How do you know everything in the bible is correct? Where does it even say that in the bible?

if it wasn't true, why would people still be talking about it? 2000 years later? and why would the book still be the most popular/mass-printed book?

obviously, it has some significance.

Lets say you lined loads and loads of people up across say.... America from lets say... California to New York, then lets say you started a simple sentence like... My friend invited me to a party.

What are the odds that this sentence will still be the same when it gets to new york? I guarantee half the tits in the line would change it.

So what makes you think it would be any different with 2000 years of history passed down from generation to generation?

I may have said this before, but who cares...

quote:Originally posted by Source:

Lets say you lined loads and loads of people up across say.... America from lets say... California to New York, then lets say you started a simple sentence like... My friend invited me to a party.

What are the odds that this sentence will still be the same when it gets to new york? I guarantee half the tits in the line would change it.

So what makes you think it would be any different with 2000 years of history passed down from generation to generation?

I may have said this before, but who cares...

Except its like a handful of people. Your simply kidding yourself if you think its that many.

Besides, copying and remembering are two very different things.

Viral: We don't.

Yoda: People are still talking about the Vedas, which are older than the bible. I doubt many christians think they are true. Significance, yes, but significance doesn't mean it's true.

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

Viral: We don't.

Yoda: People are still talking about the Vedas, which are older than the bible. I doubt many christians think they are true. Significance, yes, but significance doesn't mean it's true.



People Follow the The Inspired Word of God.

Most countries overseas have revivals, because they WANT something REAL, and TRUE. They want Jesus, they WANT God. They desire Him. They were created to desire Him!

You're saved and have friends who claim atheism.. They watch you. They want and seek something real. They're BEGGING you NOT TO BE LIKE THE HYPOCRITES! They don't want you to be fake, they want you to be REAL.

People don't follow Greek mythology anymore either. Why? Christ was preached to the Gentiles, and the greeks were like, "Yeah, see! This is a LIVING GOD."

The Pharisees said in Acts, That if it was false it would die out, and it hasn't died out, and it NEVER WILL. God is the beginning, and the End, The First and The Last.

When God formed a covenant with Abram.. He found Him worshipping the stars, moon, and sun. The Very things God created, Abram worshipped. It didn't take him long to forsake what wasn't real, for what was. He did it instantly, and believed God fully and completely, enough to sacrifice His OWN SON, because he Trusted God enough to still believe and know He would make him the father of Many nations.

Vedas, Hindu's, Buddist,Muslims lack something Christianity has.. A resurrected Lord.

My heart cries out for you.. and those like you.. In anger, and in saddness. Sad because of your suffering, and bondage, anger, on count of how the Church has failed to represent God.. and has failed to be faithful to God, in reaching out to the lost, in LOVE.

I'd like to go out on the corners of streets saying, "I have what you want. I got what you need." With a box full of bibles.. "And it's free." There's MORE.. so much MORE.

I have this mindset.. Half of you already think I'm crazy because I am a Christian. I could careless about how much crazier you would percieve me with the things I say or do. I do love you all. I don't have to know you to love you.. You're human. If my God can love you enough to die for you, I can love you just as much, because My God does.



______

________

To the one who began this topic.

God isn't a liar, the Devil is, and the Father of it. The bible says, "I AM, the way the truth and the life." John 14:1&6. When God, (Christ, Jesus) would come to those under the OT He would say, "I AM." The pharisees wanted to stone Christ, When He said, "I AM, that I AM." I could preach a sermon. However, you asked for bible reference. There you have it.

quote:Originally posted by yoda_me07:

if it wasn't true, why would people still be talking about it? 2000 years later? and why would the book still be the most popular/mass-printed book?

obviously, it has some significance.



Not that I'm saying it's not true, but people still talk about all kinds of things that weren't true.

Cheers,

Lost

Wow what a load of self important preachy crap.

Error correction,

quote:Vedas, Hindu's, Buddist,Muslims lack something Christianity has.. A resurrected Lord.

The Vedas are the Hindu holy books, not a religion.

Hinduism: Hindu's believe in reincarnation, thus your resurrected lord isn't something special to them. Ironically Hindu's seek to reach nirvana where they will no longer be reincarnated.

Vishnu one of the Hindu Gods (depending on what type of hinduism) is said to take human form and come to earth as an avatar to lead the people, he has done this multiple times.

Buddhism: Buddhists also believe in reincarnation and a journey towards Nirvana. Although not God, a very intelligent figure in their beliefs, the Dali Lamma is believed to have been reincarnated at least 14 times and current Buddhists can talk with him.

In otherwords, compared to those beliefs, I would say that both religions find a God that came down as a human 2000 years ago, to be killed, then magically resurrected before vanishing too not only be familiar but rather boring and certain not something they lack or are craving in their own beliefs.



Ok, now back on topic.



[This message has been edited by Beta69 (edited 01-25-2006).]

There are certain themes that keep popping up in different religions, from the collective unconcious or whatever.

Because christianity was good at spreading and not going away, doesn't mean it's best or ultimately beneficial. Cockroaches and herpes do the same thing.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Except its like a handful of people. Your simply kidding yourself if you think its that many.

Besides, copying and remembering are two very different things.

It really doesn't matter. Until people stop hidding behind the excuse of god, we wont make any real progress here.

Originally posted by Beta69:

Wow what a load of self important preachy crap.

Error correction,

quote:Vedas, Hindu's, Buddist,Muslims lack something Christianity has.. A resurrected Lord.

The Vedas are the Hindu holy books, not a religion.

Hinduism: Hindu's believe in reincarnation, thus your resurrected lord isn't something special to them. Ironically Hindu's seek to reach nirvana where they will no longer be reincarnated.

