Alright. This is only for creationists- others may reply, but not answer the question as it is not applicable.

Creationists, lets say we found a time machine (found, because it is likely time machines can't go back to before they were created) in nature somehow, and we used it. Say you were taken back in it, shown the ancient Earth, shown evolution, and shown that it is much much older than genesis claims.

Say you are on the trip yourself and it is proven to you beyond any doubt completely.

I am not asking you to accept evolution, don't get defensive or coy. I just want to know.

So now creation has been proven wrong, and you know that it is wrong.

What does that mean for you? Are you still christian? Do you lose your faith? Do you grasp for straws even harder then before? What happens when the faith that kept you going proves completely wrong? Do you still believe the rest of the bible? Are your previous beliefs still compatible knowing that evolution was true, or does your religion fall apart?

I don't want to argue about creation vs. evolution now. However, a fundamental aspect of belief is the acknowledgement that you may be wrong, and you should know what that means. I don't have a problem with this, but I understand that many christians have problems admitting they were wrong.

Don't read into this though; again, I'm not accusing you of being wrong. I just want to know how creationists would react if they themselves had to accept evolution. Purely hypothetical.

(and no answers like, "well...it won't happen and I can't answer because God's will is infallible")

i think that if that part of the bible has been wrong what is there to say that the rest is made up.

but for now, i beleive that God created the earth all that time ago.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

Alright. This is only for creationists- others may reply, but not answer the question as it is not applicable.

Creationists, lets say we found a time machine (found, because it is likely time machines can't go back to before they were created) in nature somehow, and we used it. Say you were taken back in it, shown the ancient Earth, shown evolution, and shown that it is much much older than genesis claims.

Say you are on the trip yourself and it is proven to you beyond any doubt completely.

I am not asking you to accept evolution, don't get defensive or coy. I just want to know.

So now creation has been proven wrong, and you know that it is wrong.

What does that mean for you? Are you still christian? Do you lose your faith? Do you grasp for straws even harder then before? What happens when the faith that kept you going proves completely wrong? Do you still believe the rest of the bible? Are your previous beliefs still compatible knowing that evolution was true, or does your religion fall apart?

I don't want to argue about creation vs. evolution now. However, a fundamental aspect of belief is the acknowledgement that you may be wrong, and you should know what that means. I don't have a problem with this, but I understand that many christians have problems admitting they were wrong.

Don't read into this though; again, I'm not accusing you of being wrong. I just want to know how creationists would react if they themselves had to accept evolution. Purely hypothetical.

(and no answers like, "well...it won't happen and I can't answer because God's will is infallible")

There are alot of "Old-age" Creationists, most notably, Hugh Ross. There are probably even theistic evolutionists. It hasn't hurt their faith.

Suppose this hypothetical situation were turned around you and you come to realize that the opposite is true. How would it affect you?

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

There are alot of "Old-age" Creationists, most notably, Hugh Ross. There are probably even theistic evolutionists. It hasn't hurt their faith.

Suppose this hypothetical situation were turned around you and you come to realize that the opposite is true. How would it affect you?





Hmm, you didn't answer the question. I asked not of others, but you. By 'old age' creationists, do you mean the 12,000 year old or do you mean the acknowledgement that evolution has disproved literal intepretation?

Because yes, I do agree that christians can accept evolution and still be faithful, but most creationists at this point cannot, almost irrelevant of evidence. I mean, you've heard the statements that, uh I forget which site but you know what I mean, that says a statement along the lines of "If any evidence proves contrary to the literal belief of the bible then it is automatically false and invalid." The defense of the belief to ludacrisy is unhealthy and badly deceiving yourself.

However, I will actually answer your question instead of dodging it.

If creation as stated directly in the bible was proved true, (meaning God literally creating the Earth in seven days with Adam and Eve and all the other simplistic stories) I would accept it. I do not deceive myself in the slightest. I make no claims like, "All evidence that goes against evolution is invalid" and such. Most (if not all) of the evidence that goes against evolution is invalid, but that evidence is invalid by its own merit scientifically and not because I make some golden law of disbelief.

If creation is proved true, I will have no problems admitting I was wrong. I am not self deluded in the slightest. I may be wrong, but would have no problems accepting that.

