SAN PEDRO CUTUD, Philippines - At least 11 Filipino devotees were nailed to the cross during Good Friday reenactments of Christ's final hours.

The Lenten ritual, opposed by religious leaders in the Philippines, is an annual tradition in this farming village about 45 miles north of the capital, Manila.

The Roman Catholic devotees were crucified in batches, their palms and feet attached to wooden crosses with four-inch nails soaked in alcohol to prevent infection.

Nine devotees underwent the ritual in San Pedro Cutud, including Ruben Enaje, a 45-year-old commercial sign maker who was nailed to the cross for the 20th time.

Enaje has said it is his way of thanking God after he miraculously survived a fall from a building when he was a construction worker.

In Kapitangan, another village north of Manila, two men wearing long wigs and tin crowns were nailed to the cross before about 1,000 spectators. - FERNANDO SEPE, Associated Press

Forty-five-year-old Ruben Enaje (http://tinyurl.com/k9ggv) grimaces as he is nailed to the cross for the 20th time during annual lenten rites in San Pedro Cutud village, in San Fernando city about 70 kilometers (45 miles) north of Manila on Friday April 14, 2006. Enaje said it is his way of thanking God for miraculously surviving a fall from a building when he was a construction worker. At least seven Filipino devotees were nailed believing that the sacrifice would save them from sin. (AP Photo/Aaron Favila)

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This is what happens when people take Christianity into their own hands (no pun intended), instead of reading the Bible, and following what it says.

God neither commands us to do this, nor enjoys it when people hurt themselves, even in His name.

This is a good example of what NOT to do. This perfectly illustrates just how perverted men can make Christianity out to be. It's not a surprise that religions like The Church of Mormon and the Jehovah's Witnesses end up believing in, and practicing, such outrageous and unscriptural rituals.

For those of you who DO pray, please say one for the peoples of the Phillipines. They engage in these activities every year. They need to be freed from the bondage of their misunderstanding, so they can come to truly enjoy a fulfilling relationship with God.

We need more missionaries !

They're a lot of fucking dorks. When I visited my sister there a couple years ago, I and my brother played the part of the Jesus-hating crowd and threw stuff at them. It was fun!

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

This perfectly illustrates just how perverted men can make Christianity out to be.



Funny thing is, they probably think the same thing about you.

That's religion for you.

I was going to type out a reply, I was like halfway, but I won't even post it. You're only trying to provoke everyone, and like always, you're only telling people how holy and "right" you are http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

self mutilation is another symptom of religion, which only reaffirms my belief that there is no place for religion of any kind in our modern secular democracies.

I know you guys are atheists, and I am, too, but you are being too harsh on Digital. She is right. In Christian theology, Jesus is supposed to be the ultimate and final sacrifice. No one is supposed to give up anything in the name of the Lord anymore because of what he did. I mean, you don't have to hold the faith to understand their theology. I disagree with it, but, in the terms she is describing, Digital is completely correct.

I don't care wether she is technically right. Maybe she is. Thing is, this post of hers is filled with contempt of these Filipino's.

quote:They need to be freed from the bondage of their misunderstanding, so they can come to truly enjoy a fulfilling relationship with God.

See? "They need to be freed from the bondage of their misunderstanding."

So now she's saying what these people should do? Hah, on what grounds does she base herself. Fuck her religion. She has no right to interfere in others people's lives, no matter what her book says.

Keep in mind that these people are CHOOSING to do this. Let them do what they want. If it makes them feel better, why should we stop them? They're not hurting anybody else.

And, what I hate about her, is how she says "truly enjoy a fullfilling relationship with God." Hah, of course, only she can know what that could be, huh?

I learned about this years and years ago, just from living in a Filipino neighborhood.

Yea, it's pretty wierd.

Cheers,

Lost

We're so much more spiritually advanced in America. I prayed online yesterday!

This is really OLD.

Does the bible say to go to church once a week and watch a priest talk for an hour?

Does the bible say buy roserys, ceramic angels, and crosses?

Does the bible say write cheesy and normally badly done rock and even rap songs about god?

Do Christians do these things?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

For those of you who DO pray, please say one for the peoples of the Phillipines. They engage in these activities every year. They need to be freed from the bondage of their misunderstanding, so they can come to truly enjoy a fulfilling relationship with God.

