I'm confused. God directly commands me to slaughter all nonbelievers in Deuteronomy 13:6-11. I'd like to show them mercy, as I feel murder is wrong and they are good people, but God explicitly forbids me from doing that in the same passage. What should I do?

Edit: Here's the passage:

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

[This message has been edited by jsaxton14 (edited 04-06-2006).]

No, you should not slaughter them. Slaughter would result in prison time. Instead, just do not go with them to worship other gods.

I dunno Rabbi, God seems pretty specific about not sparing them. But seriously, how often do non-Christians try to convert you? The closest I've ever encountered are the occasional Krisnans who wander the University giving me books.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

No, you should not slaughter them. Slaughter would result in prison time. Instead, just do not go with them to worship other gods.

The laws of man mean nothing to me. I adhere to a higher standard, the laws of God. Like I said, I'd really like to have mercy on them. I really would. However, the Bible explicitly states that I can't be rational. I must slaughter them:

8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

The laws of man mean nothing to me. I adhere to a higher standard, the laws of God. Like I said, I'd really like to have mercy on them. I really would. However, the Bible explicitly states that I can't be rational. I must slaughter them:

8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death

Ok then, slaughter them. Have a good time spending the rest of your life in prison.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Ok then, slaughter them. Have a good time spending the rest of your life in prison.

*nudges Rabbi*

Psst!

I think he's being a Devil's Advocate.

More like God's advocate.

Three words:

Bring it on!

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

*nudges Rabbi*

Psst!

I think he's being a Devil's Advocate.

I know that. I think the entire premise is rediculous and he's just being an idiot.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

I know that. I think the entire premise is rediculous and he's just being an idiot.

And yet, you'd choose to believe that Muslims are evil based on excerpts of the Quran similar to these.

Well, I just can't WAIT to hear DigitalSavior explain this as a metaphor http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) !!!!

quote:Originally posted by Dre Crabbe:

Well, I just can't WAIT to hear DigitalSavior explain this as a metaphor http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) !!!!

She's going to say that the Law of Christ supercedes the law of Moses, and that this is there for historical purpose, rather than being current Biblical law.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

She's going to say that the Law of Christ supercedes the law of Moses, and that this is there for historical purpose, rather than being current Biblical law.



Either way she will never under any circumstances all-things-barred admit that the bible is not 100% accurate. Which means she has a non-argument.

If you go into it with the mindset that its perfect, its fully possible to so fully decieve yourself and twist the truth in your mind that you believe it to be true.

Of course, I've always thought you lose some of yourself in the process.

normally I would say dont kill them but Im kind of stumped on this one.

quote:Originally posted by super chick:

normally I would say dont kill them but Im kind of stumped on this one.

Seek.

Professional.

Help.

yeah right, looks like christians are a danger to normal people.

the time to outlaw all religions is overdue. we should feed 'em to the lions like the romans did.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

And yet, you'd choose to believe that Muslims are evil based on excerpts of the Quran similar to these.

I never said I thought Muslims were evil. I think modern Islam is an alright way of life, keeps you out of trouble for the most part. You've chosen to assume far too much.

I do believe that Islam was born of bloodshed, though.

Christianity was born of bloodshed too. Christ shed his blood for some reason. I don't know if that counts though.

I think that quote might only apply to those who were actually brought out of Egypt.

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets:

Christianity was born of bloodshed too. Christ shed his blood for some reason. I don't know if that counts though.

You could say that. Jesus never killed anyone, though. Muhammed did, and quite often at that.

At any rate, I'm not a Christian either, so I'll defend and attack that religion as much as I do Islam.

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

I'm confused. God directly commands me to slaughter all nonbelievers in Deuteronomy 13:6-11. I'd like to show them mercy, as I feel murder is wrong and they are good people, but God explicitly forbids me from doing that in the same passage. What should I do?

God explicitly tells us NOT to commit murder. God gave that commandment specifically to Moses, who passed it along to the Jews.

