"The self-assured believer is a greater sinner in the eyes of God than the

troubled disbeliever." -Soren Kierkegaard

Think about that for awhile, Digital-Savour. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Yeah, think about that Digital-Savour.

I agree. Thankfully I am assured in my salvation through Jesus' sacrifice. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:

Matthew 7:21-23 not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."



Fred Phelps, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson are all good candidates.

The funny thing is that me and my friend were pranking TBN a week ago with the story that I was a stock broker and I was interested in the ROI for giving money to Christ. The lady on the phone told me that wouldn't happen with my attitude! Yeah, TBN can burn in hell too.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

"The self-assured believer is a greater sinner in the eyes of God than the

troubled disbeliever." -Soren Kierkegaard

Think about that for awhile, Digital-Savour. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I am God-assured, nig-nog. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

I am sure Kierkegaard is gnashing his teeth in hell for his stupidity and arrogance.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I am God-assured, nig-nog. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

I am sure Kierkegaard is gnashing his teeth in hell for his stupidity and arrogance.

You fool! Kierkegaard was a Christian. A very faithful one at that.

You should read some of his work. You might grow up and stop being such a self-righteous ponce.

quote:Originally posted by Atomical:

Fred Phelps, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson are all good candidates.

The funny thing is that me and my friend were pranking TBN a week ago with the story that I was a stock broker and I was interested in the ROI for giving money to Christ. The lady on the phone told me that wouldn't happen with my attitude! Yeah, TBN can burn in hell too.

The only good show on TBN is the one where this guy goes through the historical aspects of different Biblical times...I can't for the life of me remember what it's called, and their list of programs is too extensive for me to wade through them all.

Anyway, it goes through archeological findings and shows how they prove that the Bible is historically accurate.

You know which one I am talking about ?

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

You should read some of his work. You might grow up and stop being such a self-righteous ponce.

Alright, I stand corrected on his religious affiliations, but I hardly see how it is a measure of my maturity that I haven't read anything by him.

But now that it has been suggested, I will certainly look into his work.

Just so you know, being SURE of what God says, and relaying that to others, isn't a sign of self-righteousness.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 04-21-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Alright, I stand corrected on his religious affiliations, but I hardly see how it is a measure of my maturity that I haven't read anything by him.

But now that it has been suggested, I will certainly look into his work.

Just so you know, being SURE of what God says, and relaying that to others, isn't a sign of self-righteousness.



The face that you claim to be 'SURE' is the glaring and blatant sign of self righteousness that everyone hates in you. (Other then other self righteous fundamentalists, that is)

You are not 'SURE.' You are as ignorant as everyone on the planet, you just can't admit it. Believe whatever the hell you like, but admit that it is just a belief. I am agnostic. It just means I admit that I don't know where ignorant men claim to.

I guess every other christian on the planet who doesn't agree with you exactly on God's word in every aspect but is just as 'SURE' as you are is just self-deceived and self-righteous or immature right? You, of course, are 'SURE,' and you are special.

Give me a break.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Alright, I stand corrected on his religious affiliations

You were so quick to judge others. Even though your Bible teaches not to.

quote:The face that you claim to be 'SURE' is the glaring and blatant sign of self righteousness that everyone hates in you. (Other then other self righteous fundamentalists, that is)

You are not 'SURE.' You are as ignorant as everyone on the planet, you just can't admit it. Believe whatever the hell you like, but admit that it is just a belief. I am agnostic. It just means I admit that I don't know where ignorant men claim to.

I guess every other christian on the planet who doesn't agree with you exactly on God's word in every aspect but is just as 'SURE' as you are is just self-deceived and self-righteous or immature right? You, of course, are 'SURE,' and you are special.

Give me a break.

I agree with you totally.



[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-21-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

The face that you claim to be 'SURE' is the glaring and blatant sign of self righteousness that everyone hates in you. (Other then other self righteous fundamentalists, that is)

It would be pretty stupid to have faith without conviction, wouldn't you agree ? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:You are not 'SURE.' You are as ignorant as everyone on the planet, you just can't admit it. Believe whatever the hell you like, but admit that it is just a belief. I am agnostic. It just means I admit that I don't know where ignorant men claim to.

