Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’

Heh...yeah, and atheists claim Christianity is the evil religion of the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Why bother with religious texts? They're all equally stupid. Seriously, I just don't see the point. Who the fuck wrote that anyway?

Can't you people like, just get high and have some fun or something along those lines?

What are you gloating about? Discovering evil in islam? I think most atheists would tell you that all religions are evil. Since christianity is the dominant religion you aren't going to direct attention away from it with such hypocritical posts. If you remembered something about a balk in your eye, you would deal with many of bible's atrocities before quoting that.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



Heh...yeah, and atheists claim Christianity is the evil religion of the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Yes, because atheists say that religions are "evil", and moreover, that there is only one "evil" one in the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’

Heh...yeah, and atheists claim Christianity is the evil religion of the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

http://tinyurl.com/9gnnw

Make of it what you will.

Edit: TinyURL'd

[This message has been edited by jsaxton14 (edited 02-04-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’

Heh...yeah, and atheists claim Christianity is the evil religion of the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Yea I agree thats fucking bullshit. But christianity has much of the same.

http://tinyurl.com/b7dv9 (old testament)

http://tinyurl.com/dod4h (new testament)

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Why bother with religious texts? They're all equally stupid. Seriously, I just don't see the point. Who the fuck wrote that anyway?

Can't you people like, just get high and have some fun or something along those lines?

I do that, too. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:

What are you gloating about? Discovering evil in islam? I think most atheists would tell you that all religions are evil. Since christianity is the dominant religion you aren't going to direct attention away from it with such hypocritical posts. If you remembered something about a balk in your eye, you would deal with many of bible's atrocities before quoting that.

There was nothing in the way of gloating in my post. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

When I find new things in the Qur'an that show what a sweet, peaceful religion they are, I post them.

Nowhere in the Bible are we told to treat women like animals...that they are stupid, and good for nothing other than having sex.

Also, Christianity, which I subscribe to, doesn't condone "atrocities" of any kind, and if you'd read it, you'd know that.

What the Jews did in the OT is on the Jews.

I would agree with atheists that religion is evil, since it is an institution founded by MEN.

Faith in God is not a religion. How many times do I have to say that before you start to get it ?

Now take your hostility and shove it.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Yes, because atheists say that religions are "evil", and moreover, that there is only one "evil" one in the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)





No other religion comes under fire as much as Christianity, which is ridiculous, considering the content of the ENTIRE Qur'an.

Every new thing I find just solidifies my opinion regarding the world's RIDICULOUS accusations that "fundamentalism" (to which they always attribute Christianity) is the downfall of the planet.

Christianity does NOT command it's followers to completely disregard people for their race, gender, or belief.

We are to love ALL people, no matter what.

Yet we are compared to THESE people.

*shakes head*

quote:Originally posted by NightVision:

Yea I agree thats fucking bullshit. But christianity has much of the same.

Where ?

Show me the verses, please, because I've been through the whole thing at LEAST 4 times, and have never seen anything like it.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

http://tinyurl.com/b7dv9 (old testament)

http://tinyurl.com/dod4h (new testament)



First of all, the Old Testament has nothing to do with me as a gentile Christian. Those laws and commandments applied to the Jews.

As for the New Testament verses, it is obvious that women are equal in God's eyes, as far as importance(value) is concerned.

However, we are to be subservient to our husband's, and I don't see how that is even remotely similar to calling us stupid, and worthless for anything other than sexual relations.

Subservience is respect, not slavery.

Also, Religious Tolerance is not exactly known for it's tolerance of CHRISTIANITY, so I hardly see how their spin on female equality in the Bible is relevant. I could take each of those verses, give you the exact history, explain the context AS INTENDED BY THE AUTHOR (God), and prove that what Religious Tolerance is attempting to prove is a fallacy.

But you already know it is, so I won't waste my time. You were around for the thread I did about women, and I hardly see why I should school you on this topic again.

This is what happens when you read the Bible with Catholic eyes.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



No other religion comes under fire as much as Christianity, which is ridiculous, considering the content of the ENTIRE Qur'an.

Every new thing I find just solidifies my opinion regarding the world's RIDICULOUS accusations that "fundamentalism" (to which they always attribute Christianity) is the downfall of the planet.

Christianity does NOT command it's followers to completely disregard people for their race, gender, or belief.

We are to love ALL people, no matter what.

Yet we are compared to THESE people.

*shakes head*

1. None of that justifies your blatant dishonesty in accusing atheists of, a) saying religions are "evil" and b) saying that there is only one "evil" one, Christianity.

2. Christianity comes under fire more because of the simple reason that there are many more Christians on totse than there are Muslims. There are also more posts made by Christians on totse than there are posts made by Muslims.

Moreover, the majority of atheists here have at least some knowledge of Christianity, be it because they themselves were raised Christians, or come from families which practice Christianity. The same cannot be said, at least not to any similar extent, of Islam.

Thus, it comes at no surprise that Christianity is discussed more often on totse.

3. "Fundamentalists" does not in any way, shape or form, mean disregarding people based on race, gender or belief. Thus, even if Christianity does not discriminate based on those characteristics, Christians can still be considered fundamentalists. That is a strawman on your part.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 02-04-2006).]

Wait... do you believe that men made up those laws in the Old Testament, and not God? Or do you believe in the God of the Old Testament at all?

^^Good question.

Digi, you'll also have to explain to me how anyone can spin God's word. They didn't paraphrase, they simply posted the bible quotes. You can't put spin in that.

I'm not sure what she means by:

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

This is what happens when you read the Bible with Catholic eyes.[/B]

Nobody has bothered to mention that those verses are from the hadith, not the quran. The quran clearly states that to punish a woman for lewdness, you have to provide 4 reliable witnesses. If you can't do provide witnesses, it is assumed that you are trying to spread rumours about the girl, and will proceed to kick your ass and never trust you again.

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

I'm not sure what she means by:

Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

This is what happens when you read the Bible with Catholic eyes.[/B]

Digital Savior is a bigot against Catholics and anyone who doesn't share her interpretation of the bible, and she thinks I'm a Catholic(though I've told her repeatedly that I'm not). She thinks this is an insult. Basically, take it as evidence of her pettiness and idiocy.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

As for the New Testament verses, it is obvious that women are equal in God's eyes, as far as importance(value) is concerned.

