Most Christians seem to think that the Bible is a divine book with hundreds if not thousands of prophecies. My challenge: post a single prophecy that has been fufilled and meets the following basic criteria:

1: It must be specific

2: It must regard something provable

Please only post one prophecy at a time, as I am an engineering student with a social life and job (I'm busy). Also, let's stay away from Bible codes in this thread.

MESSIAH:

The Anointed One

The single greatest hope for the devout Jew is the coming of their awaited Messiah. The “Moshiac” (Messiah), is a Jewish man who will bring peace on earth and establish Israel at the head of all nations. Since the time of Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to David, to the Prophets, even until now, they have eagerly been awaiting their beloved Messiah. In this timeframe, there have been many false-messiah’s. Despite all of these counterfeits and imposters, the Jewish nation stand resolute, that their Messiah, will indeed, come for them and establish true peace on earth. In order to be Moshiac, one must fulfill the requirements of the Scriptures.

• Moshiac must be Jewish: “… you may appoint a king over you, who your God shall choose: one among your brethren shall you set as king before you.” –Deuteronomy 17:15

• Moshiac must come from the tribe of Judah: “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes.”

-Genesis 49:10

• Moshiac must be a male descendant from the line of David: “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish His kingdom.

-2nd Samuel 7:12

• Moshiac must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem: “… I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.” –Ezekiel 37: 26-27

• Moshiac will establish peace on earth: “They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn of war anymore. –Micah 4:3

• Moshiac will rule at a time when Jews will obey God’s commandments: “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall have one Shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.” –Ezekiel 37:24

If any of the prophetical criteria is missing, then claimant simply cannot be the Messiah. The interpretation of the passages, concerning Moshaic, is what separates many from the truth. Nonetheless, we see that Messiah come’s from the blessing bestowed upon Abraham, a righteous man from ancient times.

“In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” –Genesis 22:18

Abraham had a son, Ishmael, in which he assumed the blessing would come. However, God told Abraham: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name, Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.” –Genesis 17:19

And so, Isaac begat Jacob, who begat 12 sons of his own. These sons would establish the 12 tribes of Israel, from which they are so named even to this day. God reveals that of the twelve sons, the fourth, ‘Judah,’ would be the one through whom the Messiah would come out, of. After a stretch of time, David was hailed as the greatest Jewish king to sit on the throne of Israel. David ruled for approximately 1,000 years prior, to Yeshua (Jesus). God informed David that his descendant would rule forever. We see that God has decreed that there would be a king who will rule forever and that he would come from the nation of Israel. This narrows messianic eligibilty down for any prospects. As well, Messiah will specifically come from the tribe of Judah. These two restrictions significantly narrow down the eligible list of candidates for the Messiah. In lieu of their awaited Messiah, the Jews have been marvelous traditionalists, moreso than any other peoples on earth. They have managed to keep, not only their heritage, culture, language, and religion throughout three dispersions, but have also managed to salvage genealogical records, as well. Statistically speaking, this cultural survival of theirs is unheard of. No other culture that has, ever been supplanted, has been able to maintain its culture and beliefs past 500 years, at the most. The Jews have managed to do this for literally thousands, and thousands of years. It is not surprising to know that this survival is directly associated to the supernatural. However, it is equally important to know that the cause of their dispersions, are also, attributed to the supernatural. For years, the prophets of old preached for Israels return from their apostacy. Very few listened, despite revelations coming to fruition with remarkable accuracy. Indeed, it has proved that when God speaks we should listen. Very few people would heed the call. Generation after generation would turn to their own ways and of the ways of gentiles, and thus, Israel has been in perpetual chaos, ever since. This truth is more than evident, even today. How is it, that a nation the size of Rhode Island can continually be the focus of the world’s hatred?

The year was 30 AD. The Roman Empire at this time was well situated all throughout the old world. A vast expanse, stretching from Europe, the Middle East, and Asia Minor is completely under the control of Ceasar. Palestine was no exception. The independence of the Jews was taken in 68 BC, when Pompey of Rome took Syria and entered into Israel. By the time 33 AD, the people were sick and tired of being under Roman rule. To add insult to injury, the puppet king in Israel, ‘Herod the Great,’ was a cruel man who followed everything Julius Ceasar would command. What was probably worse, Herod was not even a Hebrew, but rather, an Idumean. In 30 AD, this was a time, like no other, when Israel was looking for their messiah king. It is important to understand the tone of these times, both religious and political. In these days, it was the religious leaders, of the day, that held power in Jewish society. In them, we have opposite ends of the spectrum, in personality and influence.

Pharisees: The name, literally means, ‘Separatists.’ They depended heavily on the Scribes and were loyal to the religion of Yahweh. Their emphasis was strict observance to the Law and strong attachment to the ‘Mishna’ (oral law). And so, these religious men were very pious, very rigid in their interpretation and very legalistic. They focused on the letter of the Law, rather than the Spirit of what the Law was trying to bring out.

Sadducees: The name, though not literally, meant, ‘Righteous.’ Whereas the Pharisees were strongly, connected with the scribes, the Sadducees were connected to the High Priest. These positions were more, earthly in nature, because they were formed more out of political and social reasons, rather than an obedient one. They viewed no relationship between the need for holiness and the destiny of their nation. The Sadducees were very liberal in their interpretation of the scriptures and of God.

Hasmoneans: They were otherwise known as, ‘Herodians.’ They followed Herod and Rome, and felt that it was best that Israel conform to Roman rule and adopt their principles. This political caste was very interested in the politcal aspects of Judaism, but never seemed able to come to terms with an intimate connection. These were the traitors of the day and most Jews at that time had no respect for them.

Cananaens: Otherwise known as, ‘Canaanites.’ They were a zealous group who refused to concede allegiance to Rome. Their view was that God only helps those who help themselves. In this way, they had very little connection to God as far as any relationship is concerned. Instead, they projected a fiery nationlistic spirit against their occupiers and were well-known to the Romans as instigators.

Essenes: These were a group of psuedo-spiritualists, who fled to the land of Qumran. They felt that must live a monastic life away from anything worldly in order to be good and loyal to Jews to Yahweh. Though they had a deep resect for God and His Word, they lived mostly an upright life. Despite this, they lost all consciousness of evangelical ministry, very similar to the modern-day, Amish. They were content to allow Israel to burn in her apostacy and forget all about it, by sealing themselves up in their own affairs.

As we’ve read, there was a tone of dissension althroughout the land of Palestine at this time. None of these five groups seemed to be in agreement over anything. With the exception of, perhaps the Hasmoneans, every Jew was ready for the Messiah to bring them out of Roman rule. The Jews of this day were looking for an obvious figure, a king who led them to victory once, and for all. They were looking for a soldier, a warrior, a leader, a king, who would war with the Romans and bring them out of captivity. Who did they get instead? They got a gentle carpenter, from a largely gentile land, known as, Galilee. But they received him, not.

Allow me to digress for a moment, as we take a look into Scripture that we might be able to ascertain the identity of the Messiah. In the Talmud, a collection of traditions and commentaries from post-Biblical periods, it makes mention of two messiah’s. There is one, who suffers, and is, rejected. The other, who preceeds him, will reign gloriously. The one who suffers, is known as, ‘Mashiac ben Yosef,’ because like Joseph of Genesis 37, he is rejected by his own brethren, but only to be ultimately glorified by God. Thus, this messiah will be rejected by the majority of Israel. The second, ‘Mashiac ben David,’ is named as such for two reasons. Like David, of the Tenach (Old Testament), he will reign gloriously as a king and subjugate the gentile nations under Israel. As well, as we shared earlier, this messiah must come from the geneaological line of David. Invariably, its been assumed that these are two separate individuals. Humanly speaking, this is completely understandable. However, is this really the case? What would happen if Rabbinical scholars have been looking for two messiah’s, instead of one Messiah, at two different times? What does the Word have to say about it?

There is an unquestioned amount of doubt concerning Jesus from all sides of the spectrum. If we were to ask different cultures and people with various beliefs, we would receive conflicting answers. Some people believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not a Son of God. Others believe that He was a righteous man, but that He was not a Son of God. Others believe that He was a trouble-maker who stirred the people to dissent. Others believe that there was a man, named Jesus, but that His personage, moreover, His diety, has been highly exaggerated. And still others believe that Jesus did not even exist, but that He is a complete fabrication. In my exegesis, we will go through and dispell all the notions against Jesus. We will see that no other Name has been more villafied, more admired, more hated, and more loved, than that of Jesus of Nazareth. We will clearly see that irrespective of our personal beliefs, one man can change the course of history forever, and by doing so, see how He split time in half, from the ancient world to the new. Even supposing that Jesus was just a man, the mere fact that people are so captivated by His personality speaks volumes. Nonetheless, the debate rages on, even after 2,000 years. So let us begin by debunking any notion that the man, named Jesus, did not exist. Many in opposition of Christendom have maligned His nature by claiming that Christ is just another god-man. Many god-men, such as, ‘Mithra’ (Persian), ‘Dionysus (Greek), Krshna (Indian), have existed, even prior to Christ’s birth. Interestingly enough, I don’t see anyone radically pursuing these god-men with the same fanatical and irrational hatred that we see for Jesus. This, in and of, itself should tell us that these others have no power. But, I believe that when people hear about Jesus, there is this innate sense of something real; something that transcends the others out of a dynamic personality that is unrivaled. To be fair, one could question His deity with a reasonable amount of suspicion, but to say that He never existed at all is wishful thinking on the claimants part. For the sake of the argument, in this opening portion I will use nothing taken from the Scriptures, but will initially present my argument based solely on extra-biblical evidence of His existance.

1. Flavius Josephus: (37 AD – 101 AD) Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born four years after Jesus’ physical death. As evidenced by his writings, Josephus was quite familiar with the turmoil in Palestine during the Roman occupation. As well, Josephus wrote about central figures of the New Testamental period.

a. Josephus makes mention of John the Baptist: “Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, called the Baptists: For Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God. And so to come to Baptism; for the washing would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away of some sins, but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thouroughly cleansed beforehand by righteousness.”

b. Josephus makes mention of Jesus: “Now, there was about that time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as to receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men among us, had him condemned to the cross. Those that loved him did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again on the third day; as the divine prophets had fortold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct to this day.”

c. Josephus makes mention of James, the brother of Jesus: “Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called the Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned; but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done.”

d. Josephus makes mention of Ananias, the High Preist: “Now as soon as Albinus was come to the city of Jerusalem, he used all his endeavors and care that the country might be kept in peace, and this by destroying many of the Sicarii. But as for the high priest, Ananias, he increased in glory every day, and this to a degree, and had obtained the favor and esteem of the citizens in a signal manner; for he was a great hoarder of money.”

2. Tacitus: (55 AD – 117 AD) Tacitus was a Roman historian who makes mention of the early Christians.

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians, by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had it’s origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontious Pilate. A most mischevious superstition, thus checked for a moment, broke out again not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular… And perishing they were additionally made into sports: they were killed by dogs by having the hides of beasts attached to them, or they were nailed to crosses or set aflame, and, when the daylight passed away, they were used as nighttime lamps… people began to pity these sufferers, because, they were consumed not for the public good but on account of the fierceness of one man.”

