atheists and agnostics have a better understanding of everything, and are better equiped to cope with the world than christians are, because by its nature atheism and agnosticism are constantly changing ideas, christian beliefs are solid immovable ideas based on aincient beliefs that have been proven incorrect.

ie. atheists ideas are free to adapt to the situation, religious people have to be told how to adapt to a situation. hence atheists=enlightened christians=neurologically inferior.

You are an idiot.

No, believers are better prepared in the situation because they will always have hope to cling to, while an atheist or agnostic knows that there is nothing left if it comes down to that. I think believers are better prepared for life overall due to that fact.

Better prepared to get fleeced by the next con-man that comes round you mean...

I don't get it why do people assume you need God to have hope? I'm pretty damn close to being Atheist (getting closer everyday)and I'm fine. I am very hopeful for the future. Just because I am skeptical of an afterlife doesn't mean I live huddled in fear at the thought of death. I live my life and it doesn't matter if there's anything afterwords, because either I won't exist and it won't matter or I will exist and it'll just be another example of S.S.D.D.

Face it we don't need god we can get along just fine without him/her/it.

I don't understand why atheists just assume that if you believe in God you know nothing of science or the world around you. Science is the understanding of how the world around us works, and whether or not you believe in God it is still a knowledge you should have.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

I don't understand why atheists just assume that if you believe in God you know nothing of science or the world around you. Science is the understanding of how the world around us works, and whether or not you believe in God it is still a knowledge you should have.

Science refutes most ideas behind most religions. Being a scientist and being religious is kinda hypocritical. I know a few people like that, and they are complete wackjobs. One of my nieces. She did all sorts of possible studies there are to be studied on medicine until she turned 40, and then became a fanatical Christian. For a woman who's been studying for 22 years, with several degrees and 2 Ph.D.'s , she's a fucking moron. All the conversations I have with her about certain issues end in "trust in love" and "hope in the Lord" typical sort of bullshit.

People turning to religion is just a result of some sort of crazy trauma. Her old man was a corrupt Communist with some kind of government position. Being unable to act against it, she spontaneously turned to Christianity. It was just a very stupid way to rebel against "the man". When you tell her this, she replies with the typical bullshit how she "found Christ" and feels him inside, as she rubs the place where her tits should be. Which brings me to the point of lack of sex. Women who lack good sex during their teens and 20's are very sensitive to turning to religion. Yet another form of trauma.

All in all, the overloading majority of religious people are traumatized people, who also happen to be idiots. We once had this Paki fucktard at our Uni who gave a speech about Islam in the West. After his speech, I asked him why he has to use words like "diaspora" to act smart in front of the whole fucking class. He just pulled a dirty face. I have this problem with religious people being paid money for telling stories to a bunch of idiot students. The bums who hang around the cafeteria during the winter have far better stories to tell. Government conspiracies and Alien abductions are far more interesting things than "Jesus" and "Hope".

People who believe in God can't cope on their own, they need the believe that when the shit hits the fan, theres still gonna be that one guy lookin out for them.

People who don't believe in God excpet the fact that theres fuck all they can do when the end comes and, that they either die and thats it, so it doesn't matter or, there is an afterlife and it's ok.

The way I see it, there's 3 kinds of christian.

The first kind is the person who likes the philosophy behind the religion, basically just being a good person and all that.

The second kind is the person who believes in god, but doesn't take the bible seriously.

The third kind is the Fruit&Nut Bar who takes every story in the bible literally, pushes for creationism in schools, and is destroying the country.

The first kind is at no disadvantage to atheists or agnostics. The second kind might actually have an advantage, because they can think rationally but at the same time they do have that faith. The third kind should be fucking institutionalized.

[This message has been edited by TwistdSoul (edited 01-30-2006).]

To Snoopy: The way I see it, science and religion need not be seperate. I am quite religious, but also very interested in science. He created this world, and science is just the study of the way His world works. The only thing in science that really contradicts religion is evolution, and even that hasn't been proved.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

To Snoopy: The way I see it, science and religion need not be seperate. I am quite religious, but also very interested in science. He created this world, and science is just the study of the way His world works. The only thing in science that really contradicts religion is evolution, and even that hasn't been proved.

From the human point of view, it would be retarded to try and oppose the idea that our universe has been created. In fact, everything that exists is created at one point. That is the definition of the word itself. So if our universe exists, then it has been created.

However, to believe our universe was created by a "God" who sends people to "hell" for masturbating is pretty much retarded as well. Believing that our universe has been created, is not a matter of religion or faith. It's simply believing in the meaning of the words "creation" and "existence". If you want to argue their meaning, that's a totally different thing.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

To Snoopy: The way I see it, science and religion need not be seperate. I am quite religious, but also very interested in science. He created this world, and science is just the study of the way His world works. The only thing in science that really contradicts religion is evolution, and even that hasn't been proved.

