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hyroglyphx
2006-04-17, 20:59
There is yet another prophecy yet to be fulfilled that most Bible scholars are not united on. Another prophecy has been given to us by the prophet Isaiah concerning Assyria (modern day Syria). I am unclear whether this happens before the rapture or after. I would like to think this happens just before as a final warning to prepare our hearts, but I can’t help to think of the explicit verses given to us by Jesus where He tells us to be ready. Jesus is going to come ‘like a thief in the night.’ He has asked that we be doing all that He commanded, which is to preach the gospel and be a light to a world so full of darkness. He has asked that we heal the sick and visit those in prison and to love even our enemies that they may come to repentance and come to His saving grace. Regardless of whether Syria’s outcome will come before or after the Rapture is inconsequential. It is Biblical prophecy, and therefore, it will come to pass. Only ‘when’ and ‘how’ are relevant and applicable questions that only the future can tell.

“An oracle concerning Damascus: ‘See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a ruinous heap. The cities of Aroer will be deserted.” –Isaiah 17:1-2

Damascus is the capital of Syria and is said to be the oldest, continuously inhabited city in human history. ‘Aroer’ is a city in south central Jordan. Both countries are staunchly opposed to Israel. I am currently unsure where this prophecy fits, as far as chronology is concerned. Nonetheless, the events described will take place. I personally feel that this event will precipatate the beginning of WWIII. With the newly acquired nuclear technology, at least in relation to all of human history, the world is constantly in fear of nuclear proliferation. Is it so impossible for us to concieve the plausibility of this given the current, hostile disposition of the Middle East? Certainly not! Ask any heads of nations today how serious of a threat this truly is, irrespective of whether they believe in Bible prophecy or not. I believe that his is the event that will unleash destruction on a level never before seen by mankind. Nations will take sides and make war with one another. When this dramatic, sequence of events takes place, the whole world take notice.

“Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him… Persia, Cush, and Phut are with them, all with shield and helmet; Gomer and all his troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all his troops-many people are with you… Sheba and Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder?’ Ezekiel 38

For those who haven’t the spiritual discernment or those that lack the knowledge of this intellectual discourse have a difficult time understanding this passage. The book of Ezekiel is a tough read, unquestionably, without the foreknowledge of some scriptual foundation. Allow me to unravel this mystery to greater serve the reader. To understand the significance of the names listed, we have to go back to the beginning. In Genesis 10, we have listed the Table of Nations. All the names listed are progenitors of nations and people groups.

Magog: (Russia) Ancient sources, both Biblical and secular are refering to the ‘Scythians,’ who are modern day Russians. Magog is Russia.

Persia: (Iran) The main ally of this unholy alliance is Persia, who is modern day Iran. We all know the problems we currently face with the Medo-Persian empire of old.

Cush: (Ethiopia) This refers to the land, south of Egypt, typically denoting Sudanese and Ethiopian lineage.

Phut or (Put): (Libya) In a connotative sense, it is usually associated with the inhabitants populated by the ancient Berbers, which include Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco.

Gomer: (Germany) Typically rendered ‘Germania,’ it speaks of the Cimmerians, which are modern day Germans, located on the Rhine and Danube valleys.

Togarmah: (Armenia) These are Turkic tribes associated with Armenia. In fact, the Armenians to this day still refer to themselves as ‘the House of Togarmah.’

Meshech and Tubal: (Turkey) These are the ancient Hittites that comprised the now defunct Ottomon Empire. This speaks of modern day Turkey and the peoples along the Caspian and Black seas.

The nations listed have all at one time or another been hostile to the United States and/or Israel. Most of the nations listed to this day are very much opposed to US/UK and Israeli interests and have expressed plans to harm either of these nations. This brings us to the other names listed in this prophecy. The next set of nations will stand with Israel and apparently will come to her aid when the invasion begins.

Sheba and Dedan: (Saudi Arabia) These were the names of cities located in what is now Saudi Arabia. It is unclear why Saudia Arabia would show contempt towards the actions of these mostly Muslim nations. In all actuality, the Saudi’s routinely have some of the highest percentages of terrorist cells in the world. We do know, however, that Saudi Arabia is also the most Westernized of all the Muslim nations and has done it’s part in thwarting terrorism. It is unclear if they will fight against the invaders or sit quietly on the sidelines. In either case, they will question the actions of its neigbors in days to come.

Tarshish: (Brittain/Spain) The theory concerning Tarshish is one that has been debated for a long time. Without going into a huge discourse, most scholars are firm on the belief that it is speaking of either Spain or Brittain, or perhaps, both. Some scholars suggest that ‘Kittim’ is Spain’s Biblical reference and that Tarshish, then, must definitely be the UK. In Ezekiel’s prophecy, there is also mention that Tarshish, and her ‘young lions’ will engage the enemies of Israel, as well. We can only logically assume that this is speaking of the branches of either Spain (Mexico, Argentina, Columbia, etc) and/or Brittain (United States, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc). This battle, however, should not be confused with the battle of Armageddon, or ‘Har-Magedon’ in Hebrew. This is only a taste of the Tribulation that will befall on all of those who remain on the earth. From this preemptive battle, ¼ of the world’s population will die, which makes us wonder if nuclear weaponry is employed for there to incur such a high number of casualties.

