I thought that perhaps the title of this bulletin board was just a joke. I thought perhaps there would be some people here that are actually seeking for Truth. There are some, but sadly the majority of threads I read here are littered with vain arguments, slander, cursing, violence, strife, ignorance, selfishness, self-righteousness, hatred pride, condemnation, and all manner of ugly and vile conversation.

This message is a call to those out there who truly wish to find the Truth, and wish to help point each other there, building on one another's love, knowledge and experience to gain and give better understanding about the meaning of life and all of it's implications.

This message is also a call to all of those who argue spitefully, mocking one an other, belittling one an other and tearing eachother down. If you have or have ever had a true and good intention in these discussions, please turn away from your ugly words, your hatefull thoughts, your mocking and scorning and come back to the real reason why you are interested in these matters at all. Surely the reason isn't so that you can prove yourself right and put everyone else down, is it?

This message is for anyone who believes that if we don't have Love in our heart we have nothing. For anyone who really believes and lives by this principal I'd like to ask:

What is love? How can it be shown or proven? What are it's characteristics, and manifestations in physical reality?

I think this is a good question to ask first When seeking Truth or seeking God. If God is worth finding at all, He will be the source of all true Love, so if we start really thinking about what Love is and what Love isn't, maybe it will get us closer to knowing who or what is the True God.

I'd love to her your thoughts and ideas about Love, and your answers to the specific questions I asked.

Thanks for reading this I hope we Can have some blessed conversation.

Grace and Peace to you all,

Joshua

True love is loving my ex gf even after she picked god over me, told me that she needs a "man of god" and also told me that she doesn't love me the same as she used to, besically because i turned atheist. Religion creates awful things.

[This message has been edited by ohhi (edited 03-12-2006).]

We shouldn't start a bottom-up search for truth by establishing baseless axioms. IE: "If God is worth finding at all, He will be the source of all true Love." Other than that, I agree with the basic premise of this post.

I'd like to establish an axiom. Perhaps we can agree upon this one and base our search upon it.

1: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Thus, we should begin our search for truth by collecting and examining evidence to substantiate these extraordinary claims of a "god."

Is this reasonable?

Why search for truth in the first place? Why would you want to live your life based on someone else's perception of the "truth"? Sit down and write your own, rewrite it when you change your mind, it's alot more effective.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

Why search for truth in the first place? Why would you want to live your life based on someone else's perception of the "truth"? Sit down and write your own, rewrite it when you change your mind, it's alot more effective.

But is it true?

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

But is it true?

He should of put "truth" in quotes.

Axiom 2: There is some absolute truth in this universe.

Example: Gravity. Two objects will exert a gravitational force upon each other based on Newton's law of Gravitation.

Based on axiom 1 and axiom 2, it is at least worth looking for absolute truth pertaining to a "god."

Is this reasonable?

I agree with the two axioms you have put forward and think it is very reasonable to search for absolute truth pertaining to a "god" based on these axioms. How should we go about collecting evidence to substansiate all of the various claims of a god and of the nature of the god?

quote:Originally posted by Joshua19:

I agree with the two axioms you have put forward and think it is very reasonable to search for absolute truth pertaining to a "god" based on these axioms. How should we go about collecting evidence to substansiate all of the various claims of a god and of the nature of the god?

Well, I can't establish absolute axioms regarding everything. No one has been able to. However, I'd like to see where this goes.

Regarding evidence, I have observed absolutely no evidence pertaining to the supernatural; thus I must simply evaluate the claims of others. Before evaluating supernatural claims, we should establish some objective criteria by which we will analyze them (essentially to filter out all that is obviously untrue). Personally, I dismiss any supernatural claims that are:

-Contradictory

-Demonstratably Inaccurate

Often theists consider this unreasonable as we have free will, and thus have the ability to distort the Word of God, thus tainting the original message. What say you?

There are also subjective criteria we can establish, pertaining to such things as credibility, plausibility, rationality, etc, but I'd rather not get into that.

What would you like to evaluate first?

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

But is it true?

Who cares, so long as it works.

James Hetfield,

"misery,

loves company."

God is Love. We can't EXPECT the world to KNOW God's love in us, unless they've experienced it.

Alot of the time, we experience and forget about it, instead of walking in, or coming to the fullness thereof.



1 John 4:8KJV

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Paul said the following..

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 AMP

1 IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

2 And if I have prophetic powers (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).

3 Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or in order that I may glory, but have not love (God's love in me), I gain nothing.

4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([d]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].

9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).

10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.

12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood .

13 And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[b]1 Corinthians 14AMP

1 EAGERLY PURSUE and seek to acquire [this] love [make it your aim, your great quest];

Jesus was MOVED by Love. Everything He did, was out of Love and on account of Love.