Exodus 20:13 - "Do not murder."

Deuteronomy 13:6-11 - "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or your wife whom you love, or your friend who means as much to you as yourself, secretly tries to entice you to go and serve other gods, which you haven't known, neither you nor your ancestors - gods of the people surrounding you, whether near or far away from you, anywhere in the world - you are not to consent, and you are not to listen to him; and you must not pity him or spare him; and you may not conceal him.

Rather, you must kill him ! Your own hand must be the first one on him in putting him to death; because he has tried to draw you awa from Adonai, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of a life of slavery.

Then all of Isra'el will hear about it and be afraid, so that they will stop doing such wickedness as this among themselves."

1. Are you a Jew ? If not, you don't need to be concerning yourself with abiding by the Law of Moses. It wasn't written for Goyim (gentiles).

2. The Law of Moses has been fulfilled. There is no longer a need for redemption through sacrifice, kosher food laws, or the slaying of people who set you astray from your personal relationship with God. Why ? The answer is JESUS.

Jesus came to fulfill the law. The word fulfill means "to complete". The Law of Moses required constant atonement of sin, and Jesus was the ultimate atonement, the final sacrifice. This means we don't have to offer sacrifice to atone for our sins anymore...and that also means we don't have to follow the Law of Moses, aside from what Jesus required us to.

Matthew 5:17-20 - "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah (First 5 books of the Bible) or the Prophets. I come not to abolish but to complete. Yes, indeed ! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah - not until everything that must happen has happened. So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot (commands) and teaches others to do so will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness is far greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P'rushim (Pharisees), you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven !"

Here are the commandments that WE gentiles, and Messianic Jews, are supposed to follow:

Matthew 19:16-19 - A man approached Yeshua and said, "Rabbi, what good thing should I do in order to have eternal life ?" He said to him, "Why are you asking about good ? There is One who is good ! But if you want to obtain eternal life, observe the mitvot (commandments)."

The man asked, "Which ones ?" and Yeshua said, "Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't give false testimony, honor father and mother, and love your neighbor as you love yourself."

So, these are the only commandments we are required to follow. These are consistent with the fact that we no longer require atonement of our sins...Jesus' death atoned for them. These commandments help us get along well with each other. That is all he asks of us now. To be law abiding citizens, and to treat each other with kindness and love.

There is also a very big difference between murder, and killing. When Moses commanded the Jews to kill those who would take their faith away from God, it was a commandment of RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT. That's not murder.

___________________________________________



KILL (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kill)

1. To put to death

2. To deprive of life

3. To put an end to; extinguish

MURDER (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=murder)

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

___________________________________________

God is not concerned about our flesh, He is concerned about our spirit. Our souls are what He's after, and if a soul is lost to Him, what good is the flesh ? A commandment to kill during the time of Moses was not only fundamentally different than it would be today, but it was considered righteous, because it was a commandment that preserved God's sovereignty.

You know how to contact me, JSax...I don't know why you insist on posing such ridiculously ignorant questions here on totse, as if someone will actually give you a legitimate answer.

It seems to me you have an agenda here, and it's not to learn about the Bible. It can be concluded that you are only here to discredit it, by selecting scriptures that SEEM nefarious.

You cannot place God in a human container. Try and remember that when you consider the scriptures that instruct Jews to kill other people.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-08-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Here are the commandments that WE gentiles, and Messianic Jews, are supposed to follow:

Matthew 19:16-19 - A man approached Yeshua and said, "Rabbi, what good thing should I do in order to have eternal life ?" He said to him, "Why are you asking about good ? There is One who is good ! But if you want to obtain eternal life, observe the mitvot (commandments)."

The man asked, "Which ones ?" and Yeshua said, "Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't give false testimony, honor father and mother, and love your neighbor as you love yourself."