Having taken my fair share of Physics and Chemistry classes, I've learned a fair deal about how the world works. For example, radioactive decay exists. It has/can be observed quite easily. Radioactive dating with dozens of isotopes has pinpointed the formation of the Earth to 4.55 byr, +/- .05 byr. How do you rationalize this with a religion that has been interpreted as stating that the Earth was formed a mere 6000 years ago?

Regarding evolution, it's a fact. The means of evolution is still theory. This is the accepted view in modern Biology. Such statements can be made as we have observed such evolution. I can show you fossils of a wolf-like creature evolving into a whale.

The creationists claim that it's theoretical, simply because speciation hasn't been observed. This is a lie. Speciation has been observed. How do you rationalize these scientific observations and fact with Christian teachings?

I'm not going to go out and say that Science directly contradicts religion, but for the most part, you have to interpret religious texts very carefully if you wish to rationalize the two.

I did't bother reading anything in this thread except the post starts post.

How can anyone be better than someone in a beleife you idiot. You arn't 100% sure god doesn't exist, and don't give me the shit you are because i'm not 100% sure he does.

This is like saying someone is stupider than you because they believe in Ghosts,l no one is sure.

So i read more of your post just a second ago and you said we have an immovable ideas based on ancient beleives. Well basically the only "immovable" thing is ancient rituals, and they are immovable because they are... rituals.

We are never told how to adapt to anything, i mean what asking your god for help is supposed to be some set in stone rule? I am a christian and i believe in things not 100% that are in the bible, and the only people who do go 100% by the bible are extremist, which in my opinion are the oppostie of athiests.

So the reason you have changeable ideas is because you have no foundation to hold them. If you even consider them changable. No god, that's basically it, i don't see that as too movable.

ok, i'm bored with this.

Don't be a dumbass. There are many intelligent theists and atheists. Each side brings a decent argument to the table. I think both theists and atheists would disagree with you.

"Theist" shouldn't be a profession in my eyes, seen as how theists don't do shit for humanity, safe for making it more stupid. In fact, they don't do anything at all, and shouldn't be paid jack shit for their "studies".

Scientists do all kinds of useful shit, like healing cancer and inventing more powerful weapons.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

"Theist" shouldn't be a profession in my eyes, seen as how theists don't do shit for humanity, safe for making it more stupid.

Socrates, Aristotle, Galileo, Pythagorus, and Marcus Auralius all believed in powers higher than themselves. I guess that means they didn't do shit for humanity. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

this forum makes me vomit

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Socrates, Aristotle, Galileo, Pythagorus, and Marcus Auralius all believed in powers higher than themselves. I guess that means they didn't do shit for humanity. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

They weren't theists, tard, they were philosophers. There's a world in difference. What they believed in matters not. They didn't make their beliefs a profession. Besides, what does a "higher power" have to do with religion? The sun is a higher power than me. Should I worship it?

You must understand the meaning of the words before you use them, idiot.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Socrates, Aristotle, Galileo, Pythagorus, and Marcus Auralius all believed in powers higher than themselves. I guess that means they didn't do shit for humanity. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Seriously, I'm sorry for repeating myself, but I just have to point out how fucking retarded you are for calling those people "theists".

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Seriously, I'm sorry for repeating myself, but I just have to point out how fucking retarded you are for calling those people "theists".

I didn't call them 'theists', Shithead.

Do you even know jack shit about anyone I mentioned? Let me elaborate:

*Socrates - believed that the god of Delphi said he was the wisest man; some speculated he believed in reincarnation, but it was known that he believed in the gods

*Aristotle - Aristotelian Theology, the gods are the 'unmoved movers' of all things moving, the source of eternal motion; his ideas regarding the nature of God have been used by Jewish, Christian, and Islamic philosophers.

*Galileo - a practicing Catholic

*Pythagorus - was a member of a cult; believed in various gods and that mathematics could explain the nature of the world

*And finally Marcus Auralius - believed in the Stoic philosophy of devine logos, a great logic that controlled and was the universe, that all beings are a part of; a pantheist.

So, Snoopy, which one was the athiest?

Who's the 'fucking retard' now?

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 01-31-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Originally posted by Snoopy:

"Theist" shouldn't be a profession in my eyes, seen as how theists don't do shit for humanity, safe for making it more stupid.

Socrates, Aristotle, Galileo, Pythagorus, and Marcus Auralius all believed in powers higher than themselves. I guess that means they didn't do shit for humanity. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



fool.

I think snoopy meant "theology" with the term "their studies" you don't need to be a theologian to believe in god.

saying that you do is non-sequiter logic.

so tell me, what has theology done to improve the quality of life for humanity?

