http://bible-truths.com/

Damn fine link!

Heresiarch!

Nice link, but the bible can be interpreted so many different ways...its a flexible book, and 3/4 of Christianity is unscriptural anyway.

3/4 unscriptural?

[This message has been edited by quasicurus (edited 09-25-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

3/4 unscriptural?



What I mean by this is that most Christians just make stuff up as they go along eg. God wants us to do this or that, catholics were even discouraged from reading the bible once. Not eating meat on friday, Churching on Sunday rather than the Sabbath(saturday), all that sort of shit.

Too often Christians look to the bible to Justify their agenda, rather than doing what tho bible says(it says a lot of weird things).

[This message has been edited by Issue313 (edited 09-26-2005).]

The Myth of Free Will - Exposed was an interesting section.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

3/4 unscriptural?



I think he meant "unscriptured", as in they dont know the scriptures, which is true.

quote:"[1] preach with sound doctrine and [2] refute those who contradict it"

Quoted from the NRSV: If their thesis is flawed, i cant put to much faith in what they have to say.

I just perused a few of the links and i must say that alot of his so-called truths leave alot to be desired of by way of connotation and proper translation. Not to mention he likes to use his own thinking more than what the Bible (flawed translation or not) says.

[This message has been edited by ArgonPlasma2000 (edited 09-26-2005).]

Ray Smith actually says that (based on his Bible understanding) that there is no free-will, everything happened according to God's will. Furthermore, he states that God is responsible, but not to blame for the every bad thing in this world. God created Satan for the intention of causing us to suffer.

As God is perfect, He has already planned this ahead. He had placed the serpent and the Tree Of Knowledge in the Garden Of Eden, with the intention of causing Adam and Eve to sin. As God is perfect, God cannot be blamed for this, as to blame someone is to accuse them of their wrongdoings. In causing suffering, God has not done anything wrong.

Furthermore, he also preaches that everyone will be saved, even those people who lived in Africa and have never heard of God.

[This message has been edited by quasicurus (edited 09-26-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Ray Smith actually says that (based on his Bible understanding) that there is no free-will, everything happened according to God's will. Furthermore, he states that God is responsible, but not to blame for the every bad thing in this world. God created Satan for the intention of causing us to suffer.

As God is perfect, He has already planned this ahead. He had placed the serpent and the Tree Of Knowledge in the Garden Of Eden, with the intention of causing Adam and Eve to sin. As God is perfect, God cannot be blamed for this, as to blame someone is to accuse them of their wrongdoings. In causing suffering, God has not done anything wrong.

Furthermore, he also preaches that everyone will be saved, even those people who lived in Africa and have never heard of God.



Good summary, thanks.

So why does he think Jesus died, or rather, what did He die for?

Jesus died for our sins, to save us.

It's all parts of God's plan.

There is no hell and no heaven, according to Ray Smith. When people die they just sleep eternally, until God come and resurrects them from their graves. We cannot enter heaven as we are of body and soul. Only spirits can enter heaven. That means angels, demons and God.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Jesus died for our sins, to save us.

It's all parts of God's plan.

There is no hell and no heaven, according to Ray Smith. When people die they just sleep eternally, until God come and resurrects them from their graves. We cannot enter heaven as we are of body and soul. Only spirits can enter heaven. That means angels, demons and God.

The ressurection part that is catholic dogma. That is what they mean when they say ressurection of the dead on Judgement day. Catholics oppose cremation for this reason.

I thought the existence of a soul was pretty well established in Christianity. God, I hate people.

[This message has been edited by Issue313 (edited 09-26-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Jesus died for our sins, to save us.

It's all parts of God's plan.

There is no hell and no heaven, according to Ray Smith. When people die they just sleep eternally, until God come and resurrects them from their graves. We cannot enter heaven as we are of body and soul. Only spirits can enter heaven. That means angels, demons and God.

....so basically Jesus died to save us from our sins to save us... from what?

So basically, if i infer a few things, Jesus died for no reason because we all get a free ride to heaven anyway?

My question to you is very simple. (You need not go into deep detail so as not to confuse me.)

I want to know if you believe that no matter how one lives their life; no matter how "good" or "evil" they are as a human being on this planet earth, all end up with the same fate?