However, we are to be subservient to our husband's, and I don't see how that is even remotely similar to calling us stupid, and worthless for anything other than sexual relations.

Subservience is respect, not slavery.



If you can't see how being made to be subservient is a mild form of slavery at best, then you truly are blind. throughout the bible men are allowed to have more than one wife. Doesn't this also show disrepect to the first wife as it is like telling her she isn't good enough? and in case you'd like to know some of the verses, here you go.

Genesis

4:19 And Lamech took unto him "two wives": the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

Genesis

26:34 And Esau was forty years old when he took "to wife Judith" the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, "and Bashemath" the daughter of Elon the Hittite:

Genesis

28:9 Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the "wives" which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his "wife".

Genesis

31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set his sons and his "wives" upon camels;

Exodus

21:10 If he take him "another wife"; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

this verse talks about men selling their daughters,

Exodus

21:7 And if a man "sell his daughter" to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

This verse implies the God doesn't value females, only males.

Exodus

23:17 Three items in the year all thy "males" shall appear before the LORD God.

Exodus

34:23 Thrice in the year shall all your "menchildren" appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

this shows again how he favors males even in sacrifice,

Leviticus

4:22 When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;

4:23 Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish:

Now if a common joe on the street does something wrong he is instructed to sacrifice a female animal. As seen here.

Leviticus

4:27 And if any one of the "common people" sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

4:28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a "female" without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

So the above verses show an equation of kingship/male Common/female.

These are just a few verses in the bible that don't put positive light on woman, but only as property to their fathers and husbands and basically shows the men are more favored in God's eyes.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I do that, too. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Well you should do it more often instead of being a stupid bitch. Ya digg?

I think islam and the middle east in general is fascinating. I'm a polisci major, and I think I'm gonna concentrate in Middle Eastern studies..And I would like to do a little theology on the side.

I was brought up a catholic and I actually BELIEVED in it until I got out in the world and saw what else there was to believe in.

My husband is an Arabic lingust, so consequently I've been around a lot of arabs because of his job. All of the Arabs I've met have been very nice, friendly people. They have also all been very conservative muslums, but from what they told me, most Arabs don't believe the stuff Digital Savior posted in her OP.

Arabs are culturally very friendly, hospitable and kind people because that's how their religion teaches them to be. I think you'll find a lot more to admire about muslums than you will about christians, in general I mean.

My husband used to be a chinese linguist and I have to say the chinese people are misunderstood as well.

*Yawn* A woman judging a religion based on its tolerance of women is like a Jew in a German camp trying to pick a kosher shower stall.

[/thread]

I find the whole premise of this thread distastefull. You're going to dig through religious text that not only do you not believe in the slightest so you will inherently gather no positive knowledge from it, since you'd intellectually sabotaged yourself before even opening it, but you're specifically looking for passages to enhance your belief that you are right and they are wrong. What a christian attitude. Digging through a religious text soully for the purpose of making someone else look bad or feel inferior, despite that you've probably taken whatever passage you qoute completely out of context because you didn't really really read it with your heart open to it.

I find this all very childish. You're not discussing religion, you're trashing it.

Cheers,

Lost

[This message has been edited by LostCause (edited 02-07-2006).]

*agrees with Lost*

What an amazing thread this has turned into. When i read the first post I expected a bunch of "islam is blah", instead I had one of the most profound reads Ive read all week. I love you totse posters. I would have blindly agreed with digi had I not read the comments.

Can't say it better than that.

Searching to disprove is searching with blind eyes. Only through searching to prove and failing can something be proven false and thus impart knowledge. What you are doing is akin to cutting your eyes out and attending an art gallery.

Yeah, those quotes are fake. I would like to see you find them from a credibale Islamic site. The only place I could find it was on that idiot Prophet of Doom's site. Craig Winn.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’

Heh...yeah, and atheists claim Christianity is the evil religion of the world. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Hey, I dislike Islam alot more than Christianity. There's just alot more of you around, and it's alot more important to most people to have valid reasons to leave the religion of their parents. Finding fault with Christianity has a personal signifigance. My sister didn't get me "The case for Allah" for Christmas. It was "The case for Faith (sequal to The Case for Christ)" I had to spend Christmas day slogging through.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Wait... do you believe that men made up those laws in the Old Testament, and not God? Or do you believe in the God of the Old Testament at all?

The original 613 or so commandments that were observed by the Jews were given to them by God.

JEWS. Not Christians. Not gentiles.

Also, Christ's life and death fulfilled the 613 laws.

The only two commandments we really HAVE to follow now are 1. Love God more than anything else, and 2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

All the other commandments stem from those two, in one way or another, essentially.

When you love God more than anything else, you will not want to sin, and when you love everyone else as much as you love yourself, you won't want to sin against them (stealing, lying, murdering, cheating, etc).

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

^^Good question.

Digi, you'll also have to explain to me how anyone can spin God's word. They didn't paraphrase, they simply posted the bible quotes. You can't put spin in that.

Tell me what you think I am spinning, and I will clarify.

Don't accuse me of something until you are sure you understand what I am saying, please.

The point was, the God of the Old Testament is the same as the one of the New Testament. He made the rules that the Jews followed.

"First of all, the Old Testament has nothing to do with me as a gentile Christian. Those laws and commandments applied to the Jews."

It just sounded like you didn't really care for the Old Testament laws that much. So that's why I was wondering.

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

I'm not sure what she means by:

What I mean is they are the epitome of all that God abhors.

They revel in idolatry, gluttony, sexual perversion, lust, greed, and many, many other sins.

We all sin...so this is not really the thing I have a problem with. It's that it is INDOCTRINATED into their religion (aside from the sexual immorality), which they use as leverage to control people, and divert their attention from God.

They hoard their gold and precious artwork, which is worth MILLIONS of dollars, while people all over the world starve.

Jesus had no possessions, and dedicated his life to healing the sick, and saving the lost. Do you see the drastic difference in appraoch between Christ and Catholicism ?

The Saints the Catholics have "deified" were just people. We are not instructed ANYWHERE in the Bible to worship "saints". By wearing chains with their likeness on it, how can that be likened to anything other than adultery ? What about the candles with the faces of saints on them ? The coins ? It never ends.

