Alright Everyone,

Christians believe that the Pagan beliefs are all Lucifer worshipping, Baby sacraficing, Orgy having, nonsence. ( By the way, we don't even believe in a Lucifer,so we can't worship such a being.) But how many of them know what Paganism or Wicca actually is? Not many, nor do many know the similarities between the two. I'd like to explain a few things to all you stubborn Christians who refuse to listen to what we say while you beat us with a cross.

Paganism is one of the earliest forms of religion, ans though it was very shortly ago actual "Paganism" formed, the beliefs, witchcraft and magick we performed was around. Witchcraft is NOT evil, we do not conjure up demons to perform magickal rites, We simply use the living, breathing Earths natural magickal energies and bend it's energies. Basicly, we are using the Earths magickal energies and the energies of the Gods or Goddesses we call forth.

WE DO NOT DO BLACK MAGICK! Although there are witches ( Witch is the term for any person who performs magick, male or female.) who do black magick, most of us are of the right handed path. There are two paths in witchcraft, the Left Handed Path, and the Right Handed Path. The Left Handed Path is that of dark magick, Hex's, Curses, other bad shit. The Right Handed Path, that of which most of us follow, is of white, or good magick, healing, protection, other good

shit like that. We have our own system of the Christians " Golden Rule", in a way, which is called the Wiccan Rede. It simply states, "Bide the wiccan law ye must, in perfect love and perfect trust. Eight words the wiccan rede fulfill, an at harm none, do what ye wil. And lest in self-defense it be, ever mind the rule of three. Follow this with miind and heart, merry ye meet and merry ye part. " Meaning, we don't believe in a basic 10 commandment basis, we understand the humans natural tendencies to feel jelousy, to have sex, to be human, and we believe that as long as no-one gets hurt, unless it is to defend, you get the rule of three, which is " Whatever you cast into the world comes back times three."

Some of us believe in one god and one goddess, with many names and traits, and some of us believe in many different Gods and Goddess's. Ranging from the beliefs of the ancient Greek Gods, ( Ie. Athena, Zeus, Heracles) and, my personal favorite to study, the Norse Gods and Goddess's. ( Odin, Thor,Loki, Freya.) REAL Pagans tolerate other religions, even if we do not really agree or believe in what that religion states. We do not put down another religion, although we may question in a way of, " Why is this so?" but we will not say " That's wrong." And many of us are curiouse of other religions. We like to learn about other beliefs in the world, and often adopt other beliefs. We don't believe that out Gods and Goddess's are the ONLY ones. This gives you all a little insight, I didn't include All the details because that would take pages upon pages to type, but this should give enough of a spark to begin a conversation, if anyone has any other question u can contact me at king_nirvana111@yahoo.com I also have Yahoo instant messaging, add me.



[This message has been edited by Nirvan (edited 03-21-2006).]

Do you believe in magic? (http://theimaginaryworld.com/igk90.jpg)

of cource I do, i perfrom ritual magick...

Well, you can't speak ƒor all Pagans you know. I am certianly not beyond summoning a demon on someone, but that's only if they piss me off. For the most part I use what abilities I do posess to help my friends and myself, not to harm others.

I know how you feel about the way christians preceive Paganism, but there is little that can be done to change that. Even beating the crap out oƒ one loud-mouthed christian may change the minds oƒ a ƒew, but never enough to make a diƒƒerence. Non-violent solutions as well have their limits, so I just don't bother with christians anymore. It seems there is nothing I can do or say to convince them that not all Pagans are evil, which isn't to say that some aren't, because there are certianly evil pagans in the world, just as their are evil people oƒ every single religion. Iƒ a christian tries to tell me what a pagan is, I simply laugh and walk away. It's no use argueing with a halƒ wit.

I wasn't speaking for all of us, The information was mainly targetted at Pagans stricly of the right handed path, who never do any black magick, and the ones who do not believe in demons ( like me) but believe in evil spirits, which is virtually the same thing. Actually I stopped as well, I had an account in school awhile back ago, I was wearing a Pentacle necklace, and a teacher looked at it and asked " Can I burn this?" It pissed me off, but I kept my cool and calmly asked, looking at her cross necklace, " Can I throw your cross into a fire?" She said no, so I simply walked away....but as soon as I was out of her site I kinda punched the wall, hard enough to bust 3 of my knuckles open ( I have anger issues, lol)

There's no such thing as "Paganism." The term "pagan" refers to anything non-Christian.

quote:Originally posted by Nirvan:

Alright Everyone,

Christians believe that the Pagan beliefs are all Lucifer worshipping, Baby sacraficing, [b]Orgy having, nonsence.

