Ok.

Jesus himself consumed alcohol, and alcohol is a deadly poison. The substance kills more then 300,000 people...a year.

Now lets look at cannabis, it is a natural herb, of the earth and has been used for 10,000 years. In those 10,000 years there is not a single reported case of a death/overdose.

Now we also can look at the almost certain fact that jesus himself used marijunaha. It was a primary ingredient in the holy annointing oil, and evidence also suggests that it was the herb responsible for the success of many of christ's alleged healings.

When christ was done being annointed, he clamed to feel an intense love and see God, well guess what? He was just bathed in 10 gallons of cannabis oil. The plant's chemicals were extracted into olive oil and became active even to skin contact. Jesus would have indeed experienced hallucinations, which would explain several of his meetings with God. Many alcoholic beverages back then were fortified with herbs and plants now known to be hallucinogenic.

So there is evidence to suggest that all these biblical visions and voices were actually phsycotic episodes and auditory hallucinations instigated by the consumption of phsycotropic substances.

But back to the point, what do you christians feel about this plant, Cannabis?

What do you feel about all the evidence that points towards Jesus's consumption of the substance?

I didn't even have to read all of that.

You're going to do what you BELIEVE.

You can show religious people out of the Word of God, what He says, and they'll say, "Well, I just don't BELIEVE that." Or, "I don't THINK He meant it THAT way." He said it like he meant it. Ya know, and if we're going to try to make sense and QUESTION what God really MEANT instead of BELIEVING, then we'll have to question John 3:16 too. Chew on this, Jesus said, "O ye of little faith," to His diciples, more than any. Yeah. That's a tough one to swallow. I heard a story of some 'PROFESSOR', who's said, he's DISCOVERED, by research that Jesus was REALLY standing on a piece of ice. (I guess Peter went to stand on the ice too, WHILE IT WAS STORMING, and it broke through. It was probably all that heat from the storm melting the ice). No, Don't BELIEVE that! Believe God! Same professor also said, he's discovered that the Moses lead Israel out of the Red Sea in water that came up to your ankles. As my Pastor said, "If that' the case, then that's an even BIGGER miracle, because that means the Egyptians drowned in ankle deep water."

On to the point..Yes, smoking marijuana is a sin. Why? 1. You body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, if you're born again. It doesn't BELONG to you. 2. The bible says to be of a SOBER mind. 3. Marijuana is classified as a WEED, and the WEEDS came with the CURSE.



[This message has been edited by HellzShellz (edited 04-16-2006).]

You sicken me.

So let me get this straight.

Let me see if I comprehend one of the basic principles of the christian religion, in relation to the hole temple of the Holy Ghost thing....



I dont belong to myself.?

Everything in moderation, my friend.

Jesus might have drank alcohol, that's probably so. He might have even smoked some marijuana or hashish. Culturally, that's just as likely.

The only real problem there is with marijuana is the pothead thing. If you're just going to smoke yourself retarded, then you might as well not do it, and you're just stupid for doing so. Likewise, if you are looking to get " a buzz, man!..." then you are still just wasting your time. And honestly, I can't think of a more valuable thing that you could have.

If Jesus drank alcohol, even became intoxicated, that wouldn't make him anything different. I know it mentions such stories in the bible, but I disregard the bible when it comes to religious (or occasionally, spiritual) questions. There's already enough bible debate without stirring up any of that here.

Do what you want. There is no such thing as a sin. God is. You are. Don't waste your life, it isn't going to last forever. Just do whatever you want, always, and do what you can to make the world a better place for yourself and others. The bible was written by other people like yourself who were just trying to figure things out for themselves, so they've no reason to have any understanding of god that is unattainable to you. You can disregard any religious dogma, and just think, and you'll know what to do.

I'm afraid I didn't read all of your post the first time 'round.

About these psychoactively catalyzed hallucinatory episodes you mention...

Have you yourself experienced things like this?

If one isn't distracted, by the "omg, i feel teh funny!!@11!" then you'll realize that you undergo a removal of your ego, which removes your subjective, utilitarian, view of objects / scenarios, and consequently, may provide you with incredible new truths and insights into those sorts of things. When dealing with matters of the metaphysical, I know of few better ways of grasping these complex ideas, at least no methods as almost instantaneous.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

Marijuana is classified as a WEED, and the WEEDS came with the CURSE.

Homeschooled much?

I know a preist who blazes, but most Christians don't.

There's no specific references in the bible towards it, however God gave us the plants to use.

However, we are also told to folow the laws of the country we live in.

However, we're also told to get closer to God.

But, the Bible says that your body is your temple. By slowing your brain down, or damaging it, you're damaging your temple, and thus- God.