God states CLEARLY that He is a jealous God. He doesn't want us giving our attention, allegiance, affection, or loyalty to ANYTHING or ANYONE (living or dead) else. Our relationship with HIM is more important than anything else.

Catholic dogma negates God's will, that's all there is to it.

They feel that they can get away with this, because the Church has added and deleted things from the Bible, essentially rewriting God's word to suit their own agenda, which is to gain power, fame, and fortune.

I know the Catholic religion is not of God, because of the "fruit" it produces. No one who TRULY believes in God can come to the conclusions the Catholic Church has in regards to how we are to live our lives (there are exceptions to every rule, and I am positive that there are some truly God-filled Christians in the Catholic Church, so don't think this is lost on me).

They read the Bible, and see what they want to see, not what God is actually saying.

That is what I mean when I say that "this is what you get when you read the Bible through Catholic eyes."

The particular "Catholics" I am referring to are generally the people in leadership roles...the people who have shaped Catholicism throughout history. I am not referring to the average church-goer, though I hold them to the same standard, since their support of the Catholic Church only causes it to flourish.

Napoleon doesn't appear to have a shred of respect for God, or the Bible, and being that he was raised a Catholic, I can see why.

I can only base my conclusions of him on what he has said here on totse, and what I know of the Catholic Church. I could be wrong about Napoleon entirely, but I doubt it.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 02-09-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Digital Savior is a bigot against Catholics and anyone who doesn't share her interpretation of the bible, and she thinks I'm a Catholic(though I've told her repeatedly that I'm not). She thinks this is an insult. Basically, take it as evidence of her pettiness and idiocy.

BIGOT = A person that doesn't agree with you, and has a logical argument to support it. (Napoleon's Dictionary, 3rd Edition) http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

We are taught in the Bible to NEVER stray from the course. We have clear guidelines from GOD on how to conduct ourselves, and Catholicism goes against almost every single Christian tenet we have been given.

I refuse to sit around and let Catholics pervert Christianity. YOU do that well enough without my help.

I will do what God commands, which is to expose idolatry, greed, lust, and anything else that God abhors...consequently, the entirety of what Catholic dogma encompasses.

I have repeatedly stated that you were RAISED Catholic, and you staunchly defend them. How else should I refer to you ? Please tell me what you will be comfortable with, so I can be sure not to hurt your delicate feelings in the future.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Well you should do it more often instead of being a stupid bitch. Ya digg?

I do it plenty often, and it's really none of your business.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/dangcatholics.html

It's usually not considered a good sign when Landover Baptist agrees with you.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

...most Arabs don't believe the stuff Digital Savior posted in her OP.

I wasn't insinuating that they do.

It's obvious that most Muslims are either too "modern" or too "lukewarm" to follow the tenets of their religion, since only a small percentage of them engage in Jihadist activities, and the like.

But the text is clear...whether most Muslims follow it or NOT is irrelevant (though I don't know how one can call themselves a Muslim if they do not follow the commandments given to them by their prophet).

The claim that Islam is a religion of "peace" is simply false. I am glad that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to their religions' more undesirable commandments, but the commandments are there, nonetheless.

That was the point of my OP.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I find the whole premise of this thread distastefull. You're going to dig through religious text that not only do you not believe in the slightest so you will inherently gather no positive knowledge from it, since you'd intellectually sabotaged yourself before even opening it, but you're specifically looking for passages to enhance your belief that you are right and they are wrong. What a christian attitude. Digging through a religious text soully for the purpose of making someone else look bad or feel inferior, despite that you've probably taken whatever passage you qoute completely out of context because you didn't really really read it with your heart open to it.

I find this all very childish. You're not discussing religion, you're trashing it.

Cheers,

Lost



You find everything I say distasteful, and you have made it clear to people you have spoken to in private that you detest me, and are therefore biased against me, and have a tendency to hone in on my threads.

You cannot possibly determine what I believe or not, in regard to Islam. Religious texts are religious texts. I have no problem with the texts that do not incite violence, hatred, oppression, or murder. I DO have a problem with the scriptures that do, EVEN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT OF THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE.

You can stand on your foundation of assumptions, but it will bring you no close to finding out what it is about me that REALLY bothers you....something you should think about.

You also have NO idea which scriptures I have studied, and which I have not. You have ignorantly accused me of cherry-picking for my cause, and that is simply not the case. I am reading the works of Islam in their entirety, though I admit I find it difficult (but for different reasons than YOU'D willingly assume).

I am learning about Islam so that I can understand the fundamental principles, which will help me to effectively witness. If you cannot understand those you disagree with, you haven't got an ice cube's chance in hell of making an impact.

THAT IS VERY CHRISTIAN of me. It's not easy, either...since I have a natural aversion to it. I am still doing it, being knowledge is power.

You have said, "Digging through a religious text soully for the purpose of making someone else look bad or feel inferior, despite that you've probably taken whatever passage you qoute completely out of context because you didn't really really read it with your heart open to it." yet this is precisely what most of the people on this forum do to CHRISTIANITY. This does not bother you enough to address...it is only when you think a Christian has done it to another religion that it bothers you.

Interesting.

If you cannot hold everyone to the same principles, you don't belong here as a moderator.

Stop the incessant trashing of Christianity here, or stop telling me that I can't trash other religions (though that is NOT the purpose of this thread).

It's ironic that by simply posting scripture from Islamic texts, you think I am trashing the religion.

The scriptures themselves gave you that perception, not how I presented it (though you'll never admit that).

quote:Originally posted by Zay:

What an amazing thread this has turned into. When i read the first post I expected a bunch of "islam is blah", instead I had one of the most profound reads Ive read all week. I love you totse posters. I would have blindly agreed with digi had I not read the comments.

I can quote much, much more.

This was but ONE example of the oppression and violence you can find in the Islamic scriptures.

My basic point was that those who claim Christianity is the ultimate evil of the world would do well to read the scriptures of Islam.

Christian opponents seem to purposely avoid pointing out the flaws of EVERY OTHER RELIGION, but hyperfocus on pointing out the "perceived" flaws in Christianity.

It's impossible to demonize Christianity, and not Islam, without standing proud with a badge of Hypocrisy on one's breast pocket.

I am glad this thread has been insightful to you, though, no matter which side you've been swayed by.

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

Can't say it better than that.

Searching to disprove is searching with blind eyes. Only through searching to prove and failing can something be proven false and thus impart knowledge. What you are doing is akin to cutting your eyes out and attending an art gallery.