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

so tell me, what has theology done to improve the quality of life for humanity?



That's not the argument. Snoopy stated that 'theists don't do shit for humanity'.

I say, theists are just as helpful to humanity as atheists. There are theists out there that have made significant scientific and mathematic discoveries. In a thread dedicated to saying that atheists are 'enlightened beings', I felt it a point that needed to be made.

To answer your question, theology has played a major role in motivating those who have achieved greatness. Like a few of those I listed.

Aristotle was a student of Plato, who was a student of Socrates. Socrates was motivated to question the wisest men he could find when the god of Delphi said he was the wisest man. Had Socrates not believed in the god of Delphi, he wouldn't have sought out to prove the god wrong (which he was unable to do), thus he wouldn't have had followers (no Plato), and Plato wouldn't have taught Aristotle. There would have been a whole philosophical revolution that wouldv'e never taken place had it not been for the religious beliefs of Socrates.

Pythagorus, by his religion, was obsessed with numbers. To him, they were the key to revealing the laws of nature. Would he have discovered the pythagorean theorem otherwise? What else would have motivated him to study the planets as he did?

So theology improves the quality of life by motivating great minds to achieve what they might not be capable of otherwise. I'm not going to say that theology can't be detrimental to society as well. I know it is in some cases. But those who place some faith in it shouldn't be cast aside as inferior humans, hopeless to ever greatly improve to humanity.

This whole thread is based on hostility and an ignorant superiority complex. First the idea that atheists are inherently greater, more intelligent people than theists. Followed by the idea that theists are incapable of contributing anything to humanity. I mean...you can't be serious, can you?

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 01-31-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

I didn't call them 'theists', Shithead.

Do you even know jack shit about anyone I mentioned? Let me elaborate:

*Socrates - believed that the god of Delphi said he was the wisest man; some speculated he believed in reincarnation, but it was known that he believed in the gods

*Aristotle - Aristotelian Theology, the gods are the 'unmoved movers' of all things moving, the source of eternal motion; his ideas regarding the nature of God have been used by Jewish, Christian, and Islamic philosophers.

*Galileo - a practicing Catholic

*Pythagorus - was a member of a cult; believed in various gods and that mathematics could explain the nature of the world

*And finally Marcus Auralius - believed in the Stoic philosophy of devine logos, a great logic that controlled and was the universe, that all beings are a part of; a pantheist.

So, Snoopy, which one was the athiest?

Who's the 'fucking retard' now?



i'm talking about the modern world shitterhead, yes! in .BC everyone believed in some kind of god, but i like to think we live in enlightened times, those still stuck in the past should either move on or fuck off, why should us atheists have to put up with crap from you "theists"?

i don't believe in any kind of afterlife, and i think its true! there is no afterlife! so you just carry on deluding yourselves, it won't matter, when your consiousness ends you won't know anything either way, your relatives will burn your corpse and say nice things at your funeral, a man in a white cape will say these things called "prayers" and people might sing some "hymns" but you won't be there, your life will have already ended, just like everyone that has died since apes first walked the land.

i actually take great comfort in the fact that my life will end one day, its a very arrogant way of thinking to think your life will continue.

attack my beliefs! come on! the fact is i don't have a set of "beliefs" so if you manage to persuade me to believe something, and i think its true(my critical faculties are excellent) then i will take them on board, fact is nothing ive heard about any religion that has convinced me. the fact is i find religious people to be boring, stupid and bigotted against other religious people.

What are you talking about 'crap from you theists'???

I don't give athiests crap. To be honest, I do understand where their coming from. I have good friends that are athiests. I don't relish in 'attacking the beliefs of others'. But I do defend my own beliefs (especially when people accuse me of being ignorant in believing them). If you think there's no God, and you have no 'soul', go ahead.

I like to believe that anything is possible. I base my beliefs on what I feel is most probable. Is it possible that we have no souls, the universe is a random mess, and there is no God? Yeah. But because of my own experiences and lessons in life, I've chosen to believe the opposite. I don't know what ever happened to you that caused you to hate theists so much. http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

"Theist" shouldn't be a profession in my eyes, seen as how theists don't do shit for humanity, safe for making it more stupid. In fact, they don't do anything at all, and shouldn't be paid jack shit for their "studies".

Scientists do all kinds of useful shit, like healing cancer and inventing more powerful weapons.



Notice how he used the word 'profession' and 'studies'? I think he's using a definition of the word 'theist' that extends beyond simple belief in god. Now a simple question, who gets paid for matters involving god? theologians and what does the study of god refer to? theology.

hence your arguement is a straw-man.

as to your response it's a huge slippery slope.

now giving alternate answers to your questions,

Socrates never set out to prove go wrong.

