Tell me your views.

A cause of war, yes. THE cause of war, no.

It is just a tool to unite.

I'd say human nature is the cause of war. People just have a tendency to disagree with others.

well, the middle east wouldnt be the mess it is now without religion, would it?

Tons of people are executed for their religious beliefs, which seems so dumb and pointless to me...

but i cant think of a single war that was started purely because of religion.

[This message has been edited by Some Old Drunk Guy (edited 02-28-2006).]

After the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment in Europe, not many religious wars were started anymore. When the ways of the Europeans met with the ways of other cultures, the other cultures had learned to take in European culture, because they were the "dominant" culture (I say dominant because they had, and still do, have the best technology for the most part). Therefore, religion took a backseat to things like science and technology, which had proved to have more tangible evidence of how the world works than religious explanations.

So religious wars are started in places where industrialization lacks, is the way that I see it. Religious wars in developed nations are uncommon, as it should be.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

A cause of war, yes. THE cause of war, no.



Sure it is. It's all in the rutes.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:



Sure it is. It's all in the rutes.

You mean roots? Not trying to be mean, just clarifying.

In the end all conflict can be brought down to either Money, religion or a basic human emotion be it Love or the feeling of revenge or something.

quote:Originally posted by Sgt. Lag:

After the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment in Europe, not many religious wars were started anymore. When the ways of the Europeans met with the ways of other cultures, the other cultures had learned to take in European culture, because they were the "dominant" culture (I say dominant because they had, and still do, have the best technology for the most part). Therefore, religion took a backseat to things like science and technology, which had proved to have more tangible evidence of how the world works than religious explanations.

So religious wars are started in places where industrialization lacks, is the way that I see it. Religious wars in developed nations are uncommon, as it should be.

Name me one war fought for religion. a few were started with the battle cry being religion but none were really about religion. Not even the reformation was really about religion by the end the 30 years war was more of a territorial dispute. Even the wars in the middle east are not fought for religion, a few are fought in defence of religion but if you have ever read Thomas Hobbes you know that after years of civil war stability is better than freedom. The middle East wasnt really that bad until after the british left and devided it into nations disregarding religion ethnic background and tribal lands. Hell it was the same in germany until about 1870. and then Europe had two world wars. In china it is estimated that over 30 million people died because of the Taiping Rebellion, then another 100 million are estimated to have died in the Chines Civil war involving the communists and the nationalists. So the real cause of war is Imperialism

quote:Originally posted by iSoape:

You mean roots? Not trying to be mean, just clarifying.



haha Shit! I knew it didn't look right. Freaking immigrant!

Then what about the crusades?

Faith is a problem (but not the only cause of war). Suicide bombers think they have the ticket to heaven, evangelicals and jews think god promised the land of israel to the jews, christians in general think non-christians will go to hell. These faith-based beliefs do lead to conflict. It's inherent, if you believe your neighbors are going to hell how can you respect them, and how would you feel if they expressed their beliefs to your family (thereby possibly endagering their souls)?

Lot's of people in this planet think that god wrote a book, problem is they cant agree on which one... These people don't make good neighbors (especially in the national sense).

quote:Originally posted by fuckwar89:

Name me one war fought for religion.

Crusades. The initial idea was to take back the Holy Land. It was obviously somewhat territorial, but the Papacy's first priority probably was to kill the Muslims.

Also, it would've been better for me to say that religion plays a heavier role in less industrialized areas rather than starts them. Of course there aren't many outright wars for religion that continue to be that way throughout the war, but sometimes it is part of the cause.

Also, Christians and Muslims have had a Cold War-esque thing going on until the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment, when Western Europeans (primarily Christian) took a huge technological and scientific leap. But before that, Christians and Muslims had been competing to convert natives of conquered areas, solely because they didn't want the other group to. So in a sense, that can be considered a religious "war".

So a war has been waged between two religions between 700 (when Islam had taken hold) to about 1500 (when primarily Christian empires had lept forward).

