Doesn't it degrade on your consiousness and make you lazy and cowardly?

It's a selfish act given the fact that instead of masturbating you could be standing in the street with a poster saving babies.

I think God sees it like this: having sexual thoughts isn't a sin seeing as you can't control what you think... but it's when you act on these thoughts (ie masturbating) it becomes a sin.

[This message has been edited by bynumbers (edited 04-15-2006).]

If masturbation was a sin, nobody would go to Heaven.

If your Catholic,then probably. Your denying sperm the chance to become human beings, whcih is pretty much the argument against abortion.

quote:Originally posted by bynumbers:

I think God sees it like this: having sexual thoughts isn't a sin seeing as you can't control what you think... but it's when you act on these thoughts (ie masturbating) it becomes a sin.



You can't controll your thoughts? Are you mentally damaged?

quote:Originally posted by bynumbers:

I think God sees it like this: having sexual thoughts isn't a sin seeing as you can't control what you think... but it's when you act on these thoughts (ie masturbating) it becomes a sin.



LOL, I agree with the guy above. And I thought I read that if you've already thought about it, as in fantasize, you've already committed the sin.

Well...holy shit...

To quote Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes, while being dragged into the principal's office...

"Help! It's the thought police!"

I call bullshit in the 1st degree.

Edit: Let me add something.



Lazy and cowardly?

You are supposed to fear God. If you don't obey him, you burn in hell. God kills thousands, maybe totaling in the millions, of people in the bible to convince others to follow him.

Christianity appears less a religion of good people, and more a religion of cowards.

God bears a remarkable connection to Sonny from "A Bronx Tale." Sonny is the charismatic italian mafia leader. A kid named 'C' looks up to him. He kills someone, C is a witness, and then he lies to get Sonny off. Sonny looks after him as he grows up because of it. Sonny is pretty smart and has a reasonable sense of reality considering his environment. He's a prick, but while watching the movie, you see him as a good guy.

Anyway, at one point Sonny is telling C about how he treats his men. He explains that he gives them enough so they love him, but still fear him. C then asks Sonny if he thinks it is better to be loved or feared. Sonny is silent for a moment, then replies, "In the long run, I'd rather be feared. It lasts longer."



Christians aren't ones to talk about cowardly.

[This message has been edited by IanBoyd3 (edited 04-15-2006).]

its considered a sin under christian doctrine. not so much a written law of God. its the whole "wasting seed" thing from genesis that churches misinterperet into christians cant masturbate. im not sure what the jewish or muslim take is on that since they share the same torah/pentateuch books.

As someone said before me, masturbation is selfish act; therefore it is a sin.

I often find myself breathing air; it's undoubtedly a selfish act, but I can't help it.

A girl once told me: "I don't masterbate because I like to share the fun"

Well even if you are wasting a seed by masturbating aren't you giving a future seed a chance?

How is it wasting seed? If you weren’t going to get married soon, and you weren’t having sex before marriage then your seed would be destroyed after six months by going back into your bloodstream. What does it matter how it’s destroyed? It wasn’t going to be used for a baby anyway, and masturbation is perfectly healthy.

It’s that whole religious demeaning humanity and making them feel guilty about everything thing I reckon.

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

A girl once told me: "I don't masterbate because I like to share the fun"

NO FUCKING WAY!!!. I dated a girl who used to say that same fucking thing!

Here's my take on it.. What we're being told at the moment is that the bible doesn't specificly mention masturbation as a sin.. But sex is supposedly something to be enjoyed between man and wife.. and masturbating is essentially having sex with yourself.

And the processes leading to masturbating, such as lust and pornography is a sin.

But here's what I think.. I think masturbation actually stops people from acting upon our urges in a more serious way. Imagine a world where we all stopped ourselves from masturbating.. There'd probably be a lot more sex and rape.

And so I also think the church may have misinterpeted it, as some other things.

And if wasting sperm in a sin.. Then so are condoms and the pill.

And one other thing.. None of us are going to hell for our sins unless you apologise and ask for forgiveness (and mean it). It's pretty simple.

It's fairly annoying when Aetheists come along and go 'LOLZ... YOU CANT DO ANYTHING.. YOUR RELIGION IS SHIT'. I do what I like, other than, for example, killing a person... but I stay within my limits.. I pray every night.. and I _believe_. Why? Because there's something else out there and signs tell us it's God. I'm accepting my invitation to Heaven, thanks. It's futile to think we're here.. and that's about it. We formed out of nothing. 'Oh, oh but it's the atoms!!'.. I wonder who created atoms. Anyway... I'm getting ahead of myself.

I rediscovered christianity after going through a couple of years with much doubts.. being the skeptic I am.

