Look! A topic that's not about Christianity, and which is not aggressive! Flock here!

I am really tempted to put this in Humanities because Buddhism strikes me as a philosophy and not a religion, but status quo demands it go here.

This topic stems from what is probably the most lofty conversation I've ever had with a girl (no offense, blah blah blah)--she is a Buddhist and it garnered some interesting information.

I don't have a really good grasp of any of the Eastern religions (except Islam, due to a Pakistani friend, but that's Judeo-Christian, anyway) but they have interested me to a small extent.

I think what I find the most fascinating is the gigantic gap between Western thinking, which is almost universally (maybe with the exception of Nietzsche) binary--right/wrong, good/evil--and Eastern thinking, which, while it does impose morals, is so much more unclear--I'm a sucker for ambiguity.

Anyway, what my debate president told me is that the goal of Buddhism is to attain nirvana which is "literally defined as 'to snuff out'," and which signifies an end to the cycle of reincarnation in which Buddhists believe.

I was surprised to learn that nirvana could be (and has been) reached before death--naturally, this opened up a whole other can of metaphysical worms.

From the literal definition, I have come to understand that nirvana is the atheist's death--she also described it as "peace." In other words, it's an existence beyond consciousness and which is really non-existence; death without an afterlife, in other words.

I want to make a trite comment here: Buddhism is trippy as hell. I know of no other fully formed philosophy which investigates non-existence to such an intense degree, and which places such a high emphasis on it. I've always had a soft spot for the contemplation of a pure negative, and Buddhism really contemplates it.

Perhaps the most interesting thing about nirvana, as I mentioned above, is that it can be experienced while alive. This seems to me the biggest rift between Christianity and Buddhism--you can get to nirvana while alive, but not heaven. It also seems that attaining nirvana does not require faith--one may merely meditate and follow certain guidelines to attain it; bliss is not a hallucination or a mania, as heaven may be--it is provable and temporal.

ITT we contemplate nirvana and establish a working definition of it.

Also, it would be great if somebody could recommend a beginner, English language text on Buddhism. It's definitely a fascinating philosophy, even from a secular standpoint--a breath of fresh air after the cultural imperialism of Christianity.

Take a look at the various Shambhala classics. They're written in a no-nonsense fashion for a Western perspective.

The history of Buddhism is even more interesting.

Zen and the art of Motorcycle Repair Maintenance...

Don't let the title put you off... Its a fantastic narrated story...

maybe yoou should smoke salvia. It's legal except in Australia. You may be able to get some at your local headshop. Buy some 20x extract, or at least 10x. Pack 1/20 a gram of 20x extract into a bong, and hit it. It'll shatter everything you know about reality. If you're too attached to this reality, though you'll become a desparate preta, and attach yourself to random inanimate objects, trying to find your way home. Yeah, that's what happened to me, it was complete hell. But anyway, if you want to know what an out of body experience that defies this reality, that lasts only 5-10 minutes, smoke salvia as part of your spiritual practice. The spiritual leaders of aincient peoples of Mexico used to chew the leaves. Go to the BLTC forum to learn more. Sorry if this was off topic, or if mind altering substances appall you.

Every major mystical tradition has a teaching of negitive-existance or no-self, if you are looking for an overt source, try Nisargadatta, he is Indian but not in conflict with Buddhism. What you are speaking of is the centre of his practice, and linage. They are kings in this knowledge. But I warn you he is hard core.

I am assuming that you are from a Christian tradition by birth, I appologise if you are not, but please, read this http://www.workofthechariot.com/PDF/qabalah_v2.pdf if you an comprehend and stomach it, which I cannot hats off to you. It covers so much ground, and from it you will have a much greater understanding of all maystical traditions on this planet... I do not believe everything it proposes, but it's essense is beyond par.

For a book on Buddhism I would recommend "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" but for emptiness doctorine I would go with something from the Zen tradition, I am not as familiar with it's texts, though Dzogen Buddhism is based in non-duality, which is where the formaly meantioned text eminates from.

Remember that Samsara and Nirvana are one, and for this reason, emptiness is also empty. You NEED to see this to comprehend it, it is important not to see it as simple Nhilism. It is an extremily well cultivated path, and your life will bloom like you cannot believe.

I can give you much more if you'd wish...



[This message has been edited by evolove (edited 10-25-2005).]