Conflict is human nature, especially amongst the uneducated and impoverished, for reasons beyond count. Most often it comes down to some form of greed, disagreement, or simple hatred of those who are different. Religion is often a source or a catalyst for these. Religion, however, is uniquely inflammatory because of the way it labels non-followers as evil.

As for those who don't know of wars based on religion... THE CRUSADES, maybe?! Also, the civil war that's escalating in Iraq is based on religion.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

In the end all conflict can be brought down to either Money, religion or a basic human emotion be it Love or the feeling of revenge or something.

That sounds about right, except lets change money into capitol. Capitol being land, labor, and resources.

[This message has been edited by iSoape (edited 03-01-2006).]

War is usually about one group wanting to take something from someone else.

Religion is just another thing to

seperate us from them, to put

them in a different "moral sphere",

where it's okay for people to do

horrible things to each other

"for god".

No. Greed is the cause of war. Religion is just an excuse.

Cheers,

Lost

The justification, yes. The cause, no.

[This message has been edited by One_Armed_Scissor (edited 03-02-2006).]

they use the religion as an excuse to fight

religion is a tool to divide people and then to rule them, look at bush, he professes to be a christian, and promotes christianity in america so people will follow him anywhere, when really bush is a devil worshipper connected to the same druidic cults that hitler was, which stage mock(sometimes real) human sacrifices.

(skull and bones, bohemian road, aleister crowley)

Religion just puts people into different classifications and makes them feel different then everyone else. Somehwere in our human nature I think people feel a need to prove superiority over other groups that are "different." Think high school, you have your skaters your jocks your smart kids etc. Think race, think poor and wealthy think black, white, mexican, big, small, fat, skinny, left handed, right handed, etc etc. I am a non secular person as far as religion goes, but i think it is natural for people to search for reason of why they are different and categorize as so. Religion is only part of the problem but a big part albeit.

there really are only 2 reasons for the cause of war:

1: religion

2: military/goverment expansion

Somtimes a combination of both, due to perfeived RIGHTS to expansion based on religion

George W Bush - Thinks God told him to go to war with Iraq.

Tony Blair - Recently said the same thing.

Go to Spurious Generalities and read the "these pricks anger me" Topic, very interesting.

quote: And on the open road we came to a sign

For it was foretold that the weak would inherit

And nothing would change

Here we are at the crossroads, standing face to back

Still afraid to see our eyes

I feel helpless and alone, trapped on the thid stone

Sitting here sideways on a cold stone floord

My guitar gently bleeding and wanting more

When I heard a sound come rapping,

Tapping on my door

Hello, I'm happy to meet you

In your confidence is it safe?

Sit down I'm happy to greet you

To feed your greedy dog at the edge of the stage?

But before, before you slam the door

Tell me when, tell me why, tell me what this fucking life is for

We fly through this godless endeavor

We try to explain the black forever

I feel helpless and alone, trapped on the third stone

I feel permanently stoned, this godless endeavor the only cage I've known

Our organic equation has shown it's flaw

Can we agree to disagree on the concept of god?

As I lifted up my brother he said to me

"Abandon naive realism, surrender thought in cold precision"

I feel empty and deranged, denied one last epiphany and ushered from the stage

Thou shalt not question, the role of science is not to eliminate god

As alternative gods multiply science stands accused of theocide

Consume, conform

The children sitting in the trees, they turn to laugh at me

They tell me that I'm insane, but in my mind I know I'm to blame

Alone within my lunacy, dementia fills the void within me

No testament, prayer or diseased lament can heal my wounds

They are so discontent

All the faithful fall onto their knees

And praise the priests of industrial disease

We contemplate oblivion as we resonate our dissonance

In godless random interpretation

The universe still expands, mankind still can't understand

How to define you, so hide your face and watch us exterminate ourselves over you

Welcome to the end my friend, the sky has opened

quote:Originally posted by iSoape:

Tell me your views.

Sin is the case of wars. Mankind's selfish ambition is the casue of wars. To say that 'religion' is the cause of war is to undermine the root cause.

Too stupid. Too overdone.

Cheers,

Lost