[This message has been edited by Jacobjac (edited 04-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Jacobjac:

Here's my take on it.. What we're being told at the moment is that the bible doesn't specificly mention masturbation as a sin.. But sex is supposedly something to be enjoyed between man and wife.. and masturbating is essentially having sex with yourself.



exactly it is more church doctrine, not biblical law. if you think about how people understood the human reproductive system back in the day, you'd understand why they call it "wasting seed." unfortunately, it is one of those doctrines that hasn't been changed over time as more knowledge has been obtained over the subject.

scientifically it doesnt make sense, but then again science is a word not mentioned in church that often.

ADDED: but they mean well. who wants hairy palms? do you? i know i dont want hairy palms.

[This message has been edited by postdiluvium (edited 04-16-2006).]

i sure hope its not a sin! *goes to bathroom and locks the door*

quote:Originally posted by Trojan_47:

Doesn't it degrade on your consiousness and make you lazy and cowardly?

Ahem, the LOVE of GOD constrains... Hallelujah!

It absolutely is. NOT because it's SELFISH. (That's just funny, and religiously carnal). No offense, but I'm just going to tell the truth like it is, and if anyone gets offended, they can just deal with it. Amen. (Amen, means SO BE IT, not 'THE END', for any one who would think contrary).

Masturbation IS a sin, for the FACT....

God said, ".. And I will WRITE my laws in THEIR HEARTS."

Let's look at this. Did they not have the law written in their hearts in the Old Testament? NO! They didn't. Why? They weren't born again of the Holy Spirit. When you're born again, Christ LIVES in you. You're given the SPIRIT of ADOPTION. You become CHILDREN of GOD. Not only does Christ live in you, but the WHOLE Godhead. If you're born again, you know as well as anyone else, that you can THINK of doing something you KNOW to be sin, and you KNOW not to do it, BEFORE you do it. The Word says, "To him who knows not to sin AND does it, it's sin."

This means, if you don't KNOW sin is sin, and you 'sin', you're PERISHING out of a lack of knowledge, but if you know sin as sin, and sin, you're doing it willfully AGAINST God. Sin doesn't become sin until you know it's sin. This is why you reach an age of accountability. The age of accountability is when you KNOW right from wrong.

.. Ok, I haven't forgotten what I'm talking about, just trying to clarify.

Jesus said, "I say unto you, if you HATE your brother YOU'RE GUILTY OF MURDER, ALREADY IN YOUR HEART."



Jesus said, "If you LOOK on a woman to LUST after her, you've committed adultery ALREADY in your HEART."

See, if you can PLAY it out in your head, and in your heart, it makes it EASIER to act it out in the flesh. Not only that, SIN IS SIN. A liar will go to hell just as quick as a murderer, but grace is grace. (Grace is when you get what you don't deserve). By grace are you saved through faith. So you receive the grace by faith. If you play it out in your head, it's the same as acting it out.

The flesh WARS against the spirit. You know, Paul said to bring EVERY THOUGHT into captivity and bring it into the OBEDIENCE of Jesus Christ. The Word of God also says to be careful of the amount of thought you give your thoughts. Why? You keep watering a seed, it's going to grow and bear fruit. When you act it out in the flesh, sin bears fruit too. If you persist in sin, and you KNOW not to, you're going to reap the consequences, or the fruit of that sin, in the flesh.

"Well, if thinking it's as bad as doing it, I might as well do it." Lord help you if you do.

You know, thinking it out is a sin, but when you act it out, you willingly, go against God.

There was this woman, 21 year old virgin. She was consecrated, and dedicated to God. Well, she had THOUGHTS she didn't DEAL with, and went on a trip to the Caribeans. She met a man, who promised her he would marry her, and they ended up sleeping together several times. The day, she looked for him everywhere, and went in the bathroom. She seen a little casket with a note that said, "Welcome to the wonderful world of Aids."

It takes ONE time. If your faith isn't in God, then.. you die from it.

By the way. Fear is FAITH in what the devil says. It's just funny to me how people will believe Satan more than they will God.

Pray for Israel.

-Shalom. (May the peace of God be with you). Shelly, Daughter of the MOST HIGH God. Hallelujah!

First, I greatly sympathise with that girl. My god, that is such a horrible nightmare. Nothing to do with why premarital sex is evil, but still. That's a heartbreak. What a bastard. Well anyway.

God will write his law into our hearts.

My heart doesn't tell me it's wrong. I know you will claim I'm just immature, or letting my desires consume me, but it's really not the case. It doesn't hurt anyone and its healthy. You only feel guilty because it has been doctrined into you. Like how sex before marriage is wrong, contraception is wrong, and masturbation.

You're starting from the assertion and assumption that your religion is right. From that point, you can argue anything.

Objectively prove they are wrong. I know its hard, if you are a creationist or anti-gay rights person you are used to proving everything by God's word that you subjectively translate. It is subjective because every christian reads it differently. God didn't explain things clearly in his book or in our hearts, apparently.

Oh, my bad, that's just everyone else. You have it right, of course. Everyone else is just reading it wrong, or not understanding God's voice, or immature. You are the special right one.

So please, show me objectively how it causes harm.

