I was studying Christianity for a while, and they say, well to paraphrase, "those who don't follow the word of Jesus are going to hell." Now I always view the stuff in the bible as a type of metaphor. And always view everything that I read as "God is the light, God is Truth, Jesus is the word of God (Truth/Light), and the holy spirit is the process in which, when one understand the word of God, and practices the word of God, they in turn become part of the word of God. And I could always replace God, with Truth, and Light, and it all means the same thing.

I was also studying Buddhism for a while as well. And found some key similarities, in the two religions, for instance that in order to reach truth, and enlightenment, one must follow a path of compassion and wisdom. Well this is a much shortened version of the whole thing, but in a sense isn't this the word of Jesus? Because isn't Jesus, in a sense, the embodiment of love? But I discussed this with Christains, and they didn't like my view and see everything in the bible as literal, and fact. Including the old testament, where people lived like 900 years. And if they aren't Christains they're going to hell. This just bothers me about Christianity.

For starters, as a Christian I really like Buddhism and Buddhist philosophy. The problem I see in it is this: In Christianity, man is reliant on God. Man is nothing without God. In Buddhism (and please correct me if I'm wrong, as I may be) man's only reliance is on himself. It is man's duty to rid himself of desire and reach enlightenment. It is considered a possibility of man to do so. In Christianity, it is not. Jesus, in a sense, was what Buddhists would percieve as an enlightened man, in that he had no desire, he was completely selfless.

But it was also Jesus himself who said that the only way to heaven was through him. He taught that a man's soul must be born again through him to get into heaven.

Depends on which christians you talk to. I know Catholics beleive that God is a nice guy and won't send you to Hell for being born in the wrong place and never hearing about Jesus. Then there are some other sects that believe that anyone not in thier little group will go to Hell including the ones born before thier group started.

Yeah, but if you view Jesus as the human emodiment of unbiased love, doesn't that mean that the way to God (Heaven/ the light/ truth), is through unbiased love? Which in a sense would mean that no matter what religion you practice, as long as you cleanse your imperfections through love, and continually try to further edify yourself, you'll make it to heaven.

Thanks for your responses, to those above

It would be nice to hear a Christain's thought on this though.

I've been reading and studying the bible alot lately and the only way to get eternal life is through believing that Jesus was God's son and the living word and he was sinless and died to pay for our sins and was raised to life 3 days later.

So after you accept Christ you are saved, it is what you do after that affects your rewards in Heaven. so deeds on earth are not what get you into heaven, its believing and trusting God

yeah i know I'm not perfect in grammar and puntcuation but thats not what im going for so, dont flame because of that

edit-some capitalization



[This message has been edited by Schism05 (edited 10-23-2005).]

I respect Buddhist beliefs, but yea, the Dalai Lama is going to hell.

The Dalai Lama is already in Heaven...

To view this world through his eyes for a split second would make eternity in hell a second thought...

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

I respect Buddhist beliefs, but yea, the Dalai Lama is going to hell.

Even though you don't follow his religion, the Dalai Lama would think and pray (in his manner) that you will achieve enlightenment since you are a conscious being.

Simply because he doesn't follow your religion, you think that he should go to hell.

Which attitude sounds more spiritual to you?

Buddhism wipes the floor with Christianity.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

I respect Buddhist beliefs, but yea, the Dalai Lama is going to hell.

You're right - hell is Earth.

quote:Originally posted by Osiris89:

You're right - hell is Earth.

You're not right. Earth=Heaven. "Your kingdom come your will be done on EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN."

People say, "Oh well, I just want to go home, (heaven). It's a country way of saying, I want to die. I tell them, "No. Ya know, Heaven isn't like Earth, but Earth is suppose to be like Heaven." It's a matter of choices though. If you choose to walk in Victory, and really purpose it in your heart, Excersize it with your mouth, read it, and transform your mind, or condition it to line up with what you're purposed in your heart (spirit), you WILL walk in victory, but if you let the cares of the world choke the Word, you chose to get in the Ring with Satan, and let's face it, none of us are perfect. Victory, is ours through CHRIST, not through man, but God. So when we start playing patty cake with the Devil, or getting in the ring with him to try and fight him, yea, we loose, because man doesn't have the victory GOD DOES. If we'd just give it all to God, which requires trusting him, we'd be better off. I don't know why man thinks he can do things better than God. God said, "Cast your cares upon me, for I care for you."

