I went to church during easter with my friend. His mom is always trying to convert me and I stay over at their house a lot and use up plenty of their food so I figure I'll go and make her think that she will be the good Christian that she is and convert me. While we were there a few people stood up and told miracles that happened to them. This one lady started out by saying there is lots of hunger, war, death, sickness, and poverty in the world. She then went on to tell a story about how she crashed her car and almost died, but God saved her. She then said its a miracle that with all those things (listed above) going on in the world God decided to watch after me. HOW HORRIBLE IS THAT?!!! There are millions of people who are dying because of hunger, war, sickness, and poverty in the world and she thinks its a fucking miracle that God decided to save her of all people and ignore the other millions. What a dumb bitch.

'Tis the way it goes. Say a plane with 100 people on board crashes. 5 survivors praise god that they're still alive. God answered their prayers! Nobody gets to hear from the 95 whose prayers weren't answered.

Or those that pray each day for 30 years and then finally one of their prayers gets answered and the other 99.9999% don't get answered and they go around praising God and calling it a miracle.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

'Tis the way it goes. Say a plane with 100 people on board crashes. 5 survivors praise god that they're still alive. God answered their prayers! Nobody gets to hear from the 95 whose prayers weren't answered.

The other 95 were athiests. :P

quote:Originally posted by kaos_ill:

The other 95 were athiests. :P

If its an American plane than 80% of them were probobly Christian.

I too went to a church for the first time in close to two years this Easter. (I figured it would be best if I just went along, rather than make a huge deal about not going... last time I make that mistake.) Don't get me wrong, I think most of the people at this church were problably good people, and they were very welcoming. What I was repulsed by was the way in which they assume that the teachings of the Bible are true. I don't believe Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead. I don't want to sing songs about it. People who choose to go to church do. Church just isn't for me.

quote:Originally posted by KingFisher9:

I went to church during easter with my friend. His mom is always trying to convert me and I stay over at their house a lot and use up plenty of their food so I figure I'll go and make her think that she will be the good Christian that she is and convert me. While we were there a few people stood up and told miracles that happened to them. This one lady started out by saying there is lots of hunger, war, death, sickness, and poverty in the world. She then went on to tell a story about how she crashed her car and almost died, but God saved her. She then said its a miracle that with all those things (listed above) going on in the world God decided to watch after me. HOW HORRIBLE IS THAT?!!! There are millions of people who are dying because of hunger, war, sickness, and poverty in the world and she thinks its a fucking miracle that God decided to save her of all people and ignore the other millions. What a dumb bitch.

God not only will bless the idvidiual but also as a nation as a whole. For those who deny God, the curse of death remains.

If you have an entire nation that rejects Him, how can God stand with them?

When it comes to the nation, they are blessed by their corporate obediance to the commandments. Otherwise, there is "poison in the well"

An example:

If there is a rural community that gets their water supply from a single well. Then one person decides to selfishly use it to wash their cloths and use it as a bathroom then the entire water supply to the village will be ruined.

So also goes the analogy of "the spirit of a city". One person can spread their poison and destroy the entire city. By poison I mean a destructive doctrine or ideology. Therin lies the reason for guarding the well spring of our heart. As it is the place were all our desires and needs stem from. If that place within us is corrupt, as it is corruptable, then so will our deeds.

God is with us everywhere we are and would like nothing more for us all to be blessed with abundant pleasures in life. However, we often turn a blind eye up to Him and only when things are woefully wrong in our lives do we seek His help. As we know here in this place, some won't even seek Him at all.

He will help but, there must be repentence or correction of the disobediant life we live. You can be told all day long the right path to take - but until you listen, how can the blessings of walking that way get to you if you are on another? I refer you to the story of Jericho in the book of Joshua.

So, entire nations go hungry because of their disobediance - they can change it but, they have to change first. There is a saying that goes something like - "if you keep doing what you are doing then you will keep getting what you got."

We are not called to sit around and wait for someone to put food in our mouths. We must subdue the earth as the word is,"if you do not work you will not eat."