Them and those guys in the states that play with rattlesnakes because the Bible says that they won't be bitten or die if they have faith.

My dad said that when he was a kid they did the crucifiction thing in Montreal, not sure if they still do, but stuff like this is not limmited to strange and distant lands.

Yeh, religious people like to do their freakish activities together so they can feel normal.

bless...

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

We're so much more spiritually advanced in America. I prayed online yesterday!

Lol.

That was a HOOT!

funny, this reenactment of the passion was first started in europe, but somehow digital pins this on filipinos. either digital hates people that arent white, or just hates religious people who have a very strong passion for their religion. on that note, maybe she hates americans and christians in general. she is a terrorist sympathizer anyways.

hey fuck u motherfuckers. dont be dissin the flips for do shit like that. im a flip and the reason why we do that is so that can get as close to how jesus felt before he died. they arent stupid. what i find stupid are judgemental assholes who judge other peoples ways of worshipping god. this is why christians always fight eachother. i mean fuck we are all worshipping one god here if ur christian. LEAVE EACHOTHER THE FUCK ALONE.

quote:Originally Posted by Bruce4444:

hey fuck u motherfuckers. dont be dissin the flips for do shit like that. im a flip and the reason why we do that is so that can get as close to how jesus felt before he died. they arent stupid. what i find stupid are judgemental assholes who judge other peoples ways of worshipping god. this is why christians always fight eachother. i mean fuck we are all worshipping one god here if ur christian. LEAVE EACHOTHER THE FUCK ALONE.

Quoted because he is a good example of a typical christian.

no im a pissed off example of a typical catholic and im sick of everyone judging other religions and practices. its the same as racism but sumhow its accepted it todays society. that just shows how wonderful the world has become. FYI that was sarcasm.

Ok.

I agree that most people are close minded and this can be shown in Digital_Savior saying filipinos were doing to please god, but they were actually doing it to get into jesuses mindset in his final hours, which is actually very deep and didicated when you think about it. Also D_S most likely assumed it was to please god because of lack of research, so I think the moral here is get your facts right. She as well has Interest have made incorrect statements about things, which were proven false, so don't feel bad, these are just ignorant people who assume they are right without looking into it first.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

self mutilation is another symptom of religion, which only reaffirms my belief that there is no place for religion of any kind in our modern secular democracies.

I don't know why this reply stuck out and prompted me to speak up.

Firstly I agree. Democracy thrives on secularism. I've been studying the pacification of Iraq and realized the only way democracy can prevail is if they shun their religion or marginalize it and follow secular beliefs to prevail.

Theocracy is a threat to democracy and vice versa.

Hang onto your hats..I'm going to talk about the bible -

However, I have to add one thing. The prophesy in the bible says that in the end times, the world will eventually be divided into 10 regions of government. When the time comes for the union of the world, they will vote to release all their power to the single ruler of the world.

Most people just buzz past this part of the prophesy because we are all told the brilliance and greatness of democracy. We are blinded to the fact it will be democracy that will usher in the anti-christ rule. The weakness of democracy is that the change in power will often have a change in the rules and laws. If you have a billion people believing in one thing you will eventually have it. The tides and trends will always change until one day they will figure out a way to put a dictator over us. If you think Bush is bad..just wait - there is one that will make Bush look like a choir boy on the way.

One day, enough people will proclaim the evils of the scripture and prohibit it from use. Then they will turn on those who hang their live on those words and do their worst there as well.

Religion isn't here to rule this world, despite the popular opinion. It is here to lead people to God. There was a point in ancient history where it was no longer meant to rule nations but only keep it's heart pure.

politics and religion are the two most non-interchangeble things that we should never seperate. Keep the prophesy in mind as the future events of the world unfold. It is politics and government that will eventually reveal the ultimate evil in man - not religion.

[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Encrypted Soldier:

This is really OLD.

quote:Originally posted by Bruce4444:

hey fuck u motherfuckers. dont be dissin the flips for do shit like that. im a flip and the reason why we do that is so that can get as close to how jesus felt before he died. they arent stupid. what i find stupid are judgemental assholes who judge other peoples ways of worshipping god. this is why christians always fight eachother. i mean fuck we are all worshipping one god here if ur christian. LEAVE EACHOTHER THE FUCK ALONE.

