Choscura
2005-09-13, 09:46
simply put, the key to human success has been organization and ingenuity. these two things require a sort of 'social glue'- something that a community can have in common so that they actually give a shit about one another. what if this is cased by religion? think of your 'church friends' (especially for muslims, christians don't seem to bond so much, at least not on such a large scale): would you know or even give a shit about them if you didn't go to church, in any way other than "gee, I hate it when bad things happen to people"?
this being said- and whether you confirm or deny it, I can claim to have seen it, because I was (and to a degree still am) a part of this cycle (the church bonding thing). the majority of the people at the church- yes, the MAJORITY- can't think for themselves past a few steps. but they make up for it by working and praying together- 'prayer requests' are a good way to expose your problems to be fixed by a group (for example "I need my deck painted, but I have no paint, no money, no time, and no experience painting, please god help me find a painter"). also to a degree, it serves as stress relief: "please Mr. Invisible Man help my son survive cancer" is somehow more comforting to say to yourself than nothing at all. it does two things: it forces you to acknowledge the problem, and it forces you to deal with it. in a way, it can be argued that this is a source of self-responsibility*.
so- to sum this up for the people who don't like to read long shit- I've basically given a few details about group compensation for individual problems, because of religion (spin the dial, pick your faith). basically it outlines how religion is an evolutionary response- on a higher social level- to stupidity on a lower level.
this said, an evolutionary response is not the same as a cure. humanity can still progress under the constraints of religion, however, it is severely hampered: what is a threat to one generation may not necessarily be a threat to the next generation, so rules fixed for so long are arguably irrelevent (the no gay sex, for example, was written during a time when the israelis were living next to a city where homosexuality was so proliferous that more men were gay than straight- they were losing the population, and getting one hell of a series of dick-bugs besides that). I can understand a thousand, two thousand years ago, pork would have been bad because of all the parasites pigs attract: but now, given that we can cook pork and know that it's done and know there was nothing bad to begin with in it, I don't think we should be going to hell on the 'unclean animal' thing. is this the kind of waiting period you want to have over the next developement in electronics, or fuel economy, or medicine? we'd all be dead from AIDS by the time god allowed us to cure it that way! and THEN we'd have to argue about whether or not it's a sin to take the medicine, because god gave us AIDs in the first place, so he must want us to have it! it doesn't even have to be aids, just pick your epidemic or catastrophe and insert it here- we'll get around to responding to it in, god'll get right on that in 4,000 years.
*the reason I say "arguably" is because it's a double edged sword: talking to a 'god' about your problems is all well and good until you start hearing answers that nobody else can hear and that nobody else can understand. as this is quite possibly the most highly religious experience you can have, if you are religious you're likely to ignore this and do what the voice<s> tell you to do: some examples of what people have done when they listen to the voices (no specific religions): (1)lets go rape every muslim woman in jerusalem because THATS the HOLY CITY! (2) gee, lets kill all of these people because they're bad! (3) but I swear god told me to burn her! (4) god says your lying, do I have to use the hot coals on your nipples again? and (5) drink the cool-aid!
all of these examples have happened. all were started by religious people as an act of faith: because an invisible man told them to do it. therein lies the problem with religion: we are accountable to invisible men, but some of us take orders from invisible men who are accountable to nobody and have only the good of the coroners in mind.
this being said- and whether you confirm or deny it, I can claim to have seen it, because I was (and to a degree still am) a part of this cycle (the church bonding thing). the majority of the people at the church- yes, the MAJORITY- can't think for themselves past a few steps. but they make up for it by working and praying together- 'prayer requests' are a good way to expose your problems to be fixed by a group (for example "I need my deck painted, but I have no paint, no money, no time, and no experience painting, please god help me find a painter"). also to a degree, it serves as stress relief: "please Mr. Invisible Man help my son survive cancer" is somehow more comforting to say to yourself than nothing at all. it does two things: it forces you to acknowledge the problem, and it forces you to deal with it. in a way, it can be argued that this is a source of self-responsibility*.
so- to sum this up for the people who don't like to read long shit- I've basically given a few details about group compensation for individual problems, because of religion (spin the dial, pick your faith). basically it outlines how religion is an evolutionary response- on a higher social level- to stupidity on a lower level.
this said, an evolutionary response is not the same as a cure. humanity can still progress under the constraints of religion, however, it is severely hampered: what is a threat to one generation may not necessarily be a threat to the next generation, so rules fixed for so long are arguably irrelevent (the no gay sex, for example, was written during a time when the israelis were living next to a city where homosexuality was so proliferous that more men were gay than straight- they were losing the population, and getting one hell of a series of dick-bugs besides that). I can understand a thousand, two thousand years ago, pork would have been bad because of all the parasites pigs attract: but now, given that we can cook pork and know that it's done and know there was nothing bad to begin with in it, I don't think we should be going to hell on the 'unclean animal' thing. is this the kind of waiting period you want to have over the next developement in electronics, or fuel economy, or medicine? we'd all be dead from AIDS by the time god allowed us to cure it that way! and THEN we'd have to argue about whether or not it's a sin to take the medicine, because god gave us AIDs in the first place, so he must want us to have it! it doesn't even have to be aids, just pick your epidemic or catastrophe and insert it here- we'll get around to responding to it in, god'll get right on that in 4,000 years.
*the reason I say "arguably" is because it's a double edged sword: talking to a 'god' about your problems is all well and good until you start hearing answers that nobody else can hear and that nobody else can understand. as this is quite possibly the most highly religious experience you can have, if you are religious you're likely to ignore this and do what the voice<s> tell you to do: some examples of what people have done when they listen to the voices (no specific religions): (1)lets go rape every muslim woman in jerusalem because THATS the HOLY CITY! (2) gee, lets kill all of these people because they're bad! (3) but I swear god told me to burn her! (4) god says your lying, do I have to use the hot coals on your nipples again? and (5) drink the cool-aid!
all of these examples have happened. all were started by religious people as an act of faith: because an invisible man told them to do it. therein lies the problem with religion: we are accountable to invisible men, but some of us take orders from invisible men who are accountable to nobody and have only the good of the coroners in mind.