So, these are the only commandments we are required to follow. These are consistent with the fact that we no longer require atonement of our sins...Jesus' death atoned for them.

Two questions/comments:

1: I realize that Christians are under no obligation to fufill the Law of Moses. However, I haven't read anything in the Bible that specifically denounces it. This brings up an interesting question. Let's my wife invited me to a Mosque, and I proceeded to kill her. Would that be a sin?

2: I feel obligated to note that the above passage does not mention that belief in God is a requirement to enter heaven. In fact, it appears to me that in Matthew 19 Jesus is implying that we are saved by works, not faith. That's contrary to everything I've ever been taught about Christianity.

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Two questions/comments:

1: I realize that Christians are under no obligation to fufill the Law of Moses.

I don't think you meant to say "fulfill" there...

You mean abide by ?

quote:However, I haven't read anything in the Bible that specifically denounces it. This brings up an interesting question. Let's my wife invited me to a Mosque, and I proceeded to kill her. Would that be a sin?

I just gave you the scriptures that say Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. They are complete. We don't need to abide by them anymore. So yes, it would be a sin for you to take the life of your wife, as Jesus commands, "Do not murder."

Also, you're not a Jew. The commandments of Moses were for Jews.

quote:2: I feel obligated to note that the above passage does not mention that belief in God is a requirement to enter heaven. In fact, it appears to me that in Matthew 19 Jesus is implying that we are saved by works, not faith. That's contrary to everything I've ever been taught about Christianity.

That's why you have to read the whole thing. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Romans 10:4-9 - For the goal at which the Torah (5 books written by Moses, given to him by God) aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts (faith).

For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the Torah that the person who does these things will attain life through them. Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend to heaven' - that is, to bring the Messiah down - or, 'Who will descend into Sh'ol (Hell)' - that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. What then does it say ? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart." - that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered.

Translation: Belief in Jesus is a requirement of salvation.

Galatians 3:10-14 - For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the scroll of the Torah (Deuteronomy 27:26)."

Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since, "The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful (Habakkuk 2:4)."

Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but a [misuse of the text] that says, "Anyone who does these things will attain life through them."

The Messiah redeemed us from the curse pronounced in the Torah by becoming cursed on our behalf; for the Tanakh says, "Everyone who hangs from the stake comes under a curse."

Yeshua the Messiah did this so that in union with him the Gentiles might receive the blessing announced to Avraham, so that through trusting and being faithful, we might receive what was promised, namely, the spirit.

Translation: We (Jews AND Gentiles) don't need the Law of Moses. Jesus became the Law, so he IS the Law. Belief in him is all that is required for salvation.

John 14:6 - Yeshua has said, "I AM the way - and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me."

Translation: Belief in Jesus alone will gain your salvation, and thus your entrance into Heaven. It stands to reason, if you believe in Jesus, you believe in God.

This means belief in Christ's salvation is all we need. We have no need for the Law of Moses anymore.

Romans 3:15-19 - Brothers, let me make an analogy from everyday life; when someone swears an oath, no one else can set it aside or add to it. Now the promises were made to Avraham and his seed. It doesn't say, "And to seed(s)," as if to many; on the contrary, it speaks of ONE - "And to your seed" - and this "one" is the Messiah.

Here is what I am saying: the legal part of the Torah, which came into being 430 years later, does not nullify an oath sworn by God, so as to abolish the promise. For if the inheritance comes from the legal part of the Torah, it no longer comes from a promise. But God gave it to Avraham through a promise.

So then, why the legal part of the Torah ? It was added in order to create transgressions (awareness of sin against God, which leads to a necessity to atone for them), until the coming of the seed about whom the promise had been made.

Translation: The Law of Moses was God's way of making man aware of his sin, and aware of his need to cleanse himself of those sins. God is not stupid. He knows that NO MAN could ever keep the entire Law of Moses. It's impossible...which is why sacrificial offerings were necessary at that time.