3. Thallus: (52 AD) Thallus was a historian who wrote about the the Eastern Mediteranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Here, Thallus records an eclipse of the sun, contemporaneous with the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. “On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.” And this was also recorded in Luke’s gospel. What is most interesting is that Jesus was crucified on the Passover, which is on a full moon. It is not phyiscally possible for an eclipse to occur on a full moon. “And it was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until about the ninth hour, the sun being obscured; and a veil of the Temple was torn in two.” –Luke 23:44-45

4. Pliny the Younger: (112 AD) Pliny was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. He here, in his tenth book, makes mention of Jesus. “They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, never to falsfiy their word, nor dent a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food, but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”

5. The Babylonian Talmud: (33 AD) This is the actual recording by the very men that ordered the execution of Jesus. *Take note of His charge* “On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ‘He is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything on his behalf, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.” So, we see that Jesus was crucified for supposedly leading others away from the Law and for sorcery. This corroborates the gospels magnificiently, as we see extra-biblical evidence of His miracles and of His teachings, even though He did NOT teach against the Law. “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, ‘Cursed is every one who hangs from a tree.” –Galatians 3:13

6. Lucian: (120 AD – 180 AD) Lucian, a Greek writer and rhetorician, speaks of the early Christians. “The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day- the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account… You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them. And then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and to deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they quite take on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.”

Though most of these accounts are resoundingly negative, we must remember that this aversion is common reaction towards Jesus and His followers, even today. It seems, then, that Christians have been persecuted from the very beginning as opposed to some sort of complex that we suffer from, which many have claimed. What is important to remember is that these historians mention Jesus Christ as an actual and factual person in human history. To put it bluntly, there is far more evidence to support the fact that Jesus existed, moreso than any other historical figure. Afterall, we don’t see the existance of Plato being questioned with the same tenacity, now do we? I wonder why that is. Now that we’ve sufficiently proven that Jesus did in fact exist, let’s move on to His deity.

We know that mankind was in need of a future Redeemer because of the original Fall of man, spoken of in Genesis. All men have been building up Adam, as ‘ben,’ in Hebrew, means, ‘builder.’ In Biblical times, it was the father’s seed that counted towards lineage, not the mother. Even today, tradition maintains that a son or daughter from a marriage typically takes the surname of the father. This is precisely why intermarriage was forbidden in Biblical times. Hypothetically, an invading foreign army with aspirations of establishing a new regime could impregnate Israelite women, and so, lose their heritage by way of attrition. This was not done out of issues of race, as so many have presupposed. Even today, a Jewish person is considered either a ‘Cohen’ (Priest), or a ‘Levy,’ (Levite), according to who is father is. Many Davidic kings on the throne of Israel had Gentile mothers. Did this make them Gentiles from the Tribe of Judah and the family line of David?



“But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from old, from everlasting.” –Micah 5:2

“For unto us, a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the governement will be upon His shoulder. And His Name will be called, ‘Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.’ Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His Kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgement and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”

–Isaiah 9:6-7

The prophet, Micah and Isaiah, wrote these prophecies some 700 years prior, to Jesus’ birth. In these messianic prophecies, they describe the Messiah as being eternal. We know that only God is eternal, and so, Messiah cannot be merely a mortal man, but rather, something greater than that. Aside from this glaring point, since when is a man, any man, referred to as ‘Mighty God’ and ‘Everlasting Father?’ So what else are we to deduce, other than, that the Messiah is God incarnate? Its evidence is all over the Old Testament prophecies and clearly fulfilled in the New Testament. The Old Testament is said to be the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. Truly, we see this duality and harmonization althroughout the Scriptures, given us, by God. There is no duplicity between the texts, but rather, they are homogenous. Aside from this, any man who might claim to be the Messiah has heavy burden to overcome. In all actuality, it is physically impossible to overcome. We know that Mashiac will come from the line of David. But as we will see, the line was essentially cursed from the time of the prophet Jeremiah. Just as Israel was going into exile, God made two declarations that first appeared contradictory about the last Davidic king over Judah, Jehoiachin (or other translations, ‘Coniah’). The first declaration was that of his physical descendants, no one would ever sit upon the throne of David, in spite of the fact that they would continue to inherit the rights to the throne. How can this be?

“Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know? O’ land, land, land, hear the Word of the Lord! This is what the Lord says: ‘Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah.” -Jeremiah 22:28-30

Well, this really presents a problem for everyone in Davidic lineage to inherit the throne, isn’t it? How can the Messiah overcome this? The second declaration makes it clear, if we have ears to hear and eyes to see. There was also a promised ‘Branch’ who would raise up the throne and sit upon it.

“In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch sprout from the line of David; He will do what is just and right in the land. In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the Name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord Our Righteousness.’ For this is what the lord says, ‘David will never fail to have a man sit on the throne of the house of Israel.”

–Jeremiah 33:14-17

Thus, we see that the Messiah is not a son of Adam, but rather, a Son of God. Because Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, rather than, by the will of a husband through natural procreation, He did not inherit the curse of Jehoiachin. However, because Joseph was His legal gaurdian, and Joseph and Mary were both from the line of David means that ONLY Jesus could still sit on the throne and avoid the curse. Jesus elucidates this point to the Pharisees by showing that David himself has considered the Mashaic to be God in the flesh.

“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, ‘What do you think about the Christ (Messiah)? Who’s Son is He?’ They said to Him, ‘The son of David.’ He said to them, ‘How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies a footstool?’ If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?’ And no on one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to question Him anymore.” –Matthew 22:41-46

Jesus is exactly right…. (not that this should come as a surprise). How can David say, “Then the LORD said my Lord,” if he was not talking about God? Who is the Lord? The Lord is God, right? David himself is pointing out the deification of the Christ, and very plainly, that the Lord, the Messiah, is God the Son and that the LORD God, is God the Father. These are very clear teachings, and yet, the vast preponderance simply does not want to believe this truth because of its implications. But, Jesus was very clear. He essentially stated to the religious elite, if you know God, as you claim to do, then you would know who I AM; as it is very evident by your lack of fruitfulness, that you do not know who I AM.

In the four gospels of the New Testament, each writer has unwitting part in the deification of Christ. Matthew presents Jesus as the Messiah, the King of the Jews. Mark depicts Him as the Servant of God. Luke portrays Him as the perfect Son of Man, focusing on His humanity. Johns presents Jesus as the very Son of God. Make no mistake, when Jesus came before them with His teachings that surpass any human wisdom, and with His miracles, there was no doubt in their minds as to who He was.

“Who is the Christ (Messiah)? So they said to Him, ‘Some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.’ He said to them, ‘But what about you? Who do you say, I AM?’ Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You’re the Christ, the Son of the Living God.’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by My Father in heaven.” –Matthew 16:14-17

There is little else for us to surmise, when we read the clear prophecy given to us by Isaiah.

Behold, My Servant shall deal prudently; He shall be exalted and extolled and be very high (by God)… Who has believed our report? (Who believes Christians?) And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? (Who amongst us has humbled himself, in order to understand who God is?) For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. (Jesus grew up like a regular little boy). He has no form or comliness; and when we see Him, there is no bueaty that we should desire Him. (there was nothing in Jesus, that by sight, we might understand who He is). He is despised and rejected by men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. (Jesus was rejected, smitten, scorned, beaten, and battered, because we did not care to listen to Him). Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His STRIPES, we are healed. (Jesus bore our sorrow and took it upon Himself and was crucified that we might live)! All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep is silent before it’s shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. (Jesus before Pontious Pilate was silent as the charges were brought against Him). He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who will declare His generation? (Who among you will take up His Name, even at the risk of death?) For He was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And they made His grave with the wicked, but with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. (He was crucified like a criminal and yet, never commited one crime, either against God or community.) Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. (For the remission of our sins, God has given His only begotten Son, in our stead.) When you make His soul as an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. (The Lord will compel Him to rise from the dead for His obedience, even unto to death.) By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore, I shall divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His soul unto death, and He was numbered with the transgressors, and HE BORE THE SIN OF MANY, and made intercession for the transgressors.” –Isaiah 52:12 and 53:13

What mere man can do only what God can do, which is take away sin? No one can do this but God.

“When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish His kingdom forever. I will be His FATHER and He will be My SON. When He does wrong, I will punish Him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. But My love will never be taken away from Him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before Me; your throne will be established forever.”

–2nd Samuel 7:12-13



Here we see that the Messiah has a father/son bond that cannot be broken. You may have noticed that it says, ‘when He does wrong, I will punish Him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men.’ Jesus was completely sinless. He never did wrong, but for our sake, He became sin. Sin must be attoned for by blood. Halacha (Jewish Law) makes this very clear. God cannot overlook sin for the sake of justice. However, because of His mercy, God Himself became the propitiation of sin as the only acceptable sacrifice. Because Jesus did this, its as if Father momentarily looked away from the Son. And so, we know from the gospels that Jesus was inflicted with some of the most horrific beatings ever endured by anyone. Romans were champions at torture. They employed some of the most painful tactics ever devised by man’s reprehensible mind. The carnage against Him was so awful that Isiaiah prophesied, that, “His body would be marred more than any other man.” His beating was so profound that He literally was a lump of flesh and blood. On the cross He would prophetically cry out, “Eloi, eloi, lama sabachtani?” which in Aramaic, means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken Me?” When Abraham was asked to sacrifice his only son, God did not allow him to complete the task, because He had, no intention of having Abraham complete this. God stopped Abraham and told him that He would provide for Himself an acceptable sacrifice. This ancient story was a shadow of what God was going to do for mankind out of His abundant love in the distant future. Jesus was the acceptable sacrifice, provided by God, Himself. And all of it was done for you, and me.

Therefore, once again, the Messiah is God, and God the Messiah. This is the very gift of salvation spoken throughout the New Testament that God had in mind from the beginning. Depsite all of this amazing prophecy, most Rabbinical scholars seem confused about this prophecy. They know this is a messianic prophecy, but seem unable to understand the breadth of what God has had in mind for His chosen one’s since the beginning. Probably the main reason why most don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah is because He did not establish peace on earth. What they fail to realize is that His return is imminent, and though it tarries, God is not slack on His promises. Jesus is Mashiac ben Yosef, and so died on that account that it might be counted as righteousness on our behalf, if we accept this free gift. He poured out His life unto death to us all, and yet, not a single one of us is deserving of it. And when the last individual comes to Christ, He will return for His bride. And we will see the glory of His kingdom and the fulfilment of His promise when Jesus comes as Mashiac ben David. This belief that Jesus died, resurected, and will come again for His bride, is not merely a Christian extrapolation.

“And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious. It shall come to pass in that Day that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left.”

–Isaiah 11:10-11

Jesse, was David’s father. So when it speaks a Branch, it is reffering to Davidic lineage. The Gentiles, such as myself, will follow Him, to the Place He has prepared for us. And He will return to gather the ‘elect’, that is, those who have willfully chosen to follow Him, instead of the world. Those who died prior to second coming are already with Him, “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” Therefore, those who are still on the earth in those days shall be taken to Him. And let me tell you, I can hardly wait for this Day.

As we have read, there is no greater a candidate for Messiahship than that of Jesus. Here’s the fact: Jesus Christ of Nazareth, is truly, truly, truly, the Mashiac. Whether we believe or not, is inconsequential to it’s truthfulness. Furthermore, He is coming back, despite all of what some mockers will say otherwise. I have personally counted 317 messianic prophecies of the Old Testament that have been, or have nearly been fulfilled in the New Testament. I could have overlooked others, meaning that there are actually more. Because of the sheer volume of text, I could not fit all of the prophecies. The ink cartredge on my printer would probably run out before it was accomplished. But, I would as though I would be neglecting you if I did not give you the Scriptures. Perhaps, you can blow the dust of off your Bible and check them out for yourself. I pray that it will be a blessing for you, that it might lead closer to the One you’ve always been looking for. (Yes, I believe that everyone seeks to know God, even though it cannot be fully comprehended. Everyone has a latent desire to know who God is). Even though God has made so unbelievably difficult for anyone to fulfil the messianic prophecies, so many either don’t know about, don’t care about them, or are just willfully blind to the fact that only Jesus could have performed all of this.

