Why do you christians believe what the Bible says?

Simple question.

I mean...its a book.

What proof do you have that it came from the mouth of God?

A few men claimed to have heard voices in their head and that voice said it was God.

This goes on today. Its called channeling, either that or insanity.

I channel, Spirits have told me things to write, I have heard their voices.

Now if these men heard a voice that said it was God, does that mean its God?

Could it have been...I dont know, ummm...Lying?

I mean goddamn I dont understand you all.

You make me sick, how in the world could you actualy believe what you believe?

I mean the more I set here and think about it, the more my blood starts to boil.

I swear to you, if murder was legal, I would take pleasure in beating your fucking skulls in. You believe in hell? Jesus fucking christ.

I want to gnaw the flesh of your god and burn your trashy fucking bible.

All you are is lies and misinterpretations.

Ive read your little book and it has shown me nothing, nothing but limitations and order.

Fuck you.

How the fuck can you believe that bible?

How?

Hurry up little sheep.

Im anxious to hear one of you little insignificant, ignorant fucks respond.

Limitations and Order? isn't that what's stopping you from believing in it?

quote:Originally posted by Lucky7:

Limitations and Order? isn't that what's stopping you from believing in it?

No. Sanity is.

I believe it because I see the evidence of its truth all around me daily.

quote:Originally posted by Dragonsthrone:

I believe it because I see the evidence of its truth all around me daily.

Oh really? Where do you see this truth? Don't say nature, because every person with a religion says that. It's so cliche.

Most religious people I've met pick and choose which parts of the bible came from God, and which is just allegory. No use arguing with them, as they seem to be above logical reasoning.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ophidian Sumerian Dildo:

[B]Why do you christians believe what the Bible says?

Simple question.

I mean...its a book.

What proof do you have that it came from the mouth of God?

A few men claimed to have heard voices in their head and that voice said it was God.

This goes on today. Its called channeling, either that or insanity.

I channel, Spirits have told me things to write, I have heard their voices.

Now if these men heard a voice that said it was God, does that mean its God?

Could it have been...I dont know, ummm...Lying?

I mean goddamn I dont understand you all.

You make me sick, how in the world could you

Well I suppose people believe in the bible like you believe you parents when they tell you about santa clause. Yes the book is a story. Many of these people have been brainwashed to believe, many of the believers probably have their doubts, but it is the fear of god and hell that keeps their faith. What once has been continuously taught about something, it is not easily forgotten. Kinda like math, or learning to drive a car. These people remember their faith and remember what happens when they don't.

quote:Originally posted by Ophidian Sumerian Dildo:

I mean the more I set here and think about it, the more my blood starts to boil.

I swear to you, if murder was legal, I would take pleasure in beating your fucking skulls in. You believe in hell? Jesus fucking christ.

I want to gnaw the flesh of your god and burn your trashy fucking bible.

All you are is lies and misinterpretations.

Ive read your little book and it has shown me nothing, nothing but limitations and order.

Fuck you.

How the fuck can you believe that bible?

How?

A time for a poem?

Gentle times of weeping hands bring to me a passion for love of my brothers and sisters. If in ever my love should wane may my life be lifted in sorrow. Humble beginings bring earnest ears to a promise of escape. TO what do we deserve a martyr to lift us from our pit?

Is it a curse to love or even look into the blackness of a searching lost soul? I tell you that peace will come to you in surrender. Sweet air of freedom thrills the nostrils of the one lead out of prison. May it be all who see now that God may touch your soul and lift you to understand that Love is beyond the reach of a violent man.

In this reading know it that God is with you - and has prepared for you a feast of salvation to purge death from your bones and lead you to a river of life. Never again will we thirst for answers or reason. To my brothers and sisters - love, peace and joy to you who follow the merciful God who gives us life.

Free yourself from the bondage of hate, confusion and misdirection. Written words are meaningless in the hands of a blind man. So it is the spirit we are talking about and the bible only shows us the way to it. The bible is like a compass and a map, among other things, follow it and you will also begin to see the battles that wage in our hearts and minds day in and day out.

Nobody has ever said the path to salvation is to believe in the bible - it will grant you no sanctuary as they are only words. Believe in the true living God. Who by His grace gives us freedom, wisdom and knowledge.

I believe the words of the bible to be true because I am a witness to the works of the spirit promised in the word.



Peace~

Science nerds, aethists, agnostics, nihilists and other varied non-believers -

Why not open your mind to the possibility of a God, or is that against the prison of logical reasoning?

Does everything have to have evidence? Do you believe that Osama Bin Laden exists? have you any evidence? Do you believe in evolution? Have you ever seen any evidence for it, personally?

