Hello, my last post was locked for resons unclear to me. If it is possible for millions of people to believe in God and seriously discuss him on a forum I at the very least think my topic should be allowed to remain open.

I am convinced that I am God and I created this world for my own enjoyment and then placed myself here in human form with limited knowledge so that I may partake on the journey to re-discover my godhood.

Is this possible?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dicknigger:

I am convinced that I am God and I created this world for my own enjoyment and then placed myself here in human form with limited knowledge so that I may partake on the journey to re-discover my godhood.

eNJOY: http://www.liquidgeneration.com/games/cruise_scientology.asp

tHOMAS

dicknigger - dont i know you

Yes it's entirely possible. But what do you think of other people in this world?

There's nothing wrong with a person thinking they are Jesus, or they are God. We can all be considered the children of God, with personal connections to the divine, in fact anybody who tells you that you're anything other than sacred is full of shit.

Wondering about something like what you said, that can be a sign of spiritual curiosity and open mindedness. But, and it's a big but, if you think that only you are god, that's egoistic, close minded, and most likely a sign of mental illness. As a rule of thumb, a concept of god that of course includes the self but is essentially about what is beyond the self, this is a healthy and balanced perspective. But concepts of god that are only about the self, to the exclusion of things beyond the self, tend to be the products of fevered and unhealthy minds.

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Yes it's entirely possible. But what do you think of other people in this world?

There's nothing wrong with a person thinking they are Jesus, or they are God. We can all be considered the children of God, with personal connections to the divine, in fact anybody who tells you that you're anything other than sacred is full of shit.

Wondering about something like what you said, that can be a sign of spiritual curiosity and open mindedness. But, and it's a big but, if you think that only you are god, that's egoistic, close minded, and most likely a sign of mental illness. As a rule of thumb, a concept of god that of course includes the self but is essentially about what is beyond the self, this is a healthy and balanced perspective. But concepts of god that are only about the self, to the exclusion of things beyond the self, tend to be the products of fevered and unhealthy minds.

Without stating my opinion yet, I'd just like to ask how you can say that one person alone can not be God. How do you possess this knowledge? Just curious.

quote:and most likely a sign of mental illness.

In the same way i would consider people who have imaginary friends in the sky to be mentally ill?

In the same way that i would consider people who clasp their hands together and talk to noone mentally ill?

In the same way i would consider people who take a 2000 year old piece of fiction to be the infallible work of God to be mentally ill?

oh dicknigger!

You've probably heard another person say this before, right? Or heard of madmen saying it or whatever. If a guy was talking to you and told you that he, and only he, was god - what would you think?

I know that I alone am not god, because my concept of what god is makes that statement laughably meaningless. I believe that I am part of god, but my belief as to what god is goes so far beyond an individual person, or even a single universe, how could I possibly claim to be such a thing?

The delusion of a person thinking that they are god can only be supported by a belief in a personal, and finite, god. This kind of perspective is basically like imagining God is a person like you or I, so why can't you or I be God? Unfortunately the idea that God is like a person is the most common notion of him people get taught.

Consider this. Let's just say that you, dicknigger, were originally God (and pretend not to notice how this sentence sounds). When you were God, you were originally infinite right? You were everything, you were everywhere, that's what God is. So now that you are dicknigger, what happened to your old self? Did that infinite being disappear? Surely something infinite has no end, so it should still be infinite, in other words you shouldn't be here, you should still be God. So perhaps you are still infinite, because you literally are this whole universe as well as yourself, and everything beyond it even though you're not aware of it.

Well, if you had decided to do that just for fun, is your life the most fun and incredible and fantastic etc possible, as fun as a god could make his own life if he was doing it for fun? If so you must be the happiest human being to ever live, from my point of view (I won't take it personally that I might not really exist according to you). Chances are your life isn't one long streak of ecstatic bliss, simply because that's not how life works for most people.

So perhaps when you were God you did it to forget that you're really God, to play a trick on yourself so that you'd forget all of that stuff and really think you're just a human. Well now, if you had the power of God and you wanted to do that, wouldn't you have done it so well you wouldn't have realised it like you think you have? I think God would have done a better job, good enough for anybody who is no longer infinite to figure it out.

So perhaps you, as God, created this universe and everything in it, because maybe you would start to wonder about your own divinity and perhaps figure it out, which is basically what you suggested in your opening post. The thing is, if you as God had wanted to do that, if the journey towards remembering one's own divinity is something you found desirable, why would you just limit yourself to doing it with one person? God, being infinite, is not likely to be that petty and narrow minded.

