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View Full Version : If only more Christians talked like this


imperfectcircle
2005-11-11, 02:41
I'd probably still call myself one.

quote:“Jesus was a radical revolutionary who fought with religious leaders all his life and finally they crucified Him because they couldn’t handle his revolutionary ways. His biggest enemies were the religious people not the sinners. Even Rome would probably have let Him alone except for the religious leaders of the day. As always, the worst enemies of God are in the religious institutions. Jesus was a prophet who gathered around him a small cluster of people to do life together—but when He rejected all formal religion they rejected Him and eventually killed Him.

Take the record in the Bible, for instance. Jesus is rarely is seen in the Bible attending a synagogue. When he does show up he stirs up trouble and the people wanted to kill him. When he goes to the temple he does not do so to worship or sacrifice but He goes to drive out the corrupt people of organized religion who were ripping off the people for their own profit. Jesus constantly took stands against religion.

Rather than gather at a synagogue or in the temple, Jesus gathered with his disciples in the open, alongside lakes and rivers and in the cool forest. If he were here today he would not be found in church but in the woods, or in Central Park, or hitch-hiking. Jesus was a man of the open fields and deserts not the inside of synagogues. He rejected the rules of organized religion and loosed people from their bondage. When the religious people wanted to condemn rule-breakers he never condemned them but believed in them, forgave them and defended them. He spent most of His time hanging around with sinners not with religious people. His values weren’t rules and regulations but simple loving relationships—just being with people and caring for them—this is what Jesus was all about.

But most important, Jesus showed us a new way of relating to God—we could “go direct” to God and cut out the middlemen of priests, religious leaders and religion itself. He taught us we don’t need church or religion to get to God but can get everything we need directly from God on our own—by listening to God’s still small voice inside us. Jesus went often away alone to pray or meditate in the open. This is how to find God—get away by yourself not go to a building sponsored by some organized religion. God is inside us and if we slip away we can hear Him speak.

It is no wonder that they killed Jesus for this. He was a threat to organized religion and their priests. What He intended to launch was a simple association of loving people who “do life together”—He never started a formal religion. Unfortunately after He was gone His followers begin making a religion out of Jesus’ emphasis on relationships. Eventually when the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity it drove the final nail in the coffin of what He started—gone was the simple emphasis on relational intimacy with God and all that was left was dead formal organized religion. Ever since we’ve had mostly formal religion instead of a simple personal relationship with God.

But there is hope. Recently there is an emerging re-emphasis on this true inner spirituality. It may be a revival and could be as significant as the Reformation—indeed some are calling it a “new reformation.” This new revival has nothing to do with organized religion or churches or institutions—it is about spirituality. One third of Americans now are committed to this new kind of spirituality. It is spirituality without the church, relationship without religion. It is sweeping the nation as people turn inward and tune into the revolutionary voice of God inside them as people follow a revolutionary Jesus bent on overthrowing religion. This new independent personal spirituality is practiced alone, or with a few friends in the park or at a back yard cookout. It is doing life together seeking the overthrow of dead formal structures of. Today’s religious people in churches are no better then the religious leaders of Jesus’ day—the church mostly just gets in the way of the real thing: a personal relationship between one person and one God.”

Viraljimmy
2005-11-11, 12:36
I approve.

theBishop
2005-11-11, 14:43
For the most part, that is how i view my faith. However, your quote there seems to neglect the fact that Jesus said he was god.

John 8:57-58 - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

[This message has been edited by theBishop (edited 11-11-2005).]