Unfortunately, You don't OFTEN see the Power of the Spirit in manifestation, because, the FOUNDATION of walking IN LOVE, or IN GOD, isn't there. When you get into LOVE, you're getting into God, Himself.

Galatians 5:6 KJV

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 KJV

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

So brothers and sisters.. Work Faith, LABOUR IN LOVE, (Sowing) and Hope. "For what you hope for you will, with patience, wait for it."

In closing, with the hope of a God Chaser, who wouldn't stop running, until the race was over...

Philippians 3:10 Amp

[For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly], and that I may in that same way come to know the power outflowing from His resurrection [ which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually transformed [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope]

For fucks sake HellzShellz, this was a nice thread to read and follow until you had to spout your unfunded bullshit here. Let the real philosophers talk about this sort of stuff. I'm not saying that includes me, but me and other reasons just want to watch this thread develop.

It's ok. I love you.

You shouldn't need religion/god in order to love someone. It's very simple. All you have to do is think rationally. If you need to read bible for that then you are retarded, not to say more.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

You shouldn't need religion/god in order to love someone. It's very simple. All you have to do is think rationally. If you need to read bible for that then you are retarded, not to say more.

Do yall see this??

"ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS THINK.."

You rely on your own understanding, your own ability to reason, and ask questions, instead of THE TRUTH OF WHO GOD IS, which requires FAITH and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABILITY TO REASON.

It's harder to BELIEVE and overcome your DESIRE to REASON, than it is to fulfill the desire.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Do yall see this??

"ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS THINK.."

You rely on your own understanding, your own ability to reason, and ask questions, instead of THE TRUTH OF WHO GOD IS, which requires FAITH and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR ABILITY TO REASON.

It's harder to BELIEVE and overcome your DESIRE to REASON, than it is to fulfill the desire.



The time humanity overcomes desire to reason, earth will die. Pray to your god for that to never happen.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Do yall see this??

You rely on your own understanding, your own ability to reason, and ask questions,

And as far as I can remember, your god apparently gave me my brain to do just that...

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

And as far as I can remember, your god apparently gave me my brain to do just that...



I wasn't argueing, I was pointing out what YOU stated, by your own admission, you rely on your own understanding.

Those of faith understand, man is threefold. He's a spirit, with a MIND, living in a body. Bill Winston put it like this, "The subconcious [mind] is there to keep you [a spirit]in line with what you [a spirit] believe. YOU SET THE LIMITATION.

Oneness is where you believe GOD to the FULLEST. Where doubt can no longer abide. Once you step over into oneness, with God, In spirit, Mind, and action.. God is manifested. If you're "TRANSFORMED, by the renewing of your MIND," and BELIEVE GOD, Your BODY ABSOLUTELY HAS TO SUBMIT TO YOUR MIND, JUST AS YOUR MIND MUST SUBMIT TO YOUR SPIRIT.

**Maybe you don't understand, but perhaps you may.**

Ohhi, I know you don't know who this person is, but I would really encourage you to look into him. They called him 'an apostle of faith'. His name is Smith Wigglesworth. IN HIS MINISTRY, 23 people were RAISED FROM THE DEAD, and hundreds healed. Even though this occured from the Late 1800s until the early 1900's, it's still HISTORICAL.

The truth is, it isn't about who he was, it's about what he allowed Christ to do THROUGH him.

He was known for saying, "ONLY BELIEVE!" "I'm a thousand times bigger on the indisde than on the outside!" "Fear looks when faith jumps!"

This man, Quit school at the age of 7, and GOD did MUCH through him. God taught him EVERYTHING HE BELIEVED.



God chooses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.



[This message has been edited by HellzShellz (edited 03-13-2006).]

Of course, you BASE your STATEMENTS on the opinion that God DOES EXIST, even if you have NO PROOF FOR IT. You see, there is NO UNIVERSAL TRUTH, except for the FACT that there is NO UNIVERSAL TRUTH. But one may ARGUE that I have JUST stated a "UNIVERSAL TRUTH", contradicting what I have just SAID.

So two things:

-God still has to prove his existance to me.

