who beleives in it and why do you beleive?

I don't believe in it...but my sister does. She has a pretty interesting view as well.

She says that it could vary well be possible. She was explaining to me how she has these dreams sometimes like she's inside that person that the story is about, but it isn't her..kind of. It's hard to explain I suppose, an example she had one where she was in the war against the Nazi's and she had to lie on the ground on her back to pretend she was dead as they walked through and she explained that it felt extreamly real, she could smell the death around her. Then an SS put a gun to her head and pulled the triger and she woke up right before it happend, she has dreams like that a lot. She also has four very close friends that she believes are friends from a past life, they have had experiances.

Then again she believes in fairies. She said that Kind Authors mom was a Fairy and that he wasn't really dead he went to live with his life in fairyland. I guess I can't say much, anything could be possible.

[This message has been edited by sylph (edited 11-24-2005).]

Is a farry a fairy?

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Is a farry a fairy?

Fairy*

quote:Originally posted by sylph:



Then again she believes in farries. She said that Kind Authors mom was a Farry and that he wasn't really dead he went to live with his life in farryland. I guess I can't say much, anything could be possible. Then again I'm Athiest, which she thinks is very ignorant of me. Anyways. There you go.



Im aithiest too but that doesnt have anything to do with reincarnation

quote:Originally posted by HAND:



Im aithiest too but that doesnt have anything to do with reincarnation



i don't think so mate.

you are not an atheist if you believe in reincarnation. so how exactly does this information get to the next thing you happen to turn out as?

its like saying crystals are "medicine"

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

you are not an atheist if you believe in reincarnation. so how exactly does this information get to the next thing you happen to turn out as?

its like saying crystals are "medicine"

Uh... atheism entails you don't believe in any supreme beings, you can still believe in the metaphysical. You just wouldn't be a materialist.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

i don't think so mate.

you are not an atheist if you believe in reincarnation. so how exactly does this information get to the next thing you happen to turn out as?

its like saying crystals are "medicine"



Sorry but your wrong. Aithiesm means you dont beleive in a god. Just read a little

I don't believe in reincarnation. I know it for a fact.

When you sluff the mortal coil (ie: die) your "soul" (hereafter referred to as "self") is no longer bound and limited to the flesh and it's 5 sensory input methods. At this time, the self makes one of three choices, based on the sum accumulation of experiences/lessons from all of it's many "lives". These choices are:

1.) Merge with the Great Divine, no longer a drop cast from the ocean, but a part of the great ocean again reunited, there to mingle and merge and cease having it's own "identity" for it no longer needs such things, it is united with all.

2.) Return to flesh to accumulate more experiences/lessons, or to help others by providing guidance or obstacles to overcome (by prior arrangement with the others, often leading to close bonds or draws to the other individuals in the new life of flesh...Some selves walk together through many lifetimes, which leads many to the mistaken notion of "soul-mates".)

3.) If the self is unable to let go of some worldly thing (a place, a person, a rage/sadness/etc at a deed) they linger and obsess over that thing and become "ghosts" until such time as they are able to let go of it and carry on with their progression.

Before you ask, I know because I've been there, and unlike most, I recall it fairly clearly. Most don't carry conscious remembrance of the between with them into the new mortal coil, but a rare few do...it is at times very difficult for the conscious human part of the brain to grasp it, and that is why we typically shut it off from ourselves when we reincarnate...it's harder to live a normal life when you remember what it's like to turn away from Divinity and choose a mortal coil to walk in again...no matter why you chose it.

Everyone ideally goes to "Heaven"...but some will fail, due to their inability to learn, or to let go of worldly temporal things..."Ghosts" are a terribly sad thing.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

i don't think so mate.

you are not an atheist if you believe in reincarnation. so how exactly does this information get to the next thing you happen to turn out as?

its like saying crystals are "medicine"

He never actually said he believed in it, he was asking if anybody else did.

Note: I was just saying I was, not really trying to make it relative to what you had said http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

I'm a big fan of reincarnation. I'm just sort of thinking, damn there has to be something else out there. Things just can't stop and stuff.

Also other reasons too but you know. But yeah I believe in it.

quote:Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:

I don't believe in reincarnation. I know it for a fact.

When you sluff the mortal coil (ie: die) your "soul" (hereafter referred to as "self") is no longer bound and limited to the flesh and it's 5 sensory input methods. At this time, the self makes one of three choices, based on the sum accumulation of experiences/lessons from all of it's many "lives". These choices are:

1.) Merge with the Great Divine, no longer a drop cast from the ocean, but a part of the great ocean again reunited, there to mingle and merge and cease having it's own "identity" for it no longer needs such things, it is united with all.