A question you might be asking yourselves is, “When will this happen and what will be the signs of the times?” This is an excellent question and one that was posed to Jesus by His disciples. Jesus elucidates for us in the gospel of Matthew.

“Now, as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things be and what is the sign of your coming, and the end of the age?’ And Jesus said to them,’Make sure that no one decieves you. For many will come in my Name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See to it that you are not alarmed; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet come. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My Name’s sake. And many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come. Therefore, when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the rooftop not go down to take anything from his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! Pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has never been seen since the beginning of the world until this time, nor that ever shall be again. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would survive; but for the sake of the ‘elect,’ those days will be shortened. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ! Or ‘There!’ Do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, even the ‘elect,’ if that were possible. See, I have told beforehand. Therefore, if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or, ‘Look, He is in the inner-rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightening comes from the east is visible in the west, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever a carcass is, there the vultures will be gathered. Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give off it’s light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken… But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the Flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore, you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” -Matthew 24

Jesus makes it quite clear that we do not the exact time of His coming, but that we can have an estimation based on the events that begin to unfold by watching the things that come to pass. It is with mixed feelings that I report to you that all of the things that were to pass, have passed, for the rapture of the church to happen.

Daz
2006-04-18, 02:29
Thats nice. You spent a long time typing and working all that out huh?

If you'd spent half the time it took to do that and used it to think about your book logically you'd realise it is a work of fiction with no historical value whatsoever.

jsaxton14
2006-04-18, 03:37
I can see you put a lot of time into that, and I read through the entire thing, but I had trouble following it. Not to be an ass, but if you want to be taken seriously your essay needs an introduction (including a thesis statement!!!), a body and a conclusion (which you kind of have, but it is hard to conclude without a thesis statement). Furthermore, you probably want to run such essays through a spellchecker.

With that out of the way, I remain unconvinced. I really don't know where to start. I guess the first thing I'd like you to do is use specific scripture to link the destruction of Damascus with the apocalypse.

IanBoyd3
2006-04-18, 03:53
You may not realize this, in fact I'm certain you don't, but you make a ton of assertions, jumps, and connections that don't logically follow.

All prophecies work like this.

Let me make a prophecy now.

"In the future the US will have trouble with its enemies."

"Many scores will pass before the eagle of the west flies in vengeance."

I admit some prophecies in the bible are better then others. None of them are specific, all of them involve large assertions and illogical jumps and assumptions, and they are all exceptionally vague. Beyond that, I'm sure there are tons of vague statements like the ones people quote as prophecy that haven't come true.

Maybe not though. Vague enough prophecies can usually never be unproven.

Not only that, but even if a clearly stated bible prophecy that was explicitly written as a prophecy and said so in the bible by the bible itself and it completly irreparably failed to come true and was dead wrong, no one would change their faith.

I'm sure it would've just been an 'allegory.' Right.

Anyway, someone else posted this link and I'm going to post it again because it fits so perfectly. Here.

Prophecy for Dummies! (http://winace.andkon.com/proph4dums/)

This is a great article. I read the entire thing. It fully illustrates how to make prophecies, and they come out exactly the same as the bible prophecies. Christianity has it easier too just because of the vast number of sheep followers and people whose entire lives are dependent upon believing and being right [cough hyro digi cough]. It's quite fascinating.

hyroglyphx
2006-04-19, 02:39
quote:Originally posted by Daz:

Thats nice. You spent a long time typing and working all that out huh?

If you'd spent half the time it took to do that and used it to think about your book logically you'd realise it is a work of fiction with no historical value whatsoever.

I wrote this a few months ago. I was merely trying to elucidate the point that it might be well to do with us to pay attention to Damascus. But instead, everyone played the English professor with me.

What about this peice is 'fiction with no historical value.'?

hyroglyphx
2006-04-19, 02:43
quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

I can see you put a lot of time into that, and I read through the entire thing, but I had trouble following it. Not to be an ass, but if you want to be taken seriously your essay needs an introduction (including a thesis statement!!!), a body and a conclusion (which you kind of have, but it is hard to conclude without a thesis statement). Furthermore, you probably want to run such essays through a spellchecker.

This is one part of one chapter, so my apologies if it seems jumbled to you. It makes coherent sense to me, but that's because I wrote it. I will consider that next time I post something similar.

With that out of the way, I remain unconvinced. I really don't know where to start. I guess the first thing I'd like you to do is use specific scripture to link the destruction of Damascus with the apocalypse.