Vishnu one of the Hindu Gods (depending on what type of hinduism) is said to take human form and come to earth as an avatar to lead the people, he has done this multiple times.

Buddhism: Buddhists also believe in reincarnation and a journey towards Nirvana. Although not God, a very intelligent figure in their beliefs, the Dali Lamma is believed to have been reincarnated at least 14 times and current Buddhists can talk with him.

In otherwords, compared to those beliefs, I would say that both religions find a God that came down as a human 2000 years ago, to be killed, then magically resurrected before vanishing too not only be familiar but rather boring and certain not something they lack or are craving in their own beliefs.



Ok, now back on topic.

Ok. And knowing this benefits me how? It doesn't.. And it doesn't benefit you either. The point of that statement was, My Lord is resurrected.



[This message has been edited by HellzShellz (edited 01-25-2006).]

It benefits you because you should know about other religions especially if you are going to say they lack something.

How the FUCK does it benefit ANYBODY to have your Lord resurrected?

quote:Originally posted by Source:

It really doesn't matter. Until people stop hidding behind the excuse of god, we wont make any real progress here.

"The Bible is built from manuscripts which are unaltered. I blame God" Who else is there to blame?

I don't know who teaches you bible studies...

I went to a catholic school, and we were taught that the bible had been altered many times before and after it was scribed... Especially because english lacks many words that were used by the hebrew scribes... Many era words used in the original texts simply don't exist in other languages...

Yahwei/God translates literally as "People of the Sky"

It obviously has been edited...

God is reffered to as "he" and at other times is reffered to with the royal "we"... That is directly due to the translation of "People of the sky" to God...

(Excuse spelling, my spell check is down)

quote:Originally posted by Source:

Lets say you lined loads and loads of people up across say.... America from lets say... California to New York, then lets say you started a simple sentence like... My friend invited me to a party.

What are the odds that this sentence will still be the same when it gets to new york? I guarantee half the tits in the line would change it.

So what makes you think it would be any different with 2000 years of history passed down from generation to generation?

I may have said this before, but who cares...

we have the dead sea scrolls that show that the bible has remind pretty much unchanged for a long time.

quote:Originally posted by PirateJoe:

we have the dead sea scrolls that show that the bible has remind pretty much unchanged for a long time.

only about 30% of the fragments are books in the old hebrew bible... but I also doubt they are "Unchanged"... they're written before the new testiment... that's before HALF of the bible was written...

The other 70% of the scrolls aren't in the bible...

quote:Originally posted by Source:

Lets say you lined loads and loads of people up across say.... America from lets say... California to New York, then lets say you started a simple sentence like... My friend invited me to a party.

What are the odds that this sentence will still be the same when it gets to new york? I guarantee half the tits in the line would change it.

So what makes you think it would be any different with 2000 years of history passed down from generation to generation?

I may have said this before, but who cares...

http://www.carm.org/questions/rewritten.htm

It isn't all true, remember it has been changed since it was originally written.

HellzShellz:

Much like Egyptian pharaohs who completely annihilated their enemies from existence by dismantling their temples and monuments and erasing their names from the annals of history, Christianity hasn't "died out" because it has done well to slaughter anything in its path by corrupting the most powerful empire in the history of mankind - Rome. Without the perversion of the nation that already had its grip on history's most influential continent, Christianity would be a forgotten cult, laughed off the face of the earth for its humiliating perception of mankind.

I am the incarnation of the wrath of eight hundred fifty generations of families who have been desecrated by Nazarene humiliation and demand retribution.

If I could have one moment with the bitch Nazarene swinging on that cross, I'd take a rusty handsaw to his lower jaw and scrape that cunt a fresh, bloody wound that would make his nailed hands and feet feel like a manicure. I'd start sawing through his teeth, cutting his soft, pulsing tongue like a tomato, slowly pulling the jagged, rocky edges of the blade across the bone of his chin until his mouth cracked in two. I'd continue carving away at the flesh of his throat, tearing open his trachea. I'd scrape away at the clavicle bone like a piece of wood, slice off his pectorials like Thanksgiving meat, and turn his solar plexus into sawdust. I would continue every forced, enthusiastic scratch against his innards and bones, shaving, inch by inch, until I got to his flaccid penis and wrinkled, cobwebbed testicles. I'd pull on the handle of the saw as it catches on the sinew and tissue of his scrotum until the tool tore from his legs, and his organs burst forward from his belly like the pus of a cockroach, his tendril-like entrails dangling from his rotting carcass. I'd set his worm-eaten cross ablaze so that his corpse crackled, hissed, and shriveled like dried pig meat.

I would dismember him.

I would devour him.

I would take every Christian on this earth and build the world's largest temple out of their mutilated corpses. Its walls would be built of severed limbs. Its tapestries would be woven with miles and miles of soggy, dripping skin and sinew carved from billions of Nazarene bodies. I would fill every valley, crack, and crevice with oceans of Christian blood. And from the mountaintops of the world, I would raise the banner of conquest for the most ancient and eternal gods of the North, who would forever proclaim: God has been slain! No damnation could ever be sufficient against this most despicable and vile of all subversions in the history of the universe! Timeless and integral torture shall be his every existing moment!

Tell your God to run. Run and never stop running. Hide and never stop hiding. If I find him, I will tear him limb from limb, hack him piece by piece, and tear every modicum of flesh from his rotten body until not a single memory of his trespass remains!

NOT A SINGLE ONE!

quote:Originally posted by Source:

So what makes you think it would be any different with 2000 years of history passed down from generation to generation?