-Stop capitalising random words, it's annoying, induces headaches and just makes it hard to read what the fuck you're writing.

his arguments are based on 100 year old philosophy, even if he doesn't know it...

well joshua, i liked the idea but let's face it, this is totse.

i find the best way to 'god,' 'love,' 'kia,' 'nirvana,' or whatever is through serious intellectual contemplation and quiet inner meditation. of course, i don't know god or love, so what do i know...

to doctor crabbe, is accepted among modern philosophers that god can be known by faith alone.

premise 1 and 2 are interesting, but 2 is false. there are some instances were gravity does not exist, unless i've got my physics wrong. of course, we as humans will never experience those conditions...

the thing is, god will never be found by science. if god is found by science, than there isn't really anything supernatural about him then is there? god would become a vacation resort, or a holy passerby flagging down a taxi.

oh yeah, find god within ourselves, express god's love to mankind, yada yada yada, heaven on earth.

To answer your first question I have to agree and disagree. I agree that nothing true can be contradictory or demonstratably inaccurate. However concerning the supernatural, because it is beyond beyond our natural understanding, we must accept the possibility that something which is entirely reasonable and truthfull on a higher or different plane may appear to minds on another plane as being contradictory. A child may think his parents to be contradicting themselves when they say they love the child but then at the same time discipline and restrain the child from doing as he pleases. The child perceives a contradiction only because he is on a lower level and only sees love as something which grants pleasure. The parents being on a different level and having a fuller understanding of love know that true love is not only the granting of pleasure but also the enforcment of discipline for the sake of protection. Similarly we may in our immature understanding say it is a contradiction that a God who is all loving and all powerfull would allow suffering. In are human minds it makes perfect sense that this is a contradiction because we have a lacking in our understanding of what love and power are. But if God is indeed our Father it is not only possible but most likely that He has a fuller understanding of love and power therefore his behavior will be in accord with His higher understanding and will therefore seem contradictory to creatures of lesser understanding. Basically what I'm trying to say is that inorder for someone to prove something contradictory or inaccurate, they must within themselves have no contradictions or inaccuracies. I know that this statement in itself could possibly open another can of worms and I'd be willing to discuss it more if you find it necessary, but I do hope to get on to start evaluating some claims.

I wouldn't have confidence speaking for someone else so let's first evaluate my claims of the supernatural. I claim that there is one source of all things that are made, who is God and has created all things. God created man with a body and a mind, and the mind is spirit. Existence is made of many dimensions, many of these dimensions are spiritual. Just as there are binding physical laws, there are binding spiritual laws. The physical laws are representations of and are in accordance with the spiritual laws. Through building line upon line and precept upon precept, grasping understanding of these physical and spiritual laws we can build up an understanding of truth and the nature of all things.

Unfortunately all things are so vast that we don't even know the limits (if there even are any). In the face of an infinite or nearly infinite amount of information it would take much more time than a lifetime to learn it all an much more capacity than a brain to store it all, but without having all of it all at once we cannot be complete in our understanding. The eternal soul of a person may continue for eternity chasing down infinity, going on in endless circles for ever trying to figure out something it will never grasp. God, having created all things, knows and understands all things all at once. He desires for us to have the same understanding as he has, but desires that we trust in him to show us the truth in the way he has deemed fit for us. The story of Adam and Eve points to this concept.

God has given man free will and put before him the choice of choosing to follow his lead or choosing to rebel and gain understanding by our own means, in essence denying the goodness of God and making ourselves our own God believing ourselves wiser than God. This is pride and pride is contrary to love. God does not require that we follow him because he is proud or vain, but because he is the creator and inorder to maintain order balance and peace all things must move in the same direction, otherwise there is chaos and conflict. He has set himself at the top because that is his place in the order of things. We are to follow his lead because he contains all truth, while we individually have no such capacity. If we obey and follow he will build us up to our full capacity wherein we will fit into our proper place in the order of God and therefore be lacking nothing. Those who choose to rebel and puff themselves up with knowledge trying to become a God unto themselves may appear to be far greater in understanding than those who have chosen submission and obedience, however all of their understanding is built up on a foundation contrary to the natural order which the creator has establihed and they will always being contrary to God and in conflict with him until eventually they are worn out cast off and destroyed.

As we know from physical laws, even though an object like a rocket may appear to succesfully gain victory over the law of gravity, it is merely exerting stored energy opposing the force of gravity, and once it's energy is burned out it will again appear is it truly is, powerless against the force of gravity. The same goes for spiritual laws, they may can be resisted for a time, but once all the energy is spent we faw back under the proper order of things.

The law which governs spirit is the law of Love. Love is the absence of pride. It is the giving up of ones self for the sake of another. Love is from God and of God, and pointing to God, and God is Love. For love to be complete it must be not only in word or thought but also action and in truth. While Love can be shared between two people who do not know eachother, their love is brought to fullness when they meet face to face and when they have oppertunity to lay down their lives for eachother sharing of what they have to meet the others needs. God being the founder of this principle has manifest it to us on our level in hopes of consumating His love for us and ours for him.