To sum it up, if we continue to sit around waiting for food then we will continue to have an empty stomache.

Believe in God, and by doing so - hear His word. Within His word, He will feed you what you need to then feed your body.

As for the woman who believes she was blessed by God - she believes and is among believers~ what else can be said?

Do we now see how we are blessed as a nation? Do we see why we, as those who understand, fight so hard agaist doctrines that are "poison in the well" and oppose the doctrines that brought the blessings to us from generation to generation???

I'm only seeking true logic and wisdom.





[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-23-2006).]

So God punishes those that were born into a non-christian country? and those that were born gay? Mayebe those people were born into such a horrible place that they have no reason to believe in a God since he has done nothing for them. So how about instead of giving them out bibles you give them food and water and mayebe then they can make their own decision on wether or not they want to believe in a God instead of you just shoving God down their throats.

Prove people are born gay, please.

So did you choose to be straight?

quote:Originally posted by KingFisher9:

So God punishes those that were born into a non-christian country?

No - I was saying that God can not help those who do not listen to Him. It's that sticky "free-will" issue again.

{b] quote:

and those that were born gay? Mayebe those people were born into such a horrible place that they have no reason to believe in a God since he has done nothing for them.[/b]

Life is not just nothing. We live and breath by the grace of God. We were given a heart beat and breath. This is not somethiing we obtained for oursleves. God gave us the earth for our needs. God gave us the ability to create things. God gave us everything we have, even the ground you walk on. Now with your outstretched hands, what else can God give you?

quote:

So how about instead of giving them out bibles you give them food and water and mayebe then they can make their own decision on wether or not they want to believe in a God instead of you just shoving God down their throats.

That is being done around the globe my friend. I don't know how you came to your view of things but, the Christian mission does do these things.

You are the reason why it is so hard to argue with Christians because to anything you say they can respond with God did it and thats good enough for them. Have you ever thought that mayebe all the people living in poverty would rather not have been born at all? So God is punishing them?

quote:Originally posted by KingFisher9:

You are the reason why it is so hard to argue with Christians because to anything you say they can respond with God did it and thats good enough for them. Have you ever thought that mayebe all the people living in poverty would rather not have been born at all? So God is punishing them?

You have misunderstood me...

I was portraying an example of cause and effect. Not that God did it but, because these people have done it by not doing it in one way or another. The problem is much deeper then seeing starving people and how come God or anybody else is giving them a bowl of rice.

Or in other words...they have either over populated their land and now face the consequence of shortage or they have not learned how to use the resources available to them.

There is a doctrine that prevents these things from happening. If I tie into what I was saying in the thread about condoms, then you'll see what I'm talking about here as well.

The rest you will not believe nor accept so I'll stop here.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-24-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

So did you choose to be straight?

We're all born straight, as God designed.

God knows what's best..

i dont quite know how to answer it.

but if you created something, you know what's best..

if you have a dog, and he is extremely sick.. would you have it put down, or would you want it to live burdened?

God works in mysterious ways..

our logic cannot identify his ways..

Pain is God's megaphone to rouse a deaf world - c.s. lewis.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

We're all born straight, as God designed.

We're also all born white, and then some of us turn black. Does that mean black people are the work of the devil?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Prove people are born gay, please.

Prove that everyone is born straight. Please.

Dude, I went to this church meeting because they were giving out a free IPod. I didn't get the IPod http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif), and the church service sucked. Do you know what they tried to tell me? They said that the reason why there is death and disease in this world is because God is punishing us for our sins. I laughed pretty hard with my atheist friend who came along for the IPod. See, up untill now, I always thought that viruses attacked our cells and caused our cells to become hosts to more viruses, that eventually killed the cell, and repeated the process untill they destroyed our body. Boy, was I wrong! They also tried to imply that if I believe in Jesus Christ, I will go to paradise. Wow! All this time I thought that when my body dies, i decompose into the earth after they bury my corpse! Wow, I guess I don't know so much after all.

