If you can say that you truly believe in your religion, here is a test of your faith:

Give up your religion.

Then with an open and willing mind, seriously convert to a different religion.

Stay with this religion for a long time. How long? I couldn't tell you. Long enough to know the religeon.

When this has happened, convert to another and stay until yet again you have an understaning of the religeon.

Do this maybe a third time... or fourth time... or again and again and again till you end up back at the religion you had departed in the first place and be able to say with utter conviction that that religion is the one, the only, the true religion.

Because after all...

If you do an absolute belief in the truth of your religion, experiencing a different faith with a pure heart, open mind, and a strong will should not shake you from the true faith.

nice chaos trick...

But, this is impossible for religious people. They are too afraid of realizing the truth.

I think you're an idiot.

You're trying to argue that one can only assess the validity of a religion by practicing it. You've just pwned yourself.

quote:Originally posted by Megalodon:

But, this is impossible for religious people. They are too afraid of realizing the truth.

But what if you got killed while you were a practicing [whatever]? You'd go to Hell, or be guilty of not believing in your so-called True religion. I don't think people with ultimate faith would ever convert to another religion, especially WILLINGLY. Would it be even truly willingly? With an open mind?

You can't believe if you don't believe.

[HomoBlaxican]

aw c'mon... i'm sure god would know what you were doing and reward you if you happen to die while testing your faith... isn't it impossible to do anything behind god's back? and wouldn't the very attempt to do this be considered divine inspiration?

alas, all we've seen here is that when faced with the option of being challenged and pushed out of their comfort zone, people only hide further behind their beliefs...

Who's hiding behind beliefs? I, sir, am a proud atheist. I just happen to READ.

What do you mean reward you?! You turned your back on him and started to worship another, false, idol before him. Your giving your entire heart to another religion, and you expect God to say it's okay? You're not serving Him when you die, so you go to Hell, easy as that.

Giving up your religion and turning to another is a slap in the face your God. Like I said, you can't believe if you don't believe.

[HomoBlaxican]

I wasn't singling you out regarding hiding behind beliefs... everyone seemed to back off and say "woaaah, wait a minute there buddy, my beliefs are set in stone, i can't possibly change them!" which is perfectly understandable - everyone does it in varying degrees and it's not limited to spiritual/religious beliefs.

As for the reward - to me it seems this is, as the name thread appropriately suggests, the ultimate test of faith - to try to prove your unshakable dedication to god... if you stray and fail, then sure, god can poo in your mouth, but if you can't finish - well, that's debatable, but the point remains - making the attempt is noble and holy and if I were the god in question, I'd give you a little treat and patt you on the head...

The more you learn, the harder it is to CHOOSE what you believe. Wrap your minds around that...

[This message has been edited by smallpox champion (edited 04-13-2006).]

your not supposed to test god. I believe in jesus I dont believe in all the other religions.

You're not testing God. You're testing your 'faith'.

quote:Originally posted by Noperiden:

If you can say that you truly believe in your religion, here is a test of your faith:

Give up your religion.

Then with an open and willing mind, seriously convert to a different religion.

Stay with this religion for a long time. How long? I couldn't tell you. Long enough to know the religeon.

When this has happened, convert to another and stay until yet again you have an understaning of the religeon.

Do this maybe a third time... or fourth time... or again and again and again till you end up back at the religion you had departed in the first place and be able to say with utter conviction that that religion is the one, the only, the true religion.

Because after all...

If you do an absolute belief in the truth of your religion, experiencing a different faith with a pure heart, open mind, and a strong will should not shake you from the true faith.



This is impossible. The problem stems from the idea that "faith" is a condition of mind. Or just a concept to understand and accept. This is not true. Faith is a condition of rebirth and being made aware of our heavenly Father.

I will try and explain - one can not come to faith without first having God revealed to them.

It's like a dead man in a coffin - if you knock on the door - he is certain not to open it. If you shout at him he is certain not to hear you. Even if you kick him as hard as you can - he will not feel it. If he were alive then there you see the difference.

This is as example of the condition of being spiritualy dead - you will know no spiritual thing for this reason.