PROPHECY-----------------(the cross at Calvary)-------------------FULFILLED

1. Genesis 12:7 Promise made Abraham’s seed Acts 3:25-26

2. Genesis 14:18 The Last Supper Matthew 26:26-29

3. Genesis 22:8 The Lamb of God John 1:29

4. Exodus 3:13-14 The Great ‘I AM’ John 4:26

5. Exodus 12:5 A Lamb without blemish 1st Peter 1:19

6. Exodus 12:21-27 Christ is our Passover 1st Corinthians 5:7

7. Leviticus 17:11 Blood is atonement for flesh Mark 10:45

8. Leviticus 23:36-37 The Drink Offering John 19:31-36

9. Numbers 9:12 Not a bone of His broken John 19:31-36

10. Deut 18:18 Sent by God to speak the Word John 8:28-29

11. 2nd Samuel 7:14 Son of God Luke 1:32

12. 1st Chronicles 17:11 David’s Seed Matthew 1:1

13. Job 19:23-27 The Resurrection John 5:24-29

14. Psalm 2:6 To be the King Matthew 2:2

15. Psalm 8:5-6 Humiliation/Exaltation Luke 24:50-53

16. Psalm 16:9-11 Rise from dead w/o decay Acts 2:31/John 20:9

17. Psalm 22:9 Born the Savior Luke 2:7

18. Psalm 22:16 Pierced hands and feet John 19:31-37

19. Psalm 41:9 Betrayed by a friend John 13:18

20. Isaiah 11:2 Annointed One Matthew 3:16-17

21. Isaiah 42:7 Blind eyes opened John 9:25-38

22. Isaiah 50:6 Spat upon Matthew 27:30

23. Jeremiah 23:5-6 Messiah both man and God 1st Timothy 3:16

24. Daniel 9:24 Messiah to be an end to sin Galatians 1:3-5

25. Hosea 13:14 He would defeat death 1st Corinthians 15:55

26. Joel 2:32 Offer salavtion to all Romans 10:12-13

27. Haggai 2:23 Descendant of Zerubbabel Luke 3:23-27

28. Zecharia 6:12-13 Messiah is Preist and King Hebrews 8:1

29. Zecharia 11:8 Messiah would be despised Matthew 27:20

30. Zecharia 11:12-13 Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver Matthew 26:14-15

Perhaps, one of my favorite prophecies, is the spelling out of the gospel from day one, showing us God’s plan from the very beginning. In Genesis, chapter 5, we see here a list of names from Adam to Noah. This appears to be the geneology of the very first generations of men, and indeed it is. However, there is more than meets the eye. For the most part, and particulalry in ancient times, Hebrew names all meant something. That is to say, their names took on an attribute in the form of a verb, noun, or adjective. Similarly, we see the same type of names given in many Native American cultures. When we translate the names to their original denotation, we see an integrated message, spelled out.

1. Adam = Man

2. Seth = Appointed

3. Enosh = Mortal

4. Kenan = Sorrow

5. Mahalalel = The Blessed God

6. Yared = Shall Come Down

7. Enoch = Teaching

8. Methuselah = His Death Shall Bring

9. Lamech = The Despairing

10. Noah = Rest

“Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.”

Because this geneology comes directly from the Torah, it is undisputed that this could not be some insertion made by Christians. This demonstrates that from the beginning, the omniscient God of all that is, had this love story in mind before the creation of the universe. This is a love story, penned in blood on a wooden cross. Very clearly, we see a supernatural egineering, proving that the what is written in the Word is above all, trustworthy.

One of my favorite messianic prophecies comes from Luke’s gospel. It was only until recently that I stumbled across this passage. I probably overlooked numerous times, simply because I did not cross-reference the book of Isaiah. When I understood the true meaning of the passage that I had glanced over before, I was awestruck at it’s messianic significance.

“So Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted; to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind; to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.’

Then He closed the book and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyesof all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” –Luke 4:16-21

What in the world does that mean? Why did He pick that particular verse and not finish reading what was written? And what did it mean that ‘today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.’ How was it fulfilled? In order to answer that, we should find the place where He was reading in Isaiah.

“And the day of vengeance of our God… You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you will boast… And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion. Therefore, in their land they shall possess double; everlasting joy will be theirs. For I, the Lord, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them… So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before ALL the nations.” –Isaiah 61

What does that mean? What is the significance? God, speaking through Isaiah is telling His people, 760 years before Jesus would walk the earth, that the Gentiles would follow Him and that they would prosper, but His own people would be in derision. This is exactly what we have seen for the last 2,000 years. Isaiah is describing the church-age and how God would prosper in the hearts of true Christians who obeyed His voice. So, when Jesus stood up to read the first portion of Isaiah, it describes Mashiac ben Yosef, the suffering servant. Jesus, we know from the gospels, would fulfil this time in that generation. Jesus read this portion because His ministry had begun as the suffering servant. He sat down at the exact moment that Isaiah then describes Mashiac ben David, because His time as the Glorious Messiah would come later. So truly, there are not two separate messiah’s, but rather, two separate times that He would appear in history in order to fulfil what was written by the prophets.

Finally, one of the most remarkable prophecies recorded in the Bible comes to us from Daniel, written 600 years before Jesus’ time. God instructed Daniel when the approximate date that Mashaic ben Yosef would be cut off for our sins. The passage in Daniel, chapter 9, is somewhat cryptic and ambiguous. Nontheless, the message has not been dulled and only an omnipotent God could engineer such a masterpeice. This passage gives us a timeline for much of what God would be doing with the nation of Israel and the Messiah. In their apostate condition, Israel had been taken to Babylon. God told the nation Israel that they would be in captivity for seventy years. A remnant of people would come back at the appointed time under Ezra in order to rebuild Solomon’s Temple. However, permission to rebuild the Temple was given to King Artaxerxes, which secular history places it around 447 to 445 BC. Seventy weeks are described in Daniel’s prophetic book. The best translation of the word, though, is best described, simply as ‘seven.’ The timeframe described is ‘seventy sevens.’ When we think of the number seven, most of us probably correlate it to weeks. As it turns out, God has in mind, years, and not literal days. Thus, we are talking about a total period of approximately 490 years (490 = 70 x 7), hence, seventy sevens. According to the table, it would take 7 weeks, that is, 49 years, to complete the rebuilding of the 2nd Temple. After this time there would be another 62 weeks, or (434 years) until the Messiah would be killed. The death of the Messiah would accomplish all kinds of things and directly form the Scriptures to verifiable history, this is the closest approximation we could possibly get. Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem occurred 173,880 days (483 x’s the Hebrew 360 day, year). Jesus Christ fits so amazingly well into this timeline, that given this piece of Scripture alone, we should know beyond all reasonable doubt that Jesus truly is the Messiah. You see, anyone hoping that the Messiah was not, Jesus, must find another Jewish man who comes from the line of David, but that can supersede the curse of Jehoiachin, who was born of a virgin, out of the Tribe of Judah and that comes from Bethlehem in this exact period of time. All I have to say, is, good luck. But, the prophecy concerning Jesus, the Mashiac, doesn’t end here according to the Book of Daniel. There is, a final seven years that is unaccounted for, and this final lapse of time is extremely important to both you and I. In the next and final chapter of this book, we will see how everything we’ve been discussing ties in to one another. However, before I continue with this discourse, it is of great necessity that we clarify some issues concerning my Lord and King, Jesus Christ.

These are but a few of hundreds of messianic prophecy that were completely fulfilled by Jesus. As compelling as they are, there is no life in the prophecy, by itself. In fact, this tells us little about who Jesus was and how He would relate to us. Prophecy was given to us in order to corroborate who He was, and this is a very good thing. However, just as the Law is powerless in itself, so is prophecy. I provided evidence of Jesus’ existence, and moreover, His deity, in order that you might come to believe. Unfortunately, this will do nothing for you, other than make you a very learned unbeliever. I have not the power to bring you to Jesus. Nothing I can say or do will prove to you that Jesus is real and that His message of love is too. Every man, woman, and child must believe in Jesus in order to receive Jesus. We still must make the effort through belief and come to Him for salvation. We have not, because we ask not. So, talk to Him through prayer, and come to repentance. I promise that it is the most clean you will ever feel by coming to terms with yourself in honesty before Him. I can only lead to water, but I can’t force you to drink. And God can lead you to His living water, but He won’t force you to drink. I am absolutely powerless, without Him. It’s not the one who plants the seed that shoulf receive credit for the blooming flowers of the field. It’s not the one who waters the plants that makes it grow. It is the One who actually compels the flower to grow, through limitless power, who deserves credit. As amazing the Biblical narrative is, and all of the prophecies and the miracles associated with it, none of these can offer salvation. The gospel is the written expression of God in attestation to His greatest love, you and I. The gospel is only understood by that under-estimated and much overlooked part of all of us, the human heart. Your mind is a wonderful gift, but it will not bring understanding. It is the human heart, which cannot be measured by device, or understood through intellect. Understand, then, what it means to walk by faith. Come to the place of repentance, where what is broken is mended, and what is filthy becomes clean. You have been cordially invited by the Creator of the universe to partake of His love. All you have to do, is accept the invitation. The Creator of the universe came to us lowly, born in a manger, and lived the same life we did and was afflicted with the same temptations we face. May Jesus bestow all His richness and mercy upon you, forever, and ever, and ever, from everlasting to everlasting. Amen.

“I marvel that whereas the ambitious dreams of myself, Ceasar, and Alexander should have vanished into thin air, a Judean peasant, Jesus, should be able to stretch his hands across the centuries and control the destinies of men and nations.” –Napoleon Bonaparte

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

Insert article I decided to copy/paste without citing

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Please only post one prophecy at a time

I'm trying to bring about the destruction of Earth, but that prophecy hasn't been fulfilled. Yet...

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Please only post one prophecy at a time

Why? Because you want someone to do all the hard work, only to have you ultimately complain about any given prophecy and invalidate it.

Jesus was not the Messiah.

And the Talmud does not specify two messiahs, I know, I studied it. And asside from that, the Talmud is not a perfect document, it is written by Rabbi's, and most of it is interpretation and opinions(asside from the Migrash).

If you want me to post why Jesus could not have been the messiah, I would gladly, but I feel that this topic has been side-tracked enough already.

Why didn't you just copy and paste the whole bible in here? Even I understood what he was asking for... copy paste the "prophecy" without any explanation. If you are asked to provide somehting else then do it.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

Why? Because you want someone to do all the hard work, only to have you ultimately complain about any given prophecy and invalidate it.





No, Its because nobody like reading through one posters long ass post. If we wanted that we would read the text files. It's a "MESSAGE" board. "Not a fill up your bullshit on one page" board

Prophecy for Dummies (http://winace.andkon.com/proph4dums/)

quote:Originally posted by Sharule:

Jesus was not the Messiah.

And the Talmud does not specify two messiahs, I know, I studied it. And asside from that, the Talmud is not a perfect document, it is written by Rabbi's, and most of it is interpretation and opinions(asside from the Migrash).

If you want me to post why Jesus could not have been the messiah, I would gladly, but I feel that this topic has been side-tracked enough already.



I would be interested in hearing your opinon.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

Why? Because you want someone to do all the hard work, only to have you ultimately complain about any given prophecy and invalidate it.



As I mentioned in the OP, I am incredibly busy right now. I don't have the time to properly evaluate dozens of prophecies.

I'm an atheist. I'm giving you a chance to give me your side of the story. Let's not let this degrade into a flame war.

Qualifications for the Jewish Messiah:

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)

(To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.)

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

(The genealogy of the Christian Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!)

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

)Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews ever lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?)

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

(At last check, there is no Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was destroyed. Just the opposite of this prophecy!)

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

(Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?)

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

(The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.)

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

(there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.)

I could go on, but those are some basic reasons Jesus could not have been the messiah.

So no, the "Messiah prophecy" has not been fufilled.