Hellenism has very little to do with numbers.

what motivates atheist scientists to study the world around us?

finally all of this does not help christianity one bit, if anything it's a proof that polytheistic theology helps the world. So convert to polytheism.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

What are you talking about 'crap from you theists'???

I don't give athiests crap. To be honest, I do understand where their coming from. I have good friends that are athiests. I don't relish in 'attacking the beliefs of others'. But I do defend my own beliefs (especially when people accuse me of being ignorant in believing them). If you think there's no God, and you have no 'soul', go ahead.

I like to believe that anything is possible. I base my beliefs on what I feel is most probable. Is it possible that we have no souls, the universe is a random mess, and there is no God? Yeah. But because of my own experiences and lessons in life, I've chosen to believe the opposite. I don't know what ever happened to you that caused you to hate theists so much. http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

" What are you talking about 'crap from you theists'"

is this post an oxymoron? im talking about ^that kind of crap.

yeah i have a "soul" if what you mean by that is emotions and a brain. but even in this aspect you religious people are stunted. i don't need some man in a white cape or belief in the afterlife to nourish it. my "religious experiences" come from really just thinking about things, or watching the sunlight stream through the clouds(it really gets the endorphins flowing) just the wonderment at being alive, i don't need a whole set of bullshit to cope with dying, i know that i am just part of this world and when i die the world will still carry on and hopefully i will have contributed somehow to life on this planet.

Is this discussion about professional theologians? If so, why was the broad term 'theists' used?

http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

And:

"When told that the Oracle of Delphi had revealed to one of his friends that Socrates was the wisest man in Athens, he responded not by boasting or celebrating, but by trying to prove the Oracle wrong. So Socrates decided he would try and find out if anyone knew what was truly worthwhile in life, because anyone who knew that would surely be wiser than him."

Source (http://tinyurl.com/73uqp)

And you're correct that most Hellenism had nothing to do with numbers, but not the Pythagoreans (http://tinyurl.com/8rfct), who believed that all things can be explained using mathematics. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:what motivates atheist scientists to study the world around us?

You already know the answer. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Basic human curiousity.

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

finally all of this does not help christianity one bit, if anything it's a proof that polytheistic theology helps the world. So convert to polytheism.

When did I ever say anything about helping Christianity? I just wanted to disprove the idea that theists contribute nothing to humanity, as it seemed the OP and Snoopy were implying. I'm not trying to convert anyone; just defend myself. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

" What are you talking about 'crap from you theists'"

is this post an oxymoron? im talking about ^that kind of crap.

Dude...I wasn't giving you crap. That was a serious question. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:yeah i have a "soul" if what you mean by that is emotions and a brain. but even in this aspect you religious people are stunted. i don't need some man in a white cape or belief in the afterlife to nourish it. my "religious experiences" come from really just thinking about things, or watching the sunlight stream through the clouds(it really gets the endorphins flowing) just the wonderment at being alive, i don't need a whole set of bullshit to cope with dying, i know that i am just part of this world and when i die the world will still carry on and hopefully i will have contributed somehow to life on this planet.

And what did I say in my last post to you? About everything you just typed? "Go ahead." That's it. You don't need a whole set of bullshit to cope with dying? Good for you.

'Tis no reason to deem all 'religious people' inferior to yourself or fellow atheists. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176

http://tinyurl.com/cpzs8

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Originally posted by Snoopy:

"Theist" shouldn't be a profession in my eyes, seen as how theists don't do shit for humanity, safe for making it more stupid.

Socrates, Aristotle, Galileo, Pythagorus, and Marcus Auralius all believed in powers higher than themselves. I guess that means they didn't do shit for humanity. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Yeah...but they were philosophers and scientisits...not professional theists. Professional theists don't do shit. It's perfectly fine to have a belief in a god or gods...but it doesn't do shit to help anyone but yourself. Using your belief as a motivation for studying various areas of science (that is, knowledge), however, is useful, and is what those men did.

Yes, I misunderstood. http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Is this discussion about professional theologians? If so, why was the broad term 'theists' used?

http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/confused.gif)

And:

"When told that the Oracle of Delphi had revealed to one of his friends that Socrates was the wisest man in Athens, he responded not by boasting or celebrating, but by trying to prove the Oracle wrong. So Socrates decided he would try and find out if anyone knew what was truly worthwhile in life, because anyone who knew that would surely be wiser than him."

. He set about questioning everyone he could find, but no one could give him a satisfactory answer. Instead they all pretended to know something they clearly did not.

Finally he realized the Oracle might be right after all. He was the wisest man in Athens because he alone was prepared to admit his own ignorance rather than pretend to know something he did not. Sounds like a theologian to me. Because theologians never pretend to know something they clearly do not.