The idea that the path of spirituality is about remembering your own divinity is something that many theological figures would agree with. If you're looking for reading material on the matter, I'd recommend "Siddhartha" by Herman Hesse, "God's Debris" by Scott Adams, and the Gospel of Thomas by uh... Thomas http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Daz:

In the same way i would consider people who have imaginary friends in the sky to be mentally ill?

In the same way that i would consider people who clasp their hands together and talk to noone mentally ill?

In the same way i would consider people who take a 2000 year old piece of fiction to be the infallible work of God to be mentally ill?

Religious ideation is a well known symptom associated with schizophrenia in particular. Generally if you hear somebody claiming to be the messiah, God himself, Napoleon (mods aside), Julius Caesar, etc you can safely say not everything is working OK in the old ticker. Why do these people never think they are Harold the janitor?

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

You've probably heard another person say this before, right? Or heard of madmen saying it or whatever. If a guy was talking to you and told you that he, and only he, was god - what would you think?

I know that I alone am not god, because my concept of what god is makes that statement laughably meaningless. I believe that I am part of god, but my belief as to what god is goes so far beyond an individual person, or even a single universe, how could I possibly claim to be such a thing?

The delusion of a person thinking that they are god can only be supported by a belief in a personal, and finite, god. This kind of perspective is basically like imagining God is a person like you or I, so why can't you or I be God? Unfortunately the idea that God is like a person is the most common notion of him people get taught.

Consider this. Let's just say that you, dicknigger, were originally God (and pretend not to notice how this sentence sounds). When you were God, you were originally infinite right? You were everything, you were everywhere, that's what God is. So now that you are dicknigger, what happened to your old self? Did that infinite being disappear? Surely something infinite has no end, so it should still be infinite, in other words you shouldn't be here, you should still be God. So perhaps you are still infinite, because you literally are this whole universe as well as yourself, and everything beyond it even though you're not aware of it.

Well, if you had decided to do that just for fun, is your life the most fun and incredible and fantastic etc possible, as fun as a god could make his own life if he was doing it for fun? If so you must be the happiest human being to ever live, from my point of view (I won't take it personally that I might not really exist according to you). Chances are your life isn't one long streak of ecstatic bliss, simply because that's not how life works for most people.

So perhaps when you were God you did it to forget that you're really God, to play a trick on yourself so that you'd forget all of that stuff and really think you're just a human. Well now, if you had the power of God and you wanted to do that, wouldn't you have done it so well you wouldn't have realised it like you think you have? I think God would have done a better job, good enough for anybody who is no longer infinite to figure it out.

So perhaps you, as God, created this universe and everything in it, because maybe you would start to wonder about your own divinity and perhaps figure it out, which is basically what you suggested in your opening post. The thing is, if you as God had wanted to do that, if the journey towards remembering one's own divinity is something you found desirable, why would you just limit yourself to doing it with one person? God, being infinite, is not likely to be that petty and narrow minded.

The idea that the path of spirituality is about remembering your own divinity is something that many theological figures would agree with. If you're looking for reading material on the matter, I'd recommend "Siddhartha" by Herman Hesse, "God's Debris" by Scott Adams, and the Gospel of Thomas by uh... Thomas http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

A very good post and I agree with you on most points my dear niggerfriend.

"The thing is, if you as God had wanted to do that, if the journey towards remembering one's own divinity is something you found desirable, why would you just limit yourself to doing it with one person? God, being infinite, is not likely to be that petty and narrow minded."

What if it was five people? Is that more plausible?

I never know. Have the time everyones telling me I'm not closing enough threads then the other half of the time everyone is telling me I'm closing too many threads. Why don't you all just grab an arm and pull until I splatter into a puddle.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Why don't you all just grab an arm and pull until I splatter into a puddle.

Cheers,

Lost

Don't tempt us!

quote:Originally posted by dicknigger:

What if it was five people? Is that more plausible?

Well I mean of course it's possible, but that's still thinking like a human, and imagining an infinite god would also think like a human. It's like a rain cloud thinking that it would be cool to be five raindrops, except the raincloud is in fact of infinite size. Although let's just imagine God did that, considering he is eternal, your life and the lives of four other people would end as soon as they have begun essentially, and so for all of time, for the rest of eternity, he'd only have five memories of what it's like to be a human that forgot it was god. Don't you think after a few thousand years he'd get bored and try again? And since he's eternal, getting bored and trying it again means he could keep on doing it an infinite number of times.