You got me wondering about all the people who don't even know of God so they cannot make a choice to believe or not believe. My question, however, speaks of those who are aware of "God", and who choose to live a life apart from what can be called moral and good. Now, by moral and good I basically mean following the laws of the land, and reaching out to people in need.

Thanks,

Diane

[Ray Replies]

Dear Diane:

A full answer to your question requires many pages to answer, however, I will give you the abbreviated answer.

Will all mankind eventually be saved? YES! Can they live like hell all of their lives and still go to heaven when they die? NO! There is a process. God has a plan and He is working His plan to perfection.

God does not even call all or most people to salvation in this lifetime. Even some of those who are called turn from God. And billions have never heard of Jesus Christ in the first place.

The answer is that God nowhere says that one must be saved in this life only or he can never be saved. That is a nasty little piece of heresy that is taught by the theologians of Christendom. It is a way to keep people in fear so that they keep "praying and paying."

If you read all of my paper "EXPOSING THOSE WHO CONTRADICT" you will come to the section where God prophesies the resurrection of all the dead Israelites in the book of Ezekiel. Most of Israel never obeyed or loved God. God said that they were WORST than the heathen and pagans in their religious practices. They committed every foul and evil dead and blasphemed the name of God. And yet, God says that He will resurrected them all back to life and put His spirit in them, and they SHALL KNOW Who God is. They will become God's people and God will become their God.

The same is true for ALL UNSAVED AND UNBELIEVING humanity. All humanity will be judged, chastised, and purged of their evil heart and carnal wicked mind. EVERYONE! Our Apostle Paul teaches us that we can judge ourselves NOW, and then we won't have to be judged LATER. But sooner or later, ALL WILL BE JUDGED AND PURIFIED. You can believe it. You can take it to the bank! No one will escape the judgments and chastisements of God Almighty. Jesus Christ has already paid the PENALTY for our sins, but our deceitful and wicked heart that is at the very seat of all sin, must yet be dealt with. Too bad these simple Bible Truths are not taught in the churches.

I would encourage you to read all the papers on my web site and look up ALL THE SCRIPTURES. God will guide your understanding and you will become wise in things you never thought possible.

God be with you.

Sincerely,

Ray

So you are saying there is no benefit to living a good life, living by the word of God? If that is the case, I might as well go back to living the way I used to and have as much fun as I want and sleep with as many women as I can and whatever else I can do to make my life as fulfilling as possible. There is no reward for living by the scriptures, there is no such thing as sins against God.

[Ray Replies]

Dear Nameless:

You are spiritually BLIND!

You equate NOT living according to God's Word, Whoring around with as many women as possible, having carnal fun, and being a general overall ass, will "Make my life as FULFILLING AS POSSIBLE." Listen to yourself!

You are admitting that you HATE GOD'S WAY OF LIFE.

To you it "isn't fun" and "isn't fulfilling." To you a life of sin is a "FULFILLING LIFE." You need a little spiritual adjustment between your ears.

I stated that there is coming "JUDGMENT" upon all who have not known or obeyed God. There is "chastisement" in that judgment. THEY WILL have a change of heart, (as you must as well) before they will be members of God's Family. God will PURGE THEM of their evil and wicked ways--it is not a pretty picture.

Hitler will not just waltz into the Family of God as if he has not nothing to be corrected about. People like Hitler will be SEVERELY CHASTISED for their evil ways. But, he WILL BE SAVED! Thank God for that.

You and I both would have been little "Hitler's" except for the grace of God. And if you don't believe that is true, then your understanding of your own carnal nature is small indeed.

Have not fear. The wicked will repent before they ever enter God's Family. Therefore, if we do not welcome them, then there is something seriously wrong with our own attitude, character, and spirituality.

Hope that helps yours understanding.

Sincerely,

Ray

You have partial truths (like many others) -- BUT if God created Satan to be an adversary so that people could "develop virtue" then God is the one ultimately responsible for all of mankind's suffering because God certainly could foresee all the evil, suffering and pain that sin&Satan caused when they induced Adam&Eve to sin.

What type of sick trick would that be for a God who is FULL of Love as his main "virtue"? Angels have free will just as mankind, some chose to rebel with the chief slanderer - the angel who BECAME Satan CHOSE to leave God's truth. Eze. 28:12-19 and Isa. 14:12-20 tell of that angels fall into sin that he CHOSE to rebel against Jehovah God and became Satan the devil.