Nope. I have God's handy dandy How To Book. I'm all set. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:I guess every other christian on the planet who doesn't agree with you exactly on God's word in every aspect but is just as 'SURE' as you are is just self-deceived and self-righteous or immature right? You, of course, are 'SURE,' and you are special.

Give me a break.

I dunno what you guys think self-righteous means, but...I have a sneaking suspicion that you haven't got a clue.

I also love the assumptions you all come to about how I arrived here. I'm not some 17 year old kid who read a few Christian think tank websites, and now I am convinced that I have all the answers.

I've been through all the crap you guys have and then some. There is something to be said for the School of Hard Knocks. There is also something to be said for 13 years of intense Biblical studies.

The fact that I know the Bible better than ANY of you doesn't make me self-righteous...it makes me more knowledgable. That's what happens when you study things. You become more knowledgable.

The things I have survived in this life time have developed in me a sober attitude and a keen sense for the truth, in most situations. But I don't expect you to accept that as a good reason to believe what I say about God. Simply read the book.

If you think I am wrong, prove it. Attacking me personally isn't going to stop me from posting on here. It would be nice if you people would at least TRY to educate yourselves about Christianity before attacking it. Instead of attacking Christianity (which would require you to actually do some research) you take the easy road...and attack me instead.

The Christianity I present isn't MY version, it's God's. This can easily be proven by cracking open a Bible. Or going to www.blueletterbible.org (http://www.blueletterbible.org) (or something similar).

It is a ridiculous argument to say, "You're a bitch, Digital, therefore you're wrong, and so is Christianity". That sure proves a whole lot !

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

You were so quick to judge others. Even though your Bible teaches not to.

Yeah, it's a problem. I work on it everyday. I do not, and never will, claim to be perfect.

But what does that prove ? That I am a failure, or that God is ?

Every single one of you is judgmental, so it's a bit hypocritical to point fingers at me for doing the same thing.

You just don't like the message I bring. And that's ok. The Bible forewarns Christians about this, and as long as it happens, I know I am on the right track.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

It would be pretty stupid to have faith without conviction, wouldn't you agree ?

I dunno what you guys think self-righteous means, but...I have a sneaking suspicion that you haven't got a clue.

I also love the assumptions you all come to about how I arrived here. I'm not some 17 year old kid who read a few Christian think tank websites, and now I am convinced that I have all the answers.

I've been through all the crap you guys have and then some. There is something to be said for the School of Hard Knocks. There is also something to be said for 13 years of intense Biblical studies.

The fact that I know the Bible better than ANY of you doesn't make me self-righteous...it makes me more knowledgable. That's what happens when you study things. You become more knowledgable.

The things I have survived in this life time have developed in me a sober attitude and a keen sense for the truth, in most situations. But I don't expect you to accept that as a good reason to believe what I say about God. Simply read the book.

If you think I am wrong, prove it. Attacking me personally isn't going to stop me from posting on here. It would be nice if you people would at least TRY to educate yourselves about Christianity before attacking it. Instead of attacking Christianity (which would require you to actually do some research) you take the easy road...and attack me instead.

The Christianity I present isn't MY version, it's God's. This can easily be proven by cracking open a Bible. Or going to www.blueletterbible.org (http://www.blueletterbible.org) (or something similar).

It is a ridiculous argument to say, "You're a bitch, Digital, therefore you're wrong, and so is Christianity". That sure proves a whole lot !

I never said you were a bitch, and I never attacked you personally. I explained things. Don't be so sensitive. You can say agnosticism is stupid without offending me.

I have studied the bible. By the way, I love the unfounded self righteous claim that you know it more than ANY of us, although you have no way of knowing. Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean we automatically know less. Assuming we disagree because we are ignorant is self righteous.

