Forgive me if I dont meet the unwritten standards of My God, but I had an interesting thought I wanted input on from the people in this forum.

Lately, I have been reading about magick (I use the K at the because it is the common spelling of the texts I have read), and I have begun to think that magick maybe natural rather than supernatural. I starting to believe that magick is an innate human ability,although very weak, that most (if not all) humans can perform. My reasoning is the same that justifies psyonic (telekinesis, telepathy etc.), that we are biologically capable of bending reality to our will. I do somewhat believe in magick, but there are limits to it(I'm sure that if someone could hurl fireballs the population would know about this, and the military would love to have someone that could rain fire from the sky).

On the atheist part of this, I am a stone cold strong atheist. That is, I do not believe in a gone and reject all possiblities of there being one.

My questions are: In your opinion, would it be possible to be a strong atheist (see above for definition) and also believe in the existance of magick?

Note: Sorry in advance for the poor grammar I am not exactly an english major heh.

Atheists simply don’t believe in deities (and for most, like me, also in an afterlife)

I don’t see why not. I’ve read about magic myself and it always seemed more naturalistic than paranormal to me to.

An atheist wouldn't believe in magick unless they could scientifically prove it works by repeated demonstrations and testing.

Do that, and...you'd have it made.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

An atheist wouldn't believe in magick unless they could scientifically prove it works by repeated demonstrations and testing.

Do that, and...you'd have it made.

That makes me think of another question then: What would someone who doesnt believe in a god, but believes there is something such as magick be called?

Edit: fixed missing words.



[This message has been edited by Dystopic_Figure (edited 04-15-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

An atheist wouldn't believe in magick unless they could scientifically prove it works by repeated demonstrations and testing.

Do that, and...you'd have it made.

Yeah, he put it better than me.

There is a word for someone that believes in magick but not Gods, but I can't remember it. :-S

An atheist could believe in magick. If they can't see the results, it's just another matter of faith, like theist have with their god.

Depends on which type(s) of magick we're talking about, but most rituals require faith of the effects in order to work. An atheist could give this faith, even more readily than they could have faith in a god, because magick is a more earthly concept. It's not really asking that much to ask an atheist to believe in magick.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he put it better than me.

There is a word for someone that believes in magick but not Gods, but I can't remember it. :-S[/B][/QUOTE]

I'd really appricate it if you could remember or if someone else coudl find out what the term is. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to classifications. o_O

It is ritual and belief that holds power, thus why religion is so popular. Oly differance is that generally in religion people focus their belief on the power of the priests or spiritual leaders and so lose a lot of personal power.

although Im not a magic (Magick seems so ... commercialised... ,this is how it is spelled originally ,and this is how it should stay spelled.) practitioner ,I still believe in the power of magic. Not as some mystical force ,but rather a focusing of desires. Thus magic can be beneficial in having a sense of control ,and self belief....

tat said ,reality DOES bend itself to our will ... look at the insane.... their reality is differant to ours visibly ,although it is the same for everyone ....

Atheist = does not believe in god.

That's the definition, stick with it.

[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 04-19-2006).]

Believe what you want.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Atheist = does only believe in god.

That's the definition, stick with it.



EXACTLY.

an "atheist" can believe absolutly anything, it is not like religion where there is a set belief.

spelling magic as "magick" makes you look like a retard, it is clear that most of the magic humans have believed/believe in is total bollocks, you cannot "cast spells" on people in the hocus pocus sense, and the kind of "magick" which you are refering too is still pretty much based around this.

There are things which cannot be explained which some would say are magic, for example healing, "psychic attack", miracles and the like, but they are not magic, they "could" be explained by science or at least by something.

quote:Originally posted by Mellow_Fellow:



EXACTLY.

an "atheist" can believe absolutly anything, it is not like religion where there is a set belief.

spelling magic as "magick" makes you look like a retard, it is clear that most of the magic humans have believed/believe in is total bollocks, you cannot "cast spells" on people in the hocus pocus sense, and the kind of "magick" which you are refering too is still pretty much based around this.

There are things which cannot be explained which some would say are magic, for example healing, "psychic attack", miracles and the like, but they are not magic, they "could" be explained by science or at least by something.

I'm getting a feeling you think I mean the supernatural yatata crap people usually think about. Firstly, I believe that a very limited (boardering on nothing) amount of ,for the lack of a better term, magic abilies actually exist (I.E. no summoning demons no talking to the dead etc.). Secondly, magic in this sense is not supernatural, rather natural in that humans are biologically able to perform these acts. Thirdly, I only use the term magic to distinguish between psyhic ablities (telekinsis,telepathy etc.) and other acts that seem magical.

Magic, in my sense, is more of an extension on common psyhic ablities, rather than the "COME BEFORE ME LUFICER" ritualistic neo-pagan/wiccan/satanist magic.

Edit: This entire thread my be the result of sleep depervation.



[This message has been edited by Dystopic_Figure (edited 04-15-2006).]

Atheist just means you're not a theist, it ahs nothing to do with whether you belive in supernatural or paranormal.

I am an Atheist. I deny the existance of god, and reject religion. Why? Well, you only need half a brain to see why religion is bullshit. But, that doesn't mean I don't believe in magic. Well, I believe it is highly doubtfull, but there could be some kind of scientific explination to it, that we haven't discovered yet. You all will probably think I'm a dumb ass when I say this, but, I believe I can make small predictions about the future. Nothing huge, but every now and then I can sense tiny things that are going to happen. Call me crazy, I don't care.

If you know the true name of an object you can unleash its power.

religion really confuses me.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

There is as much bullshit in the

magickal traditions as there are

in any religions.

But there is something I believe

that they all have in common:

That there is a deeper level

of reality - and that through

certain practices and lifestyles

a person can gain some insights,

maybe even influence on this plane.

The problem is that people take

"otherworld" experiences, interpret

and filter them through whatever

belief system they have, and

it becomes just part of new dogma.

Then you got more bullshit.

There is a story, don't know the source,

but that a monk was meditating and

the buddha came to him in a vision.

He told his master, who responded,

"That happens sometimes. Concentrate

harder and it will go away."