GOD.

quote:Originally posted by Axiom:

I went to a catholic school, and we were taught that the bible had been altered many times before and after it was scribed... Especially because english lacks many words that were used by the hebrew scribes... Many era words used in the original texts simply don't exist in other languages...

The stories, lessons, and DOMINANT message were altered, or tit-for-tat words like "came" and "went" were altered ?

quote:Yahwei/God translates literally as "People of the Sky"

Uhhh...no.

The translation of Yahweh into English is literally “He is”, and reflects an understanding of the name as an earlier form of the Qal imperfect of the Hebrew verb hāyāh, sometimes written hāwāh (the actual original root was hwy). However the form has also been analyzed as the Hiphil imperfect of the same verb, meaning “He (who) causes to be,” i.e., “He (who) creates” or “He (who) brings into existence.” Exodus 3:14 (“I AM WHO I AM”) may be of some assistance in deciding between these two views.

quote:God is reffered to as "he" and at other times is reffered to with the royal "we"... That is directly due to the translation of "People of the sky" to God...

"We" = God, Son, and Holy Spirit.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

HellzShellz:

Much like Egyptian pharaohs who completely annihilated their enemies from existence by dismantling their temples and monuments and erasing their names from the annals of history, Christianity hasn't "died out" because it has done well to slaughter anything in its path by corrupting the most powerful empire in the history of mankind - Rome. Without the perversion of the nation that already had its grip on history's most influential continent, Christianity would be a forgotten cult, laughed off the face of the earth for its humiliating perception of mankind.

You've GOT to be kidding me...Tyrant, I respected you very much, once upon a time, but this is so unbelievably inaccurate I can hardly attribute it to you.

Christianity corrupted Rome ?! *ROFL*

No. Rome adopted Christianity to snuff out the Jews, whom they DETESTED.

Their governments and religious officials were at each other's throats for the duration of their co-existence, and Rome sought nothing more than a way to spite them out of their lives.

In Christianity they saw a unique opporunity to thwart the Hebrew religion (the foundation for Jewish government and power) once and for all, and give dominion over them to the Romans.

The Gentiles had finally found their voice.

Christianity has thrived and maintained because it is God.

I would go into depth on why Islam has thrived and maintained, but everyone would just call me a bigot for citing historical and spiritual evidences of it's satanic origins.

quote:I am the incarnation of the wrath of eight hundred fifty generations of families who have been desecrated by Nazarene humiliation and demand retribution.

So, you hate Christianity because of a personal vendetta, therefore it's acceptable for you to spread uninformed assertions and hate speech about it ?

Brilliant.

quote:If I could have one moment with the bitch Nazarene swinging on that cross, I'd take a rusty handsaw to his lower jaw and scrape that cunt a fresh, bloody wound that would make his nailed hands and feet feel like a manicure. I'd start sawing through his teeth, cutting his soft, pulsing tongue like a tomato, slowly pulling the jagged, rocky edges of the blade across the bone of his chin until his mouth cracked in two. I'd continue carving away at the flesh of his throat, tearing open his trachea. I'd scrape away at the clavicle bone like a piece of wood, slice off his pectorials like Thanksgiving meat, and turn his solar plexus into sawdust. I would continue every forced, enthusiastic scratch against his innards and bones, shaving, inch by inch, until I got to his flaccid penis and wrinkled, cobwebbed testicles. I'd pull on the handle of the saw as it catches on the sinew and tissue of his scrotum until the tool tore from his legs, and his organs burst forward from his belly like the pus of a cockroach, his tendril-like entrails dangling from his rotting carcass. I'd set his worm-eaten cross ablaze so that his corpse crackled, hissed, and shriveled like dried pig meat.

I would dismember him.

I would devour him.

I would take every Christian on this earth and build the world's largest temple out of their mutilated corpses. Its walls would be built of severed limbs. Its tapestries would be woven with miles and miles of soggy, dripping skin and sinew carved from billions of Nazarene bodies. I would fill every valley, crack, and crevice with oceans of Christian blood. And from the mountaintops of the world, I would raise the banner of conquest for the most ancient and eternal gods of the North, who would forever proclaim: God has been slain! No damnation could ever be sufficient against this most despicable and vile of all subversions in the history of the universe! Timeless and integral torture shall be his every existing moment!

Tell your God to run. Run and never stop running. Hide and never stop hiding. If I find him, I will tear him limb from limb, hack him piece by piece, and tear every modicum of flesh from his rotten body until not a single memory of his trespass remains!

NOT A SINGLE ONE!

You are in desperate need of an exorcism.

Stick around though, heathen...your wishes will come true soon enough.

Read Revelation.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 01-27-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I would go into depth on why Islam has thrived and maintained, but everyone would just call me a bigot for citing historical and spiritual evidences of it's satanic origins.



Please, do inform us. I never thought a religion had SATANIC roots? It's almost like every religion that doesn't start with "christ" and ends with "ianity" is evil..

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

"The Bible is built from manuscripts which are unaltered. I blame God" Who else is there to blame?

Where's the proof they weren't altered at some point in the past? On top of that according to a documentary I watched on the history channel, there were many other books of a profound religous nature left out of the cannon of the bible because these stories raised to many questions that the early church had no answers for. Alot of these books were even put on a ban list and people were told to burn them.

One of the books in question actually adressed the question of Christs earlier years as a kid. Only these stories didnt present him in a good light as he was very mischievous. He was even suppost to have pushed a fellow child off a roof killing him in the process, but when the villagers became angry with him and asked why he would do such a thing, he denied it and then layed his hands on the dead child and brought him back to life, and said see he wasn't dead.