2.) Return to flesh to accumulate more experiences/lessons, or to help others by providing guidance or obstacles to overcome (by prior arrangement with the others, often leading to close bonds or draws to the other individuals in the new life of flesh...Some selves walk together through many lifetimes, which leads many to the mistaken notion of "soul-mates".)

3.) If the self is unable to let go of some worldly thing (a place, a person, a rage/sadness/etc at a deed) they linger and obsess over that thing and become "ghosts" until such time as they are able to let go of it and carry on with their progression.

Before you ask, I know because I've been there, and unlike most, I recall it fairly clearly. Most don't carry conscious remembrance of the between with them into the new mortal coil, but a rare few do...it is at times very difficult for the conscious human part of the brain to grasp it, and that is why we typically shut it off from ourselves when we reincarnate...it's harder to live a normal life when you remember what it's like to turn away from Divinity and choose a mortal coil to walk in again...no matter why you chose it.

Everyone ideally goes to "Heaven"...but some will fail, due to their inability to learn, or to let go of worldly temporal things..."Ghosts" are a terribly sad thing.



so, you're a crazy deluded idiot like the rest, i give up.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:



so, you're a crazy deluded idiot like the rest, i give up.



Believe as you choose, Ace. I'm not here to please you.

Using your logic ChaosWorm any person who sees things that don't exist could prove they exist.

I dunno, I have this stupid theory that allows for secular reincarnation, sort of. Basically, I believe that there is an infinite amount of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. Stuff explodes, gets pulled back together, and so on and so forth. Forever. An infinite amount of times. But wait... suppose the same atoms and energy that make you up right now were tossed back together again. You'd be you! Sure this is astonishingly improbable, but there's an infinite number of chances! There's probably some gaping hole in this theory, but I don't know it yet.

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Using your logic ChaosWorm any person who sees things that don't exist could prove they exist.

That's where you're wrong.

See, I'm not the only one who has seen it, so it's no more "non-existant" than something not everyone sees but a few did.

For example: If you happen to see a friend of yours pull off a once in a life-time lucky shot with a basketball in a game of HORSE, and only you, them, and two other friends see it...then the guy who performed it dies...the only "proof" you have that it happened is that you remember it, and two other people remember it and can corroborate your experience...All three of you are otherwise rational, and the stories match up sufficiently to indicate they are not fabrication or imagination....

Unless it was a shared delusion...

How do you prove your memory is real?

There is a difference between psychosis and simply remembering things that others do not...If someone celebrates their 100th birthday and tells tales of their childhood memories (which are off the record type personal memories), do you expect them to "prove" those memories are real just because you don't know anyone else who remembers them too? Or do you assume they are insane?

Your logic is flawed, and you bias it towards trying to make me look bad and label me aberrant. I am not psychotic, I don't see things that aren't there, and I am a rational, intelligent person with a firm grounding in facts and a desire for corroborating evidence for things which I "accept" as real. There is no probable and logical explanation to discount my experiences and memories, as it is too selective to be a dementia by product...That leaves, as the most probable reasons: 1.) It is an accurate and valid memory, or 2.) It is the result of dreams within the womb...The second option is even less probable due to the fact that I barely remember any of the dreams I have had during the rest of my life, why would that one be any different?

You don't have to believe it, I'm not needing to prove it to you...I simply shared what I know beyond a shadow of doubt. No human being can sway that, not any more so than any human being could convince you that you are in fact, at this moment, being eaten by the Loch Ness monster.





[This message has been edited by ChaosWyrm (edited 12-02-2005).]

all i can say is this.....

everything in this world seems to be dependant on everything else.....

every action .....seems to lead on to another situation........

the bottom line is ......we appear to be energy.

energy can not be destroyed or created...

a small baby grows into a large man.

by changing energy from plants and meat...into growing of the baby.

a sapling grows into an enormous tree.

by changing energy from the sun and rain into ....the growing of the tree.

when the tree dies it starts to rot...

ie it becomes energy for insects and bacteria.

it just changes form..

im sure that when a human dies we are 'eaten' by an appropriate medium.

our skin goes to the maggots.

our fluid goes to the soil.

and it goes around again.

it becomes part of something else

the big question is ........'what about the soul'

in my brief existance ......i have never experienced that which people call a soul.

i have experienced the mind......but not the soul

so for me the mind stops at death.

there must be a reaction for the action of death.

that reaction may be life.

its very confusing .........but i really dont know what i am talking about....

just like the rest of you.

