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King_Cotton
2006-04-18, 20:58
So there's this new controversy about the Gospel of Judas. From what I've heard, it claims that Judas and Jesus were in cahoots: Jesus needed Judas to turn him in so he would fulfill the prophecy and offered him salvation just for this (this is based on hearsay so if I'm wrong please correct me). The accepted Gospels claim that Judas betrayed Jesus and burned in hell.

So, if Jesus was the loving man/god we presume him to be, would he not have made a pact with Judas? Or at least warned the dude that what he was going to do would seriously fuck up his afterlife? I mean, being compassionate you think you could at least warn the guy...

So if Jesus didn't warn Judas, that means he wasn't as compassionate and all-loving as the Bible claims he was. If he did, that means we Christians have had our story wrong for thousands of years and Judas was actually a pretty good guy. Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by King_Cotton (edited 04-18-2006).]

pengd0t
2006-04-18, 22:31
Calm down there...

The Gospel of Judas has a kind of gnostic feel to it. It's more of a set of philosopical stanced accounts, told through the story of Judas, rather than a collection of myth stories meant to explain things in a way accessible to the masses.

In the Gospel of Judas, the "cahoots" you speak of goes something like this...

One day in Judea, Jesus comes up to find the disciples very serious in some sort of pious observation of some jewish custom. He sees all of this and starts laughing, because focusing on this observation of some religious rite is missing the point. Most of the disciples are bothered, some angered.

Jesus was laughing at the false piety of their worship of this personified false idea of god they had.

In response to their anger, Jesus said "Let any one of you who is strong enough stand and reveal to me the true spiritual person within." The disciples all respond, "We are strong enough!" But none of them can gather the courage to actually stand in this act, one that would be almost challenging him. None but Jusdas Iscariot, who stands eventually and says, "I know who you are, and where you came from. I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who has sent you..." and Jesus goes to him and stops him and says, "Step away from the others, and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom. It is a great and boundless realm which no eye of an angel has ever seen, no thought of the heart has ever comprehended, and it was never called by name."



The importance of this dialogue is this:

Rather than arguing with them about religious rites, Jesus asks for the perfect, spiritual person in them, the bit of god in them that sparked them to life, the bit of a person that should have the knowledge of god inherent in it, to step forward and converse with him. They say they can, but none do, none except Judas. Judas says that he truly understands the nature of Jesus and what it is that he is. Also he is doing this not as a challenge, to further some sort of argument, but humbly and modestly. And Jesus, as a result gives him a bit more prodding to further Judas's own understanding of things. It was not out of the ordinary, even customary, for jewish teachers to give some basic type of knowlege to the masses, to prod them along at very basic levels, and then give different, more specified information to those who had a higher understanding of such things.



Jesus also tells Judas that he will be the disciple who will be cursed by the others later on, but that it is still possible for him to reach the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven refers to a sort of enlightened state in which one truly understands the nature of god.

Jesus says, "You will be greater than them all. Judas, you will sacrifice the man that clothes me."

Jesus discusses that people in this world have a divine spark within them, that is set free upon death. Implying that Judas would almost be a hero for carrying out what he was going to have to do.



It could also be important to understand that, also, at the time, the person who sort of took responsibility for someone who was a wanted man, and carried out the legal exchange that took place, basically just the equivalent of filling out the necessary paperwork, would be given a small payment. The payment would be 30 pieces of silver. Judas was also the disciples treasurer, so it wouldn't be a surprise that he would probably be the one to do this.



Also, the account of Judas changes throughout the 4 other gospels in the current form of the bible. Going from the earliest account, in which Jesus simply tells Judas to go and take care of what he has to do, through some sensational elaborations on the story up to the last account which ends with a bit of a scuffle even, with Jesus ending it by saying, he who lives by the sword, shall die by it.

[This message has been edited by pengd0t (edited 04-18-2006).]