Upon returning to life young jesus asked the child, "Did I push you off that roof and kill you?" The child replied "no." You have to ask yourself though was the child lying for fear jesus would return him to the land of the dead or did jesus manipulate this childs memories? Either way this story showed him to be a cosmic "Denis the Menace". Something the church wouldn't stand for.

The Bible has been extensively edited, as even the most cursory research will show. For instance, HRE Justinian and his wife Theodora held the Council of Nicea (circa third century) in which--among other things--almost all references to reincarnation were removed from scripture.

Mark Twain said it best when he observed that the Bible contains "some noble poetry, a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies."

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Except its like a handful of people. Your simply kidding yourself if you think its that many.

Besides, copying and remembering are two very different things.

And they copied it meticulously, re-doing a whole page if it had a spelling mistake and re-doing the whole thing if the spelling mistake contained the Lord's name.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Buddhism: Buddhists also believe in reincarnation and a journey towards Nirvana. Although not God, a very intelligent figure in their beliefs, the Dali Lamma is believed to have been reincarnated at least 14 times and current Buddhists can talk with him.

In otherwords, compared to those beliefs, I would say that both religions find a God that came down as a human 2000 years ago, to be killed, then magically resurrected before vanishing too not only be familiar but rather boring and certain not something they lack or are craving in their own beliefs.



Ok, now back on topic.

Ok. And knowing this benefits me how? It doesn't.. And it doesn't benefit you either. The point of that statement was, My Lord is resurrected.





In Hinduism, Shiva conceived a son with his wife before he went off on a long journey. His son was born months later and, as Shive returned home, he did not recognize the boy. Thinking hew as an intruder, he cut the boys head off and showed it to his wife as a prize. She told him it was his son and so they searched for a new head. The only one they could find was an elephants, which is why Vishnu has an elephant head. He was ressurected after the new head was attached.

Buddhism (false, lying Buddhism, but Biddhism none-the-less) is based on the premise of those who have found Nirvana coming back to guide others to it. Of course, in the Buddha's own words, it is a way of life and not a religion. It was designed to escape a religion that brought war and tyranny. Those who treat Buddhism as incompatible with other religions don't understand what it's saying. I recommend you read Living Christ. Living Buddha. It explains this a bit better; the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity in philosophical manners.

In Egyptian mythology, Osiris was slain by Set. He was eventually brought back back Isis.

Odin.

Jupiter.

Lots of religions have to do with ressurection.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

How the FUCK does it benefit ANYBODY to have your Lord resurrected?

Because he saved everyone from their sins, stupid.

Digital_Savior:

You've GOT to be kidding me...Tyrant, I respected you very much, once upon a time, but this is so unbelievably inaccurate I can hardly attribute it to you.

Christianity corrupted Rome ?! *ROFL*

No. Rome adopted Christianity to snuff out the Jews, whom they DETESTED.

Their governments and religious officials were at each other's throats for the duration of their co-existence, and Rome sought nothing more than a way to spite them out of their lives.

In Christianity they saw a unique opporunity to thwart the Hebrew religion (the foundation for Jewish government and power) once and for all, and give dominion over them to the Romans.

The Gentiles had finally found their voice.

Christianity has thrived and maintained because it is God.

Lesson #1: The Romans did not need to adopt the creed of a mystery cult to oppose the Jews - war and slaughter worked plenty well. Innovation was hardly a concern for them in this endeavor; adopting Christianity earned them nothing in this regard.

Lesson #2: The Romans didn't adopt Christianity until three hundred years after the Crucifixion, when Constantine I beheld a vision that caused him to convert. He then used his power to unleash a campaign of persecution and complete annihilation of anything related to the arcane spiritual realm.

Lesson #3: Had Constantine never converted, Christianity would be nothing more than an obscure footnote in the history of civilization, having long been crushed beneath Roman might.

Lesson #4: Christianity was not the "voice of the Gentiles"; the Nazarenes murdered countless pagan Gentiles. Imperial edicts were passed to restrict Gentile liberties - under Emperor Flavius Jovianus, Gentile officers were forbidden to command Christian soldiers. During the reign of Emperor Valens, the term "pagan" (Latin paganus, meaning villager, indicating an uncultured and degenerate mentality associated with the faith) emerged as a derogatory term for those who did not accept Christianity - identification as a "pagan" almost immediately resulted in one's execution. Christian Rome ordered its officers to sack Gentile temples, burn Gentile literature, outlaw non-Christian practices, and murder millions upon millions of pagans, of the priesthood or otherwise, thus helping to nurture the germination of a seed that would see its roots wrap around the pathos of human thought for centuries afterwards.

Lesson #5: Christianity "thrived and maintained" because it is one of the world's youngest religions, and, since its edicts and laws attract naught but the greatest quantity of weak-minded, feeble-spirited, creeping wretches, it is enthusiastically supported by those strong men who would seek to earn plebian support.

Lesson #6: There is nothing Godly about subversion, manipulation, mutiny, cowardice, and usurpation.

So, you hate Christianity because of a personal vendetta, therefore it's acceptable for you to spread uninformed assertions and hate speech about it ?

Brilliant.

No. I hate Christianity because it is the most atrocious and corrupt of all treacheries to ever cast its venomous, vapid shadow over a world populated by innocent, intelligent, and honorable peoples, subsequently crushed by the Nazarene abomination to the human soul.

Your lack of sympathy towards the inquantifiable amount of people who've been killed by this cult of alleged compassion and love only vindicates the truth of the hollow, decrepit vacuum of Christian thought. A true admirer of compassion and empathy could never help but hold in immortal and integral contempt the unforgivably criminal treachery and abysmal psychosis of every priest, cardinal, pastor, bishop, pope, preacher, evangelist, and messiah to have ever crept from the blighted realms of Nazarene faith.