You would indeed do well to study with one on Jehovah's Witnesses to find the truth about God's plan to do away with the devil and the suffering of mankind.

Have a nice day!!

[Ray Replies]

Dear Nameless Jehovah Witness:

You would do well to not assume without proof that your Creator and Heavenly Father is performing some kind of "sick trick" on His subjects.

I understand perfectly, that you have been "indoctrinated." That is, you were shown certain Scriptures, told what they mean, and have since believed those explanations for probably many years. You are not about to give them up without a spiritual fight. You KNOW that I am wrong and you are right.

What the Jehovah's Witnesses have done at many places is to fall in line with the same pagan teachings of Christendom that they supposed have condemned and come out of.

And so you have a God Who does not "torture" most of humanity for all eternity, but on the other hand you do NOT have a God Who plainly says many times, that He WILL save all mankind and NOT "annihilate" many of them for all eternity as you teach.

You saw through the unscriptural fallacy of ONE argument, and swallowed down whole the Satanic teaching of another unscriptural heresy.

Do you REALLY want to know the Truth? Do you REALLY have a "LOVE of the Truth." Would you spend a few days of your precious life to know the Truth? Or are you absolutely positive that you ALREADY own all of the Truth and nothing but the Truth? I will now give you an opportunity to prove your love of the Truth.

What you don't see, and have not been taught, is that the Jehovah's Witnesses, just as Christendom at large, is that:

You are worshiping a God of FAILURE!

A God Who always has to go from plan A to plan B.

A God Who is running a "disaster control operation" from heaven.

A God Who supposedly created creatures HE CANNOT CONTROL. -- Creatures that will wreck His original plan.

The foolish and unscriptural teaching is that God created a PERFECT archangel / cherub / light-brining / angel (Lucifer?), who then SINNED AND REBELLED AGAINST God.

But ... BUT, here is the evil in this teaching:

God did not intend, neither did He KNOW that this was ever going to happen!!!

Then, supposedly, God created PERFECT MAN and put him in the garden of Eden, and never intended for him to sin or rebel, nor did He know it was going to happen!

FOILED AGAIN!

Then God sent His Son Jesus Christ to BE: "The SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:15).

And now we are taught by Christendom and Jehovah's Witnesses, that JESUS CHRIST FAILED!!! He wanted to save the world, He tried to save the world, it was, in fact, His VERY WILL that all mankind be saved (I Tim. 2:4 & 4:10), but He COULDN'T DO IT.

Man's phantom free will proved to be FAR TO POWERFUL FOR THE SON OF GOD TO OVERCOME.

FAILED AGAIN! How many times must your god FAIL until you find ANOTHER GOD?

I will not mince words:

IT IS BLASPHEMY TO EVEN THINK THAT GOD CANNOT AND WILL NOT SAVE ALL MANKIND!

MAN DOES NOT HAVE A WILL THAT IS FREE TO OPERATE INDEPENDENTLY FROM HIS OWN CREATOR!

GOD IS THE POTTER, WE ARE THE POT.

GOD IS THE POTTER, WE ARE THE CLAY!

THE POTTER MOLDS THE CLAY INTO THE VESSEL HE DESIRES

THE CLAY DOES NOT FAIL TO CONFORM

THE CLAY HAS NO SUCH POWERS! (See Rom. 9).

God created EVIL, not Satan or any other supposed power greater than God (Isa. 45:7).

God uses evil for good.

GOD planted the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil in the garden.

If man wanted to know "good" he had to partake of the tree of EVIL as well. BOTH WERE IN THE SAME TREE, IN THE SAME FRUIT!

Both good and evil experiences are necessary in the building of Godly Character, and so God provides both.

God knew what He was doing, He knows what He is doing, He will continue doing exactly what He planned FROM THE BEGINNING!

Now then, with that said, read Part IX of my Series on "The Lake of Fire" which will be posted Oct 12 on this site. You will see the Scriptural proof against the "Lucifer became Satan" theory.

After you read that installment, get back with me. I want to hear from you. I want to know if you are learning anything or not. Will you do that? Good! GOD BLESS YOU!

Sincerely,

Ray

So very crazy, this guy sucks stop quoting him