This was a comparison thread. Not a disproving thread.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Hey, I dislike Islam alot more than Christianity. There's just alot more of you around, and it's alot more important to most people to have valid reasons to leave the religion of their parents. Finding fault with Christianity has a personal signifigance. My sister didn't get me "The case for Allah" for Christmas. It was "The case for Faith (sequal to The Case for Christ)" I had to spend Christmas day slogging through.

Hahahahaha...fair enough. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Thanks for your candor.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

The point was, the God of the Old Testament is the same as the one of the New Testament. He made the rules that the Jews followed.

Oh, yes...He is very much the same God.

Only the context and the approach changed, which was part of the plan to begin with.

quote:It just sounded like you didn't really care for the Old Testament laws that much. So that's why I was wondering.

No, it is not that I don't care for them...it is that they are not applicable to gentiles and Christians.

Don't ever hesitate to ask me if you don't understand where I am coming from. I am more than happy to explain.

Thanks for the question, instead of making baseless assumptions.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

http:// www.landov (http: //www.land overbaptis t.org/serm ons/dangca tholics.ht ml) erbaptist.org/sermons/dangcatholics.html

It's usually not considered a good sign when Landover Baptist agrees with you.

Hahahahaha !!! Being that I don't particularly agree with the Landover Baptist's either, I am sure their motivation for battling the Catholic Church is different than mine.

I think our sole purpose on this planet is to have a fulfilling, spiritual relationship with God. Catholicism tends to rip that away from people, and I can't do nothing about it with a clear conscience.

I am also not religious, so I don't really buy into anything a particular religion says about another religion.

Christianity is as simplistic as this = believe in God and love Him with all your heart.

The rest is just fluff, and religion (which we all know causes strife, division, hatred, and destruction).

Case in point, the Landover Baptists seem to think that ALL Catholics are going to hell, and that is just retarded.

It is possible to be a Christian Catholic, though if you ever find one, they will be very conflicted, spiritually.

That sermon was just sad. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Landover Baptist is a satire of fundamental Baptist Christianity. There are a few groups that are actually like that, only they don't sound as stupid.

As for Christianity being simple, I'd think that taking the Bible as God's inerrant message to the people complicates matters quite a bit... because then you have young-earth Creationism vs. Evolution, apologetics, salvation through baptism, and other stuff like that to deal with.

quote:Originally posted by Chinese Food52:

Yeah, those quotes are fake. I would like to see you find them from a credibale Islamic site. The only place I could find it was on that idiot Prophet of Doom's site. Craig Winn.

Then you didn't look very hard.

1. Learn how to use Google

2. HERE (http://tinyurl.com/b4drg) is a forum of Islamic practitioners, discussing this very topic (the FIRST link I found as a result of a Google search with the Hadith I posted as the search query).

I particularly like how they point out MORE scriptures that teach Muslims to abuse women:

"As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, and beat them, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them." (It does not list the specific Hadith referenced)

This next one confuses me to no end:

"To feed her when you eat, cloth her when you buy clothes for yourself, refrain from striking her face or cursing her, and to not abandon her, except in the house." (this Hadith is said to come directly from Allah.)

So....it's ok to strike a wife in the face, curse at her and abandon her, anywhere but inside of your house ? Erm....ok.

Just to change gears here:

"Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.) reminds men that if they transgress against their wives without justification, then Allah, the Ever Most High, Most Great, is their Protector, and He will exert revenge on those who transgress against their wives and deal with them unjustly."

Ok...so, Allah can be unjust ? Heh.

No kidding !

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

This next one confuses me to no end:

"To feed her when you eat, cloth her when you buy clothes for yourself, refrain from striking her face or cursing her, and to not abandon her, except in the house." (this Hadith is said to come directly from Allah.)

So....it's ok to strike a wife in the face, curse at her and abandon her, anywhere but inside of your house ? Erm....ok.

Just from looking at the verse, it appears to be the other way around.

Edit: oh, I think I see now. It's saying the only place where you can abandon her is if she's inside her house.



[This message has been edited by Clarphimous (edited 02-09-2006).]

Z, kill this shitty little fly.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

What I mean is they are the epitome of all that God abhors.

They revel in idolatry, gluttony, sexual perversion, lust, greed, and many, many other sins.

We all sin...so this is not really the thing I have a problem with. It's that it is INDOCTRINATED into their religion (aside from the sexual immorality), which they use as leverage to control people, and divert their attention from God.

They hoard their gold and precious artwork, which is worth MILLIONS of dollars, while people all over the world starve.

Jesus had no possessions, and dedicated his life to healing the sick, and saving the lost. Do you see the drastic difference in appraoch between Christ and Catholicism ?

The Saints the Catholics have "deified" were just people. We are not instructed ANYWHERE in the Bible to worship "saints". By wearing chains with their likeness on it, how can that be likened to anything other than adultery ? What about the candles with the faces of saints on them ? The coins ? It never ends.

God states CLEARLY that He is a jealous God. He doesn't want us giving our attention, allegiance, affection, or loyalty to ANYTHING or ANYONE (living or dead) else. Our relationship with HIM is more important than anything else.

Catholic dogma negates God's will, that's all there is to it.

They feel that they can get away with this, because the Church has added and deleted things from the Bible, essentially rewriting God's word to suit their own agenda, which is to gain power, fame, and fortune.

I know the Catholic religion is not of God, because of the "fruit" it produces. No one who TRULY believes in God can come to the conclusions the Catholic Church has in regards to how we are to live our lives (there are exceptions to every rule, and I am positive that there are some truly God-filled Christians in the Catholic Church, so don't think this is lost on me).

They read the Bible, and see what they want to see, not what God is actually saying.

That is what I mean when I say that "this is what you get when you read the Bible through Catholic eyes."

The particular "Catholics" I am referring to are generally the people in leadership roles...the people who have shaped Catholicism throughout history. I am not referring to the average church-goer, though I hold them to the same standard, since their support of the Catholic Church only causes it to flourish.

Napoleon doesn't appear to have a shred of respect for God, or the Bible, and being that he was raised a Catholic, I can see why.

I can only base my conclusions of him on what he has said here on totse, and what I know of the Catholic Church. I could be wrong about Napoleon entirely, but I doubt it.