Source (http://tinyurl.com/73uqp)

And you're correct that most Hellenism had nothing to do with numbers, but not the Pythagoreans (http://tinyurl.com/8rfct), who believed that all things can be explained using mathematics. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

and which do you think came first elephantitis, his love of numbers or forming a religion based on numbers? I'll also call correlation implying causation.

When did I ever say anything about helping Christianity? I just wanted to disprove the idea that theists contribute nothing to humanity, as it seemed the OP and Snoopy were implying. I'm not trying to convert anyone; just defend myself.



I'd be happy to discuss the matter futher at s14.invisionfree.com/Scarface_clan



[This message has been edited by Fundokiller (edited 01-31-2006).]

Just so you know...many of the pioneering medical practices are led by your so-called theists, the ones you seem to think contribute nothing to modern society.

Check this out: one of the best hospitals in the nation is owned by the Mormon church: http://tinyurl.com/7mpbq

It has some of the most advanced healthcare in the nation. Now go ahead and say they contribute nothing.

Edit:

OK, nevermind. I guess you guys were talking about professional theists. I do agree that it is true they don't contribute much if anything to society.



[This message has been edited by chubbyman25 (edited 01-31-2006).]

i know, so some hospitals are run by christians, so what, i was born in an adventist hospital.

they are merely implementing science there, they aren't discovering anything new or pushing the boundaries of knowledge. if it was up to the church we'd be living in the dark ages, there would be no anatomy because no one would be allowed to disect bodies, actually it wouldn't be that they are not allowed, but that the thought of doing something like that just wouldn't occur to a devout christian, because they have feeble minds.



also, if your religion doesn't conflict with your understanding of the world, can i get an admission that evolution is true please? come on.

Actually one open-heart procedure was pioneered by a general authority of our church. One of our Apostles is big scientist, too. http://www.lib.utah.edu/spc/mss/ms477/477.html

He was president of the American Chemical Society in 1963, and president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 1965. Is that just following and using what other scientists have done?

that doesn't mean anything, everyone in utah is a fucking mormon, if you're born in utah, you are a mormon whether you like it or not.

ive been baptised into the C of E doesn't mean i give a fucking hoot for anything christian. technically i'm a christian, on my census form it says "anglican" it still doesn't mean i actually believe any of it.

also watch this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176

I'm pretty sure he believes it since he is an apostle of our church...

But just because you are born in Utah doesn't make you a Mormon. Where I used to live here half of our street weren't members.

In general, your post just didn't make sense. And most people that are baptised Mormon actually believe in it, at least all of the people I knew did.

And what does trading spouses have anything to do with real life?

she's a real woman, those are her beliefs, it shows how christians are.

in general i despise all religious people.

including you, you fucking idiot. your a mormon eh? so that makes you what? amazing, get a fucking grip.

also, can you admit that evolution is the truth? if you still persist in your idiotic delusions, then get the fuck outta my thread, you are not worth my time.

[This message has been edited by TerminatorVinitiatoR (edited 01-31-2006).]

The one thing I agree with in your post is the that the ability to change is so positive. If something presents itself as a better alternative to the pursuits of science and knowledge, I'll take it.

But considering the infinite possible ways of comprehending reality "Atheism" technically isn't any higher than christianity.

On second thought, it is higher, but the distance between atheism and christianity is microscopic compared to the higher possibilities.

[This message has been edited by AsylumSeaker (edited 01-31-2006).]

To TerminatorVinitiatoR:

In reality, absolutely nothing can be proved as truth.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

To TerminatorVinitiatoR:

In reality, absolutely nothing can be proved as truth.

That's no reason to believe in something that has no evidence in favor of it, and in which the evidence actually implicates is completely wrong.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

To TerminatorVinitiatoR:

In reality, absolutely nothing can be proved as truth.

that is the attitude that christianity/mormonism gives you, why don't you just kill yourself right now, your life is pointless

If you beleive in the possibility of an absolute truth, you'll only stop your progress completley. Maybe we can work out something which works 99% as good as the "truth". Maybe what we have now is still only 60% as good. Its entirley possible that we could find something that works better than the truth.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

that is the attitude that christianity/mormonism gives you, why don't you just kill yourself right now, your life is pointlessThat isn't the view I have, I was just making a point. You can't claim atheism as an absolute truth.

Wow. So many ignorant comments being thrown about in here.

Atheists and agnostics have a better understanding of the world from their point of view. Christians have a better understanding of the world from their point of view. Its usually only where the two meet that you get problems like this, because theyre mostly incompatible with each other.

For most people, I would guess that their mental usage != mental potential.

Bullshit believers in gods are the only ones with hope to cling to. I dont believe in any god. I give myself hope.

We dont really /need/ anything.

Science isnt /the/ understanding of how the world around us works. It is /an/ understanding of it. An analytical one at that. Scientific method is also completely deficient when it comes to observations (the sources of hypotheses), of which there are potentially infinite.