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

all i can say is this.....

everything in this world seems to be dependant on everything else.....

every action .....seems to lead on to another situation........

the bottom line is ......we appear to be energy.

energy can not be destroyed or created...

a small baby grows into a large man.

by changing energy from plants and meat...into growing of the baby.

a sapling grows into an enormous tree.

by changing energy from the sun and rain into ....the growing of the tree.

when the tree dies it starts to rot...

ie it becomes energy for insects and bacteria.

it just changes form..

im sure that when a human dies we are 'eaten' by an appropriate medium.

our skin goes to the maggots.

our fluid goes to the soil.

and it goes around again.

it becomes part of something else

the big question is ........'what about the soul'

in my brief existance ......i have never experienced that which people call a soul.

i have experienced the mind......but not the soul

so for me the mind stops at death.

there must be a reaction for the action of death.

that reaction may be life.

its very confusing .........but i really dont know what i am talking about....

just like the rest of you.

Maybe you go through a cycle and become the energy of the maggots next egg then living through the fly it eventually creates an energy source for lets say a frog and soon your a tadpole. Is that what you mean? I beleive something similiar do to energy discpersion and the fact that a completley new and dramatically different consience and personality being created every time sounds improbbile to me. Think about it. Those traits (soul) might be nature recycling "vessel pilots"



[This message has been edited by HAND (edited 12-03-2005).]

The energy that is "Us" carries on, but the question is whether or not this energy still has awareness, or is the awareness that we have is only possible through senses and a brain.

Maybe what we consider to be "us" is a product of energy in this particular form.

A few questions for ChaosWyrm:

When you died did you see other souls floating around? If so, did you talk to them, and could you talk to them if you wanted to?

Did you ever experience being a ghost?

What did you see and feel? Could you see the normal world? Did you just see familiar places or could you go anywhere you wanted?

I'm not trying to trip you up or anything, I'm just curious.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

A few questions for ChaosWyrm:

When you died did you see other souls floating around? If so, did you talk to them, and could you talk to them if you wanted to?



I saw all souls, whether incarnated or disincarnated...

"talking" is not something one does or needs to do as a disincarnate soul between lives. Information is shared in pure form without the limitations of words and languages.

Incarnated souls were separated from the free flow of information by their mortal coils, but could be observed/percieved...

Disincarnated souls share a connection with eachother and incarnated souls, and to a degree have virtual omniscience (not total, but nearly) if they are able to fully shrug off the mortal fetters from the life they are leaving and stop identifying with it as "them" in total...Once the soul recognizes itself for what it is, it has a relatively short "time" before it either re-incarnates, or chooses to merge with the divine...I put "time" in quotes, because time as we know it in life does not exist or work the same way after death...(it is actually possible to reincarnate into a lifetime before your last incarnation was born, strange as that may sound)...discarnate souls don't dally to chat, they exchange the necessary information to reincarnate and to ensure all agreements are made for the next life's path, then get about their business...

Being in the "between" is not like a coffee shop for souls to hang out and prattle about the weather, it is simply about making choice and moving on.

quote:

Did you ever experience being a ghost?



Not personally, but I have left ghosts in my wake...this is a bit hard to explain, but it is one of the reasons I chose to continue to reincarnate as opposed to joining the divine, and part of why I retain the memory.

I came back for those I left behind...See, a couple of lifetimes, I did not live up to my promises and obligations to others that were arranged prior to incarnating together...in life, I became obsessed with power and control, and I twisted the agreements and drastically affected several other souls. Some were left broken and with no other purpose but to finish a goal I had set for them, and they continue, as ghosts, trying to complete the impossible tasks that were set...Others, took those tasks into new lives as twisted "lessons" and "karmic burdons"...the ghosts are the easier ones to free...the twisted incarnations have consumed much more time.

quote:What did you see and feel? Could you see the normal world? Did you just see familiar places or could you go anywhere you wanted?

"see" and "feel"...nothing and everything. All of the world we live in is simply a perception matrix (not the same as the movie), it exists as a vehicle for incarnations to sort out things...(hard to explain in human language at this point, please bear with me)...So, by being separated from the limitations of the mortal coil's window into the matrix, a soul is privvy to the whole picture from a limited omniscient point of view...like the difference between reading a book written in first person limited and then switching to a book written in third person omniscient...

However, "concerns" and things you consider important now are different once you sluff the coil...You could go anywhere you wanted, if you chose to focus down, but it's not important at that time to do something so limiting, you are virtually everywhere already. If one did have an inkling to, yes a discarnate soul could go anywhere it chose and even manifest a physical "body" to interact with the perception matrix in a meaningful way for a short term before it lost interest in this kind of behavior and got on about it's business of choosing...