I've found religious people to be overall, straight edge. I'd guess that about half as many Christians smoke as compared with teh general population, though I guess it also depends on how seriously they take their religion, their age & their gender.

Christians don't like much, I wouldn't stress. Acknowledging their petty fear of all things natural and good only encourages their hypocrisy.

I can't see how cannabis is a sin in any way from a Christian point of view either, considering it says in the bible not to abuse your body and health and cannabis isn't particularly harmful to health at all, i think it's a fair bet to say getting high is not a major sin.

Of course, millions of christians would say it is, plainly because Christianity is a system of control, and systems of control don't like free-thinking drug users.

if (the christian) god was real i'd make sure i went to hell.

[This message has been edited by -Mephisto- (edited 04-17-2006).]

Jesus never drank alcohol. "Wine" in Greek meant "fruit of the grape". Grape juice, grape wine, grape jelly.

Praytell how Jesus was supposed to save anyone if he wasn't sinless?

God made man, plants etc before free will.

Point being, no reason to add temptation in perfection.

I am sure God don`t care or he would be wrong.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Jesus never drank alcohol. "Wine" in Greek meant "fruit of the grape". Grape juice, grape wine, grape jelly.

Praytell how Jesus was supposed to save anyone if he wasn't sinless?

Praytell how drinking wine that does have alcohol in it... which it almost certainly did... constitutes a Jesus who was flawed.

BTW a glass of milk, set out for a day developes alcohol. It doesn't take much, just sugar, and liquid, and time. Yeasts are a naturally occuring organism on most fruits anyway. If you are reduced to figuring out what percentage of alcohol a beverage contains constitutes having committed a "sin," then perhaps that shows how silly the whole notion is in the first place.

Cannabis is not a weed. It is a plant. You smoke the dried flowers.

[This message has been edited by tricky (edited 04-18-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Jesus never drank alcohol. "Wine" in Greek meant "fruit of the grape". Grape juice, grape wine, grape jelly.

Praytell how Jesus was supposed to save anyone if he wasn't sinless?



Alcohol was a method of killing bateria in drinks, the wine that "jesus" and others drunk was most certainly alcoholic.

quote:Originally posted by Mellow_Fellow:



Alcohol was a method of killing bateria in drinks, the wine that "jesus" and others drunk was most certainly alcoholic.

Grape juice didnt have nearly as much bacteria in it as the water. Do some history. Water was shitty over there and thats why they drank grape juice so much.

quote:Originally posted by pengd0t:

Praytell how drinking wine that does have alcohol in it... which it almost certainly did... constitutes a Jesus who was flawed.

BTW a glass of milk, set out for a day developes alcohol. It doesn't take much, just sugar, and liquid, and time. Yeasts are a naturally occuring organism on most fruits anyway. If you are reduced to figuring out what percentage of alcohol a beverage contains constitutes having committed a "sin," then perhaps that shows how silly the whole notion is in the first place.

Alcohol, in and of itself, isn't a sin. Cholesterol is an alcohol, you know.

Wine gets you drunk. Wine (in this context) is what the Bible calls "strong drink". There are many references to the illegality of Christians and drinking, not to mention the curse mentioned in Habbakuk. Not only would Jesus been guilty of drinking wine, he would also have been guilty of serving it to others.

Also, I have never heard of someone getting drunk off straight milk. Use your head next time.

Argon is absolutely right. Gluttony, and altering your state of mind, are sins...because they harm you.

Aside from that, though, it is against the law, and God specifically commands us to follow the laws of our lands, unless they force us to disobey Him.

There is no specific provision for not smoking weed in the Bible, but there are direct commandments about refraining from using substances that alter your state of mind, form addictive habits, and breaks laws.

Do with that what you will.

Altering your state of mind isn’t always harmful, Digital.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Argon is absolutely right. Gluttony, and altering your state of mind, are sins...because they harm you.

I wouldnt go as far to say altering your consciousness is a bad thing. We go to sleep and dream every night.

There are those times which one wills to change his consciousness; taking parapsychological practices for example.

Its all about self control. When you alter your consciousness, are you in control or your mind? Are you subject to supernatural forces? etc...

how come you drink WINE in church during communion then? and you're gonna deny that jesus drank alcoholic wine . . .

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets:

how come you drink WINE in church during communion then? and you're gonna deny that jesus drank alcoholic wine . . .

Because some people take the text literally without knowing the meaning of the original words...

Yet the meaning of the literal word clearly allow for it to be an alcoholic drink.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Yet the meaning of the literal word clearly allow for it to be an alcoholic drink.

In today's vernacular, yes. But the Bible wasn't written in the last century, was it?