You're a funny little fucker. You amuse me.

Why the fuck don't you wrap a noose around your neck and choke yourself while masturbating? That should take you pretty cloe to Heaven. Or better yet, take enough peyote and tequila until you keel over in excruciating pain and see vivid hallucinations of Jesus Christ talking to you? I mean, that should do it fairly well. Imagine, you could actually talk to Jesus. Fuck knowing what He felt like, you're speaking to the man Himself.

Tell me something, do you "flips" get aroused when you get crucified? Cuz it sounds downright kinky, getting tied to a cross, getting whipped, peope calling you all sorts of dirty names, and throwin things at you. I have a bit of Filipina in my blood too. Maybe that's why whipping chicks gets me all hard up. Mmmmmm....

One other thing, shouldn't you discontinue cursing? Wouldn't want you to sully the shiny halo on your head with a barrage of filthy four-letter words, tsk tsk.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



This is what happens when people take Christianity into their own hands (no pun intended), instead of reading the Bible, and following what it says.

God neither commands us to do this, nor enjoys it when people hurt themselves, even in His name.

This is a good example of what NOT to do. This perfectly illustrates just how perverted men can make Christianity out to be. It's not a surprise that religions like The Church of Mormon and the Jehovah's Witnesses end up believing in, and practicing, such outrageous and unscriptural rituals.

For those of you who DO pray, please say one for the peoples of the Phillipines. They engage in these activities every year. They need to be freed from the bondage of their misunderstanding, so they can come to truly enjoy a fulfilling relationship with God.

We need more missionaries !



There's plenty of things modern Christians do that Christ never commanded. Which is why Christianity is losing alot of its effectiveness as compared to Islam, for example. Islam is growing by leaps and bounds, as compared to any other mainstream religion. In my opinion, it's beause of the sacrifice and self-discipline involved in Islam. Christianity is too weak on its followers. There's too much wishy-washyness and just all-round bullshit flying around. Each different branch constantly spewing their shit about their interpretation of the Bible, and in some cases completely disregarding the Bible while pretending to be Christians.

At least these Filipinos have the balls to show that they love their God, unlike the Anglicans who have faggot pastors, contrary to their Holy Book. And while their dedication may be misfounded and misled, they are at least showing it. Same with Islam, the followers show they're dedicated to it. Whether they are correct in being dedicated to it or not, is different subject matter, but they are dedicated to it. That takes balls.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

There's plenty of things modern Christians do that Christ never commanded. Which is why Christianity is losing alot of its effectiveness as compared to Islam, for example. Islam is growing by leaps and bounds, as compared to any other mainstream religion. In my opinion, it's beause of the sacrifice and self-discipline involved in Islam. Christianity is too weak on its followers. There's too much wishy-washyness and just all-round bullshit flying around. Each different branch constantly spewing their shit about their interpretation of the Bible, and in some cases completely disregarding the Bible while pretending to be Christians.

At least these Filipinos have the balls to show that they love their God, unlike the Anglicans who have faggot pastors, contrary to their Holy Book. And while their dedication may be misfounded and misled, they are at least showing it. Same with Islam, the followers show they're dedicated to it. Whether they are correct in being dedicated to it or not, is different subject matter, but they are dedicated to it. That takes balls.



I think that if a pack of muslims came to my door with a machete and told me to convert or have my head chopped off - I might think twice about where I stood on things as well.

DOn't think because Islam is gaining seats means it is true. I don't need to go into how the "religion of peace" is making gains in Africa.

The truth can't be proven by the number of people who believe it.

[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Ok.

I agree that most people are close minded and this can be shown in Digital_Savior saying filipinos were doing to please god, but they were actually doing it to get into jesuses mindset in his final hours, which is actually very deep and didicated when you think about it. Also D_S most likely assumed it was to please god because of lack of research, so I think the moral here is get your facts right. She as well has Interest have made incorrect statements about things, which were proven false, so don't feel bad, these are just ignorant people who assume they are right without looking into it first.

Quoted for the truth.

Thank you napoleon_complex

Physical devotion to God is nothing short of religious zeal.