(interesting side note: Read deeply into the story of Jesus' resurrection and his interactions with his apostles...He had a few bits of business before he moved on to join the divine, so seems to have done precisely what I mentioned above...)

quote:I'm not trying to trip you up or anything, I'm just curious.

Not a problem.

I only wish I could be more clear...even to be able to simply transfer the knowledge straight from my knowing to yours in pure information, the way discarnate's communicate...but that is still beyond my capability in this coil, perhaps for a reason, self imposed, after past abuse of overt power to do something very much like that.

"See, I'm not the only one who has seen it, so it's no more "non-existant" than something not everyone sees but a few did."

I'm sure many crazies would agree on seeing CIA agents trailing them, a few people seeing/remembering something does not make it truth.

"All three of you are otherwise rational, and the stories match up sufficiently to indicate they are not fabrication or imagination...."

A lucky shot and reincarnation don't really compare well. First off, your analogy would require several people with common stories about a specific event involving eachother. For instance, two people remembering their wedding together which only they knew about.

Memory is a very maleable thing and peer suggestion can change or create a memory.

"How do you prove your memory is real?"

I don't and wouldn't make extrordinary claims and act as if my memory was evidence.

"being eaten by the Loch Ness monster.

I could be convinced of that given enough evidence, that would just never happen.

Yeah, i believe in it.

Mostly because i have very vivid dreams of living past lives as a human.

My most recent:

All of this dream was in the first person view. I was in some sort of warehouse, when all of a sudden, I was stabbed by a man I think was a mentor of mine. I could feel the knife in my diaphragm, wrenching about as he tried to kill me. When I didn't die, he said "Time for you to have one last cigarette." we proceeded up a flight of stairs, to the roof and I lit a smoke. I had blurring vision and I could still feel the sharp pain in my abdomen. Then I woke up.

Dont forget about the animal realm.

Yes I believe in reincarnation, having to come here only once seems too much like good luck.

quote:Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:

2.) Return to flesh to accumulate more experiences/lessons, or to help others by providing guidance or obstacles to overcome (by prior arrangement with the others, often leading to close bonds or draws to the other individuals in the new life of flesh...Some selves walk together through many lifetimes, which leads many to the mistaken notion of "soul-mates".)

So I can rape, drown myself in the seven deadly sins , murder those I hate, kidnap and torture those I detest and when I die I can hit the replay button? Hmmm... I might have to seriously revise my negative views on reincarnation.

Hey Chaos, I think I've just found my first pebble!

quote:Originally posted by sylph:

I don't believe in it...but my sister does. She has a pretty interesting view as well.

She says that it could vary well be possible. She was explaining to me how she has these dreams sometimes like she's inside that person that the story is about, but it isn't her..kind of. It's hard to explain I suppose, an example she had one where she was in the war against the Nazi's and she had to lie on the ground on her back to pretend she was dead as they walked through and she explained that it felt extreamly real, she could smell the death around her. Then an SS put a gun to her head and pulled the triger and she woke up right before it happend, she has dreams like that a lot. She also has four very close friends that she believes are friends from a past life, they have had experiances.

Then again she believes in fairies. She said that Kind Authors mom was a Fairy and that he wasn't really dead he went to live with his life in fairyland. I guess I can't say much, anything could be possible.



your sister sounds like an idiot

quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:

Yes I believe in reincarnation, having to come here only once seems too much like good luck.

So I can rape, drown myself in the seven deadly sins , murder those I hate, kidnap and torture those I detest and when I die I can hit the replay button? Hmmm... I might have to seriously revise my negative views on reincarnation.

Hey Chaos, I think I've just found my first pebble!





Pretty much. It's not exactly a "replay" button though, but you're close.

I'm glad you found a pebble http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

^ Yes, pretty much. Ideally, however, as one evolves spiritually, one realizes that we are all in fact One, and that murder and such is not in anyone's best interest.

Besides, there are still the consequences in this life to consider.

ChoasWyrm, what exactly was you 'experience'. It all intregues me. Tell me more..

I like the idea of reincarnation and growing spiritually with each turn, but. I don't like the idea of loosing the memory of the lives i have previously led. How can we truely "grow" if we don't retain the knowledge we have previously gained?

quote:Originally posted by Source:

I like the idea of reincarnation and growing spiritually with each turn, but. I don't like the idea of loosing the memory of the lives i have previously led. How can we truely "grow" if we don't retain the knowledge we have previously gained?

I think what he was saying was that we retain the lessons from our past lives, and forget the rest.