You'll hear people say "You won't find any atheists in foxholes," implying that if you don't believe in God you won't fight for your country.

I'm assuming the logic is that atheists don't have anything worth fighting for, or they don't have a God to comfort and protect them in battle, or they're afraid of dying since there's no promise of an afterlife?

As it turns out, this is not entirely true: http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/

Some organizations are celebrating the service of atheists this Veteran's Day, Nov. 11.

Does theism make one more likely to fight for one's country?

Does religion relate to patriotism?

~conjuror (http://caught22.com)

" 'There are no atheists in foxholes' isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes."

--James Morrow

i've always interpreted quote as, when your life is in extreme peril, you will grasp on to anything you can. God is an obvious choice in this situation.

Do you think, proportionally, fewer atheists join the military?

Does this relate to their religious beliefs?

Oops!

For a minute there I thought...

...well, never mind...

FoxLeonard *...returning to my cave...*

No, it's saying you need to believe in one hell of a benevolent God to get into a foxhole...

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i've always interpreted quote as, when your life is in extreme peril, you will grasp on to anything you can. God is an obvious choice in this situation.

You are correct.

Oh.

So the quote is actually saying that if you're an atheist going into battle, once you're being fired upon you learn to believe in a benevolent God real fast...

Right?

quote:Originally posted by conjuror:

Oh.

So the quote is actually saying that if you're an atheist going into battle, once you're being fired upon you learn to believe in a benevolent God real fast...

Right?



thats the way i've always interpreted it, but the other way seems just as valid.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_foxholes.htm

quote:This saying has been around for quite a long time and gets used with some regularity, but it became even more popular after the terrorist attacks in the United States on September 11, 2001. As Gordon B. Hinckley told Mormons back in 1996:

As you once knew so well, there are no atheists in foxholes. In times of extremity, we plead for and put our trust in a power mightier than ourselves.

Hinckley's quote explains the purpose behind saying that here are no atheists in foxholes: during times of great crisis, in particular those which threaten a person's life, it is no longer possible to "hold out" and maintain disbelief in a higher, saving power. During such experiences, the "natural" and automatic reaction of a human being is to start believing in God and hope for some form of salvation.

quote:Originally posted by conjuror:

You'll hear people say "You won't find any atheists in foxholes," implying that if you don't believe in God you won't fight for your country.



That actualy means that in a foxhole everyone is going "OH GOD!!!!!!!!!!!" no matter what they beleived before they got in.

Of course you wont find any atheists in foxholes. The super intelligent atheists are all behind the lines comanding the troops, building the weapons and flying the remote controled planes. Foxholes are for grunts.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Yes, theism makes one more likely to act against their own self interest. For example, cult members committing mass suicides and islamic suicide bombers.

Societly/culture can do the same thing. But religion takes it to the extreme, its an infection of the mind. Religion disables logic processing allowing any belief to be implanted, it also sets up thought patterns that prevent the mental block from being removed. Religions can be effectively modeled as virues that replicate through thoughts.



[This message has been edited by Real.PUA (edited 11-10-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

Foxholes are for grunts.

Although it could've been worded differently, it's true. I guess if the soldiers are underground while they are fighting, they wouldn't have any desire to be stuck in that same situation for eternity.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i've always interpreted quote as, when your life is in extreme peril, you will grasp on to anything you can. God is an obvious choice in this situation.

Me too...

I've always preferred

quote:A kind and loving god would never do this, and a cruel one would simply have made the air out of acid.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

i've always interpreted quote as, when your life is in extreme peril, you will grasp on to anything you can. God is an obvious choice in this situation.



anouther sign that god is make belive in efforts to give some one to complain to and to keep us "motivated"

found an interesting article that offers a different look: "There are no theists when they rely on human-discovered natural science."

http://nysean.redstate.org/print/2005/10/20/20568/693

"It seems to me that you can't have it both ways: you can't support creationism, question global warming, fight research into the potential of existing stem cell lines, etc. AND benefit from the science that produced the operation that saves your life or that of a loved one. If the science that has determined that we evolved through natural selection can be called into question, why not the science that went into developing the pacemaker that Dick Cheney had implanted to regulate his heartbeat?"

quote:Originally posted by Canti:

I've always preferred

A kind and loving god would never do this, and a cruel one would simply have made the air out of acid.



This is kind of going off on a tangent but there actually is some merit to the second scenario.

When you you consider the fact that the air is composed largely of oxygen which is a pretty wicked element.

Im planning to be a grunt and im an Athiest and i love my country to death so sorta screws that up...