i pose this question to christians; do you think it fair that a little kid that is killed at 6 months gets to go to heaven? sure he/she died "pure and innocent", but the little bastard could have been the next hitler when he grew up. he/she doesnt lack the potential, only the opportunity.

the rest of you christians have to whatch every step of our lives to ensure our safe passage. are you (we?) not "all equal in the eyes of the lord"?

and please, no more dogma. i want to know what YOU think.

thx http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Each of us are the next Hitler or the next Pope.

It is fair because if he did do anything wrong, he lacks the mental capacity to comprehend the concept of right and wrong. God cannot punish him because he has not sinned.

Sin is often thought of doing this or that, but it is deeper than that: it is the idea that you can do whatever you want and God can deal with it... so to speak. Sin is rebellion in its most basic form.

The child doesnt understand the concept of doing right, so he cant disobey parents or government, and thereby cannot commit a tresspass against a God-ordained authority figure.

quote:Originally posted by darth_vector:

and please, no more dogma. i want to know what YOU think.

The problem with many devout Christians is that what they think is whatever the dogma says.

But there is another question to put to them, for shits ang giggles. The principles of Christianity state that it is only through believing in Jesus that a person can get into heaven, because we are all born with original sin, and without salvation none of us can enter heaven.

This means first of all that any baby who dies must go to hell, now considering that babies can't even willingly choose to commit suicide, any baby who dies must go to hell through no fault of their own. But on a bigger scale, it means that every single human born before Christ must go to hell as well. The contradictions in this are mind boggling, that God would allow so many of the people he supposedly created to go to hell without lifting a finger, or them having any idea about the conditions for entry to heaven. For one thing, it surely means that even Adam and Eve are in hell, something I find hysterical.



EDIT: I'd be interested in a Christian explaining to me the logical contradictions implied by this (but every single time I bring up the logical contradictions in Christianity, Christians simply ignore what I've said or change the subject). Does God send all these babies to hell? Because since he created the universe and designed it's rules, that means God is a baby torturer, which contradicts the notion of him being a loving God. Well maybe babies (as well as the people born before Christ) are allowed into heaven because they didn't know about how things work. In that case people raised as devout Muslims for example, who were never exposed to Christianity through no fault of their own and remained ignorant of it, would be allowed into heaven. But that contradicts with the ten commandments which say you must believe in the Christian god. etc, etc, etc



[This message has been edited by imperfectcircle (edited 09-23-2005).]

He had the potential sure but we all do. Our enviroment and circumstances will likely dictate whether we go on to become the next dictator/mass murderer

Actually, if you're talking fairness...I don't think it's fair that the child didn't get to live a full life; with all the pleasure, the pain, the joy, and the sorrow that comes along with it.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Each of us are the next Hitler or the next Pope.

Or both at the same time.

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

...because we are all born with original sin, and without salvation none of us can enter heaven.

There's no such thing as 'original sin'...but maybe some people's sin's are a bit more original than others... http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

We are born with the potential for sin, but not with sin itself.



[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 09-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by outcast:

There's no such thing as 'original sin'...but maybe some people's sin's are a bit more original than others...

Maybe I should have been more precise, I definitely wasn't saying that as if it's my own opinion. According to Christianity though, we are all born with original sin. The doctrine is that ever since the Fall of Man when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden for eating the forbidden fruit, every human being is sinful when they are born because of Adam and Eve's actions. Not only are we sinful, but we are incapable of curing ourselves, we can only find salvation through Jesus Christ.

If that sounds cultlike, don't forget that Christianity is nothing more than a really, really, really successful cult.

I understood that it's not your opinion...

I just don't believe in the doctrine of original sin...

We might all be born under sin...in it's potential...but not with sin...

The Adam and Eve story [to me] is one of separation of man and God...in learning what God is not...so that...maybe, just maybe...we can see what God is.

It's rather like being far-sighted...in a way, I think. If we are too close, then it's hard to see sometimes.

So...with distance we have the potential to see what is farther way from us...with the possiblility of understanding it as we move closer...or completely losing sight of it as we move even further away.



[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 09-23-2005).]

no.

quote:It is fair because if he did do anything wrong, he lacks the mental capacity to comprehend the concept of right and wrong. God cannot punish him because he has not sinned.

I'm not arguing this at all. Of course a child doesnt understand what it means to do wrong. What I mean is that the child isn't given the opportunity to do wrong.

When Christians ask why life is so tough, they are told that God is testing them. It seems like we are not all tested fairly though, some pass the test before reaching the age at which they can be tested.

quote:This means first of all that any baby who dies must go to hell, now considering that babies can't even willingly choose to commit suicide, any baby who dies must go to hell through no fault of their own. But on a bigger scale, it means that every single human born before Christ must go to hell as well. The contradictions in this are mind boggling, that God would allow so many of the people he supposedly created to go to hell without lifting a finger, or them having any idea about the conditions for entry to heaven. For one thing, it surely means that even Adam and Eve are in hell, something I find hysterical.

lol, this is amusing. I must bring it up with the mormons that keep harassing me http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by darth_vector:

and please, no more dogma.

Christianity is dogma.

We are all part of Gods plan. Do you imagine the Lord of Israel to be real, but powerless? With one wave of His hand he could destroy all the works of man. So whatever.

quote:Christianity is dogma.

i'm asking you what you think, not what your told. you do think sometimes, dont you?

quote:Originally posted by darth_vector:

i'm asking you what you think, not what your told. you do think sometimes, dont you?

I think the best thing to do would be to pray to God for guidance on the issue.

Pwned.

quote:Originally posted by darth_vector:

i pose this question to christians; do you think it fair that a little kid that is killed at 6 months gets to go to heaven? sure he/she died "pure and innocent", but the little bastard could have been the next hitler when he grew up. he/she doesnt lack the potential, only the opportunity.

the rest of you christians have to whatch every step of our lives to ensure our safe passage. are you (we?) not "all equal in the eyes of the lord"?

and please, no more dogma. i want to know what YOU think.

thx http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Yes.

Your suggesting we should be held culpable for crimes we can't even comprehend let alone commit (at the age of 6 months).

By that logic you should be on death row.

Just in case.

Where does he suggest that the hypothetical baby should go to hell? He's merely saying that it has an unfair advantage.