The kindoms of Heavan and Hell are spiritual states at a given time, not some TV bullshit that says its a place you go when you physically die right?

Well, from what I've been able to tell, we get given new bodies, and our old, imperfect bodies are left at the grave.

But it seems that we'll be able to enjoy things such as eating... because when Jesus rose from the dead, he was able to eat.

I'm scared of what heaven will be like, but Jesus apparently described it like a park for humans. Something entertaining, anyway. I just hope it really is great and a truley wonderful place to be.. I use to get in this whole brainwashed type heaven thinking.

The road to heaven may be a small one.. But get real.. If everyone who sinned is going to hell... I'm guessing about 1 person every billion years is going to heaven. Must be a small place!

I really hate these people who scare people in to Christianity. So many people give Christianity a bad name. I dislike these Christian programs too.

Here's me.. I believe in God.. I believe in Jesus.. I pray every night, and one of my prayers is to be forgiven for my sins. I try my best to be a good person but I often don't find this possible. I'm imperfect, and if God doesn't like imperfect, he should of made us differently. I also don't stick to a specific Christ religion.. I classify myself as 'Christian'. I keep an open mind, because frankly, I'm not exactly sure what's correct.. The bible even mentions some things from a kind of muslim faith... but perhaps God intended us to believe in the Catholic faith. So I have an open mind.

And I'll recommend some good reading material that helped me get through my serious doubting.. This guy knows how to get through to people like me: http://www.christianfaq.com



[This message has been edited by Jacobjac (edited 04-17-2006).]

No, there's no such thing as sin, and there most certainly is nothing wrong with masturbation, it is as natural and normal as eating and breathing.

quote:Originally posted by Jacobjac:

Here's my take on it.. What we're being told at the moment is that the bible doesn't specificly mention masturbation as a sin.. But sex is supposedly something to be enjoyed between man and wife.. and masturbating is essentially having sex with yourself.

And the processes leading to masturbating, such as lust and pornography is a sin.

But here's what I think.. I think masturbation actually stops people from acting upon our urges in a more serious way. Imagine a world where we all stopped ourselves from masturbating.. There'd probably be a lot more sex and rape.

And so I also think the church may have misinterpeted it, as some other things.

And if wasting sperm in a sin.. Then so are condoms and the pill.

And one other thing.. None of us are going to hell for our sins unless you apologise and ask for forgiveness (and mean it). It's pretty simple.

It's fairly annoying when Aetheists come along and go 'LOLZ... YOU CANT DO ANYTHING.. YOUR RELIGION IS SHIT'. I do what I like, other than, for example, killing a person... but I stay within my limits.. I pray every night.. and I _believe_. Why? Because there's something else out there and signs tell us it's God. I'm accepting my invitation to Heaven, thanks. It's futile to think we're here.. and that's about it. We formed out of nothing. 'Oh, oh but it's the atoms!!'.. I wonder who created atoms. Anyway... I'm getting ahead of myself.

I rediscovered christianity after going through a couple of years with much doubts.. being the skeptic I am.





OH SHIT! IT'S ONE OF THE INTELEGENT ONES... RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

quote:Originally posted by Jacobjac:

Here's my take on it.. What we're being told at the moment is that the bible doesn't specificly mention masturbation as a sin.. But sex is supposedly something to be enjoyed between man and wife.. and masturbating is essentially having sex with yourself.

And the processes leading to masturbating, such as lust and pornography is a sin.

But here's what I think.. I think masturbation actually stops people from acting upon our urges in a more serious way. Imagine a world where we all stopped ourselves from masturbating.. There'd probably be a lot more sex and rape.

And so I also think the church may have misinterpeted it, as some other things.

And if wasting sperm in a sin.. Then so are condoms and the pill.

And one other thing.. None of us are going to hell for our sins unless you apologise and ask for forgiveness (and mean it). It's pretty simple.

It's fairly annoying when Aetheists come along and go 'LOLZ... YOU CANT DO ANYTHING.. YOUR RELIGION IS SHIT'. I do what I like, other than, for example, killing a person... but I stay within my limits.. I pray every night.. and I _believe_. Why? Because there's something else out there and signs tell us it's God. I'm accepting my invitation to Heaven, thanks. It's futile to think we're here.. and that's about it. We formed out of nothing. 'Oh, oh but it's the atoms!!'.. I wonder who created atoms. Anyway... I'm getting ahead of myself.

I rediscovered christianity after going through a couple of years with much doubts.. being the skeptic I am.



sex=penis in vagina

penis in hand does not=sex

Yes. Somewhere in the bible it says It is far better for your seed to fall into the belly of a whore then on the ground(or tissue/towel/sock/pillow/bed/down the drain/you get the point).

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

It's a selfish act given the fact that instead of masturbating you could be standing in the street with a poster saving babies.

You're a despicable human being, you know that ?

I am sure your Methodist pastor (who is probably a woman) would be proud of you !