Consider your heart kingfisher, what was your intention in starting this thread? was it out of love? Search yourself, don't settle for a mediocre anser, thinking that you are doing good by pointing out someone elses fault so that we can all learn to get away from her way of thinking... What you said was not out of love, you're gossiping about someone, backbiting, putting them down, belittling sqaushing them underneath your foot... Do you really think she deserves this? No she doesn't. Please examine yourself, take a second look at your behavior, is it good, is this the kind of behavior that can solve problems and make things better?

quote:Originally posted by Joshua19:

Consider your heart kingfisher, what was your intention in starting this thread? was it out of love? Search yourself, don't settle for a mediocre anser, thinking that you are doing good by pointing out someone elses fault so that we can all learn to get away from her way of thinking... What you said was not out of love, you're gossiping about someone, backbiting, putting them down, belittling sqaushing them underneath your foot... Do you really think she deserves this? No she doesn't. Please examine yourself, take a second look at your behavior, is it good, is this the kind of behavior that can solve problems and make things better?

No my intentions were not to solve all of the worlds problems or any kind of problems by starting this thread. I was not aware that everything I do must have to solve some kind of problem. My intentions were not to make fun of the woman or make her feel bad since I don't know her and will never see her again and she will not see this thread either.

Now that I think about it the point of this thread was to point the stupidity of Christianity/Christians and hopefully steer some people the right way away from Christianity and all religion.

[This message has been edited by KingFisher9 (edited 04-25-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Joshua19:

Consider your heart kingfisher, what was your intention in starting this thread? was it out of love? Search yourself, don't settle for a mediocre anser, thinking that you are doing good by pointing out someone elses fault so that we can all learn to get away from her way of thinking... What you said was not out of love, you're gossiping about someone, backbiting, putting them down, belittling sqaushing them underneath your foot... Do you really think she deserves this? No she doesn't. Please examine yourself, take a second look at your behavior, is it good, is this the kind of behavior that can solve problems and make things better?

And we, or anyone else here on totse, really gives a fuck about being loving and kind??? Dude, that was the funniest fucking thing I've read so far on totse. You're a brilliant little dickwad, it's amazing. Who says we want to make shit better? We're here to have fun. You've made my day.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Do we now see how we are blessed as a nation? Do we see why we, as those who understand, fight so hard agaist doctrines that are "poison in the well" and oppose the doctrines that brought the blessings to us from generation to generation???

I'm only seeking true logic and wisdom.



And just where the fuck do you get the idea that your nation is blessed by God?? Did God tell you that himself? Or did he make it manifest through signs and wonders? Or possibly the voice in your head revealed one of God's indescribably deep truths to you, and you chose to call it a prophecy or some other such nonsense.

quote:Originally posted by KingFisher9:

Now that I think about it the point of this thread was to point the stupidity of Christianity/Christians and hopefully steer some people the right way away from Christianity and all religion.

[/B]

so you are trying to solve a problem...

Well it wasn't my original intention, but sure.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

And just where the fuck do you get the idea that your nation is blessed by God??

Because, it all lines up. An entire nation of those who follow the ways of the death will not prosper or persevere. It is the outcome of living a certain way that testifies to God's blessings.

quote:

Did God tell you that himself?

Not by voice but by understanding His word. He speaks through Truth of consequence and outcomes. That is where He is found. If that is not clear then I will be more direct. Making "right" decisions doesn't always establish a "right" outcome - but, more often then not the soul of a man remains intact and upright beyond the consequence. It is there where God lives and blesses those who are His. Enduring the bad to the end despite all things is where God is waiting to bless all those who meet Him there.

quote:

Or did he make it manifest through signs and wonders?

To be consistent with what I said above, yes.

quote:

Or possibly the voice in your head revealed one of God's indescribably deep truths to you, and you chose to call it a prophecy or some other such nonsense.

It is already been stated at one time that God speaks to our hearts. It's the one that speaks to our head we need to be wary of.

Yes, everyone with a rational mind can see Christians are stupid fucks.