I don't believe you have objectively studied the bible correctly because you think it is 100% correct. (see that, I gave a reason, not just an assertion, and now I am going to back it up- go and do likewise)

Since you have studied the bible more then ANY of us, you can certainly explain how both of these bible stories can be 100% accurate.

Acts 9:7 states that when Jesus called Paul to preach the gospel, the men who were with Paul heard a voice but saw no man. According to Acts 22:9, however, the men saw a light but didn't hear the voice speaking to Paul.

How can both stories be 100% accurate? Please, I would love to hear this one, since you've studied this book so much. They heard the voice or they didn't; which is it?

I'll take this one!!

Finally I can take off the kid gloves here and deal with a little truth!!

It's so much easier to work on the house when I can finally use the toolbox.

Acts 9:3-9 "As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." 7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

Acts 22:6-9 About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, 'Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?' 8" 'Who are you, Lord?' I asked. " 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,' he replied. 9My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.

You have misquoted the scriptures my friend -

Putting both in context and reading them together we see they match - flash of light, Jesus spoke, everyone heard it but did not see who was speaking.

Just because the first account doesn't mention those around him saw the light accounts for nothing. Both accounts mention they heard the sound.

Read it again - Acts 22:9 "My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me."

If they didn't understand the voice must mean they heard the voice. This is the answer to your question - there is no contradiction.





[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-21-2006).]

The bible I have in my hands says they did not hear the voice. I don't know what version you are using, I hope it isn't the NIV, because they translated a bunch of things wrong, its terrible.

But ok, I will give you a better one.

Luke 24:2 describes the tomb as open when the women arrived, whereas Matthew 28:1-2 indicates it was closed.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

The bible I have in my hands says they did not hear the voice. I don't know what version you are using, I hope it isn't the NIV, because they translated a bunch of things wrong, its terrible.

But ok, I will give you a better one.

Luke 24:2 describes the tomb as open when the women arrived, whereas Matthew 28:1-2 indicates it was closed.



Matthew:

{28:1} In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn

toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene

and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. {28:2} And,

behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the

Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the

stone from the door, and sat upon it.for the angel of the

Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the

stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Luke:

{24:1} Now upon the first [day] of the week, very early in

the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the

spices which they had prepared, and certain [others] with

them. {24:2} And they found the stone rolled away from the

sepulchre

They are correct. The two Marys saw the stone rolled away when they got there in both accounts. Matthew's account does not indicate they were physically at the tomb site before the earthquake. Therefore, there is no need to declare error.

This came out of the 1611 KJV.



[This message has been edited by ArgonPlasma2000 (edited 04-21-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

The bible I have in my hands says they did not hear the voice. I don't know what version you are using, I hope it isn't the NIV, because they translated a bunch of things wrong, its terrible.

But ok, I will give you a better one.

Luke 24:2 describes the tomb as open when the women arrived, whereas Matthew 28:1-2 indicates it was closed.



So if the scripture proves you wrong then in defence you must prove the scripture is wrong?

I checked a few translations and they all pretty much say the same thing. I'm very careful about these things. I only quoted the NIV because it is in plain english for the benefit of those who no longer speak old english.

The KJV says:

7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. Acts 9:7 KJV

9And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. Acts 22:9 KJV



You also failed to mention what bible you are using. I would like to see how it is presented in the bible you study.

Bible contradiction debates? w00t!

-----

How many men did the chief of David's captains kill?

2 Samuel 23:8-9 (King James Version)

These be the names of the mighty men whom David had: The Tachmonite that sat in the seat, chief among the captains; the same was Adino the Eznite: he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time.

And after him was Eleazar the son of Dodo the Ahohite, one of the three mighty men with David, when they defied the Philistines that were there gathered together to battle, and the men of Israel were gone away:

OR

1 Chronicles 11:11 (King James Version)

And this is the number of the mighty men whom David had; Jashobeam, an Hachmonite, the chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time.

And after him was Eleazar the son of Dodo, the Ahohite, who was one of the three mighties.