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 01-28-2006).]

You can't blame this on christianity or the bible for that matter. nuff said

And why not?

You are just trying to justify your hatred towards christianity, just because you want to stay home and play counterstrike doesn't make christianity corrupt. Any true "christian" would not kill jews or any one from different culture, you generalizing prick.

OK, lamb chop, time for a quick lesson in etiquette: I am not one of your run-of-the-mill, knuckle-dragging, brain-dead TOTSE niggers, so keep your premature, uninformed castigations to yourself. I've been an open and fervent enemy of Christianity before you had your dick snipped, so don't think you can cut me down to size with your self-aggrandizing and naively pretentious accusations about me being some video-game-addicted faggot. Unlike the other primitive, cross-eyed crackers you bump elbows with in the overpopulated, Myspace-dominated abysmal nightmare you call your waking existence, I am an evolved being, with a wholesomely healthy mentality and a dignified sense of esteem the likes of which you've never dreamed. So, if you're gonna bark, bark louder if you want the people this high up the food chain to hear you, mm'kay, sonny? Mm'kay.

Now, on to the parroted Pavlovian suicide note you call a "post."

You are just trying to justify your hatred towards christianity, just because you want to stay home and play counterstrike doesn't make christianity corrupt.

Not only have I never played counterstrike, and not only do I have no clue what obstacle I would face where my only possible route home was through the rejection of Christianity, but I don't understand the course of logic that justifies this conclusion. Either you didn't read my post (possible), you didn't get it (probable), or you're suffering from an aphasic lesion in your frontal cortex (hilarious). As a result, I'll do what I can to dumb it down.

My hatred of Christianity has more to do with the ANNIHILATION OF ENTIRE CULTURES than anything concerning me as an individual or my personal vanities or addictions.

Any more of such talk, and it's the ovens for you.

Any true "christian" would not kill jews or any one from different culture, you generalizing prick.

This is like a palindrome of banality - either of two interpretations of "true christian" illustrates you to be completely and undeniably ignorant of all things within a concise scheme of reality.

If you meant "true Christian" as in, "a person who follows the form of Christianity generated according to the whims of its constituents," then you are blatantly wrong, and history agrees - entire nations have been swallowed by the historical tide of Nazarene waters and, more often than not, have drowned in their own blood as a result, Hebrew or otherwise.

If you meant "true Christian" as in, "a person who follows the original, primordial principles and ethics of Christianity at its advent," then you are still wrong, since Christ himself told his disciples to arm themselves with swords and, if necessary, to sell their garments to procure one (Luke 22:36).

Not to mention that I never said anything about Christians killing Jews - in fact, everything I wrote was about Christians killing Gentiles because Christianity is a sub-cult of Judaism.

Get it now, sonny-boy?

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 01-28-2006).]

I'm guessing you're of Aztec or Mayan descent, Tyrant, but I'm sure there are other cultures exterminated by Christianity... where you from? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

*shits out blood onto thread*

Now back to the topic!

What I was trying to say is that the bible does not say "everything in this book is the word of god and absolutely correct."

The bible is a collection of works, the parts of which were written before it was put together. So no part of it can even make reference to the whole, even if that part were "divinely inspired."

So when christians claim that they "know" the entire bible is fact, are they just pulling that idea out of their collective asses? See what I'm saying here?

If I insert the The Weekly World News in an Encyclopedia Brittanica, it doesn't make "bat boy born" a fact.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

So when christians claim that they "know" the entire bible is fact, are they just pulling that idea out of their collective asses? See what I'm saying here?



Christians don't KNOW their Bible. Every last bloody lot of them interpret their Bible differently. Each taking it in turn to use their interpretation of the Bible to discredit and damn all other forms of Christianity to an eternal barbeque where "false" Christians are on the main menu. Take those Christians who read one verse of the Bible, concentrate on that verse ONLY and pull a whole new doctrine out of their ass. Now take another group of Christians, they take a verse from another part of the Bible, different Testament, different author, different book, which is the exact opposite of the verse that the first group is using, and then use that verse as evidence that God is going to use his loving lightning bolts to caress said "false prophets" ASSES!



quote:Originally posted by Digital_SaviourI would go into depth on why Islam has thrived and maintained, but everyone would just call me a bigot for citing historical and spiritual evidences of it's satanic origins.

Digital, you say Islam came directly from Satanic roots, can you back that up, you fucking bigot? I suppose your way of loving them is to send them via gunshot to the footsteps of God's judgment throne. Why else would you support a war with Iraq? Shouldn't you be adamantly against ALL war, if you're a Christian, that is? Or do you see it, as some groups of Christianity do, as a way of furthering the "time of the end", and bringing back the reign of Jesus fucking Christ here on earth?

Another question for you Digi, is it because of Satanic origins that there's under 20 different Islamic "denominations", as compared to the HUNDREDS of different Christian churches and denominations? Must be Satan in the Muslims which can at least unite them under the same belief.

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets

Because he saved everyone from their sins, stupid

Which sins are we discussing? The Islamic list of sins? the Catholic list? the Anglicans'? Aborigines'? the fucking Pygmies'? Evidently he didn't do a very good job of saving us, according to Christians BILLIONS of people will roast in Hell FOREVER (sorry, the Bible actually says an age... at least that's what SOME Christians interpret the Bible as saying). God, Christians bug the shit out of me.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

I'm guessing you're of Aztec or Mayan descent, Tyrant, but I'm sure there are other cultures exterminated by Christianity... where you from? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Aztec? Mayan? Awesome. http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

Actually, my ancestors are, on alternate sides amongst both my parents, Germanic/Scandinavian and Celtic.