Some can be nice though...but still stupid.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Because, it all lines up. An entire nation of those who follow the ways of the death will not prosper or persevere. It is the outcome of living a certain way that testifies to God's blessings.

Is it God who chooses, or is it simply natural that those who destroy eventually overreach themselves and are in turn destroyed.

You say that America is one of the blessed countries, and yet, if "ways of death" mean killing people, America has been following the "ways of the death" for a pretty LONG time. If it means disobeying God's laws in the Bible, America has let go of plenty of the religious morals and traditions that bound them. Sex, a supposedly evil thing, is commonplace in the States, in most non-Islamic cultures, actually. Drugs. Alcohol. Athiesm. Wearing uncoservative clothing. Disrespecting one's parents. Those are all ways of death aren't they?

How do you figure God blesses America, when it could simply be that America is a great country with fucked-up governments?

quote:

Not by voice but by understanding His word. He speaks through Truth of consequence and outcomes. That is where He is found. If that is not clear then I will be more direct. Making "right" decisions doesn't always establish a "right" outcome - but, more often then not the soul of a man remains intact and upright beyond the consequence.

God is the law of cause and effect? I think I'll build a shrine to 'cause and effect' and worship them, maybe even incense and candles will appease them.



quote:It is there where God lives and blesses those who are His. Enduring the bad to the end despite all things is where God is waiting to bless all those who meet Him there.

Or it simply proves that some are strong enough to take the bad things in life and deal with them. Their reward is in itself, in knowing that they overcame the shit life threw at them.

god is a lazy peice of shit

quote:

Is it God who chooses, or is it simply natural that those who destroy eventually overreach themselves and are in turn destroyed.

See it as you may but God is the one who established the rules of nature and the predetermined outcome. If you don't water your plants they will die as the laws will not allow the plant to live without what sustains it.

quote:

You say that America is one of the blessed countries, and yet, if "ways of death" mean killing people, America has been following the "ways of the death" for a pretty LONG time. [b][quote]

You watch too much CNN...America is not hollywood or ABC news. Much of what is presented is biased propaganda. Take a walk around your city sometime and see how "evil" people are. I guarantee the vast majority of American's are not following the "ways of death"

[b][quote]

If it means disobeying God's laws in the Bible, America has let go of plenty of the religious morals and traditions that bound them. Sex, a supposedly evil thing, is commonplace in the States, in most non-Islamic cultures, actually. Drugs. Alcohol. Athiesm. Wearing uncoservative clothing. Disrespecting one's parents. Those are all ways of death aren't they?

Most certainly - the story of sodom and gamorah tell an intersting story - Jesus continues the story with telling us that we are the salt and light of the earth. What does this mean but salt preserves and a light is a guide. While the salt remains the people stand.

quote:

How do you figure God blesses America, when it could simply be that America is a great country with fucked-up governments?

Read the last statement again -

quote:

God is the law of cause and effect? I think I'll build a shrine to 'cause and effect' and worship them, maybe even incense and candles will appease them.



there is even consequence to this as well. It's not the first time an alter has been constructed for an idol.

quote:

Or it simply proves that some are strong enough to take the bad things in life and deal with them. Their reward is in itself, in knowing that they overcame the shit life threw at them.

The first mistake is relying on ones own strength in this world. One day you were wearing diapers and couldn't feed yourself. You will live your life out and then return to the same fate. What will your strength be then when you can't raise a fork to your mouth?

I'm not talking about going through rough seas or enduring them. I'm talking about staying on the "straight and narrow" road despite the hardships.

So when exactly was this magical time when america was a true god blessed paradise on earth? I don't remember that from history class.

Did we go wrong when we quit keeping slaves or stopped burning witches? The gods um angry - throw another virgin to the volcano!

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

So when exactly was this magical time when america was a true god blessed paradise on earth? I don't remember that from history class.

Did we go wrong when we quit keeping slaves or stopped burning witches? The gods um angry - throw another virgin to the volcano!