Umm....Pagans in fact do have a celebration where they have a big orgy. The name of this holiday is Beltaine, where everyone goes on a big naked camping trip. Tons of alcohol and naked women. Condoms are also passed out. Not a pagan, but I went to chill out with them. IMO it was way better than christianity ever can be.

Wicca is (for the most part) a retarded trend and nothing more. Just a bunch of goths who think they have superpowers. It's like Scientology only dumber.

Stop saying "OMGZ WE DO MAGICK" because you don't. Yeah. STFU.

[This message has been edited by Reverend Abnormal (edited 03-22-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by NeoIceshroom:

Well, you can't speak ƒor all Pagans you know. I am certianly not beyond summoning a demon on someone, but that's only if they piss me off. For the most part I use what abilities I do posess to help my friends and myself, not to harm others.

I know how you feel about the way christians preceive Paganism, but there is little that can be done to change that. Even beating the crap out oƒ one loud-mouthed christian may change the minds oƒ a ƒew, but never enough to make a diƒƒerence. Non-violent solutions as well have their limits, so I just don't bother with christians anymore. It seems there is nothing I can do or say to convince them that not all Pagans are evil, which isn't to say that some aren't, because there are certianly evil pagans in the world, just as their are evil people oƒ every single religion. Iƒ a christian tries to tell me what a pagan is, I simply laugh and walk away. It's no use argueing with a halƒ wit.

Can't you ƒucking use your ƒucking F KEY?!

Hocus Pocus -

i'll do trick if you pull my finger!

1; how do you decide on the 'gods and godesses' names?

2; do you have cerebral paulsy?

3: are you just another warped dipshit who knows fuckall about nothing?

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

There's no such thing as "Paganism." The term "pagan" refers to anything non-Christian.

A paganistic religion is one that worships more than one god. Islam is not Christianity, and Muslims aren't pagans, are they? I suppose you're right that "Paganism" in itself isn't actually a religion; Nirvan was talking about Wicca, which is a from of paganism.

ok im a christian, i dont beleive paganism is worshiping satan, i do know what paganism and wicca. even though i am a christian i hold to some pagan views, i believe that people including christians have far to little respect for nature. i am truly sorry that christians have made you think we are all bad. i respect all of your views, i even share some of them, but not all. please do not judge all christians just based on those who have been unkind to you

moby_dick you are a retard,their is a such a thing called paganism and it is not just any thing not christian as you say. ever heard of the druids, my direct ancestors.

quote:Originally posted by moby_dick:

A paganistic religion is one that worships more than one god. Islam is not Christianity, and Muslims aren't pagans, are they? I suppose you're right that "Paganism" in itself isn't actually a religion; Nirvan was talking about Wicca, which is a from of paganism.

You're thinking polytheistic, not paganistic, dumbass.

pa·gan ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pgn)

n.

One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.

One who has no religion.

A non-Christian.

A hedonist.

A Neo-Pagan.

adj.

Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.

Professing no religion; heathen.

Neo-Pagan.



[This message has been edited by SurahAhriman (edited 03-23-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by moby_dick:

A paganistic religion is one that worships more than one god.

No, because Christians would call Buddhists pagans as well.

quote: Islam is not Christianity, and Muslims aren't pagans, are they?

You're right, I should have been more clear. "Pagan" refers to anyone not following the Judeo-Christian monotheistic God.

quote:I suppose you're right that "Paganism" in itself isn't actually a religion; Nirvan was talking about Wicca, which is a from of paganism.

Wicca is a bullshit hodge-podge of other legitimate faiths. And again, there is no such thing as "paganism."

quote:Originally posted by insaneScorcerer:

ever heard of the druids, my direct ancestors.



Oh yes, your DIRECT ancestors. Never mind that practically anyone in the British Isles or Ireland who was not Christian got burned at the stake and shit like that. You come from a LONG line of hardcore Druids.

Even I'll admit that my Danish ancestors gave up on Norse polytheism. Hell, some of them were Jews. Unless you're from Iceland, it's highly unlikely that any of your ancestors never became Christian.