This is why you're a bitch and this is why you will burn in hell.

I'm so fucking disgusted with you and your opinions. You seem like you would be perfectly at home in the Middle Ages, when intelligence wasn't a necessity, just a luxury.

You're a fucking bigot and you're going to burn in hell because of it.

Catholics are WAY more spiritual and loving than your spireful self will ever be. EVER.

If I could slap you over the internet for you being so fucking retarded, I'd do it in an instant. This is just beyond idiotic. I don't know how I can put my contempt for you into words. You just make me sick.

Edit:

http: //www.tots e.com/bbs/ Forum14/HTML/004819.html (http: //www.tots e.com/bbs/ Forum14/HT ML/004819. html)

It'd be nice if you replied in that. I think I've been beyond patient with you.

I'd also be more than willing to discuss Catholicism(provided you can remain civilized, which, judging by your posts you can't) if you were to create a separate thread. I'm not going to respond to insults, so if you're going to create a different thread, try to muster up some actual points first, because slinging insults isn't going to do any good.

[This message has been edited by napoleon_complex (edited 02-09-2006).]

Why can't we just agree that Catholics and Christians are the same?

They're both worshipping the same God anyways.

Jeez, you guys are thinking like the Jews in the Bible (Or was it the Samaritan?). It has been said that Jesus is not just the Savior of the Jews, but the Gentiles as well. Wouldn't this apply to the arguement that Catholics are better/worse than Christians?

Jesus is the savior of everyone who believes in him, whether they be Catholic, or Christian.

Just skimmed this, but remember Digital, you're reading from an English interpretation of the Qu'ran. It's going to have words translated inaccurately, referring to the "unjust" part.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Landover Baptist is a satire of fundamental Baptist Christianity. There are a few groups that are actually like that, only they don't sound as stupid.

Ah, well...I don't spend my time searching for Christian satire.

I wondered when I saw the image at the top that said, "Boasting 125,000 members." LOL

quote:As for Christianity being simple, I'd think that taking the Bible as God's inerrant message to the people complicates matters quite a bit... because then you have young-earth Creationism vs. Evolution, apologetics, salvation through baptism, and other stuff like that to deal with.

The complication of the Bible is not for just anyone. It is complicated to people who do not read it with spiritual glasses on, so to speak. It is a living, breathing document, for people who have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside them (which happens once a person is saved by accepting Christ as their Savior), but everyone else is going to have a hard time digesting it.

John 8:47 - "He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." (NIV)

The Bible is an integral part of the Christian faith...in fact, it's the foundation.

The more you read it, the more you realize that science and history are in alignment with it.

Studying it is the single-most important thing a Christian can do...

1 Peter 3:15 - "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have...." (NIV)

Without the Bible, we would have nothing to base our beliefs on, other than faith alone.

quote:This is why you're a bitch and this is why you will burn in hell.

Ah, here comes the ad hom.

I was wondering when your feigned patience would reach it's limit.

Just so you know, it's not UP to you where I go...

quote:I'm so fucking disgusted with you and your opinions. You seem like you would be perfectly at home in the Middle Ages, when intelligence wasn't a necessity, just a luxury.

Did I make Nappy mad ? Awww.... http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:You're a fucking bigot and you're going to burn in hell because of it.

Care to find scripture that supports that assertion ?

No, I don't suppose you can, since you don't know anything about the Bible.

quote:Catholics are WAY more spiritual and loving than your spireful self will ever be. EVER.

Loving ? You mean....like you ?

quote:If I could slap you over the internet for you being so fucking retarded, I'd do it in an instant. This is just beyond idiotic. I don't know how I can put my contempt for you into words. You just make me sick.

There's some more of that love !

Assault is a felony, kiddo. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:I'd also be more than willing to discuss Catholicism(provided you can remain civilized, which, judging by your posts you can't) if you were to create a separate thread.

1. You just insulted my intelligence, and now you want me to debate you ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

2. I've been perfectly civilized.

3. You don't know how to make a thread on Catholicism ? Or, do you need the uncivilized, retarded, idiotic, bitchy Christian to do it ?

quote:I'm not going to respond to insults, so if you're going to create a different thread, try to muster up some actual points first, because slinging insults isn't going to do any good.

When you can be civilized and leave the insults out of it, I will consider it.

quote:Originally posted by stiffo:

Why can't we just agree that Catholics and Christians are the same?

They're both worshipping the same God anyways.

Catholicism is a religion founded by men.

Christianity is a belief in Christ, which was founded by God.

quote:Jesus is the savior of everyone who believes in him, whether they be Catholic, or Christian.

You are absolutely right, and only God truly knows the heart of His believers.

However, we are told not to endure the manipulation and desecration of the word of God, and that is what the Catholic Church has done.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: Catholics CAN be Christian, but the two are mutually exclusive.

Being a Catholic doesn't save you, being a Christian does !

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

Just skimmed this, but remember Digital, you're reading from an English interpretation of the Qu'ran. It's going to have words translated inaccurately, referring to the "unjust" part.

Ok, this is something I am deeply interested in. I make it a point to have an accurate translation of any old texts, but especially the Bible.

So, this point I can actually entertain.

Do you know where I can get an accurate translation ?

Thanks for pointing that out.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

The complication of the Bible is not for just anyone. It is complicated to people who do not read it with spiritual glasses on, so to speak. It is a living, breathing document, for people who have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside them (which happens once a person is saved by accepting Christ as their Savior), but everyone else is going to have a hard time digesting it.

To the contrary, Christians are the ones who are usually arguing about the interpretation of the Bible. Because inerrantists assume that everything in the Bible is true, they try to "synchronize" different philosophies from the Bible, and in the process they play mix & match with Bible verses. This is why there are SO many different sects of Protestant Christianity. Looking at the Bible from a historical perspective is rather simple in comparison. Different authors of the Bible lived in different times and cultures, and therefore had different viewpoints. You have to have a lot of historical background knowledge, but other than that it's a pretty straightforward interpretation.

By the way, when you get the chance, please look at my "Geneologies of Christ" thread.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Z, kill this shitty little fly.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." -- The First Amendment (http://www.totse.com/)

If &totse hides behind this in order to get away with hosting How To's on everything from drugs to bombs, what kind of irony is to be found in the censorship of someone you don't agree with ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

To the contrary, Christians are the ones who are usually arguing about the interpretation of the Bible.