Very interesting... Where do you stand then?

quote:Originally posted by Sharule:

Qualifications for the Jewish Messiah:

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)

(To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.)

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

(The genealogy of the Christian Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!)

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

)Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews ever lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?)

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

(At last check, there is no Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was destroyed. Just the opposite of this prophecy!)

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

(Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?)

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

(The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.)

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

(there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.)

I could go on, but those are some basic reasons Jesus could not have been the messiah.

So no, the "Messiah prophecy" has not been fufilled.

Pretty much all of those are to be fulfilled during the Millennial reign, jackass.

Yes, Christians often try to say that Jesus will fufill the prphecies in his 'second coming'. However, there are some that he cannot, such as being in the tribe of Judah. If You really want me to cover more deep into it I will. Oh what the heck, heres a good one.

Christians often say that Jesus's death atones for all sin, however, that cannot be possible by Jewish standards.

According to the Hebrew Scriptures, the only animals permitted for sacrificial purposes are those that have split hooves and chew their cud. The carcass of an unclean animal defiles (Leviticus 11:26). On these grounds alone, human beings are disqualified for sacrificial purposes. Jesus, as a human being, was unfit for sacrificial purposes.

An animal blood atonement offering must be physically unblemished (Leviticus 22:18- 25). According to the evangelists, Jesus was physically abused prior to his execution (Matthew 27:26, Mark 15:15, John 19:1; John 20:25; Matthew 27:29, Mark 15:17, John 19:2). According to Paul, Jesus' circumcision constituted "mutilation" (Philippians 3:2) and is likened to "castration" (Galatians 5:12). As a result, Jesus would again be disqualified as a valid sacrifice.

The New Testament's claim that Jesus' death was "one sacrifice for sin for all time" (Hebrews 10:12) is not supported by the Hebrew Scriptures. Mere death, no matter what was the extent of the preceding violence or pain, does not satisfy the biblical requirements for those times when a blood atonement sacrifice is offered. In a blood atonement offering the animal (clean species and unblemished) must actually die as a result of blood loss. That is why it is called "a blood atonement sacrifice."

Jesus (unclean human species and blemished) did not die within the Temple precinct, at the hands of an Aaronic priest, or through the shedding of blood. Jesus' blood was not sprinkled on the altar by the Aaronic high priest (Leviticus 16:18-19). Animal sacrifice, offered as a blood atonement, must conform to the biblical guidelines set down in Leviticus 17:11: (a) Bloodshed (by means of shechitah--Deuteronomy 12:21), (b) Given solely to the Jewish people, (c) Blood sprinkled upon the Temple altar.

Jesus' humanity, the physical state of his body, and the manner of his death (crucifixion) do not satisfy any blood atonement provisions found in the Hebrew Scriptures.

It doesnt matter. You are too brainwashed by your scrools to see the obvious truth.

Tell me, what good is your religion if you cant even atone for your sins with the Temple? You are going straight to hell.

See, youve been biased by your own religion. The temple rituals are suspended Mitzvots, but it doesnt matter. You have to develop your own relation to the G-d. The Tanakh never says the Goyim are going to hell, even though they dont follow the mitzvot, and no Jew can be perfect. In contrast, most Jews dont even believe in Hell, because the G-d is love, he would not send people to hell, just because they are Goyim or "sinning" Jews(all Jews). The temple was destroyed, and we cannot use those mitzvot to atone for our sins, however there is still over 600 mitzvot that we can use to atone for our sins.

So in essence, Judaism isnt about "Believe this way or youre going to hell" rather its focus is that if you are a good person, you will not be punished.

If I am going to hell because I didnt believe in Jesus, then Id rather be there. What kind of god would send good people to enternal damnation? Not a Just god, not a Loving god. And if the Christian god is like that, I want to be as far from him as possible, in the 'lakes of fire'.

Maybe the God that says "I will freely give you eternal life"?

You sound more like the average American than a Jew with the "God is love" crap.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Maybe the God that says "I will freely give you eternal life"?

You sound more like the average American than a Jew with the "God is love" crap.

Why does everyone who is religious (mostly christian etc) ALWAYS reffer to that? I don't understand what is so special about God basically killing a man? Do you know how many Good people who can be compared to your Jesus die for good cause? Fuck off with this shit!

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:



MESSIAH:

The Anointed One

The single greatest hope for the devout Jew is the coming of their awaited Messiah. The “Moshiac” (Messiah), is a Jewish man who will bring peace on earth and establish Israel at the head of all nations. Since the time of Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to David, to the Prophets, even until now, they have eagerly been awaiting their beloved Messiah. In this timeframe, there have been many false-messiah’s. Despite all of these counterfeits and imposters, the Jewish nation stand resolute, that their Messiah, will indeed, come for them and establish true peace on earth. In order to be Moshiac, one must fulfill the requirements of the Scriptures.

• Moshiac must be Jewish: “… you may appoint a king over you, who your God shall choose: one among your brethren shall you set as king before you.” –Deuteronomy 17:15

• Moshiac must come from the tribe of Judah: “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes.”

-Genesis 49:10

• Moshiac must be a male descendant from the line of David: “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish His kingdom.

-2nd Samuel 7:12

• Moshiac must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem: “… I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.” –Ezekiel 37: 26-27

• Moshiac will establish peace on earth: “They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn of war anymore. –Micah 4:3

• Moshiac will rule at a time when Jews will obey God’s commandments: “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall have one Shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.” –Ezekiel 37:24

If any of the prophetical criteria is missing, then claimant simply cannot be the Messiah. The interpretation of the passages, concerning Moshaic, is what separates many from the truth. Nonetheless, we see that Messiah come’s from the blessing bestowed upon Abraham, a righteous man from ancient times.

“In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” –Genesis 22:18

Abraham had a son, Ishmael, in which he assumed the blessing would come. However, God told Abraham: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name, Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.” –Genesis 17:19

And so, Isaac begat Jacob, who begat 12 sons of his own. These sons would establish the 12 tribes of Israel, from which they are so named even to this day. God reveals that of the twelve sons, the fourth, ‘Judah,’ would be the one through whom the Messiah would come out, of. After a stretch of time, David was hailed as the greatest Jewish king to sit on the throne of Israel. David ruled for approximately 1,000 years prior, to Yeshua (Jesus). God informed David that his descendant would rule forever. We see that God has decreed that there would be a king who will rule forever and that he would come from the nation of Israel. This narrows messianic eligibilty down for any prospects. As well, Messiah will specifically come from the tribe of Judah. These two restrictions significantly narrow down the eligible list of candidates for the Messiah. In lieu of their awaited Messiah, the Jews have been marvelous traditionalists, moreso than any other peoples on earth. They have managed to keep, not only their heritage, culture, language, and religion throughout three dispersions, but have also managed to salvage genealogical records, as well. Statistically speaking, this cultural survival of theirs is unheard of. No other culture that has, ever been supplanted, has been able to maintain its culture and beliefs past 500 years, at the most. The Jews have managed to do this for literally thousands, and thousands of years. It is not surprising to know that this survival is directly associated to the supernatural. However, it is equally important to know that the cause of their dispersions, are also, attributed to the supernatural. For years, the prophets of old preached for Israels return from their apostacy. Very few listened, despite revelations coming to fruition with remarkable accuracy. Indeed, it has proved that when God speaks we should listen. Very few people would heed the call. Generation after generation would turn to their own ways and of the ways of gentiles, and thus, Israel has been in perpetual chaos, ever since. This truth is more than evident, even today. How is it, that a nation the size of Rhode Island can continually be the focus of the world’s hatred?

The year was 30 AD. The Roman Empire at this time was well situated all throughout the old world. A vast expanse, stretching from Europe, the Middle East, and Asia Minor is completely under the control of Ceasar. Palestine was no exception. The independence of the Jews was taken in 68 BC, when Pompey of Rome took Syria and entered into Israel. By the time 33 AD, the people were sick and tired of being under Roman rule. To add insult to injury, the puppet king in Israel, ‘Herod the Great,’ was a cruel man who followed everything Julius Ceasar would command. What was probably worse, Herod was not even a Hebrew, but rather, an Idumean. In 30 AD, this was a time, like no other, when Israel was looking for their messiah king. It is important to understand the tone of these times, both religious and political. In these days, it was the religious leaders, of the day, that held power in Jewish society. In them, we have opposite ends of the spectrum, in personality and influence.

Pharisees: The name, literally means, ‘Separatists.’ They depended heavily on the Scribes and were loyal to the religion of Yahweh. Their emphasis was strict observance to the Law and strong attachment to the ‘Mishna’ (oral law). And so, these religious men were very pious, very rigid in their interpretation and very legalistic. They focused on the letter of the Law, rather than the Spirit of what the Law was trying to bring out.

Sadducees: The name, though not literally, meant, ‘Righteous.’ Whereas the Pharisees were strongly, connected with the scribes, the Sadducees were connected to the High Priest. These positions were more, earthly in nature, because they were formed more out of political and social reasons, rather than an obedient one. They viewed no relationship between the need for holiness and the destiny of their nation. The Sadducees were very liberal in their interpretation of the scriptures and of God.

Hasmoneans: They were otherwise known as, ‘Herodians.’ They followed Herod and Rome, and felt that it was best that Israel conform to Roman rule and adopt their principles. This political caste was very interested in the politcal aspects of Judaism, but never seemed able to come to terms with an intimate connection. These were the traitors of the day and most Jews at that time had no respect for them.

Cananaens: Otherwise known as, ‘Canaanites.’ They were a zealous group who refused to concede allegiance to Rome. Their view was that God only helps those who help themselves. In this way, they had very little connection to God as far as any relationship is concerned. Instead, they projected a fiery nationlistic spirit against their occupiers and were well-known to the Romans as instigators.

Essenes: These were a group of psuedo-spiritualists, who fled to the land of Qumran. They felt that must live a monastic life away from anything worldly in order to be good and loyal to Jews to Yahweh. Though they had a deep resect for God and His Word, they lived mostly an upright life. Despite this, they lost all consciousness of evangelical ministry, very similar to the modern-day, Amish. They were content to allow Israel to burn in her apostacy and forget all about it, by sealing themselves up in their own affairs.

As we’ve read, there was a tone of dissension althroughout the land of Palestine at this time. None of these five groups seemed to be in agreement over anything. With the exception of, perhaps the Hasmoneans, every Jew was ready for the Messiah to bring them out of Roman rule. The Jews of this day were looking for an obvious figure, a king who led them to victory once, and for all. They were looking for a soldier, a warrior, a leader, a king, who would war with the Romans and bring them out of captivity. Who did they get instead? They got a gentle carpenter, from a largely gentile land, known as, Galilee. But they received him, not.

Allow me to digress for a moment, as we take a look into Scripture that we might be able to ascertain the identity of the Messiah. In the Talmud, a collection of traditions and commentaries from post-Biblical periods, it makes mention of two messiah’s. There is one, who suffers, and is, rejected. The other, who preceeds him, will reign gloriously. The one who suffers, is known as, ‘Mashiac ben Yosef,’ because like Joseph of Genesis 37, he is rejected by his own brethren, but only to be ultimately glorified by God. Thus, this messiah will be rejected by the majority of Israel. The second, ‘Mashiac ben David,’ is named as such for two reasons. Like David, of the Tenach (Old Testament), he will reign gloriously as a king and subjugate the gentile nations under Israel. As well, as we shared earlier, this messiah must come from the geneaological line of David. Invariably, its been assumed that these are two separate individuals. Humanly speaking, this is completely understandable. However, is this really the case? What would happen if Rabbinical scholars have been looking for two messiah’s, instead of one Messiah, at two different times? What does the Word have to say about it?