My God can beat the shit out of your God because you don't have one, therefor mine will always win. Is that logical? :P

I’d rather not believe in a God, thank you, especially not the sort the majority of religious people worship. I’m an atheist and an absurdist, I feel that absurdism has highly liberated me. I’m content with no God.

The reason I complain about religion though, is because I see how much damage it causes and it upsets me. I think it would be morally wrong of me to not point these atrocities out.

Got any better ideas? i wana hear em.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

I’d rather not believe in a God, thank you, especially not the sort the majority of religious people worship. I’m an atheist and an absurdist, I feel that absurdism has highly liberated me. I’m content with no God.

The reason I complain about religion though, is because I see how much damage it causes and it upsets me. I think it would be morally wrong of me to not point these atrocities out.

I'll never say that people haven't done bad things in the name of their religion. That would be a tough arguement. However, are you saying that those atrocities commited outside of religion are better? Or do you want us to pretend only religion breeds atrocity.

You certainly have a warped sense of reality if so. Just be fair and honest. I know there are much worse things then a 90 year old lady believing that her soul is destined for a heavenly paradise.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-09-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Lucky7:

Science nerds, aethists, agnostics, nihilists and other varied non-believers -

Why not open your mind to the possibility of a God, or is that against the prison of logical reasoning?

Does everything have to have evidence? Do you believe that Osama Bin Laden exists? have you any evidence? Do you believe in evolution? Have you ever seen any evidence for it, personally?

My God can beat the shit out of your God because you don't have one, therefor mine will always win. Is that logical? :P

Note to fucking retard, it's spelt atheist, learn to spell.

Now agnostics open their mind to the possibility of god by very definition, atheists can not believe in god for a number of reasons, the primary ones being insufficient evidence and the problem of reconciling an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god with the existence of suffering.

The fact that you view logic and reason as a "prison" only highlights the idiocy of some fundamentalists.

May your seed be wiped from the earth.

Hi, I'll wipe my own seed thank you very much but from my bed-sheets not the earth http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence.

That's a definition. If they were open-minded (as you suggest) it would read:

An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can either be proved or disproved, on the basis of current "evidence".

Whether evidence is real is a belief in itself I urge you not to forget that. Finally, I resent you calling me a fundamentalist, I'm not christian, I don't belong to any organised religion, in my personal view they are just as bad as firm non-believers for the simple fact that they are firm believers.

Thank you for calling me a fucking retard. It's about the highest social level I'm ever going to reach anyway.

[This message has been edited by Lucky7 (edited 04-09-2006).]

Im sorry you must not understand,

I DO believe in God.

I DO NOT believe in a Christian God.

quote:Originally posted by Ophidian Sumerian Dildo:

Im sorry you must not understand,

I DO believe in God.

I DO NOT believe in a Christian God.

You should have made that clear from the top. Respect brother.

quote:Originally posted by Lucky7:

Science nerds, aethists, agnostics, nihilists and other varied non-believers -

Why not open your mind to the possibility of a God, or is that against the prison of logical reasoning?

Does everything have to have evidence? Do you believe that Osama Bin Laden exists? have you any evidence? Do you believe in evolution? Have you ever seen any evidence for it, personally?

My God can beat the shit out of your God because you don't have one, therefor mine will always win. Is that logical? :P



i used to be a christian, untill a couple months ago. i realized how foolish i was to be part of the brainwashed. there is evidence for both evolution and the existance of osama bin laden. what kind of dumbass are you?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I'll never say that people haven't done bad things in the name of their religion. That would be a tough arguement. However, are you saying that those atrocities commited outside of religion are better? Or do you want us to pretend only religion breeds atrocity.

You certainly have a warped sense of reality if so. Just be fair and honest. I know there are much worse things then a 90 year old lady believing that her soul is destined for a heavenly paradise.





You got me all wrong. I don’t proclaim that religion is the cause of all problems, but this is a religion forum so I only talk about the problems religion causes.

Yes, the ninety year old ladies are harmless. I’m talking about the madmen that kill pagans, that proclaim God said it was ok to go to war in Iraq, that drive plains into buildings, that abuse children to ‘free them of the demons that have possessed them”, that use their religion as an excuse to hate gay people, to bring division and war, ignorance, hate against science, etc.



[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-10-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

You got me all wrong. I don’t proclaim that religion is the cause of all problems, but this is a religion forum so I only talk about the problems religion causes.

Yes, the ninety year old ladies are harmless. I’m talking about the madmen that kill pagans, that proclaim God said it was ok to go to war in Iraq, that drive plains into buildings, that abuse children to ‘free them of the demons that have possessed them”, that use their religion as an excuse to hate gay people, to bring division and war, ignorance, hate against science, etc.