I agree with that.

quote:Because inerrantists assume that everything in the Bible is true...

2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

I doubt that the Almighty God of the universe is capable of making mistakes, unless done purposely, in which case we'd have no way of knowing one way or another.

Matthew 24:35 - "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Since God says the the word was with Him and IS Him, it is logical to assume it has always existed, even before it was recorded by mankind.

Which means it's the same past, present, and future. Unchangeable. Perfect.

Matthew 5:18 - "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

This is a promise from Jesus himself (A.K.A. God).

What's a "jot" or a "tittle" ? Click HERE (http://www.bible-history.com/backd2/jot_tittle.html) to find out.

quote:...they try to "synchronize" different philosophies from the Bible, and in the process they play mix & match with Bible verses. This is why there are SO many different sects of Protestant Christianity.

You are exactly right, and they are all missing the point.

They should also be corrected on anything they have tried to change, because they are falsely representing God, unless they are acting in accordance with His will and commandments alone.

quote:Looking at the Bible from a historical perspective is rather simple in comparison. Different authors of the Bible lived in different times and cultures, and therefore had different viewpoints. You have to have a lot of historical background knowledge, but other than that it's a pretty straightforward interpretation.

The historical evidence I was referring to is more along the lines of archeological findings. Things we find keep validating what the Bible says.

And yes...the Bible was written by 40 different men, over a span of some 1600 or so years. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:By the way, when you get the chance, please look at my "Geneologies of Christ" thread.

Sure.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

The complication of the Bible is not for just anyone. It is complicated to people who do not read it with spiritual glasses on, so to speak. It is a living, breathing document......unlike the U.S. Constitution.



But seriously, why is this topic considered so awful in this forum that sees relentless attacks on the God of Avraham? Is it that the god of the Ishmaelites is so weak that he needs protecting? Is it an attempt to protect the rest of us from the blind rage in the followers of Islam that inevitably ensues when anyone dares question the wisdom of the Qur'anic revelation? I honestly don't see many of the anti-Torah or anti-Christian topics around here displaying much evidence that the authors read the scriptures in question with an "open heart" to the concepts within. Why are followers of Hashem or the Nazarene held to a higher standard than those without beliefs or those who follow the Prophet of the Ishmaelites?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

You are absolutely right, and only God truly knows the heart of His believers.

However, we are told not to endure the manipulation and desecration of the word of God, and that is what the Catholic Church has done.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: Catholics CAN be Christian, but the two are mutually exclusive.

Being a Catholic doesn't save you, being a Christian does !

Did it ever occur to you that ALL Catholics are Christians? I know that will be hard for your bigoted heart to digest, but did you ever entertain that thought in your mind?

How many Catholics have you ever even met? More importantly, how many Bishops have you met?

Just so you don't have to rack your tiny Christian mind, I'll make the Catholicism thread. The reason I wondered if you wanted to start it is because I know you're the one with the issues and points of debate.

Why do you want to debate a person with such a tiny little mind ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to their religions' more undesirable commandments, but the commandments are there, nonetheless.

Ahem. Sounds like certain Christians I know.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

You are absolutely right, and only God truly knows the heart of His believers.

However, we are told not to endure the manipulation and desecration of the word of God, and that is what the Catholic Church has done.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: Catholics CAN be Christian, but the two are mutually exclusive.

Being a Catholic doesn't save you, being a Christian does !

If you truly believed in the Bible and its values, you would love your neighbor.

You find everything I say distasteful, and you have made it clear to people you have spoken to in private that you detest me, and are therefore biased against me, and have a tendency to hone in on my threads.

- Those are both[/b] false accusations. I do not find everything you say distastefull. That is a cop-out. And I do not go around bad mouthing you, nor do I detest you. I have made a specific [i]effort to be more tolerant of you than you are to me, and I have told many members on many different occasions that when it comes to the topic of you that I will not be subject to gossip. So, you can believe what you want to believe (as usual), but you're wrong if you think I've been talking shit about you. You and I disagree on many subjects - you seem to find this more difficult to deal with than me - but I have seen that you're a good person beneath your... strange exterior.

You cannot possibly determine what I believe or not, in regard to Islam. Religious texts are religious texts.

- You may not remember this because it was some time ago, but you and I actually had a discussion in IRC and you told me that not only have you never read the Quran but that you wouldn't read a text you didn't believe in. So, I have a hard time believing that you've suddenly picked up reading the Quran. At least I have a hard time believing that you've decided to pick it up seriously. Not just looking for passages to make you feel superior.

I am learning about Islam so that I can understand the fundamental principles, which will help me to effectively witness. If you cannot understand those you disagree with, you haven't got an ice cube's chance in hell of making an impact.

- Well, if that's the case then I just have to say - to read any religious text properly you have to read it from beginning to end and you have to pray. I was taught to pray to "The Holy Spirit" to help me understand, of course that doesn't translate well to reading all religious text so I've found the need to alter this. But, I've found it's the only way to properly get information from religious text.

THAT IS VERY CHRISTIAN of me.

- Yea. I know...

"this is precisely what most of the people on this forum do to CHRISTIANITY. This does not bother you enough to address...it is only when you think a Christian has done it to another religion that it bothers you.

- Another cop-out. I address it and I lock threads about it all the time. Athiests complain to me that I block their athiest threads and you pretty much just you complain about me blocking christian threads. But, yea, Digital, frankly I find this kind of thread distastefull and rude to the Muslim/Islamic religion. Just as I have found many other threads rude to Athiests or to Christians or Jews or anything else. I've been running this forum for four years. I more or less have things under control.

Stop the incessant trashing of Christianity here, or stop telling me that I can't trash other religions (though that is NOT the purpose of this thread).

- I'm not trashing Christianity! I've got nothing against Christianity! I'm not the one who made a thread bashing another religion here..

"It's ironic that by simply posting scripture from Islamic texts, you think I am trashing the religion."

- What kind of Islamic text did you decide to post, Digital? Did you post something educational or insightfull? No. You posted some out of context snipits that make the religion look like a woman hating war mongering country, and frankly, we all know that side of their religion. We all watch the fucking news. And I know you're not stupid, so I know you didn't think you were telling us something new, so what gives? Yea.

Your arguments are tired and unoriginal.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Z, kill this shitty little fly.