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

My heart doesn't tell me it's wrong. I know you will claim I'm just immature, or letting my desires consume me, but it's really not the case.

That IS the case, because one of the commandments we have been given is not to lust after one another.

Lusting after a woman means you have already had sex with her, in the eyes of God. If you've already had sex with her, you've 1. had sex before marriage, or 2. cheated on your spouse.

It's not the ACT that makes the sin, it's the THOUGHT.

Yes, God is in to thought crimes...because, believe it or not, it's the condition of the heart (mind) that manifests into action.

Action doesn't come before thought, now does it ?

quote:It doesn't hurt anyone and its healthy.

Any form of gluttony, including sexual acts, IS harmful to you.

Why do you think that is repeated over and over again throughout the Bible ?

I don't know anyone that has just masturbated once, without the intent to do so again. Most guys I have known do it at LEAST once a day.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be in bondage to something that ridiculously trivial. You simply lack the self control to wait until you are married.

quote:You only feel guilty because it has been doctrined into you.

Or how about this: you feel guilty because God's law is written on your heart ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Like how sex before marriage is wrong, contraception is wrong, and masturbation.

The contraception issue is a Catholic thing, not a God thing.

Sex before marriage is wrong because it violates the union of one man and one woman...an institution God created for a REASON.

Masturbation is wrong because it promotes lust, self-gratification, and gluttony, all of which hinder a healthy spiritual relationship with God. These three things are sinful, and sin puts a wall between you and God. Until you repent of your sins, you cannot commune with God. This is scriptural.

quote:You're starting from the assertion and assumption that your religion is right. From that point, you can argue anything.

And you are starting from the assumption that it doesn't matter what God says, because what FEELS GOOD is ultimately most important.

You sound like a pagan.

quote:God didn't explain things clearly in his book or in our hearts, apparently.

What a copout. This tells me that you don't read the Bible, or at least haven't done so enough to know what it actually says.

God is clear: DO NOT DO THESE THINGS, FOR THEY ARE SINFUL, WHICH HURTS YOU.

Actually, in the Catholic faith, it is a sin for a male to masturbate ONLY because he is wasting seed. However a female can masterbate. This really pisses me off...

I guess you missed the memo where I said 'prove it objectively.' As in, don't just quote the bible and use your interpretations of it as fact. Prove that they are wrong and harmful to humans.

I know it is very difficult, but you are going to have to prove your interpretation of your archaic book is right.

I don't feel guilty about it, so apparently God didn't clearly write his law into my heart. Darn. What a shame. Oh no my bad, I guess I'm just [insert generic cop-out phrase here such as immature ignorant kidiot etc]. Ok, you're right. Sure. He did, he just also created me too stupid to understand it, and this is my fault. Wheweee. Gotcha.

And I didn't start from the assumption that what feels good is most important. If you are mentally ill, it may feel good to kill people, I don't know. Although, what feels good and doesn't harm anyone, is not morally wrong. Not only that, but I'm not assuming that it is more important then God, only that you don't know what God says and that you are wrong. You can't start from the assumption that you are right, that would be self righteous.

quote:Originally posted by Trojan_47:

Doesn't it degrade on your consiousness and make you lazy and cowardly?



Lol i just love the fact that your name is trojan.... thats a pissa(that means funny for you non aussies)... But for the lazy and cowardly stuff... i dont no, normally after i masterbate i wanna play gun games, it seems i have two urges, kill things and pleasure... cant wait to get into the army (thought im strait and i have a girlfriend before you start thinking of that navy shit, i said i was joining the ARMY).

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

I guess you missed the memo where I said 'prove it objectively.' As in, don't just quote the bible and use your interpretations of it as fact. Prove that they are wrong and harmful to humans.

This is a religious forum, and the OP asked if it is ok to masturbate.

Being that I am a Christian, I am going to post an opinion relevant to my faith.

I don't need to be objective. :rolleyes;

quote:I know it is very difficult, but you are going to have to prove your interpretation of your archaic book is right.

Two words: Ted Bundy.

quote:I don't feel guilty about it, so apparently God didn't clearly write his law into my heart.

Not a surprise, since you don't know Him. People who don't know Him won't feel Him. Why do you think this is a good argument in your defense ?

quote:Darn. What a shame. Oh no my bad, I guess I'm just [insert generic cop-out phrase here such as immature ignorant kidiot etc]. Ok, you're right. Sure. He did, he just also created me too stupid to understand it, and this is my fault. Wheweee. Gotcha.

Well, you could always stop being stupid, accept that you are ignorant, and educate yourself.

But judging by your maturity level, I'd say that is asking far too much at this point. Maybe a few years down the line...

quote:And I didn't start from the assumption that what feels good is most important. If you are mentally ill, it may feel good to kill people, I don't know.

If you are mentally ill, you aren't operating on the same playing field as people who aren't.