Trauma? Who knows. I dont buy it as a reason for increased chance of turning to a god though.

Evolution a fact? Really? Why is it still called the THEORY of evolution then?

There are alternate explanations for /everything/. Evidence is not in favour of one thing or another by itself; it must be interpreted. As such, you can find evidence for anything you like. Insisting that someone abandon their "delusions" and admit evolution to be the truth is quite funny, really. Hypocritical much?

In reality, nothing can be absolutely proven as truth indeed. That isnt an attitude that christianity/mormonism gives you, and it doesnt make your life pointless.

quote:Originally posted by DarkMage35:

In reality, nothing can be absolutely proven as truth indeed. That isnt an attitude that christianity/mormonism gives you, and it doesnt make your life pointless.

Yep, Descartes' Method of Doubt. The only thing a human can ever be 100% certain of is that he or she exists. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

The only thing in science that really contradicts religion is evolution, and even that hasn't been proved.

This is exactly why you can't be religious AND scientific... Evolution has been proven beyond any doubt in the scientific community, which is why you are ALLOWED to TEACH it... For fucks sake you christians are ignorant...

Scientist CAN NOT and WILL NOT teach a theory that HAS NOT been proven... simple as that... It is the most tested theory we have, next to water evaporation...

Edit: Does that mean that it proves the bible wrong?.. No... Science does not prove or disprove the supernatural... If God was Natural then science could prove it...

[This message has been edited by Axiom (edited 01-31-2006).]

Some of you are still missing the point: A theologist, JUST a theologist, will accomplish zero useful goals in their life. If they happen to have hobby interests in the sciences, however, they are likely to make an impact in those fields of knowledge they worked in on the side.

The apostle in the Mormon church who heads that hospital; yes, a theist, but it isn't his belief that helps people out, it is his want to help the world that ends up helping people out...now whether the motivation is belief driven, or curiosity driven, doesn't really matter. Belief in a supreme being, by itself, helps nobody but the believer. Same with innate curiosity. One must choose to use their beliefs or their curiosity to motivate themselves towards advancing the world...it doesn't happen by itself.

And besides...atheists and theists are both fucking chimps at the base level. Once one thinks they are enlightened more than another is usually when they're at the most ignorant stage possible.

quote:Originally posted by Axiom:

Scientist CAN NOT and WILL NOT teach a theory that HAS NOT been proven... simple as that... It is the most tested theory we have, next to water evaporation...

[/B]Do you have any idea how many so called "proven" theories that have been taught have now been proven wrong? Every day scientists are coming up with new theories and disproving old ones. That is exactly why they are "theories" and not "laws." And evolution may be the most tested theory, but if it is that's sad they still call it a theory, whereas I'm pretty sure water evaporation isn't a theory.

Care to give an example of a theory that modern science taught and believed in that has been disproven?

Laws are observations of the universe...they don't need testing. They're not facts. Theories are explanations of laws, which while based upon evidence, facts, other theories, and observations, are sometimes flawed. Evolution is both a law and a theory. The law is that species, over time, have disappeared and appeared. The theory is mostly related to HOW the species have come about and gone away. Theories do not become laws. A theory is as close to a fact as modern science will call something. Now, if it were the hyothesis of evolution, you might have a case...but the hypothesis has already been proven to be workable and probable in the current framework of evidence, thus it moved to the highest eschelon of probability, called a Theory.

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

Do you have any idea how many so called "proven" theories that have been taught have now been proven wrong? Every day scientists are coming up with new theories and disproving old ones. That is exactly why they are "theories" and not "laws." And evolution may be the most tested theory, but if it is that's sad they still call it a theory, whereas I'm pretty sure water evaporation isn't a theory.

You have a erronous view of what "theory" and "law" mean in Science.

"Theory" does not mean guess, approximation, estimation, or any other similar words. A theory in Science is something that has been tested countless time and has withstood all attempts at refutation.

More importantly, a theory does not become a law as laws are not "theories that have been proven", they are different things all together. Hence, you saying that evolution is a "theory not a law" is meaningless; evolution will always be a theory no matter how many times it has been corraborated. Just like heliocentrism is a theory.

What do Atheists have to adapt to? The ever-changing lack of a god?

No offense to any Atheists, I'm just curious. It seems like a pretty end-all solution: there's no god and that's it...

I don't think that people should just say, "lol, there's no god." Many religions consider the god to be just a spirit so I suppose that one might propose that the collection of energy in the universe is the god. It all depends though.

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

What do Atheists have to adapt to? The ever-changing lack of a god?

No offense to any Atheists, I'm just curious. It seems like a pretty end-all solution: there's no god and that's it...