My bloodlust, however, is hardly uninspired by the fall of these two great civilizations, either.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Aztec? Mayan? Awesome. http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

=D I've always thought both were very interesting.

quote:Actually, my ancestors are, on alternate sides amongst both my parents, Germanic/Scandinavian and Celtic.

Hey, same here! Maybe I should be angrier as well. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Still the crhistians have not

answered my question.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Ok. And knowing this benefits me how? It doesn't.. And it doesn't benefit you either. The point of that statement was, My Lord is resurrected.



The Egyptians had a man who was killed then resurrected, get this, 3 days later. Ever hear the story of Osiris? He was killed by his bro, and body parts scattered... his wife gathered them, put them together and after 3 days he came back as a god... sound familiar?

Source (http://www.geocities.com/faithofyeshua/crucified_sun_godno4.htm):

Osiris and Horus, the Egyptian virgin-born gods, suffered death (Renouf, Religions of Ancient Egypt, p. 178). Mr. Bonwick, speaking of Osiris, says: "He is one of the Saviors or deliverers of humanity, to be found in almost all lands" [only his name was changed from country to country]. "In his efforts to do good, he encounters evil; in struggling with that he is overcome; he is killed" (Bonwick, Egyptian Belief, p. 155).

Alexander Murray says: "The Egyptian Savior Osiris was gratefully regarded as the great exemplar of self-sacrifice, in giving his life for others" (Murray, Manual of Mythology, p. 348).

The writers of the New Testament carry on this same idea.

Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Sir. J. G. Wilkinson says of Osiris: "The sufferings and death of Osiris was the great Mystery of the Egyptian religion, and some traces of it are perceptible among other peoples of antiquity (remember Sun Worship?). His being the Divine Goodness, and the abstract idea of "good," his manifestation upon earth (like a Hindu god), his death and resurrection, and his office as judge of the dead in a future state, look like the early revelation of a future manifestation of the deity converted into a mythological fable" (Rawlinson, Herodotus, vol. ii. P. 171).

Horus was also called "The Savior." "As Horus Sneb, he is the Redeemer. He is the Lord of Life and the Eternal One" (Bonwick, Egyptian Belief, P. 185). He is also called "The Only-Begotten" (Mysteries of Adonai, p. 88).

Attis, who was called the "Only Begotten Son" (Knight, Ancient Art and Mythology, p. xxii.) and "Savior," was worshipped by the Phrygians (who were regarded as one of the oldest races of Asia Minor). He was represented by them as a man tied to a tree, at the foot of which was a lamb (Dupuls, Origin of Religious Belief, p. 255). He is also characterized as a man nailed to the tree, or stake, for we find Lactantius making this Apollo of Miletus (anciently, the greatest and the most flourishing city of Ionia, in Asia Minor) say that : "He was a mortal according to the flesh; wise in miraculous works; but being arrested by an armed force by command of the Chaldean judges (Sadducee like), he suffered a death made bitter with nails and stakes" (Dupuls, Origin of Religious Belief, vol. ii).

In this god of the Phrygians, we again have the same myth of the crucified Savior of Paganism.

By referring to Mrs. Jameson's History of Our Lord in Art, it can easily be seen that a common mode of representing a crucifixion was that of a man, tied with cords by the hands and feet, to an upright beam or stake.

Tammuz, or Adonis, the Syrian Adonai (Lord) was another virgin-born god, who suffered for mankind, and who had the title of "Savior." The accounts of his death are conflicting, just as it is with almost all of the so-called Saviors of mankind (including the Christian Savior). As we progress we shall see that the reason for such variation is the multiple variety of Sun Myths that deal with the dying of the sun. Every nation had their own spin to the story it seems, but the basic story was the same.

As if this was not enough evidence and facts from history and the religions of the world to arouse more than an idle curiosity in the Christian believer, the ancients who honored Tammuz and Adonis as their Lord and Savior also celebrated a feast in commemoration of his death (it was their Lord's Supper). An image, intended as a representation of their Lord, was laid on a bed or bier, and bewailed in mournful hymns just as the Roman Catholics do at the present day in their "Good Friday" mass.

During this ceremony the priest murmured: "Trust ye in your Lord, for the pains which he endured, our salvation have procured" (Higgins, Anacalypsis, vol. ii. p. 114).

The Rev. Dr. Parkhurst, in his Hebrew Lexicon, after referring to what we have just stated above, says: "His other name, Adonis, is almost the very Hebrew Adonai or Lord, a well-known title of Christ."

Prometheus was a crucified Savior. He was "an immortal god, a friend of the human race, "who does not shrink even from sacrificing himself for their salvation."

The tragedy of the crucifixion of Prometheus, written by Eschylus, was acted in Athens five hundred years before the Christian Era, and is by many considered to be the most ancient dramatic poem now in existence. The plot was derived from materials even at that time of an infinitely remote antiquity. Nothing was ever so exquisitely calculated to work upon the feelings of the spectators. "His (Divine Sufferer) sorrows were endured for their salvation." The majesty of his silence, whilst the ministers of an offended god were nailing him by the hands and feet to Mount Caucasus, could only be equaled by the modesty with which he relates, "while hanging with arms extended in the form of a cross," his services to the human race, which had brought on him that horrible crucifixion (Eschylus, Prometheus Chained, Harper and Bros., N.Y.). In the myth relating to Prometheus, he always appears as the friend of the human race, suffering in its behalf the most fearful tortures. More than strange is the unique story of Prometheus' friend, Oceanus, the fisherman, as his name Petrroeus indicates. This Oceanus tries unsuccessfully to influence Prometheus to not die for mankind, but being unable to prevail on him to make his peace with Jupiter, by throwing the cause of human redemption out of his hands, forsook him and flew. Now contrast this with Matt. 16:22

Matt 16:22

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

None remained to be witness of his dying agonies but the chorus of ever-amiable and every-faithful which also bewailed and lamented him

Luke 23:27

27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.