On with the Buddah thing. I like it, because it's partly the truth, but I don't like it because part of a truth is missing, therefore, it isn't the whole truth. Jesus himself said, "ONLY BELIEVE. All things are possible to him THAT BELIEVES all things are possible." Man, YES, if you purpose it in your heart, Go after it with your mind, body and Heart. Give it, whatever 'it' is, all you've got, then you will do it, because you'll NOT GIVE UP, OR BE STOPPED, until you do. It requires alot of discipline. A lot of conditioning. If you can get your mind to stop doubting, tell it, or condition it to believe what you want it to believe, you can. If you doubt though, you won't. Paul said, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "Be not conformed of this world, but be TRANSFORMED, by the RENEWING OF YOUR MIND." It's a matter of, "Do you REALLY want it? How bad DO you WANT it?"

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Even though you don't follow his religion, the Dalai Lama would think and pray (in his manner) that you will achieve enlightenment since you are a conscious being.

Simply because he doesn't follow your religion, you think that he should go to hell.

Which attitude sounds more spiritual to you?

i don't judge the correctness of a religion based on how "spiritual" it sounds.

and when did i say i think he should go to hell? i don't think he should go to hell. i think its a tradgedy that anyone should go to hell. so does god (2 Peter 3:9).

Just as the dalai lama would pray that i reach a higher level of enlightenment, i pray that he would recieve christ's sacrifice, and spend eternity in paradise.

i bear no ill will toward him, but he is a sinner, just like i am (rom 2:23) and without accepting christ, those sins cannot be pardoned.

[This message has been edited by theBishop (edited 10-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

i don't judge the correctness of a religion based on how "spiritual" it sounds.

and when did i say i think he should go to hell? i don't think he should go to hell. i think its a tradgedy that anyone should go to hell. so does god (2 Peter 3:9).

Just as the dalai lama would pray that i reach a higher level of enlightenment, i pray that he would recieve christ's sacrifice, and spend eternity in paradise.

i bear no ill will toward him, but he is a sinner, just like i am (rom 2:23) and without accepting christ, those sins cannot be pardoned.

Well presumably you don't think he should go to heaven, or else you disagree with your religion. What I'm saying is that you think it is correct that he, as a sinner, should go to hell. And that he is a sinner because of a choice he has made, not to believe Jesus is his saviour.

In other words, a persons worth isn't found in the nature of their spirit, it's dictated by their belief or not in a specific concept. I have trouble with a spiritual system that insists on the impurity of the human spirit.

Well rather than ask you which is more spiritual, how about which is more compassionate? And is compassion not a fundamentally vital aspect of religion, like the unconditional love of a parent?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MasterPython:

I know Catholics beleive that God is a nice guy and won't send you to Hell for being born in the wrong place and never hearing about Jesus.

He's hardly what you'd call wicked anyway!

quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

Well presumably you don't think he should go to heaven, or else you disagree with your religion. What I'm saying is that you think it is correct that he, as a sinner, should go to hell. And that he is a sinner because of a choice he has made, not to believe Jesus is his saviour.

In other words, a persons worth isn't found in the nature of their spirit, it's dictated by their belief or not in a specific concept. I have trouble with a spiritual system that insists on the impurity of the human spirit.

Well rather than ask you which is more spiritual, how about which is more compassionate? And is compassion not a fundamentally vital aspect of religion, like the unconditional love of a parent?

What i think should happen is irrelevant. Its like asking if I think gravity should attract large objects together. Should in this example implies a moral component, and i don't think that's the issue.

And he's not a sinner because he doesn't believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus, and i am a sinner. Presumably, you don't believe in Jesus, and you are a sinner. Everyone sins. Period. Its not my place to judge who among us sins slightly less, and thus is a "good person".

Indeed, which is more compassionate? If a child misbehaves and is rewarded with candy, is that compassionate parenting?

Your statement about the human spirit i think really cuts to a fundemental question about human nature, and how we view religion.

You know what just hit me, the Dalai Lama would be fine in hell, because his hapiness isn't based on outside circumstances.

quote:Originally posted by Tacit_Attack:

You know what just hit me, the Dalai Lama would be fine in hell, because his hapiness isn't based on outside circumstances.

Possesions, not circumstances

No, it's a Buddhist belief that happiness isn't based on outside circumstances (you're right though, one of the nonvirtues is gaining of material wealth). The Dalai Lama said himself, if a problem can be taken care of, there is no use worrying about it. And If nothing can be done about a problem, then there is also no use worrying about it. This is paraphrased from the Good Heart. I think All Christains/Buddhists should read this. It's a book on the Dalai Lama's interpretation on the teachings of Jesus. It does great justice to both Christianity and Buddhism, and doesn't belittle either religion.

but anyways it is a Buddhist belief that when reaching a high state of enlightenment, that all love flows outward from the person, and this selfless flowing of love isn't dependant on any outside circumstances. Even physical pain is felt in a way so that it does not hinder this. So in hell, the Dalai Lama's spiritual practice will aid him. Yeah, the whole Dalai Lama in hell thing is kind of a nonsensical topic, but interesting none the less.