Do you honestly believe that those things are the height of americanism?

Errors are made and corrections followed. I would only agree with you if we still did these things. Repentence is the mark of a blessed nation. It is to be wise enough to know the wrong and correct it so that the wrong is never again repeated.

No, the height of americanism is hollywood and coca cola. I love both btw.

Some people's views about them being the chosen and the blessed is the root of everything evil in this world. The fact that they attribute their self-righteousness to God would be blasphemy, if God actually existed.

So USA is blessed from God. Where do you base this on? Is it perhaps because it is a relatively new nation with no wars fought on its soil? Is it because it stole german technology after WW2? Maybe installing and supporting dictators around the world that they need to be removed with murderous wars when they stop doing the blessed nation's bidding is a sign.

Yes, USA has been a succesful nation so far, because americans worked their ass off, because it allowed people all over the world to be a part of them and because it has been manipulating its world-power status ever since it got it. Blessings from God have nothing to do with it. If you think you are blessed for being an american, then it is no wonder you don't think twice before supporting wars against those not blessed and not christian. You are worse than the crusaders. When USA really repents, the world will be a very different place.

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:

No, the height of americanism is hollywood and coca cola. I love both btw.

Some people's views about them being the chosen and the blessed is the root of everything evil in this world. The fact that they attribute their self-righteousness to God would be blasphemy, if God actually existed.

So USA is blessed from God. Where do you base this on? Is it perhaps because it is a relatively new nation with no wars fought on its soil? Is it because it stole german technology after WW2? Maybe installing and supporting dictators around the world that they need to be removed with murderous wars when they stop doing the blessed nation's bidding is a sign.

Yes, USA has been a succesful nation so far, because americans worked their ass off, because it allowed people all over the world to be a part of them and because it has been manipulating its world-power status ever since it got it. Blessings from God have nothing to do with it. If you think you are blessed for being an american, then it is no wonder you don't think twice before supporting wars against those not blessed and not christian. You are worse than the crusaders. When USA really repents, the world will be a very different place.

So be it. You have a very "educated" view of things which I can't change or adopt. You have some strong liberal views and I can only wonder where you came to see things in this light. State university graduate?

So, let humanism rise up and clearly show it's ugly face. It's about time it stopped hiding behind religion and decieving people into believing it is God why these things happen.

Why do we blame God for the bad things in the world when it is clearly stated there is an enemy to God roaming among us who has the authority to pose as an angel of light? Or in other words, pose as a good thing?

Don't be decieved - and I quote "the greatest trick the devil has ever achieved was to fool people into believing he doesn't exist."

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

So be it. You have a very "educated" view of things which I can't change or adopt. You have some strong liberal views and I can only wonder where you came to see things in this light. State university graduate?

So, let humanism rise up and clearly show it's ugly face. It's about time it stopped hiding behind religion and decieving people into believing it is God why these things happen.

Why do we blame God for the bad things in the world when it is clearly stated there is an enemy to God roaming among us who has the authority to pose as an angel of light? Or in other words, pose as a good thing?

Don't be decieved - and I quote "the greatest trick the devil has ever achieved was to fool people into believing he doesn't exist."



I'm not american but I have american friends. I think you got some things mixed up. I am an atheist, and humanism is an atheistic point of view. No atheist or humanist blames God for anything because according them he does not exist. It is people and religion to blame. You see how easy it was for you to make humanism look bad just by mumbling about "ugly face" and a disguised devil. It is just as easy to hurt people that according to you are not "blessed". That's what religion does that's evil. Now, please don't make another post unless you have something of substance to say.

quote:Originally posted by elfstone:



I'm not american but I have american friends. I think you got some things mixed up. I am an atheist, and humanism is an atheistic point of view. No atheist or humanist blames God for anything because according them he does not exist. It is people and religion to blame.

This is what I don't get - you blame religion for the evils of the world at the same time saying it is another form of humanism. Then you say humanism is an athiest value. You can't have it both ways. If religion is man made then it is just another form of humanism. If religion is to blame for the bad things in the world then isn't it just falling right back on what I said? "The ugly face of humanism that hides behind religion."