It makes more sense that god would create an infinite number of individuals in an infinite number of universes, doesn't it? It would allow him to constantly experience being alive in an infinite individuals that have forgotten they are god, but are returning to that state, for all of time.

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Well I mean of course it's possible, but that's still thinking like a human, and imagining an infinite god would also think like a human. It's like a rain cloud thinking that it would be cool to be five raindrops, except the raincloud is in fact of infinite size. Although let's just imagine God did that, considering he is eternal, your life and the lives of four other people would end as soon as they have begun essentially, and so for all of time, for the rest of eternity, he'd only have five memories of what it's like to be a human that forgot it was god. Don't you think after a few thousand years he'd get bored and try again? And since he's eternal, getting bored and trying it again means he could keep on doing it an infinite number of times.

It makes more sense that god would create an infinite number of individuals in an infinite number of universes, doesn't it? It would allow him to constantly experience being alive in an infinite individuals that have forgotten they are god, but are returning to that state, for all of time.



Again, I agree with most of what you say, but ah, let's say God being the infinite being he is decides he'd find it fun to create a game to entertain him.

Now like you said about eternity, the game would end as soon as it begun, however I find this not to be true. Looking at eternity from a human point of view it looks like an infinite amount of time, but still time. Point A to point B, even though the start or end do not exist.

The thing is, if God is infinite then he has the power to control what eternity is. It could be a single moment, a time line, whatever. He could warp it around at will to suit his needs.

Uh, but that's a little off topic. As I was saying.. Let's say God created a game in which he was "an infinite number of individuals in an infinite number of universes". In the scope of eternity is it likely that he would stay with this one game, however vast and limitless it might be?

If I were God I would do more than just create a game to re-discover my divinity. I would make a world like our own and set up a path for a few individuals that would lead them on a glorious quest. God being infinite would of course be all of the world, and all the people on it, but an infinite being can do anything, and thus he could choose to focus his attention from the infinite to the finite, in the form of say five or six people.

And much like a video game he could play out this quest he's created and then go play another game. Perhaps the next one with him being all the people in the previous world, or another select few, or as stated above "an infinite number of individuals in an infinite number of universes".

Of course since he is infinite he could play an infinite number of games at the same time, but that doesn't mean he would choose to do so.

Well alright, let's say that God set up the universe for the benefit of just one person (the difference between one and five, when you compare it to infinity, is totally arbitrary).

In this universe, how much of it would he have made real? There are potentially all sorts of things in the world that you would never be able to see, as one person you simply can't read every single book, look inside every nook and cranny, dive to the bottom of every ocean etc. So would God have made all that stuff, even though you wouldn't know if it existed or not? If God wanted to make a fake building for example, do you think he would only make the fake appearance of one like something off a Hollywood set that just have fronts? Or would he make the real thing? Considering he is able to do anything and create anything he wants just by wishing it, there's no reason he would be lazy, and being as supreme as he is there is no reason he would be that tacky. If God wanted to make the entire world for you to live in, do you think he would do a half assed job of creating it? Do you think that the world is like the set of the Truman show, and if you scratch the sky you'll find out it's not really there? That doesn't sound like the handywork of a supreme and omnipotent being to me.

Well what about people then? You certainly see people around you in the world, do you think they are like fake buildings and fake screens too? Some kind of robot actors that are only surfaces, with nothing inside them the way you know you are real? If God would make all the things in this universe real (I can think of no reason why he wouldn't), it stands to reason that he would make other humans real too, lets say that means contructing them just like your body and brain are constructed down to an atomic level, perfect illusions to the finest detail. Now we know that the physical brain is responsible for generating consciousness, it's been shown that patients who have specific parts of their brain removed lose specific aspects of their mind (unless of course this information is just part of an elaborate trick to keep you from realising you true nature, although you could always test this by experimenting with self-lobotomy). Well if all the other people in the world are identical to you down to an atomic level, and they probably even think they are real too, then what makes you different from all of them? The only possible answer is that of all the bodies and brains in the world, yours is the only one that God is choosing to live through.

