"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead not know anything, neither have any more a reward, for the memoru of them is forgotten. Also their love and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

So is the Bible saying ghosts do not exist and if they do it is the work of Satan. Please give me your thoughts on this subject.

I think the bible thinks that ghosts are made up by pagans and various witchcraft people and I don't think it thinks ghost are the creation of satan.

Bloody Safari

quote:Originally posted by J-15:

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead not know anything, neither have any more a reward, for the memoru of them is forgotten. Also their love and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

So is the Bible saying ghosts do not exist and if they do it is the work of Satan. Please give me your thoughts on this subject.

Ecclesiastes is a book of self discovery. The passage you are quoting is from a discussion in Solomons mind. He is taking the ideas that men have and then apply God's truth to them to make some sort of outcome.

Ever had a talk with yourself?

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Ecclesiastes is a book of self discovery. The passage you are quoting is from a discussion in Solomons mind. He is taking the ideas that men have and then apply God's truth to them to make some sort of outcome.

Ever had a talk with yourself?

Not to mention, it was written in a backsliding stage of his life. Did he not also say, "Vanities, all is vanities."

"Too many opinions" (Too many wives.)

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Ecclesiastes is a book of self discovery. The passage you are quoting is from a discussion in Solomons mind. He is taking the ideas that men have and then apply God's truth to them to make some sort of outcome.

Ever had a talk with yourself?

I was expecting someoone to describe this all complicated. But you put it in a way thats not.

I remembered something when I read your post, but I had to look into a little more.

1 Samuel 7-20

7Then Saul said to his servants, Find me a woman who is a medium [between the living and the dead], that I may go and inquire of her. His servants said, Behold, there is a woman who is a medium at Endor.

8So Saul disguised himself, put on other raiment, and he and two men with him went and came to the woman at night. He said to her, Perceive for me by the familiar spirit and bring up for me the dead person whom I shall name to you.

9The woman said, See here, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and wizards out of the land. Why then do you lay a trap for my life to cause my death?

10And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord lives, there shall no punishment come to you for this.

11The woman said, Whom shall I bring up for you? He said, Bring up Samuel for me.

12And when the woman saw Samuel, she screamed and she said to Saul, Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!

13The king said to her, Be not afraid; what do you see? The woman said to Saul, I see a god [terrifying superhuman being] coming up out of the earth!

14He said to her, In what form is he? And she said, An old man comes up, covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and made obeisance.

15And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me to bring me up? Saul answered, I am bitterly distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do.

16Samuel said, Why then do you ask me, seeing that the Lord has turned from you and has become your enemy?

17The Lord has done to you as He said through me He would do; for [He] has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to your neighbor David.

18Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord or execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.

19Moreover, the Lord will also give Israel with you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me [among the dead]. The Lord also will give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.

20Then immediately Saul fell full length upon the earth floor [of the medium's house], and was exceedingly afraid because of Samuel's words. There was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night.

Apparently when the spirit of God was still with Saul, as King of Israel, he had banned witchcraft, on count of it being evil.. Enquire of it what you will.

the question of wether or not the bible proves the existence of ghosts is a fraught one. and spiritists are on very flaky ground when they try and use it as proof for their supposed consulatations of the dead.

That passage about talking to Samuel after he was dead is..odd. I get the impression that Samuel was "resting" in death, not a ghost wandering the earth or a spirit in heaven, because he says "Why have you disturbed me to bring me up?" Bring him up from what? From the state of death, a state of peace.

As for Ecclesiastes, does he ever then turn around and say something like "or maybe the dead live on in spirt form, in heaven, hell, or on earth" ?

quote:Originally posted by whocares123:

That passage about talking to Samuel after he was dead is..odd. I get the impression that Samuel was "resting" in death, not a ghost wandering the earth or a spirit in heaven, because he says "Why have you disturbed me to bring me up?" Bring him up from what? From the state of death, a state of peace.



As for Ecclesiastes, does he ever then turn around and say something like "or maybe the dead live on in spirt form, in heaven, hell, or on earth" ?

Abraham's bosom, is where Samuel was resting.

There's Hell the grave, Hell fire and brimstone, Abraham's Bosom.

ghost are demons, humans souls are ether in heaven or HELL

quote:Originally posted by Electron:

ghost are demons, humans souls are ether in heaven or HELL

READ THE BIBLE,please. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

First of all, your soul, is your mind. There IS a difference between a soul and a spirit. We're spirit beings. We're spirits with a mind (soul) and a body.

That's why the word of God says...

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

So a man thinks in his SPIRIT so is he: Eat and drink, says God to you, but his spirit is not with you.

Amplified:

For as he thinks in his heart, so is he. As one who reckons, he says to you, eat and drink, yet his heart is not with you [but is grudging the cost].

In these last days, you're going to go through some stuff, but if you have God with you, you're going to know. When you're squeezed, what you're really made of comes out. How you respond, what you do. That's in your heart. If you truely trust God, you're going to run to God, and not rely on self.

Now.. Paul constantly said,

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

"I", being the spirit being. He has to bring his body under subjection, as do we all.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The heart and the mind are not the same, the soul and the spirit are not the same.

Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit(heart); I will complain in the bitterness of my soul(mind).

"complain, soul"

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

"Soul delights"

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spirit, soul, and Body. Heart, mind, and body.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

piercing even to the dividing of the MIND AND HEART..... A discerner of the thoughts (mind, soul) and the INTENTS of the heart, (spirit).

Hopefully, you catch that.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

READ THE BIBLE,please. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

First of all, your soul, is your mind. There IS a difference between a soul and a spirit. We're spirit beings. We're spirits with a mind (soul) and a body.

That's why the word of God says...

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

So a man thinks in his SPIRIT so is he: Eat and drink, says God to you, but his spirit is not with you.

Amplified:

For as he thinks in his heart, so is he. As one who reckons, he says to you, eat and drink, yet his heart is not with you [but is grudging the cost].

In these last days, you're going to go through some stuff, but if you have God with you, you're going to know. When you're squeezed, what you're really made of comes out. How you respond, what you do. That's in your heart. If you truely trust God, you're going to run to God, and not rely on self.

Now.. Paul constantly said,

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

"I", being the spirit being. He has to bring his body under subjection, as do we all.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The heart and the mind are not the same, the soul and the spirit are not the same.

Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit(heart); I will complain in the bitterness of my soul(mind).

"complain, soul"

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

"Soul delights"

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spirit, soul, and Body. Heart, mind, and body.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

piercing even to the dividing of the MIND AND HEART..... A discerner of the thoughts (mind, soul) and the INTENTS of the heart, (spirit).

Hopefully, you catch that.



ya-up

are there ghosts?

no

are there spirits?

yes

Generally what people think are ghosts are either bull shit or deamons

quote:Originally posted by J-15:

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead not know anything, neither have any more a reward, for the memoru of them is forgotten. Also their love and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

So is the Bible saying ghosts do not exist and if they do it is the work of Satan. Please give me your thoughts on this subject.



That's supposed to be about ghosts???

I thought it was just emphasizing that the pursuit of things like notariety and other material rewards that people highly regard, will pass away because they are not of an eternal nature.



[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 10-15-2005).]