When Jesus was crucified, he became the ultimate sacrifice.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

She's going to say that the Law of Christ supercedes the law of Moses, and that this is there for historical purpose, rather than being current Biblical law.

BAM!

Called it.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Jesus never killed anyone, though.

You are joking, right? Have you read the old testament?

I have.

Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

n00b.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

BAM!

Called it.

Yes, you did. Good job.

What else would I say besides the truth ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I have.

Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

n00b.

Jesus is part of God, as is the Holy Spirit. Technically he was.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I have.

Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

n00b.

Depends on what you think God's name was. If you think it was Yahweh, then Jesus was not in the Old testament. But if you call God El or Elohim, then Jesus was in the Old Testament. According to the holy trinity, which is apart of christianity, no matter the denomination, [Jesus = God = Holy Spirit] = Elohim. Denominations that say otherwise are not christian because it violates the very definition of being christian.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

Seek.

Professional.

Help.





LOL wow that really really cracked me up!

Holy crap she is frighteningly stupid and blind in her faith, but that was just hilarious. Like a sheep....Baa! I dunno but that was funny, you made my day.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I have.

Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

n00b.



Jesus = God, idiot http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

[This message has been edited by ohhi (edited 04-09-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Yes, you did. Good job.

What else would I say besides the truth ?

It just amuses me to be able to give what you would consider "correct" answers.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:



Jesus = God, idiot http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Jesus was also a human. That is the context I made my statement in.

Kidiot. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Jesus was also a human. That is the context I made my statement in.

Kidiot. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Don't humanise God. :-P

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

Depends on what you think God's name was. If you think it was Yahweh, then Jesus was not in the Old testament. But if you call God El or Elohim, then Jesus was in the Old Testament. According to the holy trinity, which is apart of christianity, no matter the denomination, [Jesus = God = Holy Spirit] = Elohim. Denominations that say otherwise are not christian because it violates the very definition of being christian.

Jesus the entity has always existed. The trinity was clearly established in the Old Testament.

I am referring to Jesus the human.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Don't humanise God. :-P

Hardy har har har. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Jesus was also a human. That is the context I made my statement in.

Kidiot. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)



Retard. Jesus = God. Assuming that that statement is correct, then he was the same god who did all the killing. Hense my statement above. FUCK!

So some of the bible isn't applicable to our every day life. What a shitty cop out.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:



Retard. Jesus = God. Assuming that that statement is correct, then he was the same god who did all the killing. Hense my statement above. FUCK!



Alot of people seem to be angry and dejected, but you are exceptionally angry. What's going on Ohhi? You want to talk about it?

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:



Alot of people seem to be angry and dejected, but you are exceptionally angry. What's going on Ohhi? You want to talk about it?



What's that? You say you want to me to convert you right now? You say that you want to be baptized? Oh you didn't say any of that? Ok.

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:



What's that? You say you want to me to convert you right now? You say that you want to be baptized? Oh you didn't say any of that? Ok.



Actually, no, I've never said that to you or to anyone on Totse. But yes, I would like to see you come to Christ. I'm not sure what that has to do with my post though.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:



Alot of people seem to be angry and dejected, but you are exceptionally angry. What's going on Ohhi? You want to talk about it?

Talk about what? I'm not angry. I'm just amazed by some people.

quote:Originally posted by hyroglyphx:



Alot of people seem to be angry and dejected, but you are exceptionally angry. What's going on Ohhi? You want to talk about it?

I think Ohhi just has something in his butt. A little bit of festering Jesus, for example.

Nah, nothing in there.

Denial is the first sign of a problem.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Denial is the first sign of a problem.

Unless there's nothing actually there.

Like if I were to accuse you of having a crack problem. You'd deny it. Then I'd say...

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Unless there's nothing actually there.

Like if I were to accuse you of having a crack problem. You'd deny it. Then I'd say...

Except she probably does - or did - have a crack problem. Unless she's an opiate lover, like me.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Unless there's nothing actually there.