Irrelevant comparison.

quote:Although, what feels good and doesn't harm anyone, is not morally wrong.

Using moral relativism as an argument for morality is just....preposterous ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

quote:Not only that, but I'm not assuming that it is more important then God, only that you don't know what God says and that you are wrong.

Read the Bible. It's ALL IN THERE.

quote:You can't start from the assumption that you are right, that would be self righteous.

I start from the assumption that God is right, and pass it along to you. You don't like it, take it up with Him.

I'm a Catholic, I pray, i go to mass once or twice a month. But i say Masturbation is ok and is not a sin. God's cool with it.

Ted Bundy raped and murdered women because he was a sociopath. You believed that guy's explanation for it?

Where in the Bible does it say that masturbating makes you a violent sociopath? Why isn't the majority of the human race made up of serial killers?

is masturbation sin?

not always but most of the time.

Digital Saviour, how is sex between married persons any different than sex between non-married persons and sex with your hands? They all have to do with lust. Lust is an extreme sexual desire. Does sex involve extreme sexual desire? Fuck yeah, otherwise you wouldnt be doing it.

One other thing, if hyroglyphx has a wet dream because you won't give in to Satan's carnal lust and fuck his brains out, does that mean he's guilty of lust? Wet dreams are simply mental masturbation while you sleep, products of lustful dreams of carnal acts with women, or in some's cases horses.

Or does it just mean he's a normal male?

quote:Originally posted by nicky69:

I'm a Catholic, I pray, i go to mass once or twice a month. But i say Masturbation is ok and is not a sin. God's cool with it.

Scripture proof ?

"I like it, so God must be cool with it" is not a valid argument.

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

Ted Bundy raped and murdered women because he was a sociopath. You believed that guy's explanation for it?

Yes. I believe that he already had the makings for the beast he was to become, but the evolution began with soft porn.

quote:Where in the Bible does it say that masturbating makes you a violent sociopath? Why isn't the majority of the human race made up of serial killers?

There are many avenues for sin, and Ted's was just one example.

I don't know if you saw it, but there was a special on Dateline or 20/20 a few weeks back where they had a woman pose as a 13 year old girl online. The point was to catch sexual predators.

In just ONE weekend, 52 guys showed up, and a portion of them were already sex offenders.

Everywhere we look there is sex. There is a reason that violent sexual crime and sexual deviancy is on the rise.

There is a lack of value seen in monogamy, and porn is one of many reasons why.

If you can't understand how porn contributes to a complete disregard for the worth of another human being as far as sexual relations are concerned, well...*shrugs*

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

Digital Saviour, how is sex between married persons any different than sex between non-married persons and sex with your hands?[quote]

Sex is designed for two purposes: procreation, and intimacy. Both of these things are only healthy and beneficial within the will of God, because that is how He designed it.

If you don't believe in God, then this will not make sense to you.

[quote]They all have to do with lust. Lust is an extreme sexual desire. Does sex involve extreme sexual desire? Fuck yeah, otherwise you wouldnt be doing it.

Um....ok. Obvious, much ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:One other thing, if hyroglyphx has a wet dream because you won't give in to Satan's carnal lust and fuck his brains out, does that mean he's guilty of lust?

A wet dream is uncontrollable. A day dream of sex with another person is certainly a sin, as a result of misplaced lust.

quote:Or does it just mean he's a normal male?

This isn't about normal. If you want to know how a Christian is supposed to behave, I have told you. This isn't supposed to be for pagans.

If you're a Christian, do not masturbate, look at porn, or lust after anyone that you aren't married to.

Unrealistic ? Hell, yes. It's not success God is after, but obedience, so it really doesn't matter if it's an achievable goal or not. We have to try.

As a muslim i read somewhere that there is a disagreement among muslim scholars on masturbation

the first group of scholars said it is forbiden like adultary and people should be patient until marriage but it's not a great sin like adultary (they say that mohamed forbade it )

the second group says it is forbiden but because of necessity if someone reachs a point where he can't resist and may commit adultary he may try to lower the sexual tension without doing it too often (the islamic rule of less evil sin is applied)

of course Islam preaches marying at youg age and this solves all sexual problems

There seems to be a lot of people in this thread carrying a lot of guilty baggage.and sorry if I missed it but I didn't see anyone saying it was a sin if a member of the opposite sex masturbated you .if they did well accept my apologies

fullywired

O RLY digital saviour?

Aside from in the bible, where has God ever given the impression that masturbation is wrong??

Don't be so blind, follow your book if you will, but remember it was not written as a catacysm to life.

I'm digging digi's mockery of pagans, especially considering how many roots christianity has in paganism. Fascinating.

You know I never call you immature or stupid. I just post things and use logic to counter your arguments. You can make fun of me if you want, but don't expect me to respond- I'm not going down to that level.

Anyway, perhaps it is somehow unhealthy for you, I don't know. If it makes you feel guilty it most certainly is. However, I have never felt any adverse side effects, it doesn't change my opinion of women, I'm not some perverted freak, it's really just natural expression. To be honest, real women I know turn me on more then the fake, emotionless, empty women in porn.