[This message has been edited by Tacit_Attack (edited 10-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

What i think should happen is irrelevant. Its like asking if I think gravity should attract large objects together. Should in this example implies a moral component, and i don't think that's the issue.

What I'm saying is that you agree with your religion, that God is right in allowing him to go to hell (it can't be out of God's control, so he is implying that it is correct). There must be a reason for God setting up the conditions that will allow his children to suffer tragedy, or else he chooses the fate of human beings arbitrarily and makes religion a very legalistic subject.

It's not like gravity, because a rock can't do anything about hitting the ground, there is no element of choice and consequence involved. More importantly, the rock won't suffer until the end of time if he makes the wrong choice.



quote:And he's not a sinner because he doesn't believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus, and i am a sinner. Presumably, you don't believe in Jesus, and you are a sinner. Everyone sins. Period. Its not my place to judge who among us sins slightly less, and thus is a "good person".

What sin has the Dalai Lama committed exactly? Is it the original sin that all of us are born with? I thought the only way for all us natural sinners to escape Hell was to accept Lord Jesus as our personal saviour, and it's his lack of doing this that will send the Dalai Lama to hell forever.

quote:Indeed, which is more compassionate? If a child misbehaves and is rewarded with candy, is that compassionate parenting?

Parents punish their children because it teaches them not to do bad things. However God doesn't punish us when we misbehave, he threatens to punish us after we have spent a life misbehaving. If a parent didn't punish their children once while they were growing up, but then punished them for the rest of their natural lives later on, would that be good parenting? What would it have taught them, since they didn't learn about punishment and consequences as a child? Parents don't punish their children because punishment on it's own is a good thing, they punish them because the good that comes out of it is it will teach them not to do it again. But when God punishes his sinful children, it's too late for them to learn any good from it.

The fact is that God makes the rules of existence. If he decided to forgive his children for sinning in their lives, he could simply let them into heaven, there's nobody greater than him to stop that. So I don't see the slightest bit of compassion in a god that would allow his children to suffer for eternity when he could change that simply by wishing it.

fire

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

I respect Buddhist beliefs, but yea, the Dalai Lama is going to hell.

>>> YES <<<

It's interesting to think that all the Christians who beleive he's going to hell are... wrong.

If Christianity is true, and those who are not Christians are going to hell, therefore Dali has a ticket.

I was reading some shit about Jesus and other religions, and if you really read the bible and the way it was translated and some other shit it doesn't necesarily say that Jesus is the only way. More like God is the way as is people like Jesus and being the best you can.

I'm like a christian with buddhist/hinduist?/other beliefs I guess. So maybe not really christian then.

I'm really trying to stress this, I'd like a Christain view point on this. This is my view on Christianity. Jesus is uncompromising love and compassion. God is truth, or the light. Jesus is the word of God. The only way to God is through Jesus, so in a sense couldn't this also be said that the only way to the light is through love and compassion. The only way to be cleansed of your sins is through love and compassion. Therefore I believe someone can not be a Christain and not go to hell.

quote:Originally posted by Tacit_Attack:

I'm really trying to stress this, I'd like a Christain view point on this. This is my view on Christianity. Jesus is uncompromising love and compassion. God is truth, or the light. Jesus is the word of God. The only way to God is through Jesus, so in a sense couldn't this also be said that the only way to the light is through love and compassion. The only way to be cleansed of your sins is through love and compassion. Therefore I believe someone can not be a Christain and not go to hell.

Yea, I was baptized and all that and just recently in the last couple years started making a point to learn of other things. I think thats a good way to explain it. Jesus is one way to heaven or whatever but isn't the only way..well not really, hes the only way as in following what he taught and he believed in.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

For starters, as a Christian I really like Buddhism and Buddhist philosophy. The problem I see in it is this: In Christianity, man is reliant on God. Man is nothing without God. In Buddhism (and please correct me if I'm wrong, as I may be) man's only reliance is on himself. It is man's duty to rid himself of desire and reach enlightenment. It is considered a possibility of man to do so. In Christianity, it is not. Jesus, in a sense, was what Buddhists would percieve as an enlightened man, in that he had no desire, he was completely selfless.

But it was also Jesus himself who said that the only way to heaven was through him. He taught that a man's soul must be born again through him to get into heaven.

Jesus went to hell