Like if I were to accuse you of having a crack problem. You'd deny it. Then I'd say...

Haha...touche'.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Except she probably does - or did - have a crack problem. Unless she's an opiate lover, like me.

Nope. Meth was my demon. Not that that's better than crack...either way, it was terrible.

Crack is fun.

Don't worry, Digi, there's hope for you yet. Just get back in touch with your inner demons, and release that painful exterior of Christianity that you insist on clinging to (admit it, it's boring as hell, sacrifice, prayer, and all that) and you'll make a good wife for me yet. Although, how old are you?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Denial is the first sign of a problem.

Denial of something being stuck up my ass?

...

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

Crack is fun.

Don't worry, Digi, there's hope for you yet. Just get back in touch with your inner demons, and release that painful exterior of Christianity that you insist on clinging to (admit it, it's boring as hell, sacrifice, prayer, and all that) and you'll make a good wife for me yet. Although, how old are you?

Apparently 27.

P.S. I can't see her being hot. Or good looking for that matter.

[This message has been edited by ohhi (edited 04-11-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

No, you should not slaughter them. Slaughter would result in prison time. Instead, just do not go with them to worship other gods.

Shut the hell up!!!!jsaxton14 you should definatly do it, your beliefs are your beliefs. Remember the rules of man do not apply to you, you are a servant of god, they deserve to be punished, do it, DO IT, DO IT!!!!!! HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

bring it...

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

Denominations that say otherwise are not christian because it violates the very definition of being christian.

No. The only requirement to be Christian is to hold faith in Christ as the savior of man. Even in Catholicism, believe it or not. Pope John Paul II issued a decree that said, essentially, that all Christian denominations will enter Heaven. In fact, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox alike, will all go to Heaven should Christianity's theology prove correct.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>All men sin.

<LI>Worshipping plural Gods is sin.

<LI>Not performing good works is (to some) a sin.

<LI>Salvation is by faith alone.

</UL>

Ultimately, the intrafaith battles ammount to nothing because, on a theological level, no one is getting to Heaven any faster.

And, if anyone is going to say something like, "Catholics/Protestants/Orthodox Christians say they love Jesus, but they do items A/B/C/D/E/etc., so they really don't love Jesus," try and listen to what you are saying.

And this is from an atheist, too, which is sad. You guys should have sorted this out a long time ago amongst yourselves, but no, politics is far too great. "You can't love God unless you love Him like me." It's all the same from all sides. God would be very disappointed that His children were bickering like this when they're all turning their eyes towards him at night.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

Apparently 27.

P.S. I can't see her being hot. Or good looking for that matter.

As if it really matters. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

Crack is fun.

Don't worry, Digi, there's hope for you yet. Just get back in touch with your inner demons, and release that painful exterior of Christianity that you insist on clinging to (admit it, it's boring as hell, sacrifice, prayer, and all that) and you'll make a good wife for me yet. Although, how old are you?

Old enough to be your mother. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

On a serious note, I have never found peace and contentment outside of God. Living the life of a Christian is only boring if you allow it to be.

I am involved with my Christianity. That means I don't just go to Church every Sunday. There are outreach programs, missionary trips, etc.

I am currently working my way through college to get my certification in American Sign Language (I am already fluent, I just need the certs for everyone else to believe me...heh). Once I have them, I intend to immerse myself in the Deaf Community here in Portland. I have been motivated by the Holy Spirit to open a residential rehab center for Deaf individuals with children. There aren't any, in the entire country, that I know of.

I could not do this on my own. As a human, I have all the character flaws that would prevent me from doing something this big and selfless. I gave up my career for this, and while some would be terrified of the ramifications, I am in total peace.

That's God. Living in accordance to His will is a beautiful thing. Living for others really is where the joy is in this life. He was right all along.

In the meantime, He is taking care of me. I should be broke, and my children should be starving...but things keep happening that help us stay afloat. I haven't even had to try and find ways to survive.