If I masturbate, and it doesn't hurt me, and it doesn't hurt anyone else, it isn't a sin, or else God is just being arbitrary. Don't quote the bible for why it is a sin, you don't actually know what God is saying (as special and gifted as you think you are) and you could be wrong, so I'd like to know how it hurts me, in particular, or anyone else, or else why it would not be arbitrarily sinful if it was.

Mouthful.

wanking is not a sin, only noobie chritians think that, and there all gay

u know doesnt sperm come out of u even if u dont masturbate through wet dreams or just through urine

quote:Originally posted by bludstaindhands:

u know doesnt sperm come out of u even if u dont masturbate through wet dreams or just through urine

If you don't masturbate, you have wet dreams, plus, the sperm also gets absorbed into the blood stream. So, whether you masturbate or not, you waste millions of semen, even if you have sex, only one little semen is going to survive.

quote:Originally posted by Trojan_47:

Doesn't it degrade on your consiousness and make you lazy and cowardly?

Who ever said masturbation is a sin?

Open your eyes and have some common sense. Masturbation isn't wrong.

[This message has been edited by Megalodon (edited 05-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Megalodon:

Open your eyes and have some common sense. Masturbation isn't wrong.





My eyes are open, and I think it's a selfish/sinful act. Sorry I like to control and understand my egos, mr satanist. DS already owned this thread.

A big argument I see in this thread is whether or not every act must be completely selfless.

According to Fundamentalist Christianity, it has to be. According to people who enjoy their lives without pointless guilt based on abitrary rules written by an ancient tribe of Israelites, no.

Masturbating is about as harmful and hedonistic as eating M&M's when you aren't even hungry.

[This message has been edited by smallpox champion (edited 05-15-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

A big argument I see in this thread is whether or not every act must be completely selfless.

According to Fundamentalist Christianity, it has to be. According to people who enjoy their lives without pointless guilt based on abitrary rules written by an ancient tribe of Israelites, no.

Masturbating is about as harmful and hedonistic as eating M&M's when you aren't even hungry.



Harmful to what? To your body? Maybe not, but to your mind. Yes.

quote:Originally posted by coolwestman:

Harmful to what? To your body? Maybe not, but to your mind. Yes.

So suppressing sexual feelings is good for mental health?

Celibate Catholic Priests.

I'm relatively new to the world of Christianity (like a week haha), and though I've never read the bible until I started this journey, I can say that I've always held the belief that there is God and there is Jesus. That's been true in my heart since I was a kid, and through many trials that I put myself through by the age of 41, I finally understand that I can't do it alone anymore. Put in my path was a gift to help me understand and since I've started reading the Bible and getting a better picture of what God wants of us, all I can say is that my life is changing completely, and for the better. According to what the Word says to me, we are all natural born sinners. Now if you're not a believer, this topic is redundant to you, and what are you even replying to this fourm for? Simply put, God is Love and for our sins he will forgive us all if we but allow him to enter our lives through our acceptance and belief in his son Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for all our sins. An ultimate sacrifice for any parent and would you do the same? For the love of all humanity, he allowed this to happen. There is a plan he has for us all and for believing in him and living our lives through him, he will bestow upon us incredible rewards beyond our wildest imaginations. What the heck, sounds better than the misery I was inflicting upon myself for God knows how long http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) It's so very simple, so very easy. But back to the point of being natural born sinners. All we can do is the best we can and make our choices based on how it will please God. Being that we are naturally born to sin, we will fall many times along the way. We are much better practiced at impurity than we are in being pure. But in confessing our sins, or simply acknowledging them to God and allowing him to take our burdens, we can only grow more towards an eternity of everlasting Love. Personally to me, that's the best deal I've heard yet. I haven't gotten to any part in the Bible that states that masturbation is a sin, but if you release it to God and your life is for God, then he will answer that question for you. You'll just have to base your decisions on that.

Amen

A lot of Christians tend to consider masturbation to be what Onan did. For the idiots here, Onan was a little bitch who married his dead brother's wife but didn't want to knock her up, so he fucked her and then pulled out and "spilt his seed on the ground", so God killed him dead. Find it yourself, I could give a shit less about the reference. Now a lot of branches of Christianity have managed to make "Onanism" into masturbation and somehow assume that God will strike you dead if you masturbate.

Only problem is, God never says a thing about self-stimulation. (Come to think of it, he never says a thing at all in the Bible, people say what He said.)

If God was killing people for masturbation and withdrawal, there'd be a hella lot of Christians sprawled on the bathroom floors due to well-aimed lightning strikes from the Divine. So beware, you idiot wankers. Get married, but don't participate in sex, because sex involves lust, and lust is a sin worthy of the whatever-th circle of Hell.