It's about time athiests stop blaming religion for the evils of the world when in fact they are just blaming themselves. Most religions are just as humanistic and faithless as atheism. You do not know the true God but you use Him as a convienient crutch for the shortcomings of mankind.

quote:

You see how easy it was for you to make humanism look bad just by mumbling about "ugly face" and a disguised devil.

You don't think that there is any kind of wrong or evil with humanism? Of all the examples of human behavior and morale decay you don't see this? You blame it on religion and with the same breath say that religion is just a man made ideology.

You need to take a closer look at what you are saying. If religion is to blame and religion is man made then it is still humanism, right?

Like I said, humanism needs to stop hiding behind religion and reveal itself plainly so even you can see it's true face. Faith and God have little to do with dogmatic "religion" as true religion is a state of being and not a codition of following rules set down by man.

quote:

It is just as easy to hurt people that according to you are not "blessed". That's what religion does that's evil. Now, please don't make another post unless you have something of substance to say.

I'll post all day long and for good reason - by what you write I see that you're blind and do not understand what it is that has forced itself over your will.

"16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

Do you not see what this means? It is a symbol of humanism or a godless view of life. The marks described above are known as thoughts and deeds as that is what is symbolically meant by forehead and hand. If you chase after the ways of man and deny God it is the mark of the beast you will gain.

I am sure most who read this will scoff and tear at these words but be certain - humanism is the mark of the beast and the antichrist spirit. If you do not see it in your words you have placed here then there is not much more I can do.

Who says humanism is good? Who says the majority of the humans crawling on the Earth are even worthy of being believed in? They're not. Both Christianity and humanism, and most all other beliefs and -isms try to implant the belief that man, humankind is worth something. They're not. They're worthy of becoming pawns, used by those intelligent and powerful enough to realize that they're not, and then use them. People aren't worth shit.

quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

Who says humanism is good? Who says the majority of the humans crawling on the Earth are even worthy of being believed in? They're not. Both Christianity and humanism, and most all other beliefs and -isms try to implant the belief that man, humankind is worth something. They're not. They're worthy of becoming pawns, used by those intelligent and powerful enough to realize that they're not, and then use them. People aren't worth shit.

Considering, there is noone else out there to assign worth to anything but people, I don't see why we cannot assign ourselves worth. We have managed extraordinary things, we are probably the only kind of life in the universe able to comprehend it. Yeah, from one point of view we are insignificant, but it's not this point of view that will allow us to achieve anything.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

This is what I don't get - you blame religion for the evils of the world at the same time saying it is another form of humanism. Then you say humanism is an athiest value. You can't have it both ways. If religion is man made then it is just another form of humanism. If religion is to blame for the bad things in the world then isn't it just falling right back on what I said? "The ugly face of humanism that hides behind religion."

It's about time athiests stop blaming religion for the evils of the world when in fact they are just blaming themselves. Most religions are just as humanistic and faithless as atheism. You do not know the true God but you use Him as a convienient crutch for the shortcomings of mankind.

Most religions but not christianity? Do you even know what "humanistic" means?

Just because I support that religion is man-made, it doesn't give it any connection to humanism. You are talking complete nonsense. Humanism is the belief that humanity is what matters and that morality can be objectively derived from the general facets of human nature. How can it be linked to religion when it completely dismisses the supernatural?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

You don't think that there is any kind of wrong or evil with humanism? Of all the examples of human behavior and morale decay you don't see this? You blame it on religion and with the same breath say that religion is just a man made ideology.

You need to take a closer look at what you are saying. If religion is to blame and religion is man made then it is still humanism, right?

Like I said, humanism needs to stop hiding behind religion and reveal itself plainly so even you can see it's true face. Faith and God have little to do with dogmatic "religion" as true religion is a state of being and not a codition of following rules set down by man.