So, let me restate the question I would like you to answer: How would the disproving of creation change you? I want to know what your new beliefs would be and what you would say in your defense after creation was proven wrong.

Old earth creationists accept the earth as being billions of years old.

Of course you asked the individual opinions of creationists here, but most Young Earth creationist groups require all their members to tie their faith into creationism. Many groups attack other young earth groups that have slightly different claims, let alone those that accept an old earth or gasp evolution with hiccups (Intelligent Design), as bad or false christians.

Dath gave the common answer. Many believe that if any part of the bible isn't literally true, it throws everything else out the window.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IanBoyd3:



Hmm, you didn't answer the question. I asked not of others, but you.

What does that mean for you?

It doesn't mean much because I could just as easily be an Old earth creationist or a theistic evolutionist.

Are you still christian?

I guess that would all depend on whether or not certain evidence presents itself or not.

Do you lose your faith?

Quite possibly.

Do you grasp for straws even harder then before?

I wasn't aware of straws being grasped to begin with.

What happens when the faith that kept you going proves completely wrong?

As new evidence presents itself I would conform to the truth, whatever the truth may be.

Do you still believe the rest of the bible?

Yes, just a loose interpretation instead of a more literal one.

Are your previous beliefs still compatible knowing that evolution was true, or does your religion fall apart?

Read prior statements.

Does that suffice?

Time machine?

... you evolutionist and your science and your books and your schooling. HA! Creation is good enough for me. I don't need any of that medications, science, technology, laboratory abracadabra, and such.

::sarcasm::

There is such a group of people out there who can be best described as liberal christians.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:



Hmm, you didn't answer the question. I asked not of others, but you.

What does that mean for you?

It doesn't mean much because I could just as easily be an Old earth creationist or a theistic evolutionist.

Are you still christian?

I guess that would all depend on whether or not certain evidence presents itself or not.

Do you lose your faith?

Quite possibly.

Do you grasp for straws even harder then before?

I wasn't aware of straws being grasped to begin with.

What happens when the faith that kept you going proves completely wrong?

As new evidence presents itself I would conform to the truth, whatever the truth may be.

Do you still believe the rest of the bible?

Yes, just a loose interpretation instead of a more literal one.

Are your previous beliefs still compatible knowing that evolution was true, or does your religion fall apart?

Read prior statements.

Does that suffice? [/B]

Thank you.

Thats a more respectable answer than I believe I've ever heard from a creationist. I think it's also the first time one of the "hard-liners" on totse has even actually responded to a hypothetical situation question.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Thank you.

Thats a more respectable answer than I believe I've ever heard from a creationist. I think it's also the first time one of the "hard-liners" on totse has even actually responded to a hypothetical situation question.

No problem. It was so semantical, asinsine, and hypothetical, that if the question:

"If we discovered beyond a shadow of a doubt that fyling hippos was the cause of the origin of the universe, then would you believe it?" I could have answered it in the exact same way. Answer: "Yeah, maybe."

I guess the same kind of question can be posed to anyone about God.

"If there were an overwhelmingly abundant proofs of God's existance, would you believe it?"

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:

No problem. It was so semantical, asinsine, and hypothetical, that if the question:

"If we discovered beyond a shadow of a doubt that fyling hippos was the cause of the origin of the universe, then would you believe it?" I could have answered it in the exact same way. Answer: "Yeah, maybe."

I guess the same kind of question can be posed to anyone about God.

"If there were an overwhelmingly abundant proofs of God's existance, would you believe it?"



Absolutely. In figuring out just how much I do know, I've developed a daunting sense of how much I don't know. The world is a chaotic and insane place. Proof of anything could be hiding in that mess. My current beliefs, if you can call them that, are my tentative attempt to think I've got a grip on things.

Thank you for the straightforward answer. You answered the question very well. About the flying hippos, that was not my intent- I wanted to know how dependent on creation being right your faith and beliefs were. The fact about your faith pretty much falling apart was what I really wanted to know, and have had much trouble getting anyone to admit.

Whoever was making fun of my schooling about the time machine must have somehow been born (or created by God) as an adult and completely missed childhood, therefore did not understand what I meant when I said "pretend." And you make fun of my schooling. Right.

[Edit: Grammar]

[This message has been edited by IanBoyd3 (edited 03-25-2006).]