Mr. Whatever the fuck your name is: when did Digital Savior ever own this thread? Was it the time when she admitted to partaking of lust with her husband, and thereby sinning? How's this for an idea... shut your fucking hole and abstain from wanking until you have a wet dream and participate in some of God's spontaneous combustion for spilling your seed on the ground. Little bitch.

To God's little beetle above me: What the FUCK does your personal testimony of how you found Christ to be the all in all have a god damn thing to do with the topic of masturbating. It would have been much easier for all here to have summarized your post with a sentence or two detailing how you are a retarded cunt. Kindly fuck off.

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

So suppressing sexual feelings is good for mental health?

Celibate Catholic Priests.

Not suppressing, controlling. Abusing sex creates problems.

Raping a woman is abusing sex. Jerking off is not.

I just felt a need to point this out:

quote:

And I didn't start from the assumption that what feels good is most important. If you are mentally ill, it may feel good to kill people, I don't know.



If you are mentally ill, you aren't operating on the same playing field as people who aren't.

Irrelevant comparison.



quote:

I know it is very difficult, but you are going to have to prove your interpretation of your archaic book is right.



Two words: Ted Bundy.







[This message has been edited by TheMessiahComplex (edited 05-15-2006).]

^^^ Good call.

quote:Originally posted by coolwestman:

Not suppressing, controlling. Abusing sex creates problems.

In which case it would be wrong to not masturbate, as masturbation is a release valve and a means to control the sexual desire to jump the next woman or altar boy you see and fuck the brains out of them.

If you are a catholic then yes, but for LOGICAL and PRACTICAL people, no.

The average sperm lives for 72 hours and so, seeing as millions of them die after 3 days anyways, there's nothing wrong with beating the meat, right?

Simply we sin in everything we do. If masturbation is a self centered act then it is a sin. If one believes in the Word of God, then those are the facts as laid out. It's the act of satisfying ones own needs before considering the plan of God, that is the sin. Quote the bible all you like, but as far as I'm concerned there's one message in all that I've come to believe, and that is God is first and we are not.

Oviously one needs to have belief in God and his Word if one is to believe that sin is relevant to this conversation. In other words, lack of belief should indicate that you would have no belief in sin, as it is a God concept. So why should one care?

Faith in God and his Word, no matter how it came to be written in the Bible, is a matter of spirituality. A lttle 'How To Guide' is what the Bible is and anyone can interpert it in a million different ways. Opening our heart to God is where one will find the true Word. And that is a very personal thing.

If the unknown garners fear and anger, then looking into a spiritual journey with God to overcome that would be a logical choice.

*pets the lil hamster who misinterpets my nic, that's a surprise!*

Further more.

If controlling one's sexual drive through masturbation in order to elliminate the desire to have violent sex works, then why are the Ted Bundy's of the world still running rampant? The appealing action of phsycological sociopaths is violence, not sex. Sex may be one of the ways they take control, but it is not the focus.

Anecdotal Evidence does not make a study.

I think both these identicle posts http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/005589.html are a survey by a condom company.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

I often find myself breathing air; it's undoubtedly a selfish act, but I can't help it.

Lol



I gues me and a lot of other people are going to have to explain to God the millions (If not billions) of seeds we wasted wanking it.

i still don't get why it is selfish.

Masturbation relieves stress and could, according to some scientific research, reduce the risks of prostrate cancer in men. Also, it reduces sexual frustration, which in turn reduces the urge for sexual intercourse.

Masturbation also improves sexual intercourse. Through experience with your body you get to know your erogenous zones. During sex, maybe for the first time in marriage, the man and the woman can do what arouses their erogenous zones and not have to worry about ‘did she cum?’ and ‘did he enjoy himself?’, because they’d all be doing their own part for themselves. It’d be like a dance together were you all do your own part to keep it going.

Masturbation is built into our genes. They have photographic evidence of babies masturbating in the womb. Leave a monkey, or any other animal, alone in a room long enough and it will masturbate. Masturbation is natural.

Sexual repression, on the other hand, is not natural and can lead to many psychological problems. Telling a child that masturbation is evil is CHILD ABUSE.

Also, semen goes wasted whether you use it or not because it dies after 74 hours and gets assimilated by the bloodstream. So whether it dies by being smacked against a wall or dissolving into your bloodstream, it’s the same thing in the end.

Face it, there is no pros to abstinence of masturbation and there are many cons. So get the fuck out of here with your kinky oppression, you bullshitting, sick, religious bastards!

Sin -

The disobediance of a fraudulent christian morality. Refuting the will of God and following your own instinct. What is the will of God?? Nothing but what the aristocracy of your order wants or needs it to be at the time.

Sin is not real, sin is a christian construct used to enforce control through means of a botched moral code.

quote:It’s that whole religious demeaning humanity and making them feel guilty about everything thing I reckon.

Correct.

quote:And one other thing.. None of us are going to hell for our sins unless you apologise and ask for forgiveness (and mean it). It's pretty simple.