Physical pain can create hypnotic states, probably the opposite of ecstatic, but while there is intense pain i believe that a bond with god is created because if you manage to overcome the pain you have concured the physical and entered the spiritual...

http://www.trance.edu/pitfall.htm

Well if Jesus can willingly be nailed to a cross then why cant some Filipino dudes? They're doing it on their own volition, nobody is being dragged kicking and screaming from their homes to be nailed up. It's just a few people expressing their faith in Christ the way they see fit.

Plenty of faiths have the whole torture thing. Some do it to bring themselves to a higher state of being, others do it to reafirm their humanity.

Yeah, I guess it is kinda wierd, but as long as they're not hurting any nonbelievers I dont see a reason to stop it. Perhaps if we let people worship the way they please without meeddling in their affairs the world would be a better place today.

quote:Originally posted by Lou Reed:

Physical devotion to God is nothing short of religious zeal.

Physical pain can create hypnotic states, probably the opposite of ecstatic, but while there is intense pain i believe that a bond with god is created because if you manage to overcome the pain you have concured the physical and entered the spiritual...

http://www.trance.edu/pitfall.htm

Exactly. It goes hand in hand with fasting. Pleasure deprivation or pain induction are just ways that people try and explore their relationship with God. How can you know how strong your relationship is if you don't test it's boundries?

quote:Originally posted by TheLaUghiNgHeretic:

Yeah, I guess it is kinda wierd, but as long as they're not hurting any nonbelievers I dont see a reason to stop it. Perhaps if we let people worship the way they please without meeddling in their affairs the world would be a better place today.

EXACTLY, think of all the wars and violence that would end...

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

The truth can't be proven by the number of people who believe it.

Exactly, apply this to Christianity.

wow, i thought i was the only person of filipino descent on totse. found 2 on this thread alone. but seriously, as a filipino, i know my "peoples" are taking it to an extreme with the whole passion reenactment. but then again, they arent really different from european christians. european christians started the self mutilation passion reenactment, specifically Germany did.

also, european christians invaded muslim lands to claim as their own. which has been happening in the phillipines ever since missionaries came over and converted the muslims into christians. the whole north christian capitalist vs. south muslim socialist type thing going on in the phillipines.

i mean so what if they want to do that? so what, digital? you dont like it, take off your shoes, those were probably made by those people. actually, check everything you own and see what you have were made by those people you judge. the fact is, those people work for pennies a day so you can buy your crap cheap at walmart. they save you a buck and you condemn them for being more christian than you'll ever be.

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Exactly, apply this to Christianity.

I do - Christianity is exclusionary - it's no mystery that it isn't accepted by everyone.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Funny thing is, they probably think the same thing about you.

That's religion for you.

Except I don't do anything for God that He doesn't directly ask me to.

This disgusting display presents a dichotomy in regards to Christianity, because we are commanded to take care of our temple (body).

quote:Originally posted by Dre Crabbe:

I was going to type out a reply, I was like halfway, but I won't even post it. You're only trying to provoke everyone, and like always, you're only telling people how holy and "right" you are http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I am pointing out that man can never get it right, no matter how hard he tries, so he'd better just stick to following God's word, to the very letter.

This isn't about provocation. I'm not that bored, nor simple-minded.

This is about showing the things men are capable of when they don't listen to God.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

self mutilation is another symptom of religion, which only reaffirms my belief that there is no place for religion of any kind in our modern secular democracies.

There is no scripture supporting this heinous act.

Your opinion is therefore nullified.

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

I know you guys are atheists, and I am, too, but you are being too harsh on Digital. She is right. In Christian theology, Jesus is supposed to be the ultimate and final sacrifice. No one is supposed to give up anything in the name of the Lord anymore because of what he did. I mean, you don't have to hold the faith to understand their theology. I disagree with it, but, in the terms she is describing, Digital is completely correct.

Thanks for seeing this thread for what it is, and not building a strawman based solely on your contempt for my beliefs. It's appreciated.

quote:I don't care wether she is technically right. Maybe she is. Thing is, this post of hers is filled with contempt of these Filipino's.

Nope. It's contempt toward Satan, who manages to convince people into doing such horrific things to themselves.

The Filipino's are sincere. This is something very personal, and important to them. They THINK they are doing it for God, but they are mistaken.

If anything, I feel sorry (not pity) for them.

quote:See? "They need to be freed from the bondage of their misunderstanding."

They do !

Satan's #1 tactic is to screw up the word of God so that our relationship with Him will be hindered. This accomplishes something very important: a weakening of faith. It also accomplishes something else: making God appear to be an ass.

