i was asking some holy kid at college today and thats what he told me.

is this true? seems pretty stupid to me.

quote:Originally posted by Curry:

i was asking some holy kid at college today and thats what he told me.

is this true? seems pretty stupid to me.

Nope. Jesus said NO MAN, Comes to the father BUT BY ME. Jesus is the mediator between man and God, Jesus is our way to God, and NO MAN comes to God but by Jesus the Christ. The Messiah, Emmanuel. NO MAN comes to God but by the Son! If haven't accepted Jesus as Lord of your life, and you die in your sins, you're going to hell. People can't say they're going to hell because they didn't know, they did know. Jesus told them approx. 2000 years ago. For those that might claim they don't know. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY THE SON.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Nope. Jesus said NO MAN, Comes to the father BUT BY ME. Jesus is the mediator between man and God, Jesus is our way to God, and NO MAN comes to God but by Jesus the Christ. The Messiah, Emmanuel. NO MAN comes to God but by the Son! If haven't accepted Jesus as Lord of your life, and you die in your sins, you're going to hell. People can't say they're going to hell because they didn't know, they did know. Jesus told them approx. 2000 years ago. For those that might claim they don't know. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY THE SON.

And our reasons for believing Jesus' story? Because it says in his book that he's God? I'll be sure to whip a book off, so in 2000 years people think I'm God.

@Curry: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it does, which I find rather ironic since the Bible just so happens to include the Jewish holy book. And if this was true, wouldn't every single person ever born before Jesus have gone to Hell? I dunno, I think it's a pretty bogus rule.

Hmm yes, lets believe a book writen 2000 years ago, and translated into tons of different languages before english. Lets believe a book in which any one of the people who translated it into english could have changed whatever they wanted.

Lets believe a person who has no living eye witnesses.

Lets believe my great grandfather came out of his grave days after his death.

Lets believe that the earth is the center of the universe!

Hey, lets go kick that Capernicus' ass!

(Loads of spelling errors, WOOT WOOT!)

quote:Originally posted by Cpt.Winters:

Hmm yes, lets believe a book writen 2000 years ago, and translated into tons of different languages before english. Lets believe a book in which any one of the people who translated it into english could have changed whatever they wanted.

Lets believe a person who has no living eye witnesses.

Lets believe my great grandfather came out of his grave days after his death.

Lets believe that the earth is the center of the universe!

Hey, lets go kick that Capernicus' ass!

(Loads of spelling errors, WOOT WOOT!)

We have no proof that Cleopatra was a real person. She lived even before Christ, yet Im assuming you say the history books are correct...

Point is simply: Yes, the Bible says all other religions go to Hell.

I guess.

My history book also says Hitler existed, but we've never found his corpse.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

We have no proof that Cleopatra was a real person. She lived even before Christ, yet Im assuming you say the history books are correct...

Even ignoring archeological evidence, you're still wrong.

www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/cleopatra_vii.htm (http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/cleopatra_vii.htm)

So what proof do you have that jesus is the only path to god?

Sounds like a statement of hubris to me

The way I see it there is no distinct heaven and hell, noone is either all good or all bad. There are plenty of "good" people that do not believe in God, or are of a different religion etc. Yes, I believe that only people who accept Christ and follow Him will be able to get into the highest kingdom of God, but I also believe that people who don't won't necessarily burn for all eternity. In fact, noone that came to Earth will go to the depths of Hell simply because of the fact that they are here in the first place. The only people going there are the sons of perdition, the fallen angels that followed Lucifer in the beginning.

More on topic, the Bible does make references to this fact, that people who don't follow Christ will go to Hell. But also, the Bible has been altered, mainly by the Catholic church when they had complete control over it. And they don't even follow everything in the Bible, how ironic.

That's my opinion, and I don't expect others to agree with me nor will I impose it. I guess I'm just weird.

Could you explain the "highest kingdom of god" more thoroughly?

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

Could you explain the "highest kingdom of god" more thoroughly?