Haha, i will not apologise for something that is not wrong - and let us remember, 'nothing is right or wrong but thinking makes it so' all of reality is subjective including morality.

quote:Because there's something else out there and signs tell us it's God.

So you are christian?? how do you know it is the christian God?? Why not mithra? Zeus?? Ra??

quote:We formed out of nothing. 'Oh, oh but it's the atoms!!'..

I am intellectually honest when i saw that i do not know or understand how we or the universe was formed - which is more than any christian can ever say - atleast we take the evidence and try to make a hypothosis...You take a hypothosis and then try to make the evidence fit. Filth!

quote:No offense, but I'm just going to tell the truth like it is

Do not ever dare to claim to tell the truth from your lieing lips. How long have christians used 'proof by power' - 'faith makes blessed: therefore it is true', you know nothing of truth and epistomology.

quote:If your faith isn't in God, then..

Faith? The deliberate and dishonest avoidance of the search for truth - as soon as you turn to faith you have lost your way - you have settled for an answer that by its very nature cannot be true... and therefore you could use faith as a criterion of truth.

The church tries to destroy everything about us that makes us truely human everything that is truely natural, the very things that make us as we are - our instincts, the church has created the idea of sin and labled each of our deepest instincts as a breach of its 'divine moral code' and therefore a sin or a seperation between man and God. Without the idea of 'sin' the church and all its deciet crumble.

quote:The kindoms of Heavan and Hell are spiritual states at a given time, not some TV bullshit that says its a place you go when you physically die right?

Haha - initially, but they will try and teach you different...if they were spiritual states inside us what power could the church have over us??

quote:If you've already had sex with her, you've 1. had sex before marriage, or 2. cheated on your spouse.

Marriage is a social construct - a piece of fucking paper... who are you to deny the natural instincts of a human being to lust???

quote:Any form of gluttony, including sexual acts, IS harmful to you.

Referring to actuality explain how?

quote:Why do you think that is repeated over and over again throughout the Bible ?

Because paul was a clever man - he tricked you didn't he?

quote:You simply lack the self control to wait until you are married.

You simply lack the self control to be responsible for your own life. You cannot accept that this is all there is - you hate this reality and that is why you succomb to the 'afterlife' - heck, that place sounds a lot better than this place doesn't it?? I wonder why...

quote:Or how about this: you feel guilty because God's law is written on your heart !

I don't feel guilty performing a natural act.

quote:The contraception issue is a Catholic thing, not a God thing.

Isn't the Catholic church supposed to represent God?

quote:Sex before marriage is wrong because it violates the union of one man and one woman...an institution God created for a REASON.

God did not create it - man created it, and therefore it is in no way transcendant. Just a social construct - sex before marriage is only wrong if you believe it to be wrong - not because someone else tried to tell you it is.

quote:Masturbation is wrong because it promotes lust, self-gratification, and gluttony, all of which hinder a healthy spiritual relationship with God.

Yet they promote a healthy spiritual relationship with yourself - considering your God is a contradiction that can not under any intellectually honest terms exist... i'll take the relationship with myself anyday.

quote:These three things are sinful, and sin puts a wall between you and God. Until you repent of your sins, you cannot commune with God. This is scriptural.

And this is where the church comes in - you need the church to repent, this is where they exert control over you... no wonder they slipped it into their scriptures.

quote:because what FEELS GOOD is ultimately most important.

If one accepts hedonism to be their moral code then what feels good to them IS ultimately right/important.

quote:You sound like a pagan.

You sound like a fuckwit.

quote:What a copout. This tells me that you don't read the Bible, or at least haven't done so enough to know what it actually says.

You believe to know what it actually says?? then you would see the hypocrisy in it's words... You would see the messages in the bible directly contradict the teachings of Jesus.

quote:Well, you could always stop being stupid, accept that you are ignorant, and educate yourself.

The hypocrisy that leaks from you is disgusting - don't you ever dare to call anyone ignorant when you willfully and decietfully disregard any intellectual honesty. I have no end of contempt for you.

quote:I start from the assumption that God is right

Still an assumption. One that you can not prove and yet still believe in - you have lost your way.

quote:"I like it, so God must be cool with it" is not a valid argument.

It is as valid as any argument you have ever put forward in defense of your beliefs. How ironic...

quote:Harmful to what? To your body? Maybe not, but to your mind. Yes.

How? I would think that the release of stress would be helpful to your mind - release some dopemines... but you obviously know different.

quote:There is a plan he has for us all and for believing in him and living our lives through him, he will bestow upon us incredible rewards beyond our wildest imaginations. What the heck, sounds better than the misery I was inflicting upon myself for God knows how long

Don't fall into the trap that there is a plan for you - that you will end up in the 'kingdom of heaven' You are just devaluing this reality by aspiring for something more - something fictional. You need to enjoy this life as much as you can - revel in your senses as much as you want, there is nothing after this.