This may suprise you but I agree with you on all accounts.

Some doctrines in religion can and usually do cause harm. However, we would have to take a deeper look into each subject to study and see if those who do these things are truely doing it in the name of God or are they pushing some off the mark, perverted theology for a selfish cause?

A tree is known by it's fruit is the teaching that Jesus gave us. It means a person is known by their thoughts and deeds. Whereas fruit is the outcome of the action. The heart churns out much love or hate and it is in ones words, their eyes, their deeds and so on which tells you if they carry love or not.

Don't get confused. Even the devil is allowed to quote scripture for his own gain. Or in other words "pose as an angel of light". This is where we are easily decieved. A man who follows God in earnest is easily seen as a meek man who will not cause harm his neighbor. This is a person who follows the commandments not that man who flies airplanes into buildings because of a theocratic ideology.

But… a lot of that stuff is encouraged in the religious text. I’ve read them myself.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

But… a lot of that stuff is encouraged in the religious text. I’ve read them myself.

I never like to question someone in their views. It's not wise. However, I must say that perceptions are greatly effected by experience. Meaning, the way things are seen today will most likely change in 10 years and yet again in 20.

I can not say what you see is right or wrong. Because you see what you see. What I can say is understanding these things takes a great deal of time and devotion.

Be a student in life and never stop seeking. Because once we stop and think we know it all, pride takes over and puts a veil of ignorance over our minds.

I will never claim I have full understanding of the deeper subjects in life but I will say I have a lot of experience. When I see things in the bible as they are and hold it up to the template of life, there is a profound truth that continues to live out.

War, hate, religion, philosophy, theology, dogma, etc. etc. all these things have been since the dawn of man. If we think we will understand it all in 15 - 20 - 30 or even 50 years of life then we are decieved.

I hope you understand my point. Don't be in a rush to judge when we don't know what is happening 17 miles up the river.

Joshua 3:14-17

[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-11-2006).]

But that might not be how they are. That’s just how YOU think they are. YOU think it’s profound and beautiful. I think it’s nasty and demeaning to humanity.

There is no way of telling who is right. I’m an atheist because I believe all religions are manmade and I choose not to worship a God I see as evil because if I continued to worship it that would be immoral. You worship the God I see as evil because YOU see it as good.

You accuse me of interpreting it wrongly and I accuse you of interpreting it wrongly. It’s incredibly hard to look at the Bible ‘objectively’

This is all very silly.

I give up on arguing religion. I don't believe in it and there's really no point.

I'm just gonna enjoy being an absurdist.

[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-11-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

But that might not be how they are. That’s just how YOU think they are. YOU think it’s profound and beautiful. I think it’s nasty and demeaning to humanity.

There is no way of telling who is right. I’m an atheist because I believe all religions are manmade and I choose not to worship a God I see as evil because if I continued to worship it that would be immoral. You worship the God I see as evil because YOU see it as good.

You accuse me of interpreting it wrongly and I accuse you of interpreting it wrongly. It’s incredibly hard to look at the Bible ‘objectively’

This is all very silly.

I give up on arguing religion. I don't believe in it and there's really no point.

I'm just gonna enjoy being an absurdist.



Every light casts a shadow my friend. So it is in the spiritual.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Every light casts a shadow my friend. So it is in the spiritual.

I laughed when I read that. Seriously, I got no time for this bullshit anymore.

I think Jim Morrison put it nicely:

"no eternal reward will forgive us for wasting the dawn"

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

I laughed when I read that. Seriously, I got no time for this bullshit anymore.

I think Jim Morrison put it nicely:

"no eternal reward will forgive us for wasting the dawn"

Somehow I don't believe you are telling the truth. In fact, I believe since you are here at all in this topic shows you are searching for something.

What do you think I meant by that statement?

I’m constantly searching, because I never stop asking questions.

I’ve just realised religion is bullshit and can’t answer them.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

I’m constantly searching, because I never stop asking questions.

I’ve just realised religion is bullshit and can’t answer them.

So I am right..you do have time for this after all.

I agree..religion is a set of man-made rules in most definitions of the word. They all lead to nowhere but the capture of one's free will. Anybody can follow a set of rules and do their best to pretend to be all good and upright on the outside. That is for certain not what it is about though.

The true religion is what is happening on the inside and how and why that is. The thoughts that lead to the outpouring of our deeds. What drives us and motivates us? Getting in touch with that part of us is mostly what it is about.

I hope you see the difference.

You're talking about Gnosticism.