In the words of Justin Martyr: "Suffering was common to all of the sons of Jove." They were called the "Slain Ones," "Saviors," "Redeemers," etc.

Bacchus, the offspring of Jupiter and Semele, was called the "Savior" (Knight, Anct. Art and Mythology, p. 98) He was called the "Only Begotten Son," the "Slain One" (Knight, Ancient Art and Mythology, p. xxii), the "Sin Bearer"(Bonwick, Egyptian Belief, p. 169), the "Redeemer" (Dupis, Origin of Religious Belief, p. 135), etc. Evil having spread itself over the earth, through the inquisitiveness of Pandor, the Lord of the gods is begged to come to the relief of mankind. Jupiter lends a willing ear to the entreaties, "and wishes that his son should be the redeemer of the misfortunes of the world; The Bacchus Savior. He promises to the earth a Liberator..and the universe shall worship him, and shall praise in songs his blessings." In order to execute his purpose, Jupiter overshadows the beautiful young maiden, the virgin Semele, who becomes the mother of the Redeemer."

"It is I (says the lord Bacchus to mankind), who guides you; it is I who protects you, and who saves you; I who am Alpha and Omega." (quoted on the monument of Bacchus)

Hercules, the son of Zeus, was called "The Savior" (Higgins, Anacalypsis, vol. i. p. 322). The words "Hercules the Savior" were engraven on ancient coins and monuments (Celtic Druids, Taylor, Diegesis, p. 153). He was also called "The Only Begotten," and the "Universal Word." He was re-absorbed into God. He was said by Ovid to be the sun "Self-produced," the Generator and Ruler of all things, and the Father of time (Mysteries of Adonai, p. 91, and Higgins, Anacalypsis, vol. i. p. 322).

Esculapis was distinguished by the epithet “The Savior” (Taylor, Diegesis, p. 153). The Temple erected to his memory in the city of Athens was called: “The Temple of the Savior.”

Apollo was distinguished by the epithet “The Savior” as well (Dupuis, Origin of Religious Belief, p. 264). In a hymn to Apollo he is called: “The willing Savior of distressed mankind” (Monumental Christianity, p. 186).

Serapis was called “The Savior” (Higgins, Anacalypsis, vol. ii. p. 15). He was considered by Hadrian, the Roman emperor (117-138 A.D.), and the Gentiles, to be the peculiar god of the Christians (Giles, Hebrew and Christian Records, vol. Ii. p. 86). A cross was found under the ruins of his temple in Alexandria in Egypt (Anacalypsis, vol. ii. p. 15). And notice also that much of the New Testament was written from Alexandria, Egypt along with the translation of the LXX which is corrupted in many places when compared with the Palestinian Masoretic text. It is very evident that the pictures of Christ Jesus, as we know them today, are simply the pictures of some of the Pagan gods. A cursory study of religious art in the early days of Christianity and before will show you the resemblances. One should expect that Jesus of Nazareth to resemble a Jew and have Jewish features and these early pictures do not betray such a fact.

Mithras, who was “Mediator between God and man” (Dunlap, Spirit History, pp. 237, 242) was also called “The Savior.” He was the peculiar god of the Persians, who believed that he had, by his sufferings, worked their salvation, and on this account he was called their “Savior” (Higgins, Anacalypsis, vol. ii, p. 20). He was also called “the Logos” (Dunlop, Son of Man, p. 20). According to the most ancient tradition of the East-Iranians recorded in the end-Avesta, the God of Light (Ormuzd) communicated his mysteries to some men through his "Word" (Bunsen, Angel-Messiah, p. 75).

The Persians believed that they were tainted with “original sin” owing to the fall of their first parents who were tempted by the evil one in the form of a serpent (Wake, Phallism, p. 47).

They considered the law-given Zoroaster to be also a Divine Messenger, sent to redeem men from their evil ways, and they always worshipped his memory. To this day his followers mention him with the greatest reverence, calling him “The Immortal Zoroaster,” “The Blessed Zoroaster,” “The First-Born of the Eternal One,” etc. (Prog. Relig. Ideas, vol. i. pp. 258, 259).

"In the life of Zoroaster the common mythos is apparent. He was born in innocence, of an immaculate conception, of a ray of Divine Reason. As soon as he was born, the glory arising from his body enlightened the room, and he laughed at his mother. He was called a Splendid Light from the Tree of Knowledge, and, in find, he or his soul was hung upon a tree, and this was the Tree of Knowledge" (Malcolm, Hist. Persia, vol. i. pp. p. 494; Nimrod, vol. ii. P. 31; Anacalypsis, vol. il. P. 649).

How much this resembles "the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints" (Col. 1:26).

Hermes was called "The Savior." On the altar of Pepi (B.C. 3500) are to be found prayers to Hermes…"He who is the good Savior" (Bonwick, Egyptian Belief, p. 102). He was also called "The Logos." The church fathers, Hippolytus, Justin Martyr, and Plutarch assert that the Logos is Hermes (Dunlap, Son of Man, p. 30). The term "Logos" is Greek and signifies literally "Word" (John 1:1). He was also "The Messenger of God" (Bell, Pantheon, vol. ii, pp. 69-71).

