According to Christians God is all knowing and all powerful meaning that he knows everything and has absolutly no limits. That also means that he knows everything that is about to happen and everything that will happen in the future. So he would know the next word that I will type, he will know exactly what all the replies (if any) will say to this thread. He will also know every aspect of your future. So that means that no matter what you do everything is already planned out for you and there is absolutly nothing you can do to change the future. If you are going to loose your eye in a fight in 2010 then there is nothing you can do to change that. Does this mean that Christians believe that no matter what you do you are absolutly powerless to shape your future since every little aspect of your life is already planned out.

And if you think that Christians do not believe that their God knows the future then remember that Jesus died for all our sins that we already made and are going to make.

Does any of what I just said make anysense to anyone?

It's the old paradox between omnsicence and free-will. Every Christian who replies will try to have their cake, and eat it too, if I may be so colloquial.

It’s pretty obvious that if a God knows what’s going to happen in the future than there is only one outcome, but Christians try to deny this with ludicrous logic.

I also find it charming that there’s this God who sees everything and just sits back and watches girls get raped, children molested, men murdered, and animals skinned alive, yet supposedly helps some fat bitch on the Christian channel lose weight and write a book about how she did so.

God works in mysterious ways. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

God works in mysterious ways. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

I absolutly love that saying. My mom just broke up with her 3 year long boyfriend so she was going through some tough times and for a few days she considered to getting her false hope from religion. I ofcourse had to slap the stupidity out of her, but in those two days she used that quote plenty of times. Like her friend's husband died in a motorcycle accident a few weeks ago and my cousin, who is the same age as her friend, needs to get laid badly. So she wanted to hook them up and as shes telling me about this she says God works in mysterious ways. So God needs to take the life of one person, put atleast 25 other people through the awfull pain of loosing a loved one, leave a 25 year old girl with 2 morgages and no job, and have my cousin go through many years of miserable lonliness so that the two of them could finally meet, which btw did not work out.

It doesn't matter. You have free will and do whatever you want, just because he knows what you're going to do doesn't change the fact that you make your own future. It's not like he's influencing it by knowing it.

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:



I also find it charming that there’s this God who sees everything and just sits back and watches girls get raped, children molested, men murdered, and animals skinned alive, yet supposedly helps some fat bitch on the Christian channel lose weight and write a book about how she did so.



You shouldn't hold a diety responsible for the actions of some stupid bitch.

If God is omniscient and all-knowing, then he is not just watching us indifferently, he is controlling our environment around us.

If God is controlling our environment around us via his "divine plan", then he is controlling us, which cancels free will.

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

If God is omniscient and all-knowing, then he is not just watching us indifferently, he is controlling our environment around us.

If God is controlling our environment around us via his "divine plan", then he is controlling us, which cancels free will.

Unless you remember that we cannot prove that God exists or is omnipotent. You also cannot prove free will exists with or without God.

Therefore you must assume that free will exists, God is omnipotent, or that both factors can coincide (which I have attributed before to, as Rust puts it, as ignorance on our part).

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Unless you remember that we cannot prove that God exists or is omnipotent. You also cannot prove free will exists with or without God.

Therefore you must assume that free will exists, God is omnipotent, or that both factors can coincide (which I have attributed before to, as Rust puts it, as ignorance on our part).

Yeah, I know, but I was just arguing hypothetically. I don't think that free will and an omnipotent god can coexist.

I was just disagreeing with Christians.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:



Therefore you must assume that free will exists, God is omnipotent, or that both factors can coincide (which I have attributed before to, as Rust puts it, as ignorance on our part).

Both cannot coincide by the very fact that they are contradictory. Either we have free will, and therefore god is not omniscient, or we don't have free will.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Both cannot coincide by the very fact that they are contradictory. Either we have free will, and therefore god is not omniscient, or we don't have free will.

And what of factor Z?

What factor Z?

quote:Originally posted by KingFisher9:

According to Christians God is all knowing and all powerful meaning that he knows everything and has absolutly no limits. That also means that he knows everything that is about to happen and everything that will happen in the future. So he would know the next word that I will type, he will know exactly what all the replies (if any) will say to this thread. He will also know every aspect of your future. So that means that no matter what you do everything is already planned out for you and there is absolutly nothing you can do to change the future. If you are going to loose your eye in a fight in 2010 then there is nothing you can do to change that. Does this mean that Christians believe that no matter what you do you are absolutly powerless to shape your future since every little aspect of your life is already planned out.

There is another debate going on about this right now. It's just about flamed out but to answer your question here....

no your life is not already planned out. You have been picked by God for a predetermined place - it is your choice to go there but, God already knows where you are going.

Despite Him knowing where you are going He does not force you to go as you freely choose. His knowledge doesn't mean intervention or that you are a puppet on a string.

Despite what people think, "All knowing" doesn't equal "all controlling" - this is how free will and an all knowing God can exist.

Here we go again....

quote:

And if you think that Christians do not believe that their God knows the future then remember that Jesus died for all our sins that we already made and are going to make.

Does any of what I just said make anysense to anyone?

yes but no. Being covered by the blood of the lamb doesn't necessarily mean there was foreknowledge of all our sin. It just means all sin is covered. Unless that thought can be disputed by the bible that is? As far as I know our sin is not pre-deteremined by date and occurance.