Not yet. If it gets any worse I might - if anyone starts complaining about muslim intolerance or something I will. But, Digital has something to say... again. Something completely unoriginal to say, but whatever.

Cheers,

Lost

/\ Lawl @ that.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." -- The First Amendment (http://www.totse.com/)

If &totse hides behind this in order to get away with hosting How To's on everything from drugs to bombs, what kind of irony is to be found in the censorship of someone you don't agree with ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Totse doesn't care about your quote.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Not yet. If it gets any worse I might - if anyone starts complaining about muslim intolerance or something I will. But, Digital has something to say... again. Something completely unoriginal to say, but whatever.

Cheers,

Lost

I'll send you a bottle of Champagne. Moët & Chandon or Piper Heidsieck.

quote:Originally posted by God of Toilets:

Ahem. Sounds like certain Christians I know.

Very true...but the premise is the same. Muslims that do not follow their books commandments are not true Muslims, and neither are Christians that don't follow the commandments of God.

Also, the commandments YOU are most likely referring to are Old Testament laws, which do not apply to Christians, and more specifically, gentiles.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 02-11-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by stiffo:

If you truly believed in the Bible and its values, you would love your neighbor.

I do love my neighbors, just as I love the Catholics I know.

My quest to reveal the truth about Catholicism is an act of love...because I know what their relationship with God COULD be like, if only they drop the shackles of religion.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Totse doesn't care about your quote.

Then it should be removed from the homepage.

quote:- Those are both false accusations. I do not find everything you say distastefull. That is a cop-out. And I do not go around bad mouthing you, nor do I detest you. I have made a specific effort to be more tolerant of you than you are to me, and I have told many members on many different occasions that when it comes to the topic of you that I will not be subject to gossip. So, you can believe what you want to believe (as usual), but you're wrong if you think I've been talking shit about you. You and I disagree on many subjects - you seem to find this more difficult to deal with than me - but I have seen that you're a good person beneath your... strange exterior.

Actually, these accusations are completely supportable by logs I have of the very conversations you have had with people who are VERY CLOSE TO YOU.

I can post them publicly, if you'd like. I would recommend that you do not challenge me on this point, unless you don't mind being proven wrong.

It was not a surprise to me that you would resort to lying to cover up your backstabbing and hypocrisy. How unoriginal of you.

I am a good person, but not of my own volition. I am a new creature in Christ, and he can atone for all of my sins...even those I have been powerless to conquer, as of yet.

I have no problem with our inability to agree on the fundamental source of our spirituality, Lost. That is the difference between you and I...I don't have to go behind your back and call you a BULLDOG (and various other venemous descriptions) to feel secure in my beliefs.

That was you.

quote:- You may not remember this because it was some time ago, but you and I actually had a discussion in IRC and you told me that not only have you never read the Quran but that you wouldn't read a text you didn't believe in. So, I have a hard time believing that you've suddenly picked up reading the Quran. At least I have a hard time believing that you've decided to pick it up seriously. Not just looking for passages to make you feel superior.

I doubt that I said I would never read anything I didn't believe in (how could I believe in Christianity without reading the Bible ?), but I may have said that I hadn't read it, at that time.

I have been studying it, for quite a few months now, though I could not determine how long after I began reading it in relation to the conversation you are referencing.

There is nothing about me that is superior. I just happen to believe in God, who trumps all other man-made deities, because He is real.

This isn't about me.

My point still stands, however, that you cannot possibly know what I am or am not doing, so any accusations to that effect are derived from nothing other than personal bias.

quote:- Well, if that's the case then I just have to say - to read any religious text properly you have to read it from beginning to end and you have to pray. I was taught to pray to "The Holy Spirit" to help me understand, of course that doesn't translate well to reading all religious text so I've found the need to alter this. But, I've found it's the only way to properly get information from religious text.

I am well aware of the most beneficial way to study a book.

The site I posted had MANY Hadith's on it that weren't violent. Do you think I missed those ?

The whole point of this thread was to show the unbelievable bias you people have toward Christianity, when the Qur'an, the Hadith's, and any subsequent religious texts relating to Islam are violent, at best.

The difference is, I am reading the Qur'an, and see it's violence, whereas most people here haven't ever touched a Bible, yet never cease to denounce it as the evil of the world.

Also, I do not have to pray to Allah to understand Islam. That's just ridiculous.

Who would I pray to if I were studying the religious texts of Rael ?

quote:- Another cop-out. I address it and I lock threads about it all the time. Athiests complain to me that I block their athiest threads and you pretty much just you complain about me blocking christian threads. But, yea, Digital, frankly I find this kind of thread distastefull and rude to the Muslim/Islamic religion. Just as I have found many other threads rude to Athiests or to Christians or Jews or anything else. I've been running this forum for four years. I more or less have things under control.

There is no cop out here. It is painfully obvious that you are more tolerant of threads attacking Christianity than you are of threads that attack any other religion, particularly when they are MY threads, or when I am posting fervently in them.

If I were the only person I knew who held this opinion, then I might entertain your accusation that I am imagining it. But I'm not the only person.

You also admitted that you have a tendency toward closing my threads...again, an admittance I can show you in the form of a log.

I have no motivation for creating reasons why you dislike me. As a human being, my natural desire is for the exact opposite reaction.

We are just two fundamentally different people, and while you seethe with contempt for me, I do not return the favor.

quote:- I'm not trashing Christianity! I've got nothing against Christianity! I'm not the one who made a thread bashing another religion here..

You misunderstood me...again.

I wasn't saying you were. I was asking you to stop ALL of the Christian trashing threads, or don't ask ME to stop trashing other religions. It's hypocritical.

Also, this threads intent wasn't to bash Islam. It's purpose was to show how ridiculous people are in saying that Christianity is violent, and the downfall of humanity, when we've got MUCH BETTER examples.

quote:- What kind of Islamic text did you decide to post, Digital? Did you post something educational or insightfull? No. You posted some out of context snipits that make the religion look like a woman hating war mongering country, and frankly, we all know that side of their religion. We all watch the fucking news. And I know you're not stupid, so I know you didn't think you were telling us something new, so what gives? Yea.

I consider exposing the violence of Islam educational. Don't you ?

How educational is that thread NiggasWithAttitude posted about Christianity turning people into maniacal, bipolar, gluttonous pigs ?