1. God would never ask us to harm ourselves.

2. This kind of behavior doesn't glorify God. At all. Since it doesn't, it has no place in Christianity.

quote:So now she's saying what these people should do? Hah, on what grounds does she base herself. Fuck her religion. She has no right to interfere in others people's lives, no matter what her book says.

It's called the Bible.

For someone with such strong opinions as you have, I'd expect you to at least know from whence the tenets of my faith orginate.

quote:Keep in mind that these people are CHOOSING to do this. Let them do what they want. If it makes them feel better, why should we stop them? They're not hurting anybody else.

People CHOOSE to sin everyday. All sin is harmful to us.

The philosophy you are presenting here is that of an atheist. "Do whatever feels good !" In case you hadn't noticed, Christians are supposed to be doing the exact opposite.

Don't apply YOUR philosophy to MY faith, please.

quote:And, what I hate about her, is how she says "truly enjoy a fullfilling relationship with God." Hah, of course, only she can know what that could be, huh?

It took a lot of sinning on my part to understand what I do about Christianity and God now.

This is experience talking, not blind assumption.

Read the Bible. What I am saying is true...at least for Christians it is.

P.S. I love you whining about how intolerant you perceive me to be, all while you are being intolerant of me. Classic !

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Does the bible say to go to church once a week and watch a priest talk for an hour?

Nope. It recommends that we fellowship with our brothers, and the significance of the Sabbath has nothing to do with sermons. It doesn't even involve them.

Which is why I don't participate in "religious" services.

quote:Does the bible say buy roserys, ceramic angels, and crosses?

Nope. That is idolatry, and a perfect example of the sin the Catholic Church has immersed itself in.

quote:Does the bible say write cheesy and normally badly done rock and even rap songs about god?

Nope. But that doesn't really matter, in context.

quote:Do Christians do these things?

And these same Christians are in need of spiritual guidance, directly from Biblical text.

Just like these poor Filipino chaps.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Them and those guys in the states that play with rattlesnakes because the Bible says that they won't be bitten or die if they have faith.

Oh, yes !!! OMG, what silliness.

Again, taking the Bible out of context does not an obedient Christian make.

quote:My dad said that when he was a kid they did the crucifiction thing in Montreal, not sure if they still do, but stuff like this is not limmited to strange and distant lands.

That's not surprising. This thread wasn't meant to target Filipino's...they're just the only ones I have seen doing it.

This is more about taking scripture out of context, and doing whatever you want with it.

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

funny, this reenactment of the passion was first started in europe, but somehow digital pins this on filipinos. either digital hates people that arent white, or just hates religious people who have a very strong passion for their religion. on that note, maybe she hates americans and christians in general. she is a terrorist sympathizer anyways.

Actually, I am not pinning it on anyone.

The article is about Filipino's. The picture has Filipino's doing this in them. I addressed THIS specific instance, because it's the instance I was reading about.

Way to build a strawman there...*puts a torch to it*

quote:Originally posted by Bruce4444:

hey fuck u motherfuckers. dont be dissin the flips for do shit like that. im a flip and the reason why we do that is so that can get as close to how jesus felt before he died.

Does Jesus ask anyone to do that for him ?

quote:they arent stupid.

Who said anything about stupid ?

Misguided, yes. Stupid, no.

quote:what i find stupid are judgemental assholes who judge other peoples ways of worshipping god. this is why christians always fight eachother. i mean fuck we are all worshipping one god here if ur christian. LEAVE EACHOTHER THE FUCK ALONE.

There is but one way to worship God, and that is the way He commands us to.

Anything else is man-made, and is not worthy of God.

Also, you are the perfect example of what a Christian should be like...you sound like you are in need of an exorcism. http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Quoted because he is a good example of a typical christian.

How many typical Christians have you been around ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

I agree that most people are close minded and this can be shown in Digital_Savior saying filipinos were doing to please god, but they were actually doing it to get into jesuses mindset in his final hours, which is actually very deep and didicated when you think about it.

But unscriptural, and mindful of MAN'S desires, not God's.

Christianity is not about US. It's about God.

quote:Also D_S most likely assumed it was to please god because of lack of research, so I think the moral here is get your facts right. She as well has Interest have made incorrect statements about things, which were proven false, so don't feel bad, these are just ignorant people who assume they are right without looking into it first.