This is an instance of "lost in translation." With all these allegations of LIT flying about, you would think people would be more keen on this idea. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Altering your state of mind isn’t always harmful, Digital.

Anti-depressants are beneficial.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

In today's vernacular, yes. But the Bible wasn't written in the last century, was it?



No, not just in today's vernacular. "Fruit of the grape" could mean wine (what we today call wine) back then as well. So the possibility still exists that he did in fact drink wine.

You're just using circular logic to assume that he wouldn't do so.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

No, not just in today's vernacular. "Fruit of the grape" could mean wine (what we today call wine) back then as well. So the possibility still exists that he did in fact drink wine.

You're just using circular logic to assume that he wouldn't do so.

Please read my posts carefully. I point out that "wine" means grape juice, fermented wine from grapes, or grape jelly.

I also point out that Jesus could not have been sinless if He broke the commandment not to drink or serve "strong drink."

This is also historically accurate because the wedding feasts of the Jews of the time had the good juice served first and over the next few days would serve from the same pots (grape juice obviously doesnt taste good after a few days). The main guests were surprised because they comment that the best juice was saved for last.

Read it for yourself if you don't believe me.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Please read my posts carefully. I point out that "wine" means grape juice, fermented wine from grapes, or grape jelly.

I also point out that Jesus could not have been sinless if He broke the commandment not to drink or serve "strong drink."

I did read the post carefully. Neither what you said then, nor what you said now, refutes my point.

The fact still remains that the wording does allow for the possibility of it having been fermented wine.

Moreover, the rest of your argument is not valid. You assume that he is without sin in the first place, in order to call him the Messiah - which means that you assume that he didn't drink alcohol - as such, you cannot use the assumption that he is the Messiah, in order to prove that he didn't drink alcohol. It could very well be that he's not the Messiah, and was completely full of sin; therefore claiming that he was the Messiah is not an argument at all, but merely your own personal belief - a belief which you cannot use to show anything, as doing so would be circular.

quote:

This is also historically accurate because the wedding feasts of the Jews of the time had the good juice served first and over the next few days would serve from the same pots (grape juice obviously doesnt taste good after a few days). The main guests were surprised because they comment that the best juice was saved for last.

Read it for yourself if you don't believe me.

Which is meaningless since you are assuming that "good" meant best quality, and not "most alcoholic".

I'm not concluding which one it was, I am merly saying that you have not refuted the possibility of it being an alcoholic drink, because the wording does allow for it to have been fermented (alcoholic) grape juice (i.e. "wine").



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 04-21-2006).]

In that sense I must agree. I cannot prove that it was not alcoholic.

If we both believed the Bible to be true, then I would submit that Jesus wasn't a wine conneseur. Since we obviously have different views, I must submit to the former.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Altering your state of mind isn’t always harmful, Digital.

No, but it is forbidden in the Bible.

You missed the point, again. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by asthesunsets:

how come you drink WINE in church during communion then? and you're gonna deny that jesus drank alcoholic wine . . .

I've been to NUMEROUS churches in my lifetime, and never once was real wine used.

It's always grapejuice.

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

Anti-depressants are beneficial.

*sighs*

Go ahead and ignore the implication of sin here. You're supposed to be a Christian !

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

I wouldnt go as far to say altering your consciousness is a bad thing. We go to sleep and dream every night.

God created us to sleep. That is natural, and is therefore not sinful. To take something to intentionally alter your state of mind is something entirely different, which is what the Bible condemns as sinful.

quote:There are those times which one wills to change his consciousness; taking parapsychological practices for example.

I don't really think that's what the Bible is talking about...

Mind altering SUBSTANCES. Things that will impair your judgment, and leave you more susceptible to succumbing to sin.

quote:Its all about self control. When you alter your consciousness, are you in control or your mind? Are you subject to supernatural forces? etc...

See, you DO get it. Why are you bringing up parapsychological practices and sleep, then ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

"Once I was stoned." - 2 Cor 11.25

Heh...

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God created us to sleep. That is natural, and is therefore not sinful. To take something to intentionally alter your state of mind is something entirely different, which is what the Bible condemns as sinful.

I presume therefore that coffee, or more specifically caffeine, is the work of Satan? Probably got his filthy claw marks over every bean. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

...

BTW. The wine Jesus drunk most likely did have some alcohol content, mainly as a useful preservative/anti bacterial agent in a hot country.

Ironically he was probably no where near as anally retentive as you are about having a sip of the demon drink. I get the distinct impression moderation was the order of the day, rather than the poker-up-the-ass presbyterianism you observe.

quote: Why are you bringing up parapsychological practices and sleep, then ?

