion attempt to defeat the creation of life that is entwined by Nature's God with the reproductive act. So does masturbation.

In addition, masturbation is a homosexual act: sex with a person of the same sex, namely yourself.

The Bible refers to the deed as the sin of Onan. Onan was the son of Judah and Shuah. Genesis 38:4. The Lord slew Onan's brother for wickedness. Judah told Onan to marry his brother's wife "and raise up seed to thy brother." Genesis 38:8. But Onan did not want to have children by his brother’s wife.

"And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother."

Genesis 38:9. This misdeed displeased the Lord; "wherefore he slew him also." Genesis 38:9-10.

Hell, even Wikipedia (http://tinyurl.com/dxreg) refutes you.

And yet another (http://tinyurl.com/9ndl4) site exploring the connection.

Finally, from Jackinworld (http://tinyurl.com/9oppj):

quote:People who commented about the Bible believe it is silent on masturbation, even though those who preach against the practice have long interpreted verses to support their claims. The best known of these is the story of Onan, who "spilled his seed" to avoid impregnating his dead brother's wife and so God had him killed. Religious authorities who oppose masturbation have interpreted "spilling his seed" to mean that Onan masturbated. But many who have studied the story academically think it makes more sense that "spilling his seed" refers to withdrawing from intercourse before ejaculating (coitus interruptus) rather than masturbating. God punished Onan for disobeying His law, not for masturbating.

In conclusion, you appear a mongoloid cretin who actually knows nothing about what he's typing about.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-10-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Lynne le Fay:

Do it long and do it often. The only reasons the major religions think sex is bad is because it feels nice, and the clergy suck at it...not in a good way.

On a fun side note, I tried to stop completely...sort of an incentive to lose my virginity. Anyway, I made it a week before crying myself to sleep one night and woke up unconciousely wacking it in the morning. I have very little control over my hands. I'd tie myself up, but then I'd probably break my neck.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

In conclusion, you appear a mongoloid cretin who actually knows nothing about what he's typing about.



come back kid when you're old enough to discuss and defend your position without resorting to insults.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

In conclusion, you appear a mongoloid cretin who actually knows nothing about what he's typing about.



It appears to me that Wilkipedia agrees with jackketch:

"But the main purpose of these verses was probably to denote the punishment for violating the rules of levirate marriage, which was a divine law, rather than practicing either coitus interruptus or masturbation, which are not known to be condemned by the Holy Scriptures. The purpose of this form of marriage was to prevent a childless widow from becoming pauperized, due to not having a husband or son to support her and not being able to own property herself; thus Onan's refusal was considered very cruel treatment of his sister-in-law."

Misuse of scripture was quite common to justify opinions...and it still is...

This thread made me sin my pants...

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

come back kid when you're old enough to discuss and defend your position without resorting to insults.

1.) I think you're misinterpreting my position. I am not Christian, nor do I think the story of Onan is actually a warning against masturbation or birth control.

2.) You're right. I've gradually adopted the "Totse style" of debating, and for that I apologize.

quote:It appears to me that Wilkipedia agrees with jackketch:

"But the main purpose of these verses was probably to denote the punishment for violating the rules of levirate marriage, which was a divine law, rather than practicing either coitus interruptus or masturbation, which are not known to be condemned by the Holy Scriptures. The purpose of this form of marriage was to prevent a childless widow from becoming pauperized, due to not having a husband or son to support her and not being able to own property herself; thus Onan's refusal was considered very cruel treatment of his sister-in-law."

Misuse of scripture was quite common to justify opinions...and it still is...

Again, I never said that that's what the story actually meant. Read my post; I'm merely pointing out that a.) it does have something to do with the spilling of seed and so forth and b.) people usually take it as a warning against masturbation or whatever.

quote:Non-denominational Christianity - depends. Some see the story of Onan as a warning against masturbation, others as against birth control, others as simply against disobeying God, or any combination of the three. Depends, in general, on the amount of fanaticism involved.

quote:Also, you'll notice that I never claimed that it actually had anything to do with masturbation etc., only that people viewed it as such. I've had Christian friends tell me that they don't masturbate "because of the story of Onan."

Maybe you need to reread his posts...along with your own...

His post:

quote:i wish you would actually read your bible. onan has nothing to do with masturbation, the unallowed spilling of seed or any of the other things you list.

I never said it actually did, merely that people said it did - and it does have something to do with the spilling of seed and disobeying God.

Maybe you do? http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif) What's your point?

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-11-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:



1.) I think you're misinterpreting my position. I am not Christian, nor do I think the story of Onan is actually a warning against masturbation or birth control.



in which case i apologise for assuming you did.

Mostly my fault. I again apologize for the insults, as well. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Sin is sin. Whether it be pissing in public or murder.

I think its a sin because you could be doing something more constructive with your time... LIKE THINKING ABOUT WHAT JESUS WOULD DO!!!!! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

al fresco urination is a sin??!