Faith is a condition of being born again. Where things of the spiritual are made known. A person who is born again lives by faith because of the knowledge of a new life and promise.

What you are asking for is for a person of faith to spiritualy die just to experience spirutal death all over again.

If I have drank from the river of life why would I go back to a poisoned well that leads to death?

Faith is a condition of the mind. You chose to have faith in Christ.

You needed something to keep you going, so you ‘let god reveal himself to you’ through choice. Now you have put all your eggs in the Christian basket, you can’t take them out again. Like most religious people, you are trapped in the first religion you chose or were taught at a young age.

I'm lucky that I was able to take all my eggs out of the basket.

Bad metaphors, you gotta love ‘em.





[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Faith is a condition of the mind. You chose to have faith in Christ.

You needed something to keep you going, so you ‘let god reveal himself to you’ through choice. Now you have put all your eggs in the Christian basket, you can’t take them out again. Like most religious people, you are trapped in that religion.

I was lucky to take all my eggs out of the basket, no I carry them around in my heads.

Bad metaphors, you gotta love ‘em.

I'm afraid what you expereiced was subjugation and not a true personal surrender in faith.

What you have stated here is far from true in my life and by far is not what I have experienced.

There was a an awakening and revelation. There was knowledge and wisdom poured out and for this reason. To share it with others.

I will spare you my story but, I'm telling you there was a change. A dramatic change in me. God has picked me up, dusted me off and set me on solid ground. He has set me on a the path of the straight and narrow and I could not of got here now by "a state of mind" trust me - I should have been dead long ago.

I'm guessing you were fucked up, and needed a change in your life so you chose to have a revelation and to have God reveiled to you. Now you're brainwashed by Christian dogma.

quote:Originally posted by super chick:

your not supposed to test god. I believe in jesus I dont believe in all the other religions.

How old are you?

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

I'm guessing you were fucked up, and needed a change in your life so you chose to have a revelation and to have God reveiled to you. Now you're brainwashed by Christian dogma.

partly true. But, a very profound experience , or two, lead me to this way.

I was really messed up in all accounts. I am a former US Marine who was in Operations Desert Shield / Storm among other operations and "actions". Dealt with abandonment, abuse and neglect to a suicide of a parent. My own drug abuse, depression etc. making my own rules, rebellious, hated everything, didn't care, didn't love, one relationship after another...It all lead to sitting at the end of my bed with a pistol at my temple thinking long and hard about what this is all about.

It came to me - and it wasn't what I was expecting. I'm just being honest with you. I know that God exists by what He has done in me. There is no room for a state of mind..since mine is so weak willed I would have pulled the trigger long ago without true divine intervention.

Hmm, you and digital both had drug problems, and other similarities. I’ve always believed religion is for the majority of the weak willed, and from talking to you and digital I’ve come to see this as true.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

partly true. But, a very profound experience , or two, lead me to this way.

I was really messed up in all accounts. I am a former US Marine who was in Operations Desert Shield / Storm among other operations and "actions". Dealt with abandonment, abuse and neglect to a suicide of a parent. My own drug abuse, depression etc. making my own rules, rebellious, hated everything, didn't care, didn't love, one relationship after another...It all lead to sitting at the end of my bed with a pistol at my temple thinking long and hard about what this is all about.

It came to me - and it wasn't what I was expecting. I'm just being honest with you. I know that God exists by what He has done in me. There is no room for a state of mind..since mine is so weak willed I would have pulled the trigger long ago without true divine intervention.

Like I said, believe in God if you need one- I'm very happy you're alive.

I have no idea how you knew this was the christian God speaking to you, but ok.

Keep in mind you don't need to be christian to believe in a higher power.

I believe that if there is a God, he gave us the means to figure it all out ourselves. We just have to make sure we don't get duped into believing things by other people.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Hmm, you and digital both had drug problems, and other similarities. I’ve always believed religion is for the majority of the weak willed, and from talking to you and digital I’ve come to see this as true.

Yo, dude. You can't say just because two "born-agains" are past drug users and have had problems that you've come to a conclusion about the majority of a group of people. Most people who have had a huge turn-around in their lives because of Belief had a bad past, that's why they so willingly accept the faith. It's a way to believe in some good reason for your life.