OK, in my religion we believe that there are three major kingdoms of heaven. The first, the Celestial Kingdom, is where God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost reside. People who lived lives following the teachings of God and are baptized can attain this. The second is the Terrestial Kingdom. Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost can be here, but God cannot as it is a lower glory. Here is where all the "good" people go, but who did not accept God and Christ. The lowest is the Terrestial Kingdom, which is where the people who did not accept Christ and who were generally bad people go. Only the Holy Ghost is able to visit here. Within each kingdom there are levels according to what kind of a person you were within these areas. One can progress in each kingdom once there, but cannot move from one kingdom to the next. What makes the lower ones a hell is that you know how much better you could have achieved, rather than your surroundings actually tormenting you. As for the actual hell, only the sons of perdition go there. Those who followed Lucifer from the beginning, as well as those who deny Christ with a full knowledge of Him, which obviously isn't going to be a whole lot of people.

Anyways, this is a whole lot more than I intended to write, but you can find references to it in Corinthians. Feel free to criticize or comment, though constructive would be good.

That concept sounds alright, a bit of carrot and stick but I'm sure that those who did not accept god wouldn't really mind being fairly distant from it anyway.

Could you explain to me the difference between "carnal" and "spiritual" knowledge, I've heard shelly ramble on on about it.

That is a good question. Spiritual knowledge is having faith enough that you truly know what you believe is true. This can lead to a carnal knowledge of what you believe, i.e. in the case of visions and such. However I think this is quite rare. Carnal knowledge is what you see and feel with your body, that requires no believing. Although this is also quite interesting, how can we be sure that what we see and feel is actually real? Everything we know is what is interpreted through our senses....however I am getting a bit off-topic.

ah, well then I'll probablly never experience spiritual knowledge because I'm aware of my flaws and various doctrines flaws and I'm not sure that I can believe so strongly that I know what I believe is the truth, especially when those beliefs come from an outside source whose credibillity I doubt. Well at least I'll get to hang with my heros in the middle heaven.

I didn't say that spiritual knowledge was required for the highest kingdom, I think you misread me. Everyone has flaws, even the people who attain the highest glory. Very few people ever have full spiritual knowledge, and I don't pretend to have that myself.

but I have to be baptized right?

Yes, however I also think that this does not have to be done on earth. For those who do not get baptized on earth there still is a way. My church does baptisms for the dead, for people who were not baptized during their lives. We can be baptized in the name of that person. If those whom the service is being done for choose to accept this, then they can achieve the highest kingdom.

I'm sorry if this isn't very clear, it's 5 am and I'm kind of tired.

It's pretty clear, Nice faith, All the best.

I appreciate that you respect it, unlike some who would just try and tear it down.

I learned a thing called religious tolerance a while back.

Well me and you are following different paths to higher self. I need less guidance on the matter but I can understand your need for it.

According to the Bible(by which I mean the Hebrew Tanakh, since christianity is founded on the New Testament) Virtuous Gentiles can go to heaven. Being Jewish is in no way a gurauntee of going to Heaven, and theoretically Jews and Gentiles have an even chance of going to Heaven. It is based on Good Deads, not 'correct' belief.

quote:Originally posted by literary syphilis:

Even ignoring archeological evidence, you're still wrong.

ww w.tyndale. cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/cleopatra_vii.htm (http: //www.tynd ale.cam.ac .uk/Egypt/ ptolemies/ cleopatra_ vii.htm)

Apparently, you cant read, quite literally, BETWEEN THE (quote) LINES.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

We have no proof that Cleopatra was a real person. She lived even before Christ, yet Im assuming you say the history books are correct...

Point is simply: Yes, the Bible says all other religions go to Hell.

Yes but the Ancient Greek Books did not make a herd of dumb sheep-people believing in things such as god. The Ancient Literature did not give people orders, they were just observations of the current life.

However, the Bible is propaganda. That is the difference.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Nope. Jesus said NO MAN, Comes to the father BUT BY ME. Jesus is the mediator between man and God, Jesus is our way to God, and NO MAN comes to God but by Jesus the Christ. The Messiah, Emmanuel. NO MAN comes to God but by the Son! If haven't accepted Jesus as Lord of your life, and you die in your sins, you're going to hell. People can't say they're going to hell because they didn't know, they did know. Jesus told them approx. 2000 years ago. For those that might claim they don't know. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY THE SON.

A homeless guy said that same thing to me about himself. So I asked him to ask God what the lotto numbers for this week will be, he said 3 23 33 36 and 29. Then he said the force is with you.

Well according to History there was a Jesus and there was also a Muhammed(sp?). Its whether you choose to belive that they were what they said they are.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Apparently, you cant read, quite literally, BETWEEN THE (quote) LINES.

What lines, buddy? You're wrong. That's all there is to it.