You don't know what "humanism" is. Look it up before you post. Try wikipedia. Until then, the above is laughing material.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

I'll post all day long and for good reason - by what you write I see that you're blind and do not understand what it is that has forced itself over your will.

"16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."

Do you not see what this means? It is a symbol of humanism or a godless view of life. The marks described above are known as thoughts and deeds as that is what is symbolically meant by forehead and hand. If you chase after the ways of man and deny God it is the mark of the beast you will gain.

I am sure most who read this will scoff and tear at these words but be certain - humanism is the mark of the beast and the antichrist spirit. If you do not see it in your words you have placed here then there is not much more I can do.

Oh dear. You really spooked me, quoting Revelations there. I can attribute anything I want as the "mark of the beast" and be as condescending and counter-productive as you are. Once more, lots of talk and no substance.

There is one thing you can do. Read more, and keep an open mind. Good luck.

quote:

Most religions but not christianity?

No, there are plenty of wayward groups who do not follow Jesus that claim to be Christians. Nobody is exempt from this.

quote:

Do you even know what "humanistic" means?



Yes, I do. Do you know what it means to follow God?

quote:

Just because I support that religion is man-made, it doesn't give it any connection to humanism.

Ok, you'll have to explain that one to me. If there is no such thing as a God and all religion is man-made then isn't it another grand scheme of humanism?

quote:

You are talking complete nonsense.

Your hiding from the truth.

quote:

Humanism is the belief that humanity is what matters and that morality can be objectively derived from the general facets of human nature.

Morale relativity is not a wise concept to follow. By the natural tendancy of mankind, we see that the only way the morale standards can go is down if man is in control of it. Take a closer look. Man only wants to be happy in his own existence void of hassles of discipline or correction. The only place this will lead people is jail or worse. The only way to prevent that is to change the moral laws the civil laws are based on.

quote:

How can it be linked to religion when it completely dismisses the supernatural?

Because, you claim it is by humanistic principles man created god and god's laws. You say there is no such thing as God so therefore it is just another by-product of man and the ever fleeting princples of morality. Never mind the natural course of cause and effect which man has no control of but just subject to.

quote:

You don't know what "humanism" is. Look it up before you post. Try wikipedia. Until then, the above is laughing material.

Humanism is a dangerous thing and is destined to control the world for certain. I hope you understand what it takes to maintain control of a city where there is no absolute morale right or wrong.

quote:

Oh dear. You really spooked me, quoting Revelations there. I can attribute anything I want as the "mark of the beast" and be as condescending and counter-productive as you are.

I agree - bigotry is only bad when people don't agree with you. However, I stand firm on this and direct you to my previous comment about atheism. I was only providing a warning to where we are headed under the banner of man.

quote:

Once more, lots of talk and no substance.

There is one thing you can do. Read more, and keep an open mind. Good luck.

Is this all you have? The you're narrow-minded defence? Don't you guys have anything new yet? How is it possible that somebody with an "open mind" can ever accuse anybody else of being narrow minded? I mean isn't the very principles of having an open mind is accepting the ideas of others? Hypocrite.



Anyway, what you really are saying is;



"Once more, I'm right you are wrong but you are the bigot and not me. I will only accept form you that you read more and forget all that you have ever experienced because you need an open mind to accept the PC "diversity" I follow. All are welcome accept dissenters.

What we mean by diversity is you have to accept the way we think before you can be accepted into our humanist utopia. Because, humans are gods and your God is dead to us. "

Good luck indeed.





[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 05-08-2006).]

People like Interest are totally incapable of rational thought when it comes to their religion. Unfortunately, since they seek to impose their twisted will on others through their religion, they have to be dealt with.

I wish I knew how to deal with them, because we know that rational disscusions won't do it, and they won't shut up about their insanity.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Yes, I do. Do you know what it means to follow God?

Apparently, in your case it means the inability to follow a rational debate.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Ok, you'll have to explain that one to me. If there is no such thing as a God and all religion is man-made then isn't it another grand scheme of humanism?