This is why I don't like the word "A-theist". Not beleiving in god shouldn't be the definition of this way of thinking. We need a new word. Theists can be "A-" whatever word we choose.

You could do what I do, call yourself Agnostic... all the benefits of Atheism with none of the drawbacks

Well uh.. the word "Agnostic" more or less translates to "without knowledge".

I think I'd rather not try to come up with a title for myself anyway.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

I don't think that people should just say, "lol, there's no god." Many religions consider the god to be just a spirit so I suppose that one might propose that the collection of energy in the universe is the god. It all depends though.

there IS no god, its a theoretical construct, with absolutely no basis in reallity, what has god EVER done? who has ever seen smelt heard or measured the presence directly or indirectly of god?

its simply bullshit, thats what i'm trying to get at, its plain lies, it made up, its a load of steaming bull, there is no other stuff, that we can't see, smell, measure or detect! there is nothing that we can't detect. if there is something, that we can't detect, then it is pointless, and might as well not exist, because it can never affect us in any way,.

also, what is the point of "prayer" and "worship" these are pointless things, if we can't measure or detect any influence of this so called "god" then what does all this pointlessness achieve?

"god" is made up.

i mean, look around you, if there

WAS a god, surely everyone would believe in the same god! but no, different groups have different delusions! some people believe in lots of godS some people believe in a GOD, i prefer to stick to believing in real things, things that you can touch, feel, measure, see, these are the real things, not some made up being that only exists within your own mind! can you not understand how stupid you are!?

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

there IS no god, its a theoretical construct, with absolutely no basis in reallity, what has god EVER done? who has ever seen smelt heard or measured the presence directly or indirectly of god?

its simply bullshit, thats what i'm trying to get at, its plain lies, it made up, its a load of steaming bull, there is no other stuff, that we can't see, smell, measure or detect! there is nothing that we can't detect. if there is something, that we can't detect, then it is pointless, and might as well not exist, because it can never affect us in any way,.

also, what is the point of "prayer" and "worship" these are pointless things, if we can't measure or detect any influence of this so called "god" then what does all this pointlessness achieve?

"god" is made up.

i mean, look around you, if there

WAS a god, surely everyone would believe in the same god! but no, different groups have different delusions! some people believe in lots of godS some people believe in a GOD, i prefer to stick to believing in real things, things that you can touch, feel, measure, see, these are the real things, not some made up being that only exists within your own mind! can you not understand how stupid you are!?



Can you tangibly measure love and hate?

[This message has been edited by King_Cotton (edited 02-02-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

there IS no god, its a theoretical construct, with absolutely no basis in reallity, what has god EVER done? who has ever seen smelt heard or measured the presence directly or indirectly of god?

its simply bullshit, thats what i'm trying to get at, its plain lies, it made up, its a load of steaming bull, there is no other stuff, that we can't see, smell, measure or detect! there is nothing that we can't detect. if there is something, that we can't detect, then it is pointless, and might as well not exist, because it can never affect us in any way,.

also, what is the point of "prayer" and "worship" these are pointless things, if we can't measure or detect any influence of this so called "god" then what does all this pointlessness achieve?

"god" is made up.

i mean, look around you, if there

WAS a god, surely everyone would believe in the same god! but no, different groups have different delusions! some people believe in lots of godS some people believe in a GOD, i prefer to stick to believing in real things, things that you can touch, feel, measure, see, these are the real things, not some made up being that only exists within your own mind! can you not understand how stupid you are!?

First of all, capitalizing stuff makes you cool.

Secondly, the main point of a religion is not truth. It's to establish unity among a people and help to define and enrich the culture. With many religions (including Christianity), it's also about helping people.

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:



Can you tangibly measure love and hate?



yes i can measure love and hate.

it would be possible to measure the changes in the chemistry of the brain and corresponding electrical activity in the brain. the amplitude of the activity in a region, and the mass of certain neurotransmitters and their concentrations in various parts of the brain would allow me to accurately say if someone is experiencing the emotion of "love and "hate". also i capitallise stuff to emphasise it, i can't be arsed to make it italics with this clunky system so i CAPITALLISE IT.

Tangibly measure zero then. When youre done, explain why it was overlooked so much in ancient western number systems.

Are you trying to tell us love and hate are related to zero? Seems to me love and hate would be more likley to relate to say one and negative one.

Newtonian Physics.

Why would I be trying to say love and hate are related to zero? I only said zero because its something thats very difficult if not impossible to tangibly measure.

quote:Originally posted by DarkMage35:

Why would I be trying to say love and hate are related to zero? I only said zero because its something thats very difficult if not impossible to tangibly measure.

Poop, man! You can't measure zero because there's nothing to measure.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Poop, man! You can't measure zero because there's nothing to measure.