Here we see a contradiction in the number of men the chief killed. I also included the subsequent (and nearly identical) verses of both accounts to show that these haven't been taken "out of context" (as you like to say).

-----

What was in the ark of the covenant?

1 Kings 8:9 (King James Version)

There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

Hebrews 9:4 (King James Version)

4Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

When were the pot of manna and Aaron's rod placed in the ark? Kings says specifically nothing but the tablets.

-----

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 04-21-2006).]

Some Bible contradictions appear contradictory solely because of the intricacies of Bible translation. Analysis of the original languages of the Bible (Hebrew for the Old Testament and Greek for the New Testament) can solve many apparent issues. It's no different than any other textual review of translated material. All languages (including especially Hebrew and Greek) have special limitations and nuances that cause difficulty in translation. The historical context of the translation can also cause some misunderstanding.

Nope. I have God's handy dandy How To Book. I'm all set. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

No, man, that's just it. There's how many religions out there with text that claims to be the real religion, and there are people who claim to be 100% sure that that is the correct religion.



The Christianity I present isn't MY version, it's God's. This can easily be proven by cracking open a Bible. Or going to www.blueletterbible.org (http://www.blueletterbible.org) (or something similar).

You think it’s the correct version, but EVERYBODY interprets the bible differently. There are so many Christians with a different view point to yours. In fact, I showed my mum and a couple of Christian friends you posts, and there were so many places where they disagreed with you and they even called you self-righteous. I know what self-righteous means, and trust me, you’re it.

You cannot be 100% sure you have INTERPRETED the bible correctly. It is impossible to read ANYTHING objectively.

[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 04-21-2006).]

quote:self-righteous: believing in own virtue: sure of the moral superiority of your own beliefs and actions (disapproving)

Fits you down to the bone, Digital-Savour.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

The bible I have in my hands says they did not hear the voice. I don't know what version you are using, I hope it isn't the NIV, because they translated a bunch of things wrong, its terrible.

But ok, I will give you a better one.

Luke 24:2 describes the tomb as open when the women arrived, whereas Matthew 28:1-2 indicates it was closed.

I use the Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern. A Jew who happens to be fluent in both Hebrew and Greek, and enlisted the help of Aramaic scholars to translate the rest.

While the message is the same in the NIV and all the other translations, I have found the Complete Jewish Bible to be the best for various reasons.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I use the Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern. A Jew who happens to be fluent in both Hebrew and Greek, and enlisted the help of Aramaic scholars to translate the rest.

While the message is the same in the NIV and all the other translations, I have found the Complete Jewish Bible to be the best for various reasons.



Oh ok, go ahead and avoid all other posts directed at you to answer a question that I asked directly to Interest and not to you because you didn't comment on the contradiction.

You remind me of Neo. You know, the way you keep dodging everything.

Ok, I'm sorry, that was kind of mean, but I couldn't resist.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

Ok, I'm sorry, that was kind of mean, but I couldn't resist.

Don't say sorry for stating the obvious, man. :-P

Yeah, I'm still waiting for a reply, Digital.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Fits you down to the bone, Digital-Savour.

Being confident that God is right and His word is right doesn't make me self-righteous.

Defending myself against your ad hominem attacks doesn't make me self-righteous, either.

It is no surprise to me that the woman who spawned you thinks as you do, since you are surely a complete replica of her, having been under her care for many, many years.

Also, you could have totally made that up, and it proves nothing.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:



Oh ok, go ahead and avoid all other posts directed at you to answer a question that I asked directly to Interest and not to you because you didn't comment on the contradiction.

You remind me of Neo. You know, the way you keep dodging everything.

Ok, I'm sorry, that was kind of mean, but I couldn't resist.

1. I don't have to answer you.

2. I answer posts of interest.

3. I didn't actually see your post on the contradiction until now.

4. Interest already cleared the "contradiction" for you, so now I don't need to.

Grasping at straws isn't a good way to get me interested in debating with you.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Yeah, I'm still waiting for a reply, Digital.

Well, keep on waitin'. I'll get to it when I feel like it.