It is simply amazing to live like this. There is nothing "painful" about it.

&lt;b&gt;I could not do this on my own. As a human, I have all the character flaws that would prevent me from doing something this big and selfless. I gave up my career for this, and while some would be terrified of the ramifications, I am in total peace.

That's God. Living in accordance to His will is a beautiful thing. Living for others really is where the joy is in this life. He was right all along.

In the meantime, He is taking care of me. I should be broke, and my children should be starving...but things keep happening that help us stay afloat. I haven'st even had to try and find ways to survive.&lt;/b&gt;

Ha ha ha.... that is the most pathetic, self righteous bullshit i have ever heard. You are really blind, just wait till your end of days, you'll finally see that your years of sad devotion to some false saviour are in vain.

Shakes His Head.....Tut Tut Tut

Digital, you told me all the homeless are lazy bums. Where's the compassion there?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Old enough to be your mother. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

On a serious note, I have never found peace and contentment outside of God. Living the life of a Christian is only boring if you allow it to be.

I am involved with my Christianity. That means I don't just go to Church every Sunday. There are outreach programs, missionary trips, etc.

I am currently working my way through college to get my certification in American Sign Language (I am already fluent, I just need the certs for everyone else to believe me...heh). Once I have them, I intend to immerse myself in the Deaf Community here in Portland. I have been motivated by the Holy Spirit to open a residential rehab center for Deaf individuals with children. There aren't any, in the entire country, that I know of.

I could not do this on my own. As a human, I have all the character flaws that would prevent me from doing something this big and selfless. I gave up my career for this, and while some would be terrified of the ramifications, I am in total peace.

That's God. Living in accordance to His will is a beautiful thing. Living for others really is where the joy is in this life. He was right all along.

In the meantime, He is taking care of me. I should be broke, and my children should be starving...but things keep happening that help us stay afloat. I haven't even had to try and find ways to survive.

It is simply amazing to live like this. There is nothing "painful" about it.



I thought you were going to be a missionary for the rest of your life and give up all creature comforts and the United States.

Man is made in the image of God - God likes owning people who disagree with him, YOU SHOULD TO!

--------------------------------------------

Just because Christianity gives you a direction in life, makes you feel satisfied with "reality" and gives you a sense of value burpose blah blah blah does not make it the supreme Truth of the universe to which everyone must conform to avoid damnation in hell.

Is that not painfully obvious????

And yes, if the trinity is God, then jesus is GOd, and if the bible is right then God in the old testament liked to pwn people who disagreed with him, making him guilty of killing people. Oh, and it also makes God sound like a character in a FICTIONAL BOOK, which clearly he isn't being outside of space and time and petty human bullshit.

So why on earth would God decide to make up stupid rules from nothing, and then proceed to enforce them breaking all his own rules in the process...

Man is made in the IMAGE OF GOD (apparently) and if God is all loving, he should be upholding his theory of unconditional love, not being a power crazed dictator. Although God being an asshole makes life "fair" (the bad get punished, the good get head in heaven....) it still doesn't even stick with the core teaching of Christianity which is supposed to be LOVE!!

The way christians are just as much assholes as everyone else (albeit christians with a "get out of jail free" card) just shows to me what a load of fucking shit your "reality" is, and not one which is worth lowering myself to.

Then again, it is clear Christianity is good for millions of people around the world on a personal basis, and it's made the world the place it is today...but divine truth that we must all submit to - FUCK THAT.

kill who ever you want man! beleiver or non-beleiver KILL UM ALL!!!!

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Old enough to be your mother. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

On a serious note, I have never found peace and contentment outside of God. Living the life of a Christian is only boring if you allow it to be.

I am involved with my Christianity. That means I don't just go to Church every Sunday. There are outreach programs, missionary trips, etc.