You may or may not know, but I am a firm believer in psychic phenomena (yes, I realize alot of people that claim to be pschic are idiots, so lets not go there).

One of the topics of this study is the reception of information. Suppose you are not in control of what you are recieving and Satan decides to take you over (for lack of better terms)?

I simply mean that parapsycological practices can leave you wide open for evil forces to manipulate you and your thinking.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

*sighs*

Go ahead and ignore the implication of sin here. You're supposed to be a Christian !

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Argon is absolutely right. Gluttony, and altering your state of mind, are sins...because they harm you.



Yet there is no proof that anti-depressants inherently harm you. In fact those who don't take anti-depressants and have depression are often at a risk of suicide.

Ophidian, you seem to think that everything which is presumed to be of God is actually just from spirits or from chemicals or from some combination of the two (and the two are most definately connected). Everything you think and say could potentially be influenced by an evil spirit just as everything I think and say could be motivated by an evil spirit... So how do we judge what is from where? Are some things not from God while other things are from the devil? Or are you one of those who believes that God and the devil are one? Where do you get your information, how do you know you can trust the spirits that speak to you? How do you know that the spirit which influences me (Yeshua, the living saviour) is not indeed the son of the living God... Just because people often mistake hallucinations for Godly spiritual experience doesn't mean that every claim of a Godly spiritual experience must be from hallucinagenics.

smoking Cannabis (and taking other hallucinagenics) is not good because it is a forced entry into spiriual planes... It opens up doors to spirits, and they come into your head and take over whether you realize it or not, they are in control and you no longer think for yourself, you become a puppet. I've been there, I thought I was in control, I thought I was learning, understanding the truth, discovering the mysteries... It was all a lie... There is one truth and it is infinite and incomprehendable... It can only be acheived by full submission to the one and only true God... Anything else is idolatry.

There are many spirits lying to you right now, ophidian.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. You think smoking weed causes you to be possessed by demons? ROFL

You’re a retard.

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

Yet there is no proof that anti-depressants inherently harm you. In fact those who don't take anti-depressants and have depression are often at a risk of suicide.

R U SHUR? (http://www.mcmanweb.com/FDA_suicide.htm)

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

Yet there is no proof that anti-depressants inherently harm you. In fact those who don't take anti-depressants and have depression are often at a risk of suicide.

No proof ?

Can you please say the same thing to the victim's of Phen Fen ?

People who are at risk of committing suicide are in need of God's salvation. God can heal all wounds. Sin is the reason for the world's heartache and dysfunction.

There is no pill to remedy sin.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

You may or may not know, but I am a firm believer in psychic phenomena (yes, I realize alot of people that claim to be pschic are idiots, so lets not go there).

No problem> I did know that about you, but I still fail to see how it relates to what I said.

quote:One of the topics of this study is the reception of information. Suppose you are not in control of what you are recieving and Satan decides to take you over (for lack of better terms)?

In what instance are we ever out of control of Satan's influence over us ?

If we are in obedience to God, and seeking His counsel in every moment, there is no chance of being "taken over".

God is more powerful than any other being we could encounter.

quote:I simply mean that parapsycological practices can leave you wide open for evil forces to manipulate you and your thinking.

Even if I were to entertain this as a plausible theory, the Bible deals with consuming chemicals, plants, etc. that alter your state of mind.

I know very well the influence demonic spirits can have over a person's mind, but they have to be invited (and I don't mean via the USPS) http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

That's all I was trying to say. Thanks for explaining, though !

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

R U SHUR? (http://www.mcmanweb.com/FDA_suicide.htm)

Great find !

quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:

I presume therefore that coffee, or more specifically caffeine, is the work of Satan? Probably got his filthy claw marks over every bean. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Coffee is by no means healthy for you, and should therefore not be consumed (if you are a Christian).

We are supposed to be taking care of our bodies (or "temples" as God calls them).

Christians should be the health nuts, not the hippies ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:BTW. The wine Jesus drunk most likely did have some alcohol content, mainly as a useful preservative/anti bacterial agent in a hot country.

So ? As with all things, anything in excess is bad for you.

They drank wine because it was tradition. They had it with every meal. Jesus didn't drink it to get drunk, he drank it because that's what they had with their meals.

quote:Ironically he was probably no where near as anally retentive as you are about having a sip of the demon drink. I get the distinct impression moderation was the order of the day, rather than the poker-up-the-ass presbyterianism you observe.

I hope you weren't talking to me...I cuold care less what kind of wine Jesus drank.

I'm not a Presbyterian. Where the hell did you get that from ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No proof ?

Can you please say the same thing to the victim's of Phen Fen ?