In order for God to show his love for us he must give of himself to satisfy some need that we have. SInce creation began there has been a leader of the opposition to God's order. The leader of this oppostion was an extremely powerfull force, given great power and authority, but used his free will to oppose God out of pride and desire to be greater than his appointed place in the order. It was this powerfull force who being much wiser than man, easily deceived man in the story of Adam and Eve. Ever since then this force as owned almost all men as his slaves driving them, some knowingly and some unknowingly, as soldiers in his war against the true God. Many believe that this force is God and many serve him knowing he is not but being trapped by his devices. Over time very few have excaped this forces powerfull pull. Those who did, were in service to and communion with the true God and spoke from their mouths words that were given by God about how we are to follow him and how we are to escape and and resist the opposing rebellion. These men also spoke of events that would take place in the future to prepare the men of God for what lies ahead and to give them hope for the victory. One of these prophecies which many different prophets spoke of often was of the day God would come to earth as a man, displaying his love for us, suffering for us and delivering us once and for all from the bonds of the evil force.

Just at the time which was predicted, In order to fullfill the law of love, God has manifest as a man, walking the earth in a body of flesh just as we are men, being subject to all that men are subject to. He resisted the evil one and spoke nothing but pure unadulterated truth. Because his life was so contrary to the agenda of the evil force, the evil force caused his servants to apprehend, torture and kill the man of God. Death itself being a power of the evil force had no restraining effect on this man and he rose up from death, three days after being burried, appeared to many people (at one time more than 500 at once). He told people that the only way to serve God and be free from evil is to follow his example, dying to self, dying to pride, and suffering for the good of others, loving in word and in action. He also said we must believe in him and what he has done even though others say contrary. Many perceive this as a call to blind faith. What they fail to see is that the action of this man which took place and was recorded in history fits perfectly in line with all of the laws of physics and of spirit. The action is another test like the test of Adam. If we can recognize and see what true love is and true wisdom, reading the words from him and about him will pierce our hearts and prove what we are really made of, whether it be of Love or of pride.

Having given himself as a ransom to the evil one, God has freed us from the power of evil. The door is now open, but it is now we ourselves who must actually walk out of our prison and flee from all the enticements the evil one uses to keep us there. Much of the reason we remain in bondage to evil is because we are unwilling to agree to one central truth, that is this: We must above all else Love God with our heart, mind, soul and strength and love our fellow man as ourselves. If we truly focus on doing this above all else it acts as a key which in proper order opens doors to lead us into all understanding, something we could never achieve without this love principle as our core and foundation.

This is a very brief version of my claim of the supernatural, and I am sure that you can now clearly identify me as what is called a christian. Preferring not to be confused with the christianity of Constantine but rather of that christianity which existed before the word Christian was a word, I would prefer to be known as a disciple of Yeshua, who was the man from God who delivered us. I actually don't mind being called christian, but please try to avoid pegging me with all of the false ways of the church of today. I believe the church of our day is an abomination in the sight of God where very few are truly following him.

Anyway, feel free to pick through my claim and rub in my face all of the contrdictions and errors therein, as I am sure there are many. But if you can see past my feeble ability to explain great things and my poor usage of the english language I encourage you to ask honest questions, coming from your heart. Much of this explanation I have given is from my brain but brains will someday pass and be eaten by maggots so hopefully we can speak more from the heart with eachother and how these claims effect us deep down inside past all of the human logic and reasoning. Thanks for the oppertunity to share my claim. I look forward to your questions and objections.

I wrote that last reply to jsaxton not having yet read all of the other stuff that transpired since jsaxtons last post. Thank you everyone else for your input. Thank you Hellz Shellz for the extensive scripture quotations, very edifying. Thank you also for standing firm in the truth and speaking not as one wise with enticing words but rather, speaking as a fool for the gospel, a true believer, God bless you. Kenwih, thank you for your humor and sound reason, your ideas are pretty interesting. Thank you ohhi and dre crabbe for your cynicism and skepticism, I appriciate your input. Thank you also Dre crabbe for your gentle verbal persecution of HellzShellz, it does christians good to be persecuted, sharpening their ability to love those who revile them. Thanks, I'm curious to hear more from all of you.

quote:

What is love? How can it be shown or proven? What are it's characteristics, and manifestations in physical reality?





I can't quite answer those. I don't think such a thing can really be described. I believe, as with most things, love is something that has to be experienced to understand it.