I don't know what's so hard for you to understand. Religion invokes the supernatural, humanism dismisses it. Religion claims God is the source of morality, humanism claims it is human nature. Humanism claims religion is man-made, religion denies it. How is religion, man-made or not, a "scheme of humanism"?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Your hiding from the truth.

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you with a bat.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Morale relativity is not a wise concept to follow. By the natural tendancy of mankind, we see that the only way the morale standards can go is down if man is in control of it. Take a closer look. Man only wants to be happy in his own existence void of hassles of discipline or correction. The only place this will lead people is jail or worse. The only way to prevent that is to change the moral laws the civil laws are based on.



I hope you are not suggesting we adopt the laws from Deuteronomy. Yes, man wants to be happy. Apparently, this is a bad thing for you; man should be unhappy according to God? Being happy equals being immoral for you?

You should try to get out of your mindset just a little when you are debating, so just maybe you see what the other is talking about. You just read what you want to be reading. When did I mention moral relativity? On the contrary, I specifically said that "morality can be objectively derived". Objectively means not relative. I know it's hard for you to accept that there can be an objective morality apart from God. This essay covers this topic in detail : http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/carrot&stick.html

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Because, you claim it is by humanistic principles man created god and god's laws. You say there is no such thing as God so therefore it is just another by-product of man and the ever fleeting princples of morality. Never mind the natural course of cause and effect which man has no control of but just subject to.

I must get a medal for patience here. Just because something is man-made, has nothing to do with "humanistic principles". Humanism goes back to the ancient greeks, but the creation of God's concept is way more ancient. Stop confusing atheism with humanism, they are not one and the same.

Yeah, you don't understand what humanism is because you are hostile by default to anything linked to atheism.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

Humanism is a dangerous thing and is destined to control the world for certain. I hope you understand what it takes to maintain control of a city where there is no absolute morale right or wrong.

Humanism claims there IS an absolute morality but God is not its source. You find it so dangerous because you equate it with lawlessness, hedonism and selfishness. It has nothing to do with these things. Look it up. Read.

quote:Originally posted by Interest:



I agree - bigotry is only bad when people don't agree with you. However, I stand firm on this and direct you to my previous comment about atheism. I was only providing a warning to where we are headed under the banner of man.

You stand firm because you are blind to anything outside your mindset. I said you don't know what humanism is and instead of giving me the benefit of a doubt and actually looking it up just in case, you return here and prove that indeed you stand firm on your blindness. I was actually concerned that you will come here in triumph quoting from wikipedia's article about "religious humanism" and I thought up a few replies, in vain. I can be certain you won't read the article I mentioned above, right?

quote:Originally posted by Interest:

[b] Is this all you have? The you're narrow-minded defence? Don't you guys have anything new yet? How is it possible that somebody with an "open mind" can ever accuse anybody else of being narrow minded? I mean isn't the very principles of having an open mind is accepting the ideas of others? Hypocrite.



Anyway, what you really are saying is;



"Once more, I'm right you are wrong but you are the bigot and not me. I will only accept form you that you read more and forget all that you have ever experienced because you need an open mind to accept the PC "diversity" I follow. All are welcome accept dissenters.

What we mean by diversity is you have to accept the way we think before you can be accepted into our humanist utopia. Because, humans are gods and your God is dead to us. "

Good luck indeed.

You forgot to mention how you never have any arguments. It's hard to accept a point of view when you are not giving me reasons to. This is not bigotry, it is rational thinking, something that it seems you are incapable of. I did not say you are narrow-minded because you do not accept humanism. I said you are, because you "stand firm" on your idea of humanism when it is wrong.

Having an open mind means really listening, checking things out, and being ready to either accept or dismiss. You demonstrated that you do not do that, so I am not a hypocrite for pointing that out. Unless you want to call me narrow-minded for dismissing your Revelations quote.

So what you can do now is read about humanism and actually come up with an argument of why it is bad or dangerous. Just saying it doesn't make it so. Do you understand why quoting Revelations is not an argument? Can you come up with arguments? Or will you abandon like the last debate?