People who are at risk of committing suicide are in need of God's salvation. God can heal all wounds. Sin is the reason for the world's heartache and dysfunction.

There is no pill to remedy sin.

You actually make me sick, the last time I had clinical depression (notice I'm speaking from personal experience, not from some shitty book, or "It happened to a friend of a friend.") I was given a course of anti-depressants, ones you may know as prozac, and of course the effects took a bout a month to make a difference. But I can say that before this month I was attempting suicide every week, hanging, overdosing, cutting myself, trying to drown myself, I tried it all, I seeked refuge in christianity, mainly because as a child I'd been christian, but all I saw was hypocricy and unsatisfaction, no miracle cure, I turned to wicca; a bunch of fairy tales and mindless garbage. But through anti-depressants I regained my self-confidence I stopped trying to die and a genuinly became a happy person.

And now you're going to sit here and tell me that all my experience counts for nothing, just because my salvation wasn't some pathetic non-existing deity? You are a spitefull, arrogant bitch and you are not worth anybody on this website's time or effort.

Sometimes smoking weed isnt about getting a buzz or getting blitzed. Sometimes it's just about seeing things in a new light. You could almost compare it to a good book.

I dont buy into the whole "Your body is a temple so dont ingest bad things" line. Because well pretty much everything we eat is bad for us in some way. On a spiritual level why does your physical form matter?

Sure gluttony is bad. And so is doing drugs for the purpose of escaping from reality. But just eating a hamburger and smoking a joint casually with some peers at a book reading is neither.

And god cant do shit for a chemical imbalance in the brain. It's not one of those things that just fixes itself through prayer. To say that pills are useless is just ignorant.

[This message has been edited by TheLaUghiNgHeretic (edited 04-25-2006).]

Marijuana can't be ALL bad...

http://imreallysad.com/312

quote:Originally posted by jb_mcbean:

You actually make me sick, the last time I had clinical depression (notice I'm speaking from personal experience, not from some shitty book, or "It happened to a friend of a friend.") I was given a course of anti-depressants, ones you may know as prozac, and of course the effects took a bout a month to make a difference. But I can say that before this month I was attempting suicide every week, hanging, overdosing, cutting myself, trying to drown myself, I tried it all, I seeked refuge in christianity, mainly because as a child I'd been christian, but all I saw was hypocricy and unsatisfaction, no miracle cure, I turned to wicca; a bunch of fairy tales and mindless garbage. But through anti-depressants I regained my self-confidence I stopped trying to die and a genuinly became a happy person.

And now you're going to sit here and tell me that all my experience counts for nothing, just because my salvation wasn't some pathetic non-existing deity? You are a spitefull, arrogant bitch and you are not worth anybody on this website's time or effort.

Yes, I know of these very well. I have been on several anti-depressants, including Prozac and Lexapro.

**Notice I'm speaking from personal experience, not from some shitty book, or "It happened to a friend of a friend."

This is what I keep trying to tell you people. I don't think I am better than you. I haven't had an easy life, by any stretch of the imagination, and I won't be any closer to perfect by the time I die than I was the day I was born.

I don't talk about things I can't relate to personally, or don't understand. The sooner you get that, the easier our exchanges will become.

I know for a fact that these pills are 1. nothing more than a bandaid, and 2. a prevention working on the real problem.

There is no "quick fix" for depression. Sin is the cause of depression. This is not necessarily the sin of the person who is experiencing the depression.

In my case, my parents abused me all my life. This has caused a profound depression. I have been depressed for so long, I don't even notice it anymore. The one thing I have found that gives me relief from this seemingly endless tunnel of darkness is God.

When the Bible was written, there was no such thing as "pills". They had other remedies for problems, but not pills. I choose to address these emotional disorders from a spiritual standpoint, because when I am living in the will of God, I swear to you, the depression subsides.

I have never denied the fact that anti-depressants can help the symptoms of depression, but a lifelong dependancy on them just isn't the way to handle it. There is a reason for your depression, and it's not going to be dealt with as long as you gloss it over with pills.

I'm sorry if you are offended by this, but I am merely the messenger.

Shouldent god be used to us not listening to him? if i remember.. those damn kids ate the forbidden fruit or some shit from that tree.. hey maybe that was pot

quote:Originally posted by TheLaUghiNgHeretic:

Sometimes smoking weed isnt about getting a buzz or getting blitzed. Sometimes it's just about seeing things in a new light. You could almost compare it to a good book.

I smoke weed daily. There is no need to clarify this to me.

It's a sin, and I am dealing with it.

quote:I dont buy into the whole "Your body is a temple so dont ingest bad things" line. Because well pretty much everything we eat is bad for us in some way. On a spiritual level why does your physical form matter?