I agree with you, love is beyond words, but we can experience it, how then do we experience love if not by some physical phenomena that transmitted or carried the message of love to us. What is an example of something that happened to you that made you experience love, what has someone done for you that showed that they love you, an action which proved love beyond any words?

quote:Originally posted by Joshua19:

I agree with you, love is beyond words, but we can experience it, how then do we experience love if not by some physical phenomena that transmitted or carried the message of love to us. What is an example of something that happened to you that made you experience love, what has someone done for you that showed that they love you, an action which proved love beyond any words?I felt it before this even, it didn't at all have to be shown, but crying because of the lack of words there are to say it. If there had ever been any doubts before that would have proved it.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

You shouldn't need religion/god in order to love someone. It's very simple. All you have to do is think rationally. If you need to read bible for that then you are retarded, not to say more.

Jesus says something like that. he says if you love your fellow man you are loving god. Like jesus says you are either against me or your with me. So just love your fellow man and god will love you. Because by loving your fellow man you are loving god. Because we are creations of god. It is the same as if you love your mother than take care of your brother.

Cyanogenic glycoside, please pardon my ignorance, but I'm not entirely sure what you meant in that last post, Would you mind clarifying a little bit, thanks.

fuckwar89, I'm afraid you may be altering what Jesus said a bit. He said that the way you treat your fellow man is seen in God's eyes as the way in which you treat God. If you love your fellow man, (care for them, give to the needy, visit and help those in trouble etc...) it's as if you've done the same for God. nowhere, However does this even begin to imply that loving God as a seperate entity from man is unnecessary. In fact there are many instances where Jesus stresses the importance of loving and honoring God, specifically apart from loving man. He clearly makes a distinction when he says, "Love God with your heart, mind, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." If loving fellow man was the only thing Jesus required, he wouldn't have any need to make this distinction, putting the love of God before the love of fellow man. Afterall to love anyone or anything more than God is idolatry.

To compare what ohhi said to the words of Jesus is a very far stretch, Jesus Prayed constantly to his Father God, and told his disciples to do likewise, When someone called him good he even said "why do you call me good, no one is good but the Father." This doesn't sound at all like someone who has no regard for God or religion. Jesus did heavily criticize the religious teachers of the days, but only those who were hypocritical and not being true to the heart of the religion. Another very religious man, John the baptist Jesus esteemed greatly calling him the greatest prophet to ever walk the earth. Jesus also often quoted the prophets and religious men of old to state the basis of his ministry and prove who he was. Jesus never came to belittle God or religion in the least, he came to Purify our religion turn our hearts back to God, not away from him.

You paraphrased Jesus saying "you are either against me or you are with me" the context of this paraphrase is when a man who is not one of the apostles is doing miracles in the Name of Jesus. This doesn't imply at all that merely loving people makes you with Jesus, This scripture only says that someone who is doing miracles in the name of Jesus is with Jesus, to go ahead and include in that group everyone who loves their neighbor is a stretch (at least from basing your assumption on that scripture)

I can see what you're getting at, the idea that it doesn't matter if you have a religion or not or what religion you have, the only thing that matters is if you have love. Yes I absolutely agree that what matters to God and to Jesus is that we Love everyone equally and treat all people with love and give up of ourselves for them. But If this love is not from God and with God then it is against God. If someone denies God saying their is no God or if he worships a false God all of his love is void since it hasn't come from God who is the source of all love. Most of the love going around these days is a front, it's poliically correct love, cheap, weak, short lasting, non-sacrificing, and usually only existant because it benefits the one who is loving. This is not love at all, but a cheap imitation, certainly not from God. True love is unconditional, everlasting, and willing to suffer painfully and die at any moment for the sake of every man woman and child on this planet, no matter how good or bad they are. If you can find me one person who has this kind of love, I will believe that they are of God and with God no matter what their religious creed may be. I hear many people going on about how love is all you need and love this and love that, but it's all a bunch of cheap, fake love that is words only but not true in their hearts. Find me one of these proffessing "lovers of all humanity" who is willing to be tortured and die to save the life of George W. Bush. Of course they wouldn't, because he's the enemy and their love only lasts as far as their circle of friends or whatever group of oppressed peoples it is popular to rally for at the time.

Forgive me for going off on a tangent but it's very important that we know what true love is... Just being willing to treat people nice as often as possible is not love, it's part of it, buts it's not the fullness of it. Anyone can treat people nice for the sake of selfish gain. Love is giving of yourself, sacrificing yourself for others.

All we need is love, Love is the way, and the answer to every problem.... REAL LOVE that is, who has it, where is it, how do we get it?

quote:Originally posted by Joshua19:

REAL LOVE [...] who has it, where is it, how do we get it?

Opium. Find it in Afghanistan. High-grade stuff going for a hundred bucks a truck at your nearest Afghan wholesale dealer.