Can't measure zero of what? I'm pretty sure you can take a measurement of zero pounds. This is especially true for vector measurements, such as in the acceleration of an object where you can have both positive and negative values.

quote:Originally posted by OMr_duckO:

You are an idiot.



Couldn't have said it better myself

I am neither an athiest nor a beliver in any religion (i think it is similar to agnostic, but not really)

Yes I belive we have a creator, but in the very very loose sense of the word, people always assume the absolutes, there is either no God(s) or there is God(s). But so many fail to realize that we are living organisms, and our brain and thought capacity is actually quite limited, (it may be superior to that of other creatures on earth, but, that does not mean anthing but)The way I look at it is, human beings looking to understand God and life and purpose is the equivalent of a flea trying to discover the mathimatical equation of pi(which most people can't even do), it is so far beyond its comprehension that it is foolish to even imagine it doing so, much like it is foolish for us to even state that we know who "God" is and whatnot.

People get offended by this because it means they have no control and that they are almost completly insignificant, hich scares them, but just because they are afraid of it does not mean that it is not true, much like im afraid to get my cock caught in a meat grinder, but it still is possible.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

yes i can measure love and hate.

it would be possible to measure the changes in the chemistry of the brain and corresponding electrical activity in the brain. the amplitude of the activity in a region, and the mass of certain neurotransmitters and their concentrations in various parts of the brain would allow me to accurately say if someone is experiencing the emotion of "love and "hate". also i capitallise stuff to emphasise it, i can't be arsed to make it italics with this clunky system so i CAPITALLISE IT.

But can you measure the pure emotion of it? Can you touch love? Can you touch hate or sadness or joy or apathy? No, but they still exist.

Can you touch faith? No, but it still exists. Faith in God is a feeling, an emotion. For you to knock that is to knock someone for feeling, which is what makes us human. In essence, you're knocking us for being human.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

atheists and agnostics have a better understanding of everything, and are better equiped to cope with the world than christians are, because by its nature atheism and agnosticism are constantly changing ideas, christian beliefs are solid immovable ideas based on aincient beliefs that have been proven incorrect.

ie. atheists ideas are free to adapt to the situation, religious people have to be told how to adapt to a situation. hence atheists=enlightened christians=neurologically inferior.

my mother wonders if you were molested by a Church Leader....were you?

quote:Originally posted by chubbyman25:

I don't understand why atheists just assume that if you believe in God you know nothing of science or the world around you. Science is the understanding of how the world around us works, and whether or not you believe in God it is still a knowledge you should have.

Because it makes them feel safe in their lack of belief.

Science is all an atheist has. It IS their religion.

Therefore, anyone that doesn't agree with them [that there is no God] must not understand science.

Here's an idea digital, instead of telling atheists what they think, let them tell you what they think.

in response to your insulting straw-man, there are thousands of christian scientists, I would never say that belief in god constitutes lack of understanding of science, It's just that god cannot be proven in accordance with the scientific method which, in my mind, is the best way to find out facts about the external universe.

However science is not my only guide. my moral actions are generally guided by utillitarianism.

Fundo, I've been an atheist. I don't need to ask them.

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

But can you measure the pure emotion of it? Can you touch love? Can you touch hate or sadness or joy or apathy? No, but they still exist.

Can you touch faith? No, but it still exists. Faith in God is a feeling, an emotion. For you to knock that is to knock someone for feeling, which is what makes us human. In essence, you're knocking us for being human.



If you were to stick your finger into a persons brain at the spot right where the love signal was being transmitted, then sure.. you'd touch love. Or at least mess with it pretty good.

quote:Originally posted by thedevilsrighthandman:

my mother wonders if you were molested by a Church Leader....were you?

no, but my brain was molested once or twice when i was forced to go to church to attend funerals or weddings. which brings me onto the point of what the fuck is the point of these pointless ceremonies....actually i suppose the churches have to get money somehow.

just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.

for all your enlightenment, you have nothing to live for. have fun.

I live for my freinds.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Fundo, I've been an atheist. I don't need to ask them.

What happened? You got gang raped by a group of crack smoking niggers and converted to Christianity

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Can't measure zero of what? I'm pretty sure you can take a measurement of zero pounds. This is especially true for vector measurements, such as in the acceleration of an object where you can have both positive and negative values.

Well, okay. I'll just assume that you're right.

It's been a while... hmm...

You guys are so funny but didn't you stop to think that you really can't prove either way so any discussion of it is merely speculation.

I'm guessing you all have a firm grip on Reality so I'll leave you be. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by OMr_duckO:

You are an idiot.

Seconded.

Also, Christian ideology (Jewish, too) is very fluid; it evolves constantly -- it leaves people behind every time it does so, but it does evolve constantly.

Besides atheists, like christians, have no set viewpoint.