I am currently working my way through college to get my certification in American Sign Language (I am already fluent, I just need the certs for everyone else to believe me...heh). Once I have them, I intend to immerse myself in the Deaf Community here in Portland. I have been motivated by the Holy Spirit to open a residential rehab center for Deaf individuals with children. There aren't any, in the entire country, that I know of.

I could not do this on my own. As a human, I have all the character flaws that would prevent me from doing something this big and selfless. I gave up my career for this, and while some would be terrified of the ramifications, I am in total peace.

That's God. Living in accordance to His will is a beautiful thing. Living for others really is where the joy is in this life. He was right all along.

In the meantime, He is taking care of me. I should be broke, and my children should be starving...but things keep happening that help us stay afloat. I haven't even had to try and find ways to survive.

It is simply amazing to live like this. There is nothing "painful" about it.



You didn't find peace and contentment out of God. Meaning you need to worship this divine being to feel peaceful and comforted with heaven and self righteous and so on.

If you are spiritually weak enough to need that, I will not stop you. Seriously though, stop forcing your religion on other people. I also don't see why you can't believe in God without being christian and believing their shit too.

I don't believe in God, and I am way more peaceful now. Everything is beatiful. I feel better now because the church is no longer feeding me with wrong moral teachings. I feel liberated of a misleading religion. I am now free to be accepting of everyone, loving, tolerant, giving, and just to admire everything more now for the way it is, and not constantly start worshipping or feeling guilty for my sins and such.

I am dedicating my life to good in a much more extreme way then you are, as it turns out, so it further validates my point.

My plan is to go through rotc, then join the special forces, get the training, and then quit. After that I will go out on my own to various countries and use my training, as well as a lot of stealth instincts and skills that I am even developing now, to take down some of the warlord terrorists that keep the population in poverty. Since I won't belong to a country, politics will not get in the way and I will be free to destroy all the munitions, stealth kill all the henchmen, assasinate all the warlords, sabotage things, and cause havoc as I please, while under cover and not sanctioned by anyone. I may die, but hell, I'm willing to die in order to make it better for the less fortunate. I'm not doing it for heaven either. I'm just doing it for them. For all those people born with less than me. I've enjoyed life in luxury.

I am very compassionate, sympathetic, and empathetic to the point of death for others. It makes the sacrifice all the more valuable, loving and moral.

This is an obscure reference I can make back to when I liked lotr and was actually still catholic.

I said that Legolas was risking the most by fighting because he could have eternal life, and go to this island and live forever with his people in peace, but instead he risked everything for no other reason then that is was right. The others risked their lives as well, but they were going to die anyway and had less to lose. I respected Legolas the most for doing the right thing, even when he had everything to lose.

I have much more to lose, and nothing to gain other then sleep at night from my decision. You, on the other hand, have everything to gain and nothing to lose, because you believe in eternal salvation and in God.

That's the difference between me and you. You, on your own, messed up your life (this is all based off what you said, and I definetely sympathise with you though and I'm sure much of it was out of control) and then found 'God' and eternal paradise and it convinced you to be good.

I initially was good, I believed in God, then I stopped, and still was good.

You need God to be good. I don't.

That's fine though. Whatever floats your boat.

But take a look at it through that perspective, and maybe stop insulting us, being condenscending, asserting that you're right, claiming we're stupid or immature for not getting it, and in general forcing your religion on people.

It would be greatly appreciated.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

As if it really matters. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I only talk to hot girls.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:



.

Seriously though, stop forcing your religion on other people.

I

I don't think that she really forces her religion on anyone... And to be honest I think that is the problem.

I haven't had any christian talk to me as an aequal yet ,try not to 'turn' me to god but to Help me Find god.

I've reead the bible ,and admittedly I started feeling that maybe there was somwthing in the new testament ,and then what happens people start getting killed. Peter kills two farmers who won't give him all their money (Before someone says it doesn't explicitly say that peter killed them, Kiss my balls ,It was either peter or God.)