I’m an atheist and don’t believe in God, but I do use Gnosticism to help myself understand myself better. But as I said, I do not have time for religion. Plus, I'm mainly only on here cause I have nothing to do and want someone to talk to.

I think Sartre, Nietzsche, Camus, and Taoism(the philosophy) are closer to the truth than religion.



[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-11-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

You're talking about Gnosticism.

I’m an atheist and don’t believe in God, but I do use Gnosticism to help myself understand myself better. But as I said, I do not have time for religion. Plus, I'm mainly only on here cause I have nothing to do and want someone to talk to.

I think Sartre, Nietzsche, Camus, and Taoism(the philosophy) are closer to the truth than religion.





I appreciate what you have said as it is true. In the sense of temporal things that is. It seems those things that help us understand and live life here in "the world" are easily touted as truth. However, the places I'm speaking of is the spiritual which is even beyond feelings and perceptions.

Some people think religion or spirituality is some meditated induced trance of some kind or a subconscience level of the mind. However, I hope you see, that is still in the realms of the temporal.

Does this make sense? It is not an easy thing to describe in words. The bottom line is the bible and the docrtrines of God are not designed to prepare us for life in this world as this world is only a testing ground for our souls.

The bible is preparing us for spiritual life in Heaven and not life in the secular. I don't say this with expectation you will agree at all. I'm just trying to set things straight.

To compare the philosophies of the world ot the doctrines of God is not a comparison at all. I do not deny the wisdom and the character growth gained from the knowledge of those philosophies but the issue shouldn't be what philosophies we follow. What should be the focus is why are all the philosophies a description of the human drama but often fail to show a way out from or divert one away from a ship wrecked life?





[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-11-2006).]

quote:beyond feelings and perceptions.

Feelings and perception are all humans have to see the world.

How do you know God is real? From a book written by men. How do you know that’s the right book? Well, you just have faith, don’t you.

This is ridiculous. All religions are manmade, if there Is a God, we have no idea what it is like. We should just get on with enjoying life in THIS world as it is the only one we could have. And we should try and be good people in THIS world, but not because some so called god from an ancient text written by man says so.

quote:Originally posted by Dragonsthrone:

I believe it because I see the evidence of its truth all around me daily.

I guess you never look at Evolution sites. And you didn't answer the question- you never see anything from the bible. If that was true, you'd see God killing vast amounts of people, likely including me and most intelligent people on this site. The world would suck ass and the streets would run red with blood because your God is a brutal, violent asshole. It's in the bible.

All you see is you look around and think you feel God. The truth is, everyone feels that. You call it God, we don't. It gives your bible no more credibility.

I don't deny that there could well be a God, but the christian God is a bastard, and the bible is full of moral atrocities. It can't be perfect either because it contradicts itself.

If it was perfect, it would have a better chance, but your God commits moral atrocities, your book is contradicted by science, and contradicted by itself. Why the hell do you believe in it? All I ever hear is the same disproven phrase stated over and over again- "God's word is infallible."

Actually...I believe that.

Which is why the bible isn't God's word.

um... i personally don't believe what the bible says. that doesnt exactly make me want to go postal on those who do. calm the fuck down, and try to accept that people are going to think differently.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Feelings and perception are all humans have to see the world.

How do you know God is real? From a book written by men. How do you know that’s the right book? Well, you just have faith, don’t you.

This is ridiculous. All religions are manmade, if there Is a God, we have no idea what it is like. We should just get on with enjoying life in THIS world as it is the only one we could have. And we should try and be good people in THIS world, but not because some so called god from an ancient text written by man says so.

I've already said I agreed with you about religion...I'm trying to tell you that I'm not talking about a "religion" but a relationship. If you read again what I said, also agree with you about feelings and perceptions is all we have in this world. Again, I'm not talking about this world, this body or this universe. There is more for the human existence then just living to die. There is more to the human drama then history and ideas. All I'm saying is there is a place of hope that goes well beyond the borders of time and place.



I know God exists because of personal reasons you can't understand right now. I can tell you about the transformation in my life because of very significant events. I can tell you all about how much of a wasted life I lead until I came to faith but, you can't hear me.

So I agree, this is "ridiculous" as you stated. But, this could be the most important thing you will ever read in your lifetime.

All things in this world have a day when they will die. You and I both know that is a day we all face in this world. Because, I know God exists - all of his promises are taken by faith because so far, everything He has told us through men (whom He chose to send His message into the world) have come true thus far.

I would like to convince you to consider it more but today is not your day.

[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-12-2006).]

Ophidian Sumerian Dildo, people will never take your arguments seriously and actually give them thought if you say that you want to kill them. But yeah, I'm not particularly religious either.