I posted MORE scriptures from the religion of Islam. I do this often. I don't have to TRY to make it look violent, because it is inherently so.

The problem is that most of these kids don't bother to read it, so they have no idea what it's about...kinda like the Bible.

I'm sorry that you feel the "news" is a good source of information regarding the fundamental principles of ANYTHING, let alone religion, and in particular, Islam.

That's not good enough for me.

quote:Your arguments are tired and unoriginal.

Cheers,

Lost

And your defense was pathetic and ineffectual.

So, I guess we're even.

On the link you gave about the jot (http://www.bible-history.com/backd2/jot_tittle.html) it has a very inaccurate statement. It says the verse in Matthew 5:18 is saying the entire Bible is inerrant. This is false because the Law refers to part of the covenant between God and his people, which is contained in the Torah and possibly including Jesus' new interpretation of the Law in the NT. But it's not the whole Bible it's refering to here.

Oh, and I had just read about the jot a few weeks ago in Asimov's Guide to the Bible, so it's kind of a coincidence you talked about it.

Actually, these accusations are completely supportable by logs I have of the very conversations you have had with people who are VERY CLOSE TO YOU.

- I'm not going to get into a whole gossip bullshit thing with you. Whatever I have said a long ass time ago that you decided to hoard in a log for - I can only imagine your own amusement, that was a long time ago. I do not talk shit about you and I'm not going to defend myself on the subject anymore because it's ridiculous. And I don't care if you post them publicly, because if I did say something rude I said it a long time ago.

My point still stands, however, that you cannot possibly know what I am or am not doing, so any accusations to that effect are derived from nothing other than personal bias.

- My point is that you specifically posted misinforming qoutations that are completely taken out of context. I'm not an incredible advocate of the Islamic religion and everyone should be able to voice their opinions, but this was a really underhanded way of doing that.

The site I posted had MANY Hadith's on it that weren't violent. Do you think I missed those ?

- You certainly didn't highlight them the way you highlighted the violent ones.

There is no cop out here. It is painfully obvious that you are more tolerant of threads attacking Christianity than you are of threads that attack any other religion, particularly when they are MY threads, or when I am posting fervently in them.

- I close these threads because [i]you freaking attack people[i]. This is a message board to share information, opinions, and have discussions. This is not Digital Saviors personal sunday school room where you get to rant at people for pages on end about your beliefs. You attack people and it's not only self-defeating and pointless, but really irritating. Your intolerance for other peoples beliefs is painfull to watch. You consistantly do this and whenever someone says something you can't get out of you accuse them of just hating the Christian religion. I have no bias. I've never had a bias and I don't now. I haven't closed your thread yet, have I?

If I were the only person I knew who held this opinion, then I might entertain your accusation that I am imagining it. But I'm not the only person.

- Who else? I'd really like to know. It's not easy keeping a perfect balance of things in this room. Particularily since I'm dealing with a group of people of which some of you are very unbalanced...

We are just two fundamentally different people, and while you seethe with contempt for me, I do not return the favor.

- O. My. God. You are seriously delusional, Digital. I do not seethe with comtempt for you. I don't have any feelings about you, aside from your offer to Stormy a while back. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned you're just hands on a keyboard, and as it would appear you're the one with the seething contempt.

I wasn't saying you were. I was asking you to stop ALL of the Christian trashing threads, or don't ask ME to stop trashing other religions. It's hypocritical.

- Alright, fine. Of course, there's a fine line between trashing and discussing or sharing opinions. If I think something is trashing then I close it. I always have. If you don't think I'm being aware enough I can try harder, but I only do what I can.

Also, this threads intent wasn't to bash Islam. It's purpose was to show how ridiculous people are in saying that Christianity is violent, and the downfall of humanity, when we've got MUCH BETTER examples.

- So why didn't you say that to begin with? Because you didn't prove that point. All you did was post some Islamic qoutations.

I consider exposing the violence of Islam educational. Don't you ?

- Not particularily. Considering we already know how violent Islam is.

How educational is that thread NiggasWithAttitude posted about Christianity turning people into maniacal, bipolar, gluttonous pigs ?

- I closed that thread! I closed all of his threads and I had him banned!

I posted MORE scriptures from the religion of Islam. I do this often. I don't have to TRY to make it look violent, because it is inherently so.

- Another cop out.

Cheers,

Lost

CAT FIGHT!!!

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I do love my neighbors, just as I love the Catholics I know.

My quest to reveal the truth about Catholicism is an act of love...because I know what their relationship with God COULD be like, if only they drop the shackles of religion.

That's not what the Bible verse means. It's easy to love the people you know. But can you love the people who you don't know?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Then it should be removed from the homepage.

An idiot does not decide on what should be on the front page of totse and what shouldn't. The staff can put up whatever they see fit.

quote:Originally posted by stiffo:

That's not what the Bible verse means. It's easy to love the people you know. But can you love the people who you don't know?

As you try to catch me in hypocrisy, you are barred by false assumptions.

By "neighbors", you assume I meant literally. As in, the people next door.

The "neighbors" Jesus was referring to weren't literal neighbors, so why would you assume that when I say it, I am being literal ?

By neighbors, I mean everyone...or at least I try my hardest to.

I know very well what the verse means, else I would not use it.

I said I love my neighbors, which means "everyone", just as Christ meant it, but I added a special inclusion: Catholics. I felt it was necessary to point out that though I do not agree with them, I still love them.

People with narrow minds here on totse have also wrongfully assumed that because I do not agree with their religous dogma, I must hate the people practicing it's tenets. That is not so.

All clear ?

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 02-13-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

An idiot does not decide on what should be on the front page of totse and what shouldn't. The staff can put up whatever they see fit.

I wasn't making the decision, you were.

If you want to censor me simply because you don't like what I have to say, then you shouldn't be the moderator of a site that has the First Amendment on it's front page.

I know you knew that this is what I meant, but just as a good troll should, you manipulated it.

Here's one to make your gag reflex kick: God loves you, no matter how much you hate Him. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Nobody is trying to censor you, you attention whore. We kind folk of the totse staff just enjoy a good idiot reaction. And your idiot reaction is a fun one to observe. So you just enjoy your pride in your stupidity.

How about that Champagne, Z? You know this place is worthless without the bubbleywine.