Now, that would have to mean you are the most interesting person in the universe, and that's why God chose you instead of everybody else (is there anything else that makes you different from the other people you see in the world?). Doesn't that sound the slightest bit egotistical? And as I said before, perhaps God is really interested in experiencing the return from non-godhood towards godhood, which is why he is living it through people. Well if all these billions of people in the world are identical to you in an atomic sense, and are just as real physically, why would God choose to restrict himself to just you? Again, the only possible explanation you can probably come up with is that you're the most special somehow. Vanity aside, there's no reason to expect God to have chosen this.

Now all these things being said, I like your idea that God would do it to live through a heroic story. I don't know if you're familiar with Hinduism but it sounds a bit like Vishnu's habit of incarnating himself as human beings from time to time, you might like to read up on it. Here's a link with an overview of it for example (probably not the best one around, just one of the first I came across): http://tinyurl.com/9wqbj

There are just problems with thinking that you and you alone are God. If you spend enough time thinking about what infinity means, you'll see why. Most of us still have the same idea of infinity that we learned as kids, the idea that it's an ever increasing number, because the biggest number we can think of can always have one added to it and so on. I'm not even sure the human mind can do anything except estimate infinity by imagining a series that is approaching it (without the use of psychedelic drugs). But infinity isn't something that is always growing, it's something that already is, it can't be changing or else you've got a situation where infinity is like Sisyphus, always trying to become infinity but never actually getting there (because if there is a state that it can soon become which will be bigger than itself now, it wasn't infinite in the first place). The notion of infinite that we normally use is just a shorthand for vaguely describing it, but the fact is that infinite can't be something that is changing.

So if God is infinite, it's impossible for him to move through time from the past til now, or from now til the future, because if he can do these things he is not infinite (being in the past means he lacks being in the present, etc, infinite can't lack anything at all). The same is true for location in space, god can't be there, because if he is there he is not here, and if he is not here he is lacking something and not infinite. And so if God is you, he is only you, and not anything else, therefore he is not infinite.

The only possible thing is that God is you, and everyone else, and everything else, that ever was, is, or possibly can be, simultaneously.

However, that doesn't mean there aren't demigods, some kinds of being that have godlike powers, and you're one of those gods living a simulated life, for whatever reason. There are problems with that too though, for one thing there are much more interesting explanations for reality, for another it's still very much an ego-centered view of reality, it also is the kind of belief that is probably not very healthy psychologically (assuming this world is real beyond your mind), and last but not least for what it's worth I can guarantee you that I for one have consciousness and existence independent from you. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

You know btw, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Buddhism, but the idea that reality is an illusion is one of it's core principles (although Buddha never said anything about God existing or not, so it's agnostic in that sense). As well as that, unlike Christianity where there was only one Jesus, anybody can potentially be another Buddha, you yourself could very well become one. I suspect you'd find the subject very interesting, here's a brief description of some fundamental ideas:

http://tinyurl.com/cf6bk

If you're looking for a book on Buddhism though watch out, there's a lot of New Age hocus pokus type stuff about it, anything by D.T. Suzuki is good though.

Just wondering: Any specific reason you linked to Mahayhana Buddhism instead of Theravada? Theravada was the "original", I believe.

A few reasons. First off, it's not really the "original", since it was just one of over a dozen schools that formed after Buddha's death. Theravada and Mahayana arose from a council that was established some months after Buddha's death, both main schools emerging after a split in the council a hundred years later. Some monks were more liberal than the rather conservative council, so they left to forge their own path. The liberal monks that left were known as the Mahasanghika and their teachings essentially later became Mahayana Buddhism. The conservative council, the Sarvāstivādin, kept its own ways and later became known as Theravada.

So personally I don't take Theravada any more seriously simply by grace of it being some kind of continuous lineage back to Buddha, he didn't even set up the original council that it later became. More importantly though, it's still very much the more conservative end of the Buddhist spectrum, emphasising more heavily the practises and whatnot for personal liberation. Mahayana by contrast is much more open, and touches on philosophical subjects that are more relevent to what dicknigger is talking about.

Specifically Theravada monks think of humanity as being flawed, fucked, and generally an inconvenience placed in the path to enlightenment. Mahayana monks on the other hand thinks of all humans as being inherently full of potential, and in a much more optomistic way they think that every single human has "Buddha nature", they just have to realise it, which fits with what I was saying in an earlier post. Also I chose Mahayana simply because it's the branch of Buddhism I find most appealing.