Whether you buy into it or not, God's word says your body is your temple, and to take care of it. Christians ought to be health nuts.

Everything we eat doesn't have to be bad for us. Start a vegetable garden. Go to a farmer's market. Shop at organic health food stores. No one is making you eat that Big Mac, and it's certainly not an excuse to smoke or do drugs.

"I eat bad, so I might as well do drugs, too."

Fallacious logic there, my friend.

On a spiritual level, however you are physically feeling will directly impact your spiritual wellness.

If you car needs an oil change, it will affect many components of the engine.

quote:Sure gluttony is bad. And so is doing drugs for the purpose of escaping from reality. But just eating a hamburger and smoking a joint casually with some peers at a book reading is neither.

Yes, actually, they are equally as bad, according to God.

I eat burgers and smoke joints all the time. As a result, I am increasing my chances of memory loss, and clogged arteries. I am also a diabetic, so eating poorly affects my health in other ways, as well.

I'm not speaking from a position of innocence here.

quote:And god cant do shit for a chemical imbalance in the brain. It's not one of those things that just fixes itself through prayer. To say that pills are useless is just ignorant.

God created the brain. He can heal it, if He so chooses.

Our pain and suffering does serve a purpose, however. If I hadn't been through all the things I have, I wouldn't logically be capable of reaching out and relating to those who are experiencing the same issues.

How does a straight edge convince a heroin addict to quit their nasty habit ? It is more effective for an ex-heroin addict to do so.

I am not suggesting that we should all be sinning, so that we can relate to one another. What I am saying is God can use our sins, though He abhors them.

Jesus chose prostitutes, tax collectors, thieves, liars, and fisherman as his companions. Think for a while about why that is.

I never said pills are useless. I am saying that they create in us a dependancy upon pharmaceuticals, and not on God, which is where our every reliance should reside.

Don't worry digital, pots effect on memory is only temporary and only effects short term memory. Although it is culmulative, so for people like us who smoke daily, it's not so temporary. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

And is it just the body is a temple aspect of the bible (which is good advice), that makes pot a sin to you, or are there other reasons?

OH MY GOD!!!! Digital Saviour SINS!!!! Hooray! I'm gonna smoke an extra fat joint to celebrate!!! Weeehoooo! Ma'am, please, please, please, I implore you, do not give up such a pleasurable vice for a God that does not exist... please.

But, how do you deal with sin? Do you just say, like, "od I'm a sinner, but the weed is just too good to quit, so deal with it already"? Cuz that would be rocking.

But then, how do you also reconcile smoking weed with not masturbating, is one a greater sin than the other?

Pot isn’t always bad to use.

I remember reading about that kid who was dying from cancer and in a lot of pain, his parents gave him pot, and he didn’t have to spend the last two years of his life in horrible physical pain thanks to weed.

You people make me sick.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Pot isn’t always bad to use.

I remember reading about that kid who was dying from cancer and in a lot of pain, his parents gave him pot, and he didn’t have to spend the last two years of his life in horrible physical pain thanks to weed.

You people make me sick.

Since you are not the child, I dont suppose you can properly speak on his behalf?

Unless legalization pushers have become unbiased in their reasning overnight or something...

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

OH MY GOD!!!! Digital Saviour SINS!!!! Hooray! I'm gonna smoke an extra fat joint to celebrate!!! Weeehoooo! Ma'am, please, please, please, I implore you, do not give up such a pleasurable vice for a God that does not exist... please.

But, how do you deal with sin? Do you just say, like, "od I'm a sinner, but the weed is just too good to quit, so deal with it already"? Cuz that would be rocking.

But then, how do you also reconcile smoking weed with not masturbating, is one a greater sin than the other?

Well, it is insulting to God to ask for forgiveness for sins you have no intention of avoiding.

I do not intend to quit any time soon, so I don't even bother asking for forgiveness. It's effects on my life are various, and I will pay the price for choosing pot over obedience.

I recognize it as a weakness, and it will change in due time.

My pot smoking is a menial issue...I have far greater demons to battle than this.

quote:Originally posted by great_sage=heaven:

Don't worry digital, pots effect on memory is only temporary and only effects short term memory. Although it is culmulative, so for people like us who smoke daily, it's not so temporary. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

Actually, I have been studying the topic of marijuana's effects on the brain, and while a lot of the research is contradictory, I did see a Discovery Channel episode on it that changed my mind.

I used to think it wasn't really all that physically harmful. Turns out, pots affect on the hypothalamus is lasting. A person will slowly become less and less able to produce "happy" hormones the more they smoke, which means they will feel a profound sense of depression when they stop smoking it.