Regardless of what the dictionary says, Paganism is a religion. It is not about witchcraft and hocus pocus bullshit. It is believe in many gods, and in mother earth. Wiccan is a form of Paganism, just like Catholicism is a part of Christianity, but Christianity isn't Catholicism, like all Pagans are not Wiccan.

Any of you that think that it isn't a religion, then I ask you to actually look into the religion before you even try to bash it.

No I'm not a pagan, but my sister and an ex-girlfriend both were.

Then your sister and ex don't know what the hell they're talking about. They're probably following some cute fluffbunny bullshit and calling it whatever they feel like.

Not all christians beleive pagans are evil. My church tells people to accept people no matter what religon they are.

In general pagan means anything non christian, however recently Pagan and Paganism have come to refer to certain religious groups, one of the most famous is Wicca.

In general I find it quite funny whenever I hear christians talk about Pagan sacrifices or Pagan rituals. Christianity if full of animal and human sacrifices and "magical" God appeasing rituals.

First off ill say im not a pagan or a Christian. Im just someone with common sense.

It is true paganism means someone who does not follow a main stream religion, but that does not mean that it can also mean that you worship nature. Incase none of you shallow minded morons have realized words can have alternate meanings. Maybe all you people should retake your English classes!!!



[This message has been edited by Dont_try_to_run (edited 03-23-2006).]

alrighty then,

fresh_death,

1.we do not "decide" the Gods and Goddess's names, nor do I believe they have name, but we created names for them, so that we could directly refer to them.

2. I have never heard that term before, sorry, Don't take this as me not being a real Pagan, I just have not been studying long, one year or so, and I am mainly studying in animal magick.

3. No I am not a " warped dipshit who knows fuckall about nothing," I know what I believe in, and I am actively studying. However I am not branching my studies far yet, I am mainly focused on what I am mostly entrested in, which is animal magick.

--

insaneScorcerer,

THANK YOU!

For being educated,open minded and tolerant. I was not speaking for ALL Christians, I have several Christian friends who know I am Pagan. They all know. Some of them respect my beliefs, but do not want any part in it, and I respect that. Others asked questions about what I believed in, and I happily educate them to the best of my ability. I do know that there are some Christians out there who know what we are and don't hate us, but you have got to admit, about 7 out of 10 know nothing about the religion but still hate us, and only about 2 out of 10 actually know exactly what the majority of us who are of the right handed path believe in, and still hate us. But over-all, I thank you and I encourage you to spread the truth.

TO ALL THE REST OF YOU!

This was not ment to cause bitter arguing, Everyone is entitled to there own oppinions, let that angry Christian make fun of us, let that ignorant man say he knows what the religion is but know nothing if he doesn't want to learn. Come-on people, grow up...

My music teacher is a pagan (wicca to be exact). She has to hide it from most of her students, because most of them are super uber religous. It isn't right. I like pie.

i thought pagan meant pre-christianity. worshipping more than one God would just be a polytheist.

seriously... paganism = modern christianity. no difference. if christians really celebrated christmas the way it is supposed to be celebrated, they would have a birthday cake out saying happy b-day jesus. not setting up a christmas tree and buying gifts just for the sake of christmas.

I have a hunch that the average age of the posters in this thread (The_Rabbi and myself excluded) is 13. How close am I?

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

I have a hunch that the average age of the posters in this thread (The_Rabbi and myself excluded) is 13. How close am I?

20 here.

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

[B] if christians really celebrated christmas the way it is supposed to be celebrated, they would have a birthday cake out saying happy b-day jesus. B]

Thats how my one aunt celebrates it.

okay...

postdiluvium, no, Paganism does not = Modern Christianity at all, a more truthfull wya to put it would be Christianity= Watered down Pagan origins...and why do you suspect that Gorloche? I myself am fifteen, running on a year or two of Paganism, my grandmother is also pagan, shes around 50 or so. It is not only teenagers who do Wicca practice. Magick is performed by all ages, all around the world. I've been in a ritual that had a seven year old gurl, ( who knew how to do everything perfectly) a teenager ( me) a middle aged woman, a rather elderly woman, and an extremly elderly man, who was to old to walk, he performed the ritual in a wheel chair. So, the practices are not a "Teenager Phase" or any kind of teenager thing...

anyways,

I am glad to see 3 or 4 posts that don't include someone ripping on someone else or putting down each others oppinions...^_^

While the etymology is very different, this word developed in a similar semantic pattern as heathen.