Then even the end of the new testament becomes beyond fucked up. Blood coming up to horses bridles ,winepresses filled with blood. 7 seals ,seven trumpets , death and destruction for unbelievers .... It sickened me ,It's like some kind of mad trip recorded. It seems full of sanguine blood lust.

I know one of you will also have the clever Idea of telling me I just feel dissapointed and thats why I don't believe in god....

It's not that I don't believe in God. I just don't care if he's real or not ...

And if he is the god from the bible I will quite happily fight the fight at the End against such a tyrant.

quote:originally posted by ohhi quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Denial is the first sign of a problem.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Denial of something being stuck up my ass?

...





That was fucking amazing ,thanks ... You've made my afternoon....

Edit: Yes... I AM an Idiot... stupid goddamn language!



[This message has been edited by JesuitArtiste (edited 04-18-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

The laws of man mean nothing to me. I adhere to a higher standard, the laws of God. Like I said, I'd really like to have mercy on them. I really would. However, the Bible explicitly states that I can't be rational. I must slaughter them:

I feel sorry for you, this is sad and pathetic and just demonstrates that religion cannot be good for mankind. It makes people ignorant. Oh and by the way, you want slaughter any body.

JSaxton14, it also says in Genesis "If your right eye should make you stumble, tear it out and throw it into the fire, for it is better for your one eye to burn than your whole body in the fiery depths of hell."

It's a metaphore. He doesn't really want you to tear out your eye.

quote:Originally posted by diehard993:

JSaxton14, it also says in Genesis "If your right eye should make you stumble, tear it out and throw it into the fire, for it is better for your one eye to burn than your whole body in the fiery depths of hell."

It's a metaphore. He doesn't really want you to tear out your eye.

Are you suggesting this is a metaphor? If so, justify your reasoning.

quote:Originally posted by ohhi:

I only talk to hot girls.

Well, this "hot" girl wouldn't care if you wanted to talk to her, or not. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-20-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

Digital, you told me all the homeless are lazy bums. Where's the compassion there?

No, I didn't.

Only an idiot would claim that ALL bums are lazy. Most are, but not ALL.

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:



I thought you were going to be a missionary for the rest of your life and give up all creature comforts and the United States.

I am. This is not a contradiction...I have a long life ahead of me, God willing.

I am finishing something I started. The Deaf need a residential rehab center, so I am working towards that. I should be able to realize this goal within 5 years. If not, I will keep working at it.

Interpreting doesn't have to be a full time job. I am unclear on whether I will go to the mission, come back, and so on, or not...it remains to be seen. It just all depends.

God will be my guide.

quote:Originally posted by TheNihilisticRampage:

Ha ha ha.... that is the most pathetic, self righteous bullshit i have ever heard. You are really blind, just wait till your end of days, you'll finally see that your years of sad devotion to some false saviour are in vain.

Shakes His Head.....Tut Tut Tut



Apparently you don't know what "self righteous" means...tut tut tut.

Also...

Matthew 5:10-12 - Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)



[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-20-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, this "hot" girl wouldn't care if you wanted to talk to her, or not. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)



That's out of question, since you are not hot.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Apparently you don't know what "self righteous" means...tut tut tut.

Also...

Matthew 5:10-12 - Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)



Apparently you don't know much either. Since you have to keep quoting the same book over and over again.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Apparently you don't know what "self righteous" means...tut tut tut.

Also...

Matthew 5:10-12 - Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

Dont preach that bullshit to me. The fact of the matter is if you have any relatives that have passed away, they are just rotting corpses buried six feet under, and nothing more. So you can cling on to that book for false hope and for forgivness but it will not save you in the end. so just spare us from your stupdity and kill yourself and you'll see that there is no god.

and by the way:

self-right·eous (sĕlf'rī'chəs)

adj.

Piously sure of one's own righteousness; moralistic.

Exhibiting pious self-assurance: self-righteous remarks.