There is an unquestioned amount of doubt concerning Jesus from all sides of the spectrum. If we were to ask different cultures and people with various beliefs, we would receive conflicting answers. Some people believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not a Son of God. Others believe that He was a righteous man, but that He was not a Son of God. Others believe that He was a trouble-maker who stirred the people to dissent. Others believe that there was a man, named Jesus, but that His personage, moreover, His diety, has been highly exaggerated. And still others believe that Jesus did not even exist, but that He is a complete fabrication. In my exegesis, we will go through and dispell all the notions against Jesus. We will see that no other Name has been more villafied, more admired, more hated, and more loved, than that of Jesus of Nazareth. We will clearly see that irrespective of our personal beliefs, one man can change the course of history forever, and by doing so, see how He split time in half, from the ancient world to the new. Even supposing that Jesus was just a man, the mere fact that people are so captivated by His personality speaks volumes. Nonetheless, the debate rages on, even after 2,000 years. So let us begin by debunking any notion that the man, named Jesus, did not exist. Many in opposition of Christendom have maligned His nature by claiming that Christ is just another god-man. Many god-men, such as, ‘Mithra’ (Persian), ‘Dionysus (Greek), Krshna (Indian), have existed, even prior to Christ’s birth. Interestingly enough, I don’t see anyone radically pursuing these god-men with the same fanatical and irrational hatred that we see for Jesus. This, in and of, itself should tell us that these others have no power. But, I believe that when people hear about Jesus, there is this innate sense of something real; something that transcends the others out of a dynamic personality that is unrivaled. To be fair, one could question His deity with a reasonable amount of suspicion, but to say that He never existed at all is wishful thinking on the claimants part. For the sake of the argument, in this opening portion I will use nothing taken from the Scriptures, but will initially present my argument based solely on extra-biblical evidence of His existance.

1. Flavius Josephus: (37 AD – 101 AD) Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born four years after Jesus’ physical death. As evidenced by his writings, Josephus was quite familiar with the turmoil in Palestine during the Roman occupation. As well, Josephus wrote about central figures of the New Testamental period.

a. Josephus makes mention of John the Baptist: “Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, called the Baptists: For Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God. And so to come to Baptism; for the washing would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away of some sins, but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thouroughly cleansed beforehand by righteousness.”

b. Josephus makes mention of Jesus: “Now, there was about that time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as to receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men among us, had him condemned to the cross. Those that loved him did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again on the third day; as the divine prophets had fortold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct to this day.”

c. Josephus makes mention of James, the brother of Jesus: “Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called the Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned; but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done.”

d. Josephus makes mention of Ananias, the High Preist: “Now as soon as Albinus was come to the city of Jerusalem, he used all his endeavors and care that the country might be kept in peace, and this by destroying many of the Sicarii. But as for the high priest, Ananias, he increased in glory every day, and this to a degree, and had obtained the favor and esteem of the citizens in a signal manner; for he was a great hoarder of money.”

2. Tacitus: (55 AD – 117 AD) Tacitus was a Roman historian who makes mention of the early Christians.

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians, by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had it’s origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontious Pilate. A most mischevious superstition, thus checked for a moment, broke out again not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular… And perishing they were additionally made into sports: they were killed by dogs by having the hides of beasts attached to them, or they were nailed to crosses or set aflame, and, when the daylight passed away, they were used as nighttime lamps… people began to pity these sufferers, because, they were consumed not for the public good but on account of the fierceness of one man.”

3. Thallus: (52 AD) Thallus was a historian who wrote about the the Eastern Mediteranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. Here, Thallus records an eclipse of the sun, contemporaneous with the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. “On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down.” And this was also recorded in Luke’s gospel. What is most interesting is that Jesus was crucified on the Passover, which is on a full moon. It is not phyiscally possible for an eclipse to occur on a full moon. “And it was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until about the ninth hour, the sun being obscured; and a veil of the Temple was torn in two.” –Luke 23:44-45

4. Pliny the Younger: (112 AD) Pliny was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. He here, in his tenth book, makes mention of Jesus. “They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, never to falsfiy their word, nor dent a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food, but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”

5. The Babylonian Talmud: (33 AD) This is the actual recording by the very men that ordered the execution of Jesus. *Take note of His charge* “On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ‘He is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything on his behalf, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.” So, we see that Jesus was crucified for supposedly leading others away from the Law and for sorcery. This corroborates the gospels magnificiently, as we see extra-biblical evidence of His miracles and of His teachings, even though He did NOT teach against the Law. “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, ‘Cursed is every one who hangs from a tree.” –Galatians 3:13

6. Lucian: (120 AD – 180 AD) Lucian, a Greek writer and rhetorician, speaks of the early Christians. “The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day- the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account… You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them. And then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and to deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they quite take on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.”

Though most of these accounts are resoundingly negative, we must remember that this aversion is common reaction towards Jesus and His followers, even today. It seems, then, that Christians have been persecuted from the very beginning as opposed to some sort of complex that we suffer from, which many have claimed. What is important to remember is that these historians mention Jesus Christ as an actual and factual person in human history. To put it bluntly, there is far more evidence to support the fact that Jesus existed, moreso than any other historical figure. Afterall, we don’t see the existance of Plato being questioned with the same tenacity, now do we? I wonder why that is. Now that we’ve sufficiently proven that Jesus did in fact exist, let’s move on to His deity.

We know that mankind was in need of a future Redeemer because of the original Fall of man, spoken of in Genesis. All men have been building up Adam, as ‘ben,’ in Hebrew, means, ‘builder.’ In Biblical times, it was the father’s seed that counted towards lineage, not the mother. Even today, tradition maintains that a son or daughter from a marriage typically takes the surname of the father. This is precisely why intermarriage was forbidden in Biblical times. Hypothetically, an invading foreign army with aspirations of establishing a new regime could impregnate Israelite women, and so, lose their heritage by way of attrition. This was not done out of issues of race, as so many have presupposed. Even today, a Jewish person is considered either a ‘Cohen’ (Priest), or a ‘Levy,’ (Levite), according to who is father is. Many Davidic kings on the throne of Israel had Gentile mothers. Did this make them Gentiles from the Tribe of Judah and the family line of David?



“But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from old, from everlasting.” –Micah 5:2

“For unto us, a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the governement will be upon His shoulder. And His Name will be called, ‘Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.’ Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His Kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgement and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”

–Isaiah 9:6-7

The prophet, Micah and Isaiah, wrote these prophecies some 700 years prior, to Jesus’ birth. In these messianic prophecies, they describe the Messiah as being eternal. We know that only God is eternal, and so, Messiah cannot be merely a mortal man, but rather, something greater than that. Aside from this glaring point, since when is a man, any man, referred to as ‘Mighty God’ and ‘Everlasting Father?’ So what else are we to deduce, other than, that the Messiah is God incarnate? Its evidence is all over the Old Testament prophecies and clearly fulfilled in the New Testament. The Old Testament is said to be the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. Truly, we see this duality and harmonization althroughout the Scriptures, given us, by God. There is no duplicity between the texts, but rather, they are homogenous. Aside from this, any man who might claim to be the Messiah has heavy burden to overcome. In all actuality, it is physically impossible to overcome. We know that Mashiac will come from the line of David. But as we will see, the line was essentially cursed from the time of the prophet Jeremiah. Just as Israel was going into exile, God made two declarations that first appeared contradictory about the last Davidic king over Judah, Jehoiachin (or other translations, ‘Coniah’). The first declaration was that of his physical descendants, no one would ever sit upon the throne of David, in spite of the fact that they would continue to inherit the rights to the throne. How can this be?

“Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know? O’ land, land, land, hear the Word of the Lord! This is what the Lord says: ‘Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah.” -Jeremiah 22:28-30

Well, this really presents a problem for everyone in Davidic lineage to inherit the throne, isn’t it? How can the Messiah overcome this? The second declaration makes it clear, if we have ears to hear and eyes to see. There was also a promised ‘Branch’ who would raise up the throne and sit upon it.

“In those days and at that time I will make a righteous Branch sprout from the line of David; He will do what is just and right in the land. In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the Name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord Our Righteousness.’ For this is what the lord says, ‘David will never fail to have a man sit on the throne of the house of Israel.”

–Jeremiah 33:14-17

Thus, we see that the Messiah is not a son of Adam, but rather, a Son of God. Because Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, rather than, by the will of a husband through natural procreation, He did not inherit the curse of Jehoiachin. However, because Joseph was His legal gaurdian, and Joseph and Mary were both from the line of David means that ONLY Jesus could still sit on the throne and avoid the curse. Jesus elucidates this point to the Pharisees by showing that David himself has considered the Mashaic to be God in the flesh.

“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, ‘What do you think about the Christ (Messiah)? Who’s Son is He?’ They said to Him, ‘The son of David.’ He said to them, ‘How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies a footstool?’ If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?’ And no on one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to question Him anymore.” –Matthew 22:41-46

Jesus is exactly right…. (not that this should come as a surprise). How can David say, “Then the LORD said my Lord,” if he was not talking about God? Who is the Lord? The Lord is God, right? David himself is pointing out the deification of the Christ, and very plainly, that the Lord, the Messiah, is God the Son and that the LORD God, is God the Father. These are very clear teachings, and yet, the vast preponderance simply does not want to believe this truth because of its implications. But, Jesus was very clear. He essentially stated to the religious elite, if you know God, as you claim to do, then you would know who I AM; as it is very evident by your lack of fruitfulness, that you do not know who I AM.

In the four gospels of the New Testament, each writer has unwitting part in the deification of Christ. Matthew presents Jesus as the Messiah, the King of the Jews. Mark depicts Him as the Servant of God. Luke portrays Him as the perfect Son of Man, focusing on His humanity. Johns presents Jesus as the very Son of God. Make no mistake, when Jesus came before them with His teachings that surpass any human wisdom, and with His miracles, there was no doubt in their minds as to who He was.

“Who is the Christ (Messiah)? So they said to Him, ‘Some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.’ He said to them, ‘But what about you? Who do you say, I AM?’ Simon Peter answered and said, ‘You’re the Christ, the Son of the Living God.’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by My Father in heaven.” –Matthew 16:14-17

There is little else for us to surmise, when we read the clear prophecy given to us by Isaiah.

Behold, My Servant shall deal prudently; He shall be exalted and extolled and be very high (by God)… Who has believed our report? (Who believes Christians?) And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? (Who amongst us has humbled himself, in order to understand who God is?) For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. (Jesus grew up like a regular little boy). He has no form or comliness; and when we see Him, there is no bueaty that we should desire Him. (there was nothing in Jesus, that by sight, we might understand who He is). He is despised and rejected by men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. (Jesus was rejected, smitten, scorned, beaten, and battered, because we did not care to listen to Him). Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His STRIPES, we are healed. (Jesus bore our sorrow and took it upon Himself and was crucified that we might live)! All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep is silent before it’s shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. (Jesus before Pontious Pilate was silent as the charges were brought against Him). He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who will declare His generation? (Who among you will take up His Name, even at the risk of death?) For He was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And they made His grave with the wicked, but with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. (He was crucified like a criminal and yet, never commited one crime, either against God or community.) Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. (For the remission of our sins, God has given His only begotten Son, in our stead.) When you make His soul as an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. (The Lord will compel Him to rise from the dead for His obedience, even unto to death.) By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore, I shall divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His soul unto death, and He was numbered with the transgressors, and HE BORE THE SIN OF MANY, and made intercession for the transgressors.” –Isaiah 52:12 and 53:13

What mere man can do only what God can do, which is take away sin? No one can do this but God.

“When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish His kingdom forever. I will be His FATHER and He will be My SON. When He does wrong, I will punish Him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. But My love will never be taken away from Him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before Me; your throne will be established forever.”