Snoopy
2005-11-11, 15:30
lol, Jesus lied about his age. What a prick.

jsaxton14
2005-11-11, 16:21
Regarding a personal relationship with God, I just submitted a question to Christdot asking about this. It got rejected, but I see no reason not to post it here, as it is somewhat relevant to the discussion:

EDIT: I emailed the Christdot admin, asking if he would refer me to a forum where asking such a question would be appropriate. He then put my article on the front page of Christdot. It can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/8yjsh

As I understand it, nearly every major Christian denomination believes that an intimate relationship with God is fundamental. This seems pretty simple at first, but I decided to do some research just to make sure I understood everything properly, and it turned out that this relationship is more complicated than I had originally thought. According to Scripture, God desires several types of relationships with us. I'll outline the major ones below:

1: Father-Son

"Become you therefore perfect, even as YOUR FATHER in heaven is perfect." (Matt. 5:48)

2: Master-Servant

"You call me MASTER, and Lord: and you say well, for so I am" (John 13:13)

3: Friendship

"Judas, not Iscariot, said to him, Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world? Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will COME TO HIM. and MAKE OUR ABODE WITH HIM" (John 14:22-23)

"And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the FRIEND OF GOD" (James 2:23)

I think after reading the scripture above, it is not unreasonable to deduce that God wants those three types of relationships with us. Then again, understanding the type of relationship God wants with you is one thing. Actually implementing such a relationship is an entirely different matter.

I suppose the Master-Servant relationship is the simplest to implement. You do what God tells you to do. Some would claim that this simply involves following the Word of God, etc. Others would claim that God actually talks to them and tells them to do stuff. This is where the whole idea of a relationship with God gets really blurry in my mind. Relationships, especially friendship, require communication.

This begs the question "how does one communicate with God?" The standard (and Biblical) answer is through prayer. You pray to God, for whatever reason, and God hears your prayers. This makes sense to me. God is omnipotent, and he can "hear" prayers regardless of whether you mumble your prayers, pray in some obscure dialect of Urdu, or even just "think" your prayers.

The problem comes when one asks "how does God communicate with us?" God has never spoken to me. Then again, speech isn't the only mode of communication. When I went to Church, I often heard people saying, "Oh, God is doing X in my life, it's amazing," and "I think God is trying to tell me this." A friend of mine (a devout Christian) claims this is unbiblical. Apparently God only spoke to Jesus once, never gave Jesus "signs," or really communicated with him at all. One could claim that God communicates to us through his word, but I feel this argument falls apart when one looks at the types of relationships God desires to have with us. Can I have an intimate relationship with Arwen by simply reading LoTR too many times? Of course not.

So I guess I understand the concept of a relationship with God. I guess my question is two-fold. Firstly, does God communicate with us? Secondly, if this is the case, how so? If this is not the case, how is a relationship with God possible?

[This message has been edited by jsaxton14 (edited 11-11-2005).]

Nidias_91
2005-11-11, 18:29
What's the best way to piss of the pope?

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Remind him that gods only son was a Jew.

Nidias_91
2005-11-11, 18:30
quote:Originally posted by imperfectcircle:

But most important, Jesus showed us a new way of relating to God—we could “go direct” to God and cut out the middlemen of priests, religious leaders and religion itself. He taught us we don’t need church or religion to get to God but can get everything we need directly from God on our own—by listening to God’s still small voice inside us. Jesus went often away alone to pray or meditate in the open. This is how to find God—get away by yourself not go to a building sponsored by some organized religion. God is inside us and if we slip away we can hear Him speak



Fucking idiot, why is it still standard to go to church, and give them money. Christianity in the church is total bullshit, it's just as good to worship God at your HOME.

ArgonPlasma2000
2005-11-11, 18:40
quote:Originally posted by Nidias_91:

Fucking idiot, why is it still standard to go to church, and give them money. Christianity in the church is total bullshit, it's just as good to worship God at your HOME.



Hebrews sez "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves."

Fucking heathens.

imperfectcircle
2005-11-12, 12:52
quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

For the most part, that is how i view my faith. However, your quote there seems to neglect the fact that Jesus said he was god.

John 8:57-58 - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Did Jesus write a single word of the Bible himself?

Atomical
2005-11-12, 14:46
I don't think anyone who believes in God is going to get a free ticket into heaven either.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Paradise Lost
2005-11-12, 14:57
quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

For the most part, that is how i view my faith. However, your quote there seems to neglect the fact that Jesus said he was god.

John 8:57-58 - Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Could it not have been altered... among other explanations.