These are spiritual states that one can be in at a given time. Not physical places in another realm that someone goes when they physically die (like they show in cartoons) right? The New Testament said that the Kingdom of Heaven is not of this world, but is located within.

I just need feedback to know if this is something that everyone knows, cuz I'm just figuring this out now.

Is the question too obvious to answer?

There's not even any evidence proving the existence of a spirit. Why concern myself with the proposed 'spiritual states' of something that I don't even know exists?

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

There's not even any evidence proving the existence of a spirit. Why concern myself with the proposed 'spiritual states' of something that I don't even know exists?

Then wtf r u doin in this forum

I'll go to whatever forum I damn well please, thank you very much. http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/redface.gif)

Whats the answer

quote:Originally posted by Trojan_47:

Then wtf r u doin in this forum

word



I think you were pretty spot on in your opening paragraph.... I'm guessing most avid Christians know this?

The cartoon thing is of course, for kids to understand the concept

quote:Originally posted by potentgirt:

word



I think you were pretty spot on in your opening paragraph.... I'm guessing most avid Christians know this?

The cartoon thing is of course, for kids to understand the concept

Naturally, at this age we are too grown up for those childish myths.

The mind is inseperable from the brain, meaning consciousness does not survive death.

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

The mind is inseperable from the brain, meaning consciousness does not survive death.

Thus, the mind and spirit are seperate. I mentioned in another post that spirituality is not a state of mind but a state of being.

quote:Originally posted by Trojan_47:

These are spiritual states that one can be in at a given time. Not physical places in another realm that someone goes when they physically die (like they show in cartoons) right? The New Testament said that the Kingdom of Heaven is not of this world, but is located within.

I just need feedback to know if this is something that everyone knows, cuz I'm just figuring this out now.

I wrote this on a blog and it was directed at the seperation of church and state and why doing so is folly. It's wordy but it also outlines the differences between the kingdom of heaven and heaven as they are seperate. The kingdom of heaven is considered "within us" whereas Heaven is the actual place where God dwells. The kingdom of heaven is where God dwells with us in spirit. Please read on -

To understand what you are reading you have to understand how it was written. I pulled certain passages out of the bible to present the biblical precedence of both ideas. The first set is several passages that refer to "the kingdom of God and the second set refers to "Heaven" -



"First, I will quote from the movie "Jesus of Nazareth"

"A man's heart must change before a kingdom can change."

I am not certain that this is an actual bible quote as I can't find it in my translation but none the less, it is wisdom. It is wise only because we can not accept that a city of concrete buildings and asphalt roads has a soul or spirit by itself. A city is known by it's people who dwell in it. So, by those people we say this city has this kind of spirit or that kind of spirit. If a city is corrupt, it is because of the people as the earth and rocks that make up the foundations are blameless. The same goes for a city that is well to do. The buildings didn't raise themselves and multiply and prosper. It is by the people and what is in their hearts that become of these things.

The question still stands however, "Is the "Kingdom of God" and "Heaven" the same thing? I say no and yes as they are separate but the same, you can not have one without the other but both are separate. Heaven is a place and the kingdom of God is in the hearts of men therefore, Heaven is like a city that is filled by people of good character. This analogy is not worthy of describing the nature of Heaven but this is true; God's love is for everybody, but only the believers and repentant will enter into Heaven.

(All following scripture is from the NIV translation)

From the prophesy of Daniel;

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever." Daniel 2:44(NIV)

Daniel was giving King Nebuchadnezzar an interpretation of the king's dreams. It was a mention of what Jesus came to do. Jesus said a great deal about the "Kingdom of God" throughout His ministry.

"He told them, The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables." Mark 4:11 (NIV)

"I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it. Mark 10:15 (NIV)

"Jesus replied, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God. Luke 6:92 (NIV)

"Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is, or There it is, because the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:19-21 (NIV)



"In reply Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [ Or born from above;" John 3:3 (NIV)

"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth. Revelation 5:5 (NIV)

That was a picture of the "kingdom of God." There is much more scripture about it but I pulled out some key points. This leads me to this passage and to my final point about the "the kingdom of God";

"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy." Colossians 1:18 (NIV)

From my studies I have come to the conclusion that the kingdom of God is the "church" or the body of believers. In other words, those who will enter into Heaven and dwell with the almighty God forever.

Heaven on the other hand is always referred to in another way;

"Look down from heaven, your holy dwelling place, and bless your people Israel and the land you have given us as you promised on oath to our forefathers, a land flowing with milk and honey." Deuteronomy 26:15 (NIV)

Notice the passage did not say, "look down from the kingdom of God?"

"The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded." 2 Samuel 22:14 (NIV)

"Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD : I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left." 1 Kings 22:19(NIV)

Both verses in Kings and Samuel both refer to Heaven as a place where God dwells. I am directing you to the idea that "the kingdom of God" is in the hearts of man but Heaven is where God from where the Spirit comes is in Heaven.

"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16 (NIV)

"But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne;" Matthew 5:34 (NIV)

I do pray that you are beginning to see what I am talking about by now.

Men of Galilee, they said, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:11 (NIV)

"Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? Says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be? Acts 7:49 (NIV)

I will rest this thought on this passage:

"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."Revelation 21:10 (NIV)

It is plain for me to see that the "Kingdom of God" and "Heaven" are two separate things as one is Spirit and the other is dwelling. However, as both are one in the same as they complete the triune God head of Father, Son and holy Spirit, they can not be seperated but they are not the same.

How does this pertain to our time, here and now,and on this planet? We can not have "Heaven on earth" as some claim but, we can have peace, love and joy in our cities and communities. This is possible through the Spirit of "The Kingdom of God" dwelling in the hearts of man. "A man's heart must change before a kingdom can change." So our nation and it's government rest on the heart of man and by the heart of man our nation and government will stand corrupt or upright by the will of God.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-23-2006).]