–2nd Samuel 7:12-13



Here we see that the Messiah has a father/son bond that cannot be broken. You may have noticed that it says, ‘when He does wrong, I will punish Him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men.’ Jesus was completely sinless. He never did wrong, but for our sake, He became sin. Sin must be attoned for by blood. Halacha (Jewish Law) makes this very clear. God cannot overlook sin for the sake of justice. However, because of His mercy, God Himself became the propitiation of sin as the only acceptable sacrifice. Because Jesus did this, its as if Father momentarily looked away from the Son. And so, we know from the gospels that Jesus was inflicted with some of the most horrific beatings ever endured by anyone. Romans were champions at torture. They employed some of the most painful tactics ever devised by man’s reprehensible mind. The carnage against Him was so awful that Isiaiah prophesied, that, “His body would be marred more than any other man.” His beating was so profound that He literally was a lump of flesh and blood. On the cross He would prophetically cry out, “Eloi, eloi, lama sabachtani?” which in Aramaic, means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken Me?” When Abraham was asked to sacrifice his only son, God did not allow him to complete the task, because He had, no intention of having Abraham complete this. God stopped Abraham and told him that He would provide for Himself an acceptable sacrifice. This ancient story was a shadow of what God was going to do for mankind out of His abundant love in the distant future. Jesus was the acceptable sacrifice, provided by God, Himself. And all of it was done for you, and me.

Therefore, once again, the Messiah is God, and God the Messiah. This is the very gift of salvation spoken throughout the New Testament that God had in mind from the beginning. Depsite all of this amazing prophecy, most Rabbinical scholars seem confused about this prophecy. They know this is a messianic prophecy, but seem unable to understand the breadth of what God has had in mind for His chosen one’s since the beginning. Probably the main reason why most don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah is because He did not establish peace on earth. What they fail to realize is that His return is imminent, and though it tarries, God is not slack on His promises. Jesus is Mashiac ben Yosef, and so died on that account that it might be counted as righteousness on our behalf, if we accept this free gift. He poured out His life unto death to us all, and yet, not a single one of us is deserving of it. And when the last individual comes to Christ, He will return for His bride. And we will see the glory of His kingdom and the fulfilment of His promise when Jesus comes as Mashiac ben David. This belief that Jesus died, resurected, and will come again for His bride, is not merely a Christian extrapolation.

“And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious. It shall come to pass in that Day that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people who are left.”

–Isaiah 11:10-11

Jesse, was David’s father. So when it speaks a Branch, it is reffering to Davidic lineage. The Gentiles, such as myself, will follow Him, to the Place He has prepared for us. And He will return to gather the ‘elect’, that is, those who have willfully chosen to follow Him, instead of the world. Those who died prior to second coming are already with Him, “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” Therefore, those who are still on the earth in those days shall be taken to Him. And let me tell you, I can hardly wait for this Day.

As we have read, there is no greater a candidate for Messiahship than that of Jesus. Here’s the fact: Jesus Christ of Nazareth, is truly, truly, truly, the Mashiac. Whether we believe or not, is inconsequential to it’s truthfulness. Furthermore, He is coming back, despite all of what some mockers will say otherwise. I have personally counted 317 messianic prophecies of the Old Testament that have been, or have nearly been fulfilled in the New Testament. I could have overlooked others, meaning that there are actually more. Because of the sheer volume of text, I could not fit all of the prophecies. The ink cartredge on my printer would probably run out before it was accomplished. But, I would as though I would be neglecting you if I did not give you the Scriptures. Perhaps, you can blow the dust of off your Bible and check them out for yourself. I pray that it will be a blessing for you, that it might lead closer to the One you’ve always been looking for. (Yes, I believe that everyone seeks to know God, even though it cannot be fully comprehended. Everyone has a latent desire to know who God is). Even though God has made so unbelievably difficult for anyone to fulfil the messianic prophecies, so many either don’t know about, don’t care about them, or are just willfully blind to the fact that only Jesus could have performed all of this.

PROPHECY-----------------(the cross at Calvary)



Too long, didn't read.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

Why does everyone who is religious (mostly christian etc) ALWAYS reffer to that? I don't understand what is so special about God basically killing a man? Do you know how many Good people who can be compared to your Jesus die for good cause? Fuck off with this shit!



Awesome response.

Christ is just a man -do you really believe his death and crufixion can justify all the heinous evil committed firsthand by the Church?



All the child abuses committed by your "celibate" priests, and the hypocrisy Christianity so happily wallows itself in.. can the death of Jesus justify all the anti-Semitism promoted by the Church?

A simple study of the past of Christianity will show you how great a legacy of blood it has left in its wake. We have the Holy Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, the Witch Hunt... etc but the greatest evil is relatively unknown, the monumental genocide carried out by the fanatical (Spanish and English) Christians against native Americans, simply because our fanatics identified the poor native Americans with the Devil. The 99.99% of the North American population has been destroyed. Can you believe that? The greatest crime humanity has ever witnessed was happily carried out by people who identified themselves as righteous Christians, much like you.

What is extremely dangerous in Christianity is the very obvious fact that it is obsessed with human sacrifice and blood... it can very easily lead to the violation of human rights, in its mildest form, Christians pester others with their beliefs because "Jesus told them to go forth and baptize all the nations."

I believe in a merciful and benevolent God but I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. The weak point of the Christian myth about Jesus is the Original Sin. If you reject that ridiculous doctrine of the Church, there's simply no need for a human sacrifice to repair the connection between God and Man. I think humanity has greatly progressed towards a worldly paradise and Christians are afraid of it. It's because humanity was not supposed to reach Heaven on Earth without the so-called Messiah, but alas, such is not the case. It's strange to see that Christians are actually fighting against optimism and humanism. Yes, Christianity is a terribly anti-humanist religion, it discards the entire human life for spiritual pipe-dreams.

I am not a Jew but I believe that Tanach is close to perfection: when a rabbi was asked to summarise the Old Testament, he replied: love your neighbour, the rest is optional. Jesus has brought forth a rather disturbing message: you should also love your enemies. It is a lofty-sounding ideal maybe, but rather hollow. If you consider yourself a good Christian you may stick to that particular advice but I find it extremely hard for a human being to follow this ideal. That's why OT is much more humane and sensible than the NT.

Anyways, returning back to the topic, no, Jesus is obviously not the Jewish Messiah. One thing to start with:

The Jewish Messiah was not supposed to be born of a VIRGIN! The Hebrew word used in Isaiah is "almah", which is used to denote any young woman who has come of age. There's a distinct word in Hebrew to denote female virginity, "betullah". The word is used elsewhere on Isaiah so it is clear that the mother of the Messiah is just a young woman --not a virgin. Ironically, again, elsewhere on Isaiah the word "almah" is used to allegorise an ingrate, or maybe an actual whore.

So where did this Immaculate Birth dogma come from? Simple. When the NT was translated from Hebrew to Greek, the translators picked up the word "parthenos", which is used to denote, albeit not exclusively, female virginity. Thence came all those crappy ideas about the everlasting virginity of Mary. Why the fuck should virginity be something of importance, anyway? Christianity is not just anti-feminist, it's also anti-sex.

Anyway, I had some free time and wrote this long post. I was just surfing and came across this site and felt the amazing urge to respond when I read your long and unfortunately pointless post.

I repeat that I believe in a universal, but not personal God who is in harmony with the universe and mankind. Not the blood-obsessed, blind and tyrannical God of Christianity. Original Sin is the most wicked lie humanity has ever brought forth, and the very concept of the Christian Messiah is built upon it. Actually if I had some more time I'd explain when and why exactly that silly doctrine was invented, but alas, time runs out. Have a good and anti-Christian day.

(PS: Actually Christianity serves a purpose I believe, despite all its crimes in the past. But it has always lacked respect for others. A friend of mine has in a most splendid way summarised Christianity. It is the religion of finite love and infinite hatred. Let me know if you agree.)

Edit: ArgonPlasma.. so you don't believe that God is Love? What kind of Christian you are? Should I really open up the New Testament to show you the contrary evidence?

[This message has been edited by Eosis (edited 03-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Maybe the God that says "I will freely give you eternal life"?

You sound more like the average American than a Jew with the "God is love" crap.

Obviously you dont know much about Judaism. Nor do you seem to know much about Christianity.

You sound like a 13 year old who is insecure with your own faith. Do you need counseling? I know some nice Jewish doctors that might be of some help.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

Why didn't you just copy and paste the whole bible in here? Even I understood what he was asking for... copy paste the "prophecy" without any explanation. If you are asked to provide somehting else then do it.

If you would have read what I wrote it, you would see the explanation. So I get to copy and paste from my book all I want, to show you direct you to the only book that truly matters... Le Bible.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

the only book that truly matters...

Pretty bold statement there buddy. It might be the only book that matters to you... and that is why you will never achieve anything productive for society. Because well, like you said yourself... it is the only book that matters, as in others don't matter.

Religion builds an army of mostly narrowminded/blind people such as yourself. And eventually world will start downgrading because of people like you.

We probably would be 1000 years ahead by now without religion.

[This message has been edited by ohhi (edited 03-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

Pretty bold statement there buddy. It might be the only book that matters to you... and that is why you will never achieve anything productive for society.

And what do you consider productive? How have you contributed to society?



Because well, like you said yourself... it is the only book that matters, as in others don't matter.

Okay, there are other books that matter here physically, and I shouldn't invalidate them. But ultimately, they only matter while here in the physical realm, which is here today, but gone tomorrow. In the end, when everything has been said and done, God's Word is the only thing that truly matters. Is that better?

Religion builds an army of mostly narrowminded/blind people such as yourself. And eventually world will start downgrading because of people like you.

Yes, I can see just how tolerant and open minded you are. If I'm narrow minded, its only because the path to life is narrow.

We probably would be 1000 years ahead by now without religion.

Ahead of what? What are you aspiring to?

[/B]

To answer everyone's question, here is the final chapter.... Literally. But I haven't finished this final chapter just yet. In any case, most of the questions can be answered here:

END OF DAYS:

The Revelation



“Behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne of the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!’ All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshipped God, saying, ‘Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen” –Revelation 7:9-12

The book of Revelation: For nearly two thousand years this final book of the Bible has been an inspiration and yet a mystery to the people’s of God. It is one of the most misunderstood and neglected books, but for those who hear and understand, it has given courage to endure hardship in the name of Christ to a great many more. In times of prosperity, the book of Revelation has been studied to endeavor a greater understanding of eschatology. End Time prophecy, however, does not begin with the book of Revelation. In fact, the End of Days has been discussed by most of the prophets, both major and minor, as well as Jesus, Himself. End Time prophecy is a difficult subject, because much of it is obscure. Nevertheless, this is such a critical area in the fulfilment of God’s plan that to dismiss it would prove to be a huge mistake – a mistake that could have real time consequences in a world not far from the season of harvest.

This final chapter of mine is one that I find the most difficult to write. In fact, its been about three weeks now that I’ve devoted to this chapter. I have to keep updating this sentence because the referencing and cross-referencing is a daunting and arduous undertaking. There is so much that I feel I’m overlooking, and its my concern that a thourough exegesis is given to let the reader understand what is currently happening in the world around us. There is so much information that it is easy to find the passages obscured and misinterpreted. Nonetheless, I have a great commission that has been given me and it is one that I must be faithful to. Above all, I am supposed to proclaim that glory of God and preach the gospel to the lost, just as it is continually being taught to me, not only when I was lost in the Wilderness. Secondly, there has been a widespread prejudice and suppression within the church as a whole concerning anything considered negative. The End Times is considered a negative aspect of Christianity. If you are a true follower of Christ, I hardly see how this would be considered negative. This is a time of rejoicing when we will finally go home to a place that has been prepared for us before the universe began. If I were to, however, only spoke of God’s mercy, I would only be giving you half of the story. I understand very well for those of us that have friends and family that are unsaved, this is very distressing. This is my greatest motivation for writing this book. My heart is, and always will be for the lost. And I ask the Lord, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” God has instructed us to, ‘not seal up the words of this book, for the time is at hand.’ To put it bluntly, this message must be given to you, because it is truth, ‘and the truth shall set you free.’ There is a time coming, and I tell you, it already is here, where all that is contrary to goodness will be reconciled. A Day of reckoning is coming and it would be well with us to gain as much understanding as we can on this matter. The truth is, this Day I speak about is one of great joy for those who have been comforted by the Lamb of God, but for the goats and wolves of this world, it will be a Day of terror. Throughout this book, I have refrained from speaking about this, but as I said earlier, this message has to come across because it is the truth. It’s coming, my dear friends. And what misery for me to know that you won’t be by our side.