The English word pagan is from the Latin paganus or someone who lives in a rural district, or pagus. In Latin, the word meant a villager or rustic, and was also used as an antonym for miles, or soldier.

The term appears in English in the 14th century. In English usage, it means a non-Christian, or someone who is not a soldier of Christ, a sense that had developed in the Latin by the 4th century AD.

(shamelessly quoted from WordOrigins (http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorp.htm))

[This message has been edited by ChaosWyrm (edited 03-30-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by: The Rabbi

There's no such thing as "Paganism." The term "pagan" refers to anything non-Christian.

Actually, to the christian church yes and probably most of mainstream USA, but to everyone else it means someone following one of the old, rural religions. Paganism is now a name used to signify this generally.

Pagan religions now generally tend to be more focused either on worshipping one of the older gods - like a return to roots over here in the UK, or simply being at one with nature - looking after her like she has nurtured you.

quote:Originally posted by: The Rabbi

Wicca is a bullshit hodge-podge of other legitimate faiths. And again, there is no such thing as "paganism."

Yes, Wicca is bullshit, finally - something we agree on Rabb. It is a bunch of shite peddled to teenagers who want to be able to say "Look at me! I practice magic!" But yet again on the pagan thing, give it a rest. Grab an up to date dictionary while you are at it.

quote:Originally posted by: The Rabbi

Oh yes, your DIRECT ancestors. Never mind that practically anyone in the British Isles or Ireland who was not Christian got burned at the stake and shit like that. You come from a LONG line of hardcore Druids.



Dude, please stop for a moment. The British Isles isnt some tiny little island with a population of under 1m. And not to mention the fact that until a few hundred years ago it was largely wild and covered in a hell of a lot of forest. Quite a number of the old religions, the Druids included, were not wiped out. The english were at war with the Welsh and the Scottish at more than one point - dont see them getting totally wiped out do you?

Just to mention - look at the christian holidays - the majority of them are based on, or taken directly from, pagan-based religious holidays.



Now onto nirvan:

quote:Originally posted by: Nirvan

Witch is the term for any person who performs magick, male or female

No, No, No, No, No! You are talking SHIT. Witch is a term used by some, some male and female magick practitioners. Mainly, if not solely, those who partake in "wicca". Try telling a chaote, or an eclectic pagan for example that they are a witch. You are going to get yourself hurt - or worse. I suggest you spend some time reading up on things before yous start trying to bullshit yourself around things.

quote:Originally posted by: Nirvan

Bide the wiccan law ye must, in perfect love and perfect trust. Eight words the wiccan rede fulfill, an at harm none, do what ye wil. And lest in self-defense it be, ever mind the rule of three. Follow this with miind and heart, merry ye meet and merry ye part.

Again, the wiccan rede. Followed by wiccans - not even all of them. Most of them just pretend to follow these things, pretend to practice magick because remember, its kool to be a witch. *rolls eyes*

quote:Originally posted by Nirvan:

Whatever you cast into the world comes back times three.

Absolute bullshit.

So that fly I squished yesterday - is that going to come and bite me in the ass? How about when I drain someone's pranic energy and feed it into my own? Is something terrible going to happen to me - that is assuming you know what pranic energy is you empty headed little teen-shit.

quote:Originally posted by: Nirvan

we do not "decide" the Gods and Goddess's names, nor do I believe they have name, but we created names for them, so that we could directly refer to them.

No, the gods were created by yourselves, without realising. You name them because you are too weak minded, like every other human on the planet, to refer to something without a label - its natural.

quote:Originally posted by: Nirvan

No I am not a " warped dipshit who knows fuckall about nothing," I know what I believe in, and I am actively studying. However I am not branching my studies far yet, I am mainly focused on what I am mostly entrested in, which is animal magick.

Yes, Yes you are a warped dipshit who knows fuckall about anything. You do not know what you believe in. I linked to this site before on a totse post - so I will do it again for you. Take a look through this section of this site: htt p://www.sp iralnature .com/magic k/chaos/ (http: //www.spir alnature.c om/magick/ chaos/)

Oh and get your fucking act together.



[This message has been edited by sikkoabbadon (edited 03-30-2006).]

your url was broken http://tinyurl.com/z3jjh