If this isn't an act for God, it's not an act a Christian should be participating in to begin with.

It's rich that you see fit to call ME ignorant, when it is clear you lack the understanding of Christianity to even formulate an educated opinion about it.

1. Does God ask us to do these things ? No. Then we shouldn't do them.

2. Does God command us to care for our temple (body ? Yes. Driving nails through our flesh just so we can "experience Jesus' last moments" is not a good excuse to risk getting tetanus, and sustaining life long injuries.

3. Does this fanaticism reflect well on God, and Christianity as a whole ? No.

4. If this is not an act that brings them closer to God, why are they doing it in the name of Christianity ?

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

There's plenty of things modern Christians do that Christ never commanded.

You are absolutely correct, which is why Biblical literalists like me are tasked with pointing these things out, and referring adherents back to scripture.

What these people are doing doesn't have anything to do with God.

quote:Which is why Christianity is losing alot of its effectiveness as compared to Islam, for example. Islam is growing by leaps and bounds, as compared to any other mainstream religion.

Christianity isn't really declining. As a matter of fact, it's been on the rise for the past ten years.

However, prophecy tells us that it WILL become a minority (yes, kids...get out your party hats !).

Islam is more of a cultural thing than a religious thing, in my opinion, which makes it more appealing.

quote:In my opinion, it's beause of the sacrifice and self-discipline involved in Islam.

I don't think this argument holds any water, because that is precisely the reason why people don't convert to Christianity: they have to be disciplined and sacrifice their fleshly vices !

quote:Christianity is too weak on its followers. There's too much wishy-washyness and just all-round bullshit flying around. Each different branch constantly spewing their shit about their interpretation of the Bible, and in some cases completely disregarding the Bible while pretending to be Christians.

Sadly, you are 100% correct.

There are still a few of us who take God literally, and try to spread His gospel accordingly.

In this case, I am pointing out the acts of these Filipino's, because it's not scriptural, nor is it of God. That's my job.

quote:At least these Filipinos have the balls to show that they love their God, unlike the Anglicans who have faggot pastors, contrary to their Holy Book. And while their dedication may be misfounded and misled, they are at least showing it. Same with Islam, the followers show they're dedicated to it. Whether they are correct in being dedicated to it or not, is different subject matter, but they are dedicated to it. That takes balls.

So, it's ok to do whatever you want, as long as it shows your dedication to "something" ?

I'm not sure I buy that...but thanks for posting your thoughts on this topic.

quote:Originally posted by TheLaUghiNgHeretic:

Well if Jesus can willingly be nailed to a cross then why cant some Filipino dudes? They're doing it on their own volition, nobody is being dragged kicking and screaming from their homes to be nailed up. It's just a few people expressing their faith in Christ the way they see fit.

Well, you can go off on a tangent if you want to, but that isn't going to change the fact that your'e not addressing the real problem here, which I clearly indicated in my original post.

This is about THEM. I don't care how it affects others. It IS important, yes, but ultimately, it's THESE guys that suffer for their unscriptural behavior.

quote:Plenty of faiths have the whole torture thing. Some do it to bring themselves to a higher state of being, others do it to reafirm their humanity.

Then these Filipino's need to dedicate their lives to THOSE religions.

God doesn't ask for this self-mutilation. Since He didn't ask for it, it's not of Him, and is therefore of Satan.

Period.

quote:Yeah, I guess it is kinda wierd, but as long as they're not hurting any nonbelievers I dont see a reason to stop it. Perhaps if we let people worship the way they please without meeddling in their affairs the world would be a better place today.

This being "weird" isn't the problem...it's what they are risking as a result of their blind fanaticism.

If I do not hold my brothers in Christ accountable for their misconceptions and sins, I am not worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Just as I wouldn't let my sister kill herself on her coke habit, I wouldn't let ANYONE harm themself in the name of God, especially since He didn't ONCE command us to do so.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Exactly. It goes hand in hand with fasting. Pleasure deprivation or pain induction are just ways that people try and explore their relationship with God. How can you know how strong your relationship is if you don't test it's boundries?

God commands us to fast. He doesn't command us to inflict pain upon ourselves.