You CAN heal from it, but it takes years.

I'm bothered by this. My memory isn't even half of what it used to be, either. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:And is it just the body is a temple aspect of the bible (which is good advice), that makes pot a sin to you, or are there other reasons?

No, it's the "obeying the law of the land" thing. If I go to jail, it's a poor reflection on God.

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

I didn't even have to read all of that.

You're going to do what you BELIEVE.

You can show religious people out of the Word of God, what He says, and they'll say, "Well, I just don't BELIEVE that." Or, "I don't THINK He meant it THAT way." He said it like he meant it. Ya know, and if we're going to try to make sense and QUESTION what God really MEANT instead of BELIEVING, then we'll have to question John 3:16 too. Chew on this, Jesus said, "O ye of little faith," to His diciples, more than any. Yeah. That's a tough one to swallow. I heard a story of some 'PROFESSOR', who's said, he's DISCOVERED, by research that Jesus was REALLY standing on a piece of ice. (I guess Peter went to stand on the ice too, WHILE IT WAS STORMING, and it broke through. It was probably all that heat from the storm melting the ice). No, Don't BELIEVE that! Believe God! Same professor also said, he's discovered that the Moses lead Israel out of the Red Sea in water that came up to your ankles. As my Pastor said, "If that' the case, then that's an even BIGGER miracle, because that means the Egyptians drowned in ankle deep water."

On to the point..Yes, smoking marijuana is a sin. Why? 1. You body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, if you're born again. It doesn't BELONG to you. 2. The bible says to be of a SOBER mind. 3. Marijuana is classified as a WEED, and the WEEDS came with the CURSE.







technically, marihuana is classified as a fruit, since it has seeds.

Breathing naturally causes the body to oxidize. You are constantly 'rusting', just from doing what you need to live. This is part of what contributes to the 'aging' process of life. Living in a very oxygen rich environment will cause an animals natural lifespan to decrese.

Therefore, by your logic, breathing is a sin, since breathing harms your body. However, you also need breathing to live. That would mean to live would be to sin.

Treating your body like a temple means doing what you BELIVE is good for your body. I personaly dont belive smoking pot will harm my body, in fact, it expands my mind and my understanding of life through chakra meditations, such as those explained by the World Mind Society.

If you belive its bad for you, then yes it would be a sin. You make it a sin though, not the plant itself.

My own reasons for beliving pot is harmless and actually benificial are not needed for trying to proove my point to you, but if you can understand what im saying, then prehaps my reasons can help ease your mind:

Pot smokers dont get cancer unless they smoke tabbaco too.

It dosnt decrease brain cells, it has been showen to increase cell growth in the frontal lobe.

Pot smoke clears the lungs of other smoke/tars.

Has been showen to help with cancers.

Potheads has been showen to outlive non-smokers in certain areas.

Smokers that also smoke pot have been showen to live about 7 years longer then a normal smoker.

My own meditations.

My own tolerance has seemed to have become a reverse tolerance.

I have never felt addicted, and have often stopped smoking for days/over weeks for no reason before i smoked ritually.

As a pot smoker, these things may have already been knowen to you. But they will also teach others.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, it is insulting to God to ask for forgiveness for sins you have no intention of avoiding.

I do not intend to quit any time soon, so I don't even bother asking for forgiveness. It's effects on my life are various, and I will pay the price for choosing pot over obedience.

I recognize it as a weakness, and it will change in due time.

My pot smoking is a menial issue...I have far greater demons to battle than this.

How do you know you will pay the price? You profess to be Christian, but then use your own misguided fundamentalism to act as judge, jury and executioner of every sinner, that is not your job, that is God's.

God will be the final judge, God decides what is right and wrong and you have no right to tell people what you think is, because according to your own bible that itself is a sin.

Too bad she never said anything of the sort.

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

Too bad she never said anything of the sort.

No but she acts as if she always knows what god will do. Now I'm an atheist but I know for a fact this is a sin.

too bad that she freely admitted that it was a sin and she was sinning by smoking it, rendering your claims of hypocrisy null and void.

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

too bad that she freely admitted that it was a sin and she was sinning by smoking it, rendering your claims of hypocrisy null and void.



No I wasn't claiming hypocrisy, I waqs trying to get her to stop acting holier than thou to everyone else, because that is also a sin.

quote:Originally posted by Ophidian Sumerian Dildo:

Ok.

Jesus himself consumed alcohol, and alcohol is a deadly poison. The substance kills more then 300,000 people...a year.

Now lets look at cannabis, it is a natural herb, of the earth and has been used for 10,000 years. In those 10,000 years there is not a single reported case of a death/overdose.