Well, I wasn't expecting you to fall on your face and worship Jesus because you read one or two prophecies. Be as unconvinced as you will. However, if Damascus was destroyed completely tomorrow what it compel you to believe then?

Elephantitis Man
2006-04-19, 02:55
"Someday, Washington D.C. will be destroyed."

-Elephantitis Man, 2006

I are teh l33t proph3t. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

hyroglyphx
2006-04-19, 03:14
[QUOTE]Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

You may not realize this, in fact I'm certain you don't, but you make a ton of assertions, jumps, and connections that don't logically follow.

Perhaps you can point out maybe two or three of the tons of assertions, jumps, and connections that don't logically follow so I and everyone knows what you're talking about.

I admit some prophecies in the bible are better then others. None of them are specific, all of them involve large assertions and illogical jumps and assumptions, and they are all exceptionally vague. Beyond that, I'm sure there are tons of vague statements like the ones people quote as prophecy that [b]haven't come true.

Nostradamus and Gayce were famous for their ambiguous prophecies. Whenever they gave a direct prophecy including dates in time, they all failed. Where the Bible differs is in the sheer volume of prophecy that has never failed to fulfil itself, save future prophecy. But that's why I mentioned Gog/Magog and Damascus. We can see things taking place today where we all know that it certainly is not impossible to concieve. Lets take Messianic prophecy. There are over 300 messianic prophecies. However 'vague' some of them might be, there are hundreds that are very clear. Therefore, what are the odds that even 30 have been fulfilled with accuracy?

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/messiah.htm



Not only that, but even if a clearly stated bible prophecy that was explicitly written as a prophecy and said so in the bible by the bible itself and it completly irreparably failed to come true and was dead wrong, no one would change their faith.

When I see Biblical prophey that has utterly failed, we can discuss the ramifications.

This is a great article. I read the entire thing. It fully illustrates how to make prophecies, and they come out exactly the same as the bible prophecies. Christianity has it easier too just because of the vast number of sheep followers and people whose entire lives are dependent upon believing and being right [cough hyro digi cough]. It's quite fascinating.

You speak so assured of your judgement concerning Digital and myself. You almost disrespect us as if we have disrespected you. Have we disrespected you?

Interest
2006-04-19, 03:18
This is by far not the place to get clarity of scripture. I'll have to take deeper look at what you presented though. Maybe I can help?? don't know.

Rust
2006-04-19, 03:27
Damascus has been attacked how many times after that ridiculous "prophecy" was made? But this time is definately it!



quote:When I see Biblical prophey that has utterly failed, we can discuss the ramifications.

Start here:

http://davematson.edwardtbabinski.us/prophecy_tyre.html

Mellow_Fellow
2006-04-19, 16:03
Shut up you fucking nutter...

IanBoyd3
2006-04-19, 17:14
quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Damascus has been attacked how many times after that ridiculous "prophecy" was made? But this time is definately it!



Start here:

http://da vematson.e dwardtbabinski.us/prophecy_tyre.html (http: //davemats on.edwardt babinski.u s/prophecy _tyre.html )

Then go to the related article at the bottom, well, here's a link Failed Prophecy: Jesus predicted the end of the world within the first century 92 different times (http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/common_sense/prophecy_bible.html)

Convince you? Now let's talk.

Also, here's 30 prophecies that will never fail, because they will all happen in the future, I promise.

-The leader of America will die in office

-The river of gold will run dry

-The wellspring of all the nations will pass away

-Travel will exist beyond this dwelling place

-Controversy will grip the nations

-Canadians will fight for the motherland

-I could go on but I have to go.

My point is, anyone could make endless prophecies that could be interpreted to come true in many ways, or else could come true in the future.

I mean, right now some canadians who have german heritage could go join the german army. Would my prophecy be fulfilled? Yea. It was vague enough.

Get it? Prophecy like that is easy, for it to be considered good it needs to be direct. Jesus gave direct prophecy 92 times that the end of the world would happen within the generation. Those are 92 specific prophecies that all failed. Now you are telling me these other vague prophecies that had no specifics actually directly prophecise something they didn't mention at a non-specific date prove the bible's inerrancy?

And by the way, I don't mean to disrespect you. I mean, its true and you will admit it too, you are very dependent mentally upon being right about this. When I was christian, God was the center of my life. Turns out I was able to get by that to find the truth, but still, way back when I was just like you guys.

And yes, you do disrespect everyone. Maybe not me in particular, but 'kidiot' and other such things are condenscending and ultimately more disrespectful then what I said.

fused
2006-04-19, 17:15
I'd love to see Christians use bible prophecies to predict things BEFORE they happen, not after.

All of their prophecy can only be found when looking back, it seems.

smallpox champion
2006-04-19, 21:01
Have there ever been any biblical prophecies that have been proven INDEPENDENTLY from the Bible?