TIMELINE:

• Jesus comes as God in the flesh.

• Jesus Christ is crucified for the remission of sin.

• On the third day, the Temple (His body) rose from the dead.

• Jesus Christ ascended to be with His Father and gave us the Spirit.

• The physical temple destroyed, per Jesus’ prophecy, in 70 AD.

• The time of Gentiles and the church-age, from 70 AD to May 14, 1948.

• Under the Balfour Declaration, Israel was restored in 1948.

• Approximately 365 prophecies have been, fulfilled, and are being fulfilled currently.

• >You are here<

• The time of the Gentiles comes to an end. So begins the Rapture of the Church.

• The Anti-christ comes forth to establish a psuedo-peace for 3 ½ years.

• A covenant is confirmed by the Anti-christ with many aggressive nations; the Tribulation begins, which is the 70th week, described by Daniel.

• Russia invades Israel; ¼ of the world’s population dies.

• The midst of the Tribulation and the abomination that causes desolation.

• The mark of the Beast required in order to buy or sell; those who do not accept the mark or worship the Anti-christ will be executed.

• The kings of the east, China, march to Israel. 1/3 of the remaining world population perishes.

• The Tribulation ends.

• The Battle of Armageddon explodes. Jesus returns for His remnant.

• The judgment of the nations begins.

• The Millennium: one thousand years of true peace.

• The King of kings, and Lord of lords, reigns on the earth.

• The Millennium ends, and a little season of evil passes.

• The final rebellion.

• The great white throne judgment.

• New heaven, new earth, New Jerusalem.

• Eternity with God for those saved / eternal separation for the unsaved.

-The seventy year Babylonian captivity of the Jews:

“And this whole land shall be a desolation and an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon for seventy years.” –Jeremiah 25:11

-The Grecian empire under Alexander the Great conquers the Medo-Persian empire:

“And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. Then he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing beside the river and ran at him with furious power… The ram which you saw, having two horns- they are the kings of Media and Persia. And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between it’s eyes is the first king.” –Daniel 8:5-6, 20-21

-The crucifixion of the Messiah for the remission of sin:

“For dogs have encircled Me; the congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; I can count all My bones. They look at Me and stare at Me. They divide My garments among them, and My clothing they cast lots.” –Psalm 22:16-18

-The destruction of the second Temple that proceded Messiah:

“And after sixty two weeks Messiah will be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.”

-Daniel 9:26

-The mass dispersion of the Jewish people:

“So I scattered them among the nations and they were dispersed throughout the countries; I judged them according to their ways and their deeds.”

-Ezekiel 36:19

The spread of the ‘Good News’ about Jesus to all of the world via missionaries:

“Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.” –Isaiah 49:6

-Jewish persecution, the Holocaust, and other related afflictions:

“And I will pursue them with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence, and I will deliver them to trouble among all the kingdoms of the earth to be a curse, an astonishment, a hissing, and a reproach among all the nations where I have driven them, because they have not heeded My words, says the Lord, which I sent to them My servants the prophets.” –Jeremiah 29:18-19

-The Diaspora ends and God gathers His chosen one’s to the land He gave them:

“In the latter years you will come into the land of those… gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations.” –Ezekiel 38:8

Picking up where we left off in the previous chapter, we see that we are living in the parenthesis between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy. This parenthesis of time is the entire age of the gentiles. God has been using the gentiles as His primary source of interacting with mankind. However, this is temporal, because God will once again resume His dealings with Israel. At the end of the 70th week, Mashiac ben David will come for His bride; the church that worships in truth. We will be taken to Him in the Rapture to spare us from the coming judgment that will descend upon the whole earth. There is an ongoing theological debate about when the Rapture will occur. Personally, I think all scriptural evidence states that the church that worships in truth will be taken in the pre-tribulation period. Mid-tribulation and post-tribulation speak disparagingly of our blessed hope that Christ will come for His bride before the Judgement. Of the pagan breed, its all non-sense to them. Mockers and scoffers of all walks of life ridicule Christians for this belief.

“scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, ‘Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.’ For this, they willfully forget: that by the Word of God, the heavens were of old… beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance.” –2nd Peter 3:3-9



“But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.” –2nd Timothy 3:1-4

Despite all of this mockery about Jesus and the Rapture, it will come to pass, whether it be in this generation or fifty from now, it will come. Though the Lord tarries in patience, that all may come to Him, His Word is not slack.

“Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we will be changed- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead (in Christ) will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. For this corruptible (body) has to put on incorruption (of the spirit), and this mortal must put on immortality… ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.” –1st Corinthians 15:51-55

“For this we say to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. –1st Thessalonians 4:15-18

For the Rapture to take place, the ‘time of the Gentiles’ must close through a ‘falling away.’ Essentially, this means that many people will, including those who call themselves, ‘Christian,’ their love will grow cold. They will begin to neglect the tenets that Jesus taught to us and turn to their version of morality. This is more than evident today with the moral degeneracy. Never has the world experienced such a massive display of spiritual bankruptcy as it has in the last decades. Moral relativism has replaced sound doctrine and people are turning to fables and lies, and compromising the integrity of their character. As an opening sequence in Revelation, John gives us a warning as he describes his vision. In chapter 2, he gives the names of seven churches that were located in Asia Minor during the early church period. These seven churches are a representation of the churches that will either stand or fall in the last days. Though you may call yourself a Christian, this is a sobering look at how God may see you.

The Church at Ephesus: (the loveless church)- This is a church that has left its first love; namely, Jesus. This church has abandoned the greatest commandment ever given by God, which is to ‘love the Lord your God, with all your mind, soul, and strength.’ As well, they have failed to love others as themselves, which is, the second greatest commandment given by God.

The Church in Smyrna: (the persecuted church)- This is a congregation that is relentlessly persecuted, even to the point of death. Jesus reminds them that though man may kill the body, they cannot kill their spirit, which belongs to God. He is offering comfort to them in their present affliction that will be their glory in heaven.

The Church in Pergamos: (the compromising church)- This is a church that teaches false doctrines that are contrary to what Jesus taught. They are rogue in their approach to the gospel and teach idolatry. They have willed away clear teachings by trying to excuse and exonerate themselves.

The Church in Thyatira: (the corrupt church)- This church teaches evil doctrines that are seductive to the greed of fleshly and earthly ways. A strong rebuke is given to this church, because they have strayed so far from what Jesus taught. It’s churches like this that often give the whole of Christendom a bad name.

The Church in Sardis: (the dead church)- A congregation such as this one has an outward appearance of righteousness, but inside, its full of hypocrisy. They are spiritually dead because their inward life does not reflect the love of God. Their works are few, if any, and they have forgotten what salvation means.

The Church in Philadelphia: (the Faithful church)- This church is the kind of church that every one should aspire to because it teaches in truth. They have followed the Word of God, an in it, they are joy-filled and bear much fruit in the name of the Lord. When that Day is upon them, He will say to them, ‘well done, good and faithful servant.’

The Church in Laodicea: (the lukewarm church)- This is a church who rides the fence, spiritually and in doctrine. Their rebuke is for their lack of zeal and fruitfulness. Their works are few, and of those, they are done for the wrong reasons. Jesus is telling them, “I wish that you were either hot or cold… I am about to vomit you out of my mouth.” Meaning, Jesus wishes that we were either on fire for Him or simply reject His salvation altogether. When a carnal Christian preaches God with His mouth, but lives in the flesh, he maligns God. And people tend to judge all of Christendom by those who routinely give the gospel a black eye by perverting it. In this way, Jesus is essentially telling them, ‘Turn back to Me and follow Me, otherwise, I have no choice but to cast you away in My indignation.’

In light of this warning, we should aspire to be like the churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia that did not receive a rebuke because they worshipped in truth. All across America, and by extension, the world, churches are teaching false doctrines and recruiting droves of converts. This does not impress Jesus. Jesus doesn’t want converts as if it were some sort of quota. He wants people to live as He intended, which is free from bondage and oppression. If they do not repent, they will be left behind to face the Tribulation.

There is, however, another prophecy yet to be fulfilled that most Bible scholars are not united on. Another prophecy has been given to us by the prophet Isaiah concerning Assyria (modern day Syria). I am unclear whether this happens before the rapture or after. I would like to think this happens just before as a final warning to prepare our hearts, but I can’t help to think of the explicit verses given to us by Jesus where He tells us to be ready. Jesus is going to come ‘like a thief in the night.’ He has asked that we be doing all that He commanded, which is to preach the gospel and be a light to a world so full of darkness. He has asked that we heal the sick and visit those in prison and to love even our enemies that they may come to repentance and come to His saving grace. Regardless, of whether Syria’s outcome will come before or after the Rapture is inconsequential. It is Biblical prophecy, and therefore, it will come to pass. Only ‘when’ and ‘how’ are relevant and applicable questions that only the future can tell.

“An oracle concerning Damascus: ‘See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a ruinous heap. The cities of Aroer will be deserted.” –Isaiah 17:1-2

Damascus is the capital of Syria and is said to be the oldest, continuously inhabited city in human history. ‘Aroer’ is a city in south central Jordan. Both countries are staunchly opposed to Israel. We are currently unsure where this prophecy fits, as far as chronology is concerned. Nonetheless, the events described will take place. I personally feel that this event will precipatate the beginning of WWIII. With the newly acquired nuclear technology, at least in relation to all of human history, the world is constantly in fear of nuclear proliferation. Is it so impossible for us to concieve the plausibility of this given the current, hostile disposition of the Middle East? Certainly not! Ask any heads of nations today how serious of a threat this truly is, irrespective of whether they believe in Bible prophecy or not. I believe that his is the event that will unleash destruction on a level never before seen by mankind. Nations will take sides and make war with one another. When this dramatic, sequence of events takes place, the whole world take notice.

“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him… Persia, Cush, and Phut are with them, all with shield and helmet; Gomer and all his troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all his troops-many people are with you… Sheba and Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder?’ Ezekiel 38

For those who haven’t the spiritual discernment or those that lack the knowledge of this intellectual discourse have a difficult time understanding this passage. The book of Ezekiel is a tough read, unquestionably, without the foreknowledge of some scriptual foundation. Allow me to unravel this mystery to greater serve the reader. To understand the significance of the names listed, we have to go back to the beginning. In Genesis 10, we have listed the Table of Nations. All the names listed are progenitors of nations and people groups.

Magog: (Russia) Ancient sources, both Biblical and secular are refering to the ‘Scythians,’ who are modern day Russians. Magog is Russia.

Persia: (Iran) The main ally of this unholy alliance is Persia, who is modern day Iran, which is a cognate of the name, ‘Aryan.’

Cush: (Ethiopia) This refers to the land, south of Egypt, typically denoting Sudanese and Ethiopian lineage.

Phut or (Put): (Libya) In a connotative sense, it is usually associated with the inhabitants populated by the ancient Berbers, which include Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco.

Gomer: (Germany) Typically rendered ‘Germania,’ it speaks of the Cimmerians, which are modern day Germans, located on the Rhine and Danube valleys.