Dr. Inman says: "There are few words which strike more strongly upon the senses of in inquirer into the nature of ancient faiths, than Salvation and Savior. Both were used long before the birth of Christ, and they are still common among those who never heard of Jesus, or of that which is known among us as the Gospels" (Inman, Ancient Faiths, vol. ii. p. 652).

Besides the titles of "God's First-Born," "Only Begotten," the "Mediator," the "Shepherd," the "Advocate," the "Paraclete or Comforter," the "Son of God," the "Logos," etc., being applied to heathen virgin-born gods, before the time assigned for the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, we have also that of Christ and Jesus. This terminology can be studied out by you in detail if you acquire copies of Bunsen, Angel-Messiah, p. 119, Knight, Ancient Art and Mythology, pp. xxii and 98, Dunlap, Son of Man, p. 71, and Spirit History, pp. 183, 205, 206, 249, Bible for Learners, vol. ii. p. 25, Isis Unveiled, vol. iii pp. 195, 237, 516, etc.

[/end of selection]

And let us not forget Odin, who died hanging on a tree with a spear in his side to acquire divine wisdom.

Tyrant, nice post there.

But still no response to my

original question!

It's simple really -

On what do you base your belief

that the entire bible is true,

since the bible does not say so.

Where does the faith come from

that your book is the ultimate

complete word of god?

Where are our christians?

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

Tyrant, nice post there.

But still no response to my

original question!

It's simple really -

On what do you base your belief

that the entire bible is true,

since the bible does not say so.

Where does the faith come from

that your book is the ultimate

complete word of god?

Where are our christians?



did you not go to the link I posted?

http://www.carm.org/evidence.htm

http://www.carm.org/evidence/rewritten.htm

quote:Originally posted by potentgirt:



did you not go to the link I posted?

http://www.carm.org/evidence.htm

http://www.carm.org/evidence/rewritten.htm



That is not what he is asking. He is wanting to know why Christians have assumed the Bible to be inerrant and refuse to believe otherwise.

The answer is that Christians think that if the God of the Bible exists, then the Bible must be his message to humanity, and therefore it should be perfect.

It isn't an unreasonable assumption if you're already assuming that God exists... even I would admit it makes sense. But when you take into account the existence of other religions, the apocrypha and pseudopigrapha, and all the divisions within Christianity, the reasoning behind it falls apart.

[This message has been edited by Clarphimous (edited 02-01-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Uhhh...no.

The translation of Yahweh into English is literally “He is”, and reflects an understanding of the name as an earlier form of the Qal imperfect of the Hebrew verb hāyāh, sometimes written hāwāh (the actual original root was hwy). However the form has also been analyzed as the Hiphil imperfect of the same verb, meaning “He (who) causes to be,” i.e., “He (who) creates” or “He (who) brings into existence.” Exodus 3:14 (“I AM WHO I AM”) may be of some assistance in deciding between these two views.

Uhh.. No...

Originally the hebrews had many God's that live in the heavens... That is why the christian bible has many names for God in the old tetiment... Yahwei eventually became the focus of the Hebrews attention; Eventually encapsulating the other Gods as one....

quote:Originally posted by Axiom:

Uhh.. No...

Originally the hebrews had many God's that live in the heavens... That is why the christian bible has many names for God in the old tetiment... Yahwei eventually became the focus of the Hebrews attention; Eventually encapsulating the other Gods as one....

You're probably thinking of "Elohim." Yahweh isn't even used until the book of Exodus, where he reveals the name to Moses. What I've heard is that the original religion of Abraham involved some sort of family god... like where each family/tribe had their own god(s). And this is what eventually evolved into Judaism. As for the name "Elohim" it probably came from the Canaanites aka Phoenecians. One of their major gods is called "El."

This isn't something I know a lot about, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

quote:Originally posted by potentgirt:



did you not go to the link I posted?



Doesn't answer my question.

The presumed accuracy of the copies

does not equal evidence that all the

content is the will and word of god.

Besides the word of your preachers,

what makes you believe that it's

all correct?

I'm not even arguing that it is wrong.

Just want to know what makes you

think it is all right, besides just

"knowing it is".

Well if you truely believe what it says, in the end of the Bible God says if you take from this you'll be punished and if you add to this you will be punished and if you change this you will be punished... You want to see living proof of this? Look at the mormons, they practically gave the bible a sex change.

The question, once again, is "How does one get to the point where one truly believes what it says and accepts this point without hesitation or exception?"

quote:Originally posted by lordkiller:

Well if you truely believe what it says, in the end of the Bible God says if you take from this you'll be punished and if you add to this you will be punished and if you change this you will be punished... You want to see living proof of this? Look at the mormons, they practically gave the bible a sex change.

And the Mormons think you guys have books missing from the Bible. If they're right, you're gonna be the ones who get punished. So why should they care?

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

And the Mormons think you guys have books missing from the Bible. If they're right, you're gonna be the ones who get punished. So why should they care?

I guess time will tell then?

We'll all meet the maker when we die.

Believe in him or not, he's real.

quote:Originally posted by lordkiller:

I guess time will tell then?

We'll all meet the maker when we die.

Believe in him or not, he's real.



Ironic you call yourself "lord-killer" :P

But I disagree... what if we weren't created. As in we created the universe, and chose to live in it? Have you ever heard of pantheism?

quote:Originally posted by lordkiller:

Well if you truely believe what it says, in the end of the Bible God says if you take from this you'll be punished and if you add to this you will be punished and if you change this you will be punished...

Wrong. That is referring to the revelation itself, not the entire bible - which had not been put together by then.