Now we also can look at the almost certain fact that jesus himself used marijunaha. It was a primary ingredient in the holy annointing oil, and evidence also suggests that it was the herb responsible for the success of many of christ's alleged healings.

When christ was done being annointed, he clamed to feel an intense love and see God, well guess what? He was just bathed in 10 gallons of cannabis oil. The plant's chemicals were extracted into olive oil and became active even to skin contact. Jesus would have indeed experienced hallucinations, which would explain several of his meetings with God. Many alcoholic beverages back then were fortified with herbs and plants now known to be hallucinogenic.

So there is evidence to suggest that all these biblical visions and voices were actually phsycotic episodes and auditory hallucinations instigated by the consumption of phsycotropic substances.

But back to the point, what do you christians feel about this plant, Cannabis?

What do you feel about all the evidence that points towards Jesus's consumption of the substance?



First off, id like to point to a few flaws in your argument.

First back then they didnt drink alchohol, they drank wine which was usualy very lightly fermented fruit juice, and it was used at partys, and special events.

Back then they didnt have cars, drunk drivers couldnt have killed anyone and well people didnt drink a lot, you have to realize that it was a social thing like me going down to the hookah bar and chilling.

Now, I have thought about this before, and there are two excuses for asking it:



A.) you feel guilty because its fun

B.) because its illegal and well, you need a moral position on it.

I have asked a few friends before, I used to belong to the church. In the bible it never mentions cannabis, But it says to respect the laws of the land.

I smoke cause, well It helps me calm down and think things throughly, It has a lot of uses. America, was founded on hemp as a product, and the declaration and all early government papers are written on hemp.

Its when people started smoking the buds that It became illegal, mostly due to jazz.

Now, the christian stand point. Dont do it because it is bad, and god forbid you actualy have an opnion.

My opnion, I like it, I enjoy smoking, and as long as I dont hurt anyone with my habits its ok.

I hang out with my little brother and sisters, I go to chruch on holidays, I go to work 40 hours a week, and im working on getting my real estate licence.

oh, and im happier than I have ever been.

Smokings bad for you because it give you cancer. Then again, I could care less if you weren't giving your money to teh drug dealers.

Weed in and of itself is not evil or bad. However, God calls us as Christians to use every moment that we walk on earth to glorify His name. I know from experiance that I am not glorifying His name when I smoke. As well, the people that you toke up with or the dealers you support when buying weed are likely not Christian, and by using drugs you are sending the message (however true or untrue) that you are more willing to spend your time selfishly than for God.

In response to the nonsense about Christ not drinking or serving alcohol:

Christ's first recorded miracle in the Gospel of John consists of Him procuring wine from water during the Wedding at Cana.

As for the idea that "wine" means grape juice or other substances: "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have BECOME DRUNK." (John 2:10)

Clearly, the wine Jesus produced as His first miracle was the sort of wine that causes drunkenness. As well, this passage parallels the true purpose of Christ's coming. The water in the Jewish purification jars (representative of Jewish law and the Old Covenant) is turned to wine by Christ (representative of Christ's blood, as shown at the Last Supper). This demonstrates that alcoholic wine is indeed consumed by Christ throughout the whole Bible.

*Note: Christ never becomes drunk in the Bible. Drunkeness is indeed a sin, as listed in many of the epistles.

Digital Savior, I was a stoner too, but GOD.

I have a story for you.

There was a meeting with believers, and a woman was crying. She was really CRYING. She was saying, "Oh God, take away snuff. Oh God, take away snuff!" Brother Hagin came up to her and said, "Sister, Do you really want God to take snuff?" She said, "Yes." He said, "Sister, God doesn't want it, He doesn't do that stuff. You have to be WILLING to lay it down for Him." She stopped crying real quick and said, "I just can't do that!"

Well, it's a mental thing. God' delivered me from Cigarette smoking to the point It isn't even a temptation for me. He's delivered me from marijuana, alcohol, the approval of people, and sex. IT'S JUST NOT A TEMPTATION FOR ME ANY MORE. Love you sister.

There has to be spiritual growth, and to overcome the little stuff, is growth. In 5 years from now, you shouldn't still be struggling with Marijuana. If God's called you to Pastor a church, you think you're going to be able to do that fighting temptations like that? No. There's a flaw in character there. It's all about decisions. The fear of God too. You have the ability to say NO. When the enemy comes at me with thoughts.. NO! but.. if.. NO! GOD SAID.. NO! NO! NO! NO!

And you don't want to risk the anointing by taking lightly the high calling of God.

So God took all the fun out of your life and sent you to church?

God kicks butt!