Alright, thanks. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) I've always been more attracted to Theravada, because - though my understanding is limited - it seemed to make a little more sense, and being conservative I've read that it follows more closely the teachings of Gautama Buddha.

http://www.answers.com/

First off:

Defining God/a God



A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.

The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.



A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.

An image of a supernatural being; an idol.

One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.

A very handsome man.

A powerful ruler or despot.



God, divinity of the three great monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, as well as many other world religions. See also religion and articles on individual religions.

Secondly:



Names for God

In the Old Testament various names for God are used. YHWH is the most celebrated of these; the Hebrews considered the name ineffable and, in reading, substituted the name Adonai [my Lord]. The ineffable name, or tetragrammaton [Gr.,=four-letter form], is of unknown origin; the reconstruction Jehovah was based on a mistake, and the form Yahweh is not now regarded as reliable. The name Jah occurring in names such as Elijah is a form of YHWH. The most common name for God in the Old Testament is Elohim, a plural form, but used as a singular when speaking of God. The name El, not connected with Elohim, is also used, especially in proper names, e.g., Elijah. The name Shaddai, used with other words and in names (e.g., Zurishaddai), appears rarely. Of these names only Adonai has a satisfactory etymology. It is generally not possible to tell from English translations of the Bible what was the exact form of the name of God in the original. In Islam, the name of God is Allah.

Thirdly:

Conceptions of God

The general conception of God may be said to be that of an infinite being (often a personality but not necessarily anthropomorphic) who is supremely good, who created the world, who knows all and can do all, who is transcendent over and immanent in the world, and who loves humanity. By the majority of Christians God is believed to have lived on earth in the flesh as Jesus (see Trinity). In the Hebrew Bible the concept of God is not a unified one. The attitude of believers to this apparent inconsistency has generally been that God, unchanging, revealed Himself more and more to Israel.

Scholars belonging to the rational schools of the 19th cent. developed a view of the Bible as primarily a history of Judaism that evolved naturally without the benefit of divine intervention in the world. They see a series of stages in which God was first held by the Jews as simply the head of a tribal pantheon, then gradually assumed all the attributes of God's fellow divinities, but was still worshiped more or less idolatrously. Gradually, according to these scholars, the Jews considered their God as more and more powerful until they believed God creator and ruler of all humans though preferring Israel as God's chosen people.

God's attributes of goodness, love, and mercy these critics consider as very late in this development. More recent scholars have refuted this latter position, seeing these very qualities in the God of the Exodus. Although the idea of God, through its long acceptance by Jews, Christians, and Muslims, has come to be associated with the concept of a good, infinite personality, in recent times the name has been extended to many principles of an utterly different sort; thus, a philosopher may consider the unifying concept in his philosophy (e.g., cosmic energy, mind, world soul, number) as God.

...and Arguments for God's Existence

There are several famous arguments for the existence of God. The argument from the First Cause maintains that since in the world every effect has its cause behind it (and every actuality its potentiality), the first effect (and first actuality) in the world must have had its cause (and potentiality), which was in itself both cause and effect (and potentiality and actuality), i.e., God. The cosmological argument maintains that since the world, and all that is in it, seems to have no necessary or absolute (nonrelative) existence, an independent existence (God) must be implied for the world as the explanation of its relations.

The teleological argument maintains that, since from a comprehensive view of nature and the world everything seems to exist according to a certain great plan, a planner (God) must be postulated. The ontological argument maintains that since the human conception of God is the highest conception humanly possible and since the highest conception humanly possible must have existence as one attribute, God must exist. Immanuel Kant believed that he refuted these arguments by showing that existence is no part of the content of an idea. This principle has become very important in contemporary philosophy, particularly in existentialism. The consensus among theologians is that the existence of God must in some way be accepted on faith.



[QUOTE]Originally posted by dicknigger:

I am convinced that I am God and I created this world for my own enjoyment and then placed myself here in human form with limited knowledge so that I may partake on the journey to re-discover my godhood.

Is this possible?

Do you fit into any of the above categories?

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Religious ideation is a well known symptom associated with schizophrenia in particular. Generally if you hear somebody claiming to be the messiah, God himself, Napoleon (mods aside), Julius Caesar, etc you can safely say not everything is working OK in the old ticker. Why do these people never think they are Harold the janitor?

Narcissism.

quote:Originally posted by dicknigger:

I am convinced that I am God

Dude. Me to!!!