Togarmah: (Armenia) These are Turkic tribes associated with Armenia. In fact, the Armenians to this day still refer to themselves as ‘the House of Togarmah.’

Meshech and Tubal: (Turkey) These are the ancient Phrygians or Hittites that comprised the now defunct Ottomon Empire. This speaks of modern day Turkey and the peoples along the Caspian and Black seas.

The nations listed have all at one time or another been hostile to the United States and/or Israel. Most of the nations listed to this day are very much opposed to US/UK and Israeli interests and have expressed plans to harm either of these nations. This brings us to the other names listed in this prophecy. The next set of nations will stand with Israel and apparently will come to her aid when the invasion begins.

Sheba and Dedan: (Saudi Arabia) These were the names of cities located in what is now Saudi Arabia. It is unclear why Saudia Arabia would show contempt towards the actions of these mostly Muslim nations. In all actuality, the Saudi’s routinely have some of the highest percentages of terrorist cells in the world. We do know, however, that Saudi Arabia is also the most Westernized of all the Muslim nations and has done it’s part in thwarting terrorism. It is unclear if they will fight against the invaders or sit quietly on the side-lines. In either case, they will question the actions of its neigbors in days to come.

Tarshish: (Brittain/Spain) The theory concerning Tarshish is one that has been debated for a long time. Without going into a huge discourse, most scholars are firm on the belief that it is speaking of either Spain or Brittain, or perhaps, both. Some scholars suggest that ‘Kittim’ is Spain’s Biblical reference and that Tarshish, then, must definitely be the UK. In Ezekiel’s prophecy, there is also mention that Tarshish, and her ‘young lions’ will engage the enemies of Israel, as well. We can only logically assume that this is speaking of the branches of either Spain (Mexico, Argentina, Columbia, etc) and/or Brittain (United States, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc). This battle, however, should not be confused with the battle of Armageddon, or ‘Har-ma-Geddon’ in Hebrew. This is only a taste of the Tribulation that will befall on all of those who remain on the earth. From this preemptive battle, ¼ of the world’s population will die, which makes us wonder if nuclear weaponry is employed for there to incur such a high number of casualties.

A question you might be asking yourselves is, “When will this happen and what will be the signs of the times?” This is an excellent question and one that was posed to Jesus by His disciples. Jesus elucidates for us in the gospel of Matthew.

“Now, as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things be and what is the sign of your coming, and the end of the age?’ And Jesus said to them,’Make sure that no one decieves you. For many will come in my Name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See to it that you are not alarmed; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet come. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My Name’s sake. And many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come. Therefore, when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the rooftop not go down to take anything from his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! Pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has never been seen since the beginning of the world until this time, nor that ever shall be again. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would survive; but for the sake of the ‘elect,’ those days will be shortened. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ! Or ‘There!’ Do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, even the ‘elect,’ if that were possible. See, I have told beforehand. Therefore, if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or, ‘Look, He is in the inner-rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightening comes from the east is visible in the west, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever a carcass is, there the vultures will be gathered. Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give off it’s light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken… But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the Flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore, you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” -Matthew 24

Jesus makes it quite clear that we do not the exact time of His coming, but that we can have an estimation based on the events that begin to unfold by watching the things that come to pass. It is with mixed feelings that I report to you that all of the things that were to pass, have passed, for the rapture of the church to happen. After the terrible persecution of the Jews under the Nazi regime, the Allied Forces defeated Germany and its axis of evil. The world did not know where to place the remnant of Jews. It was a joint effort between England and the United States who established the Balfour Declaration. Under this edict, the Jews would again become, Israeli’s, uniting them under one nation, just as their forefathers were. After many reports throughout the centuries, it was clear that the land of Palestine was little more than a Middle Eastern squat, owned by the Ottoman empire and inhabited by Bedouins and other sojourners who had no real intention of establishing or legitimizing the land. It was only until, Israel repatriated that the Arab world would oppose it so strongly, kindling the ancient sibling rivarly that dates back to Abraham, through Isaac and Ishmael.The only thing I can liken this rivlary to, are little children fighting over a toy. Suppose one of my two kids has a certain toy that he or she never plays with anymore. When their sibling goes to play with the toy, then, and only then, does this toy become so utterly important to them. All of a sudden, it becomes a travesty that their sibling is using the toy despite their lack of zeal for it prior, to that time. Catch my drift? This is what has happened in Palestine in the late 40’s and that is continuing with its venom to this day.

“For behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will bring you back from captivity My people Israel and Judah, says the Lord. And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

-Jeremiah 30:3-4

“For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all countries, and bring you to your own land.” –Ezekiel 36:24

After the Rapture, it is understood that with this many people gone, unexplainably through secular eyes, the world economy will take a nosedive. The nations greatest affected will be the nations that follow God en masse, because a high percentage of them will no longer exist in the earthly realm. Life will become difficult for a small season. In the middle of the 70th week, a European man will come to pick up the pieces. He will work to consolidate the nations and to unify countries into one conglomerate. We already see this kind of unification taking place in Europe with the European Union (EU) and the United Nation (UN). With the exception of England, all of Europe uses the ‘Euro’ as it’s main form of currency. This consolidation of countries will spread worldwide. The economy will bounce back and it will be life as usual, if not better than it is now. A sense of peace and prosperity will be enjoyed for approximately 3 ½ times. The word ‘times’ is difficult to translate in the Bible. It is estimated to be about a year, but the Bible is very careful not to use the word, year. Nevertheless, this just further confirms that Daniel’s prophecy was all the more accurate, because 3 ½ times 2, equals 7. Therefore, this man will be highly venerated and his approval rating will likely be higher than any other that preceded him will. He will essentially be worshipped, as if, to a god. He even establishes a synthetic peace with Israel and works to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. This man is none other than the antichrist. Many people have claimed evil dictators to be the anti-christ, such as Hitler or Stalin, however, the Scriptures make it clear that this man will be loved by many nations. He will be a bastian of hope for all of the world and will decieve many. After 3 ½ times, he will show his true nature and the Jews, in particular, as well as the rest of the ‘Tribulation saints’ (those that have turned to Jesus after the Rapture) will begin to understand his deception. He will trample the Holy city (Jerusalem) for forty-two months. During that length of time, God will provide for Himself, ‘two witnesses’ who will prophesy and preach the gospel for 1,260 days in sackcloth and ashes. They will no doubt speak against the antichrist and will serve as a warning to the people of the world. No one knows who the two witnesses will be. Some speculate that it will be Enoch and Elijah, because they never physically died, and it is appointed unto every man to die a physical death. Others say that it is John the Baptist and Moses. Regardless, these are mighty men of God who are to be revered and their instructions taken to heart. At this time, this psuedo-peace will soon end, and when it does, the earth will experience an extreme chaos never seen before, nor, will ever be seen again.

“Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared for God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.” –Revelation 12:6

This picture, no doubt, is referring to the nation Israel, who is coming to their senses. They know the man that the world is worshipping is an idol, and worship belongs to the Lord, alone. They will seek refuge in a sanctuary in which to honor, praise, and pray to God. Just prior, to this occurance, the third Temple will be erected in Jerusalem. But the ‘man of lawlessness’; the son of perdition; the anti-christ,’ will set up the ‘abomination that causes desolation.’ We are not completely certain what this abomination will be, but we can deduce from the passages that it is a ghastly offense to that which is Holy. He will cause the ceasing of worship to set up this abomination halfway through the Tribulation period. This is what was mentioned in the chapter before about the Messiah. When we left off from the book of Daniel, the days were calculated in the following manner: 445 BC to 32 AD, is 476 years. Multiply these years according to the Julian calendar of 365 days per year. This amounts to 173,740 days. Add 116 days for the corrected number of leap years and the difference of 24 days between March 14th and April 6th, reckoning inclusively to Jewsih practice. Thus, the total amounts to 173,880 days. From the time Daniel spoke this prophecy to the time of Jesus’ crucifixion, this formula is exacting.

It is believed that because of the high population that will be taken in the Rapture, the global economy will plummet into the deepest recession the world has ever known. I really don’t think that people understand the devestation this will cause. The Us population has by far, the largest number of professing born-again-Christians, with a total of approximately 65 million; that’s 23% of the population. I realize that an even greater number are professing Christians, but I know from the scriptures that ‘not everyone that says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter heaven… On that Day, I will plainly tell them, ‘I never knew you.” Look at the destruction that incurred due to 9/11. We lost about 3,000 people. The economy was in shambles. Now imagine for a moment what would happen if 65 million people vanished from the United States alone. Think of planes falling from the sky because the pilots loved the Lord. A third of the US police gone because they loved the Lord. One tenth of firefighters vanished because they loved the Lord. Members of Congress, judges, bankers, doctors, lawyers, military members, homemakers, children younger than the age of accountablity, all going home to be with the Lord. The banking system fails, grocery stores, buisness’ of all walks, the military, local, state, and government crippled. Lawlessness abounds and chaos runs rampant in a world that hasn’t a care for morality. The only thing holding this place together were those that loved the Lord. Without their light in this dark world it becomes more bleak. And then, he steps onto the scene.

The world would be bereft of answers or hope. They will then be awaiting their version of the messiah. Perhaps a few days, weeks, or months after the Rapture, the man of the hour comes forth to pick up the broken pieces. He will institute new policies, most noteably, the unification of the enire earth. Countries will join together under one banner in a new world order. Indeed, this man will bring a great unity to a world that desperatley needs it. Because the economy will be destroyed in a single day, food and water will be rationed by the state (one-world-government). In order to buy and sell, you will have to accept a ‘mark’ on either the right hand or in the forehead. This is the mark of the beast, otherwise known as 666. There has been so much debate concerning the mark. Exactly what it is and the symbolism of the number, six hundred and sixty six, is still not completely understood. Most scholars seem to think that it will be some sort of microchip or a derivative of it, possibly with technology that we have not yet been introduced to. This isn’t inconceivable being that microchips are currently being used in pets and Alzheimers patients in order to track them in case they become lost. As well, on my military id card, a small chip was implanted that contained my entire medical history. Instead of swiping an ATM card, you might have to swipe your hand over a sensor and it will debit your account. This is theoretical, but I believe it is entirely plausible. And because there is nothing inherently wrong with this technology and its use is going towards a common good, most people won’t consider there being anything wrong with it. Here’s the problem: God says that taking the mark will also be a deliberate act of denouncing Him and a symbol of allegiance towards the anti-christ. It’s expressed that those who accept the mark willfully and knowingly accept it under these circumstances. There is a catch 22. Anyone who does not take the mark will be executed by the state for failure to obey the leader. What in the world is a person to do? Its implied that most people will fall into line because the pangs of hunger and the threat of execution is more than most are willing to bear. These will be perilous times indeed.

“Do not fear those that can only kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, fear the Him who is able to destroy both the body and soul in hell.”

–Mattew 10:28

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: For your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” –Romans 8:35-36

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

And what do you consider productive? How have you contributed to society?

Well seeing how I'm only 21 I already operate my own multimedia company that is making quiet a bit of money. I help a lot of people in every way possible (financially etc). I donate as well.

Furthermore, are you answering question to question just because you don't have an answer?

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

Okay, there are other books that matter here physically, and I shouldn't invalidate them. But ultimately, they only matter while here in the physical realm, which is here today, but gone tomorrow. In the end, when everything has been said and done, God's Word is the only thing that truly matters. Is that better?

Better, but again those are your beliefs, not mine.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

Yes, I can see just how tolerant and open minded you are. If I'm narrow minded, its only because the path to life is narrow.

I am not narrowminded/selfish. Simply because I'm not Christian (or religious in general). Believe me, I have seen both sides.



quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

Ahead of what? What are you aspiring to?

Are you trying to be smart or something? Because it's not working out. Ahead of where we are right now.



[This message has been edited by ohhi (edited 03-07-2006).]