Once salvation through acceptance and faith in Christ is achieved, there is no NEED to test boundaries...that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity !

But I wouldn't expect you to know that, as deeply persuaded by Catholic dogma as you are, seeing as how men of the cloth have notoriously whipped themselves bloody in order to "cleanse" themselves of their sin. Jesus' sacrifice simply wasn't good enough for them...

Yeah, totally scriptural !

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

also, european christians invaded muslim lands to claim as their own. which has been happening in the phillipines ever since missionaries came over and converted the muslims into christians. the whole north christian capitalist vs. south muslim socialist type thing going on in the phillipines.

I fail to see your point, or how it might even be relevant to this thread. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:i mean so what if they want to do that? so what, digital? you dont like it, take off your shoes, those were probably made by those people. actually, check everything you own and see what you have were made by those people you judge. the fact is, those people work for pennies a day so you can buy your crap cheap at walmart. they save you a buck and you condemn them for being more christian than you'll ever be.

I have already explained the "so what". This is harmful to them both spiritually, and physically.

Anything a Christian does outside the will of God is harmful to them.

This isn't about Filipino's and Walmart. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

Digital is completely correct.

And intolerant, you forgot that part.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God commands us to fast. He doesn't command us to inflict pain upon ourselves.

Fasting is starving yourself, starving is pain. If you don’t believe me, go look at some starving Africans.

[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-20-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God commands us to fast. He doesn't command us to inflict pain upon ourselves.

Once salvation through acceptance and faith in Christ is achieved, there is no NEED to test boundaries...that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity !

But I wouldn't expect you to know that, as deeply persuaded by Catholic dogma as you are, seeing as how men of the cloth have notoriously whipped themselves bloody in order to "cleanse" themselves of their sin. Jesus' sacrifice simply wasn't good enough for them...

Yeah, totally scriptural !

It has everything to dow ith faith though. That's what this is about. It's a demonstration and test of their own personal faith with God. I didn't realize that everyone must show and practice their faith in God by the methods that you do... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Your bigotry is also getting tiresome and it only shows your ignorance.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God commands us to fast.

No, God commands you to fast, Bacchus commands me to get blind steaming pissed and Bellon commands me to have a gigantic gluttonous feast and then perform an abortion on some unsuspecting pregnant women, and then sell the gunk to fund stem-cell research and equal-opportunity-for-gay-minister charities.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Nope. It recommends that we fellowship with our brothers, and the significance of the Sabbath has nothing to do with sermons. It doesn't even involve them.

Which is why I don't participate in "religious" services.

Digital_Savior, although I believe what you say most of the time is ignorant, I can see you are not as blind as most, for you have at least questioned modern religion and it's practices, something most don't dare to do, and for that you have earned my respect.

wow. last i had heard, the furthest people went was to be tied up on a cross. not going as far as the whole nailing. whatever gets you to believe...

quote:Originally posted by jb_mcbean:

No, God commands you to fast, Bacchus commands me to get blind steaming pissed and Bellon commands me to have a gigantic gluttonous feast and then perform an abortion on some unsuspecting pregnant women, and then sell the gunk to fund stem-cell research and equal-opportunity-for-gay-minister charities.

By "us" I was speaking for Christians... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Digital_Savior, although I believe what you say most of the time is ignorant, I can see you are not as blind as most, for you have at least questioned modern religion and it's practices, something most don't dare to do, and for that you have earned my respect.

I am a Biblical literalist. I don't need rituals and gatherings to feel the Lords presence. I believe that is the way it should be. We are told "where two or three are gathered" God will be there. I think this has been widely misunderstood to mean that we should build halls and erect buildings to separate ourselves from others.

That is not how Jesus taught. He WENT to the people. He also didn't ask for donations for his ministry. He commanded us to tithe 10% of our income to God for OBEDIENCE purposes, not to make Pope's and their clergymen rich.

I have big issues with religion, and I haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg here. I do attend church every now and again, but it is certainly for worshipping purposes (and by worship I mean the music). I also go to seek the counsel of the Bible scholars that can be found there, because I really DON'T have all the answers. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Suffice it to say, I try to be as pure to the Christian faith as I possibly can, in hopes that I can shed the bondages of religion. Only when we all (Christians) do this will we start to love our brothers as we love ourselves.

I'm not great at it yet, but I try.

Thanks for the post.