Many discussions I've had about Christianity (both in favor of and against the creed) has usually reverted to differences in translation. I was curious as to whether or not anyone had any particularly useful resources in discovering the hidden linguistic content of the Bible in an interpretive and concise format?

For example, in a debate between atheist Dan Barker and creationist Michael Horner, Barker explains that the Greek word Paul uses to describe the Resurrection - "egeiro," from the verb "egergetai" - is the same word that's used when the disciples woke Jesus up while he slept in the bottom of a ship in Matthew 8. "Egergetai" means "to awaken" or "to wake up." The word for resurrection in the form most fitting for the Greek context of summoning from the dead is "anastasis" [noun] or "anistimi" [verb].

I'm looking for more little linguistic facts like that. Any takers?

Either way, He was dead. So whether He woke up or was resurcted from the dead is pretty semantical, no?

Nope. "Egeiro" is used in the New Testament most often to determine a spiritual awakening, as well as a physical one.

Now is the time to awaken [egeiro] out of sleep.

-Romans 13:11

Awake [Egeiro] thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

-Ephesians 5:14

Also, Jews of that particular time referred to Gentiles and others who did not believe in the Jewish religion as being "dead," and those within the teachings of the temple were considered "alive." So, there are some interpretations that say that Jesus (and Lazarus before him) actually went through an initiation ritual through their proverbial "deaths" and "rebirths."

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 11-19-2005).]

"After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."

John 11:11-16



On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!

Sanhedrin 43a



http://www.unlimitedglory.org/txtreality.html

Does the direct wording even matter, as the text has been reprinted for over 1000 years?

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

The word for resurrection in the form most fitting for the Greek context of summoning from the dead is "anastasis" [noun] or "anistimi" [verb].

I'm looking for more little linguistic facts like that. Any takers?

Corection:"Anestis", or at least thats how Ive heard it pronounced by many greeks during Greek Easter...yea im bored.

hyroglyphx:

"After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."

John 11:11-16

1. The only gospels that contain any account of Lazarus are Luke (written in 85 AD, fifty-two years post-crucifixion) and John (written in 95 AD, sixty-two years post-crucifixion). They are the two gospels published farthest from Christ's death chronologically (barring only Peter's apocryphal gospel, which doesn't mention Lazarus anyway). They contain more miracles attributed to Jesus than any of them, least of all the earliest account (Paul), who depicts absolutely zero miracles. Just to clarify a point.

2. The confusion of the context of words such as "dead" and "asleep" in the English edition of the Bible is precisely why I'm interested in reading and researching the Bible in the original languages.

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!

Sanhedrin 43a

I'm unfamiliar with this text. Any other info on it you can provide?

Boblong:

The Vatican has a codex of Scriptures that date to 100 AD at its earliest, which contains all the books of the contemporary English Bible, from which various publishers acquire their references. Being reprinted for over one thousand years means little if the same template is being used.

rastapimp:

I'm no Greek scholar, but it's possible that "anastasis," "anistimi," and "anestis" are all different conjugations of the same basic term.

[EDIT: had to weed out erroneous information]

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 11-20-2005).]

1. John's gospel, written in 95 AD (sixty-two years after the Crucifixion, for those keeping count), contained eight more miracles than Paul's gospel contained (written forty years prior to John's).

Paul's gospel? There are four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Paul wrote epistles concerning edification of the saints.

Paul's gospel, chronologically the closest published account of the Crucifixion, depicts Christ performing a grand total of zero miracles.

Paul on the road to Damascus, himself, experienced a miracle.

2. The confusion of the context of words such as "dead" and "asleep" in the English edition of the Bible is precisely why I'm interested in reading and researching the Bible in the original languages.

That's why I have a concordance. It will give you the original Greek and Hebrew. It's a very good tool.

I'm unfamiliar with this text. Any other info on it you can provide?

It's from the Babylonian Talmud: I assume you are repudiating the claims of Jesus' miracles. But here is the recording of his death by the one's who handed Him over to the Romans. Notice that His charge was 'sorcery'. That means, Jesus was doing some crazy things, but they believed that it was from Satan.

"Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?” But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.” And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.” Mt 12:22-32



http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_43.html



The Vatican has a codex of Scriptures that date to 100 AD at its earliest, which contains all the books of the contemporary English Bible, from which various publishers acquire their references. Being reprinted for over one thousand years means little if the same template is being used.

The final source for what was Scripture and what was not from God was surmised at the council of Nicea. Many Gnostic texts came into the forefront and the people had to discern what was from God and what was from man.

rastapimp[/i]:I'm no Greek scholar, but it's possible that "anastasis," "anistimi," and "anestis" are all different conjugations of the same basic term.

Sure, anything is possible. But what is plausible holds more weight.