Over the course of my fairly short life, my faith has changed drastically. I went from being a good little Catholic boy, then an athiest (for the record -- my parents didn't exactly 'force' me into the religion that badly, but I do believe that forcing a child into a religion increases the likelihood that he or she will reject the faith later on in life), to agnostic, to fully believing in God and Jesus without a shred of doubt. It feels like I'm getting more connected to my spirituality everyday, and I have to tell you, its great. Yeah, life ain't much better for me now than it was when I was an athiest, but life feels easier. Like I have a purpose. It's beautiful, really.

I'll never become a religious zealot, I believe everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but I do find it quite fascinating that I know understand something that baffled me for years when I was an athiest.

I could not understand how people could blindly accept that some "thing" called "God", whos existance has never been proven and probably never will be, could possibly exist.

And now I see myself on the opposite side: how could I not believe in God?

I believe faith is some invisible entity which allows us to feel one with God; to add purpose to our lives. Athiests cannot understand this. People of other faiths cannot understand this. Perhaps this is why religion has been causing such a stir in the bowl of humanity for the last few thousand years.

I want to get one thing clear at this point -- if anything I say here sounds pretentious; insinuating that Athiests are the ignorant ones... I'm not. I have no problem with Athiests. I can understand why they think what they do; I used to be one! I have no problem with Muslims, Jews, you name it.

Religion; in any way shape or form, is a path to bring yourself closer to achieving spiritual fullfillment. I don't believe that my religion is the "right" religion. That might sound very contradictory to what I've been saying this whole post, but I believe that the purpose of religions is to become closer with a 'higher power', whatever that may be.

I happened to choose the path of Christianity on the path to spiritual enlightenment.

I'd like to say something about Buddhism here -- Buddhism is the religion I respect the most.

Yet another contradiction!

Before I explain why I think that, I want to tell you my specific beliefs.

I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God, our saviour. I believe he died for our sins.

However, I do not believe the majority of the Bible to truly be a document to live your life by. But, in general, I do believe it is a very positive document; if it leads people to have happy and purposefull lives, whats the harm? And alot of the messages in the Bible are very true and valuable.

I do not believe in the Catholic Church (which I belong to.).

It is wrong for any mortal to dictate peoples lives. It is wrong to scare people into a beautiful religion. It is wrong to rape altar boys!

I believe the Church has put a stain on what is truly a beautiful religion. And I feel the beauty of the Lord, everyday now. It gives me hope; helps me make the decisions that are right for me... it's truly beautiful.

The Church has no right to assume responsibility to tell people how to interpret their own spirituality.

What I have written thus far may be blasphemy to some, but I believe the true blasphemy is dictating something as Holy as a humans spirituality.

But back to Buddhism -- please excuse any ignorance I have on the matter, I'm not claiming to be an expert.

Buddhism is the lone true peaceful religion. It does not assume its followers will follow a specific God. It does not dictate lives, it merely offers guidance. I will always have faith in the Lord and Christ, but I believe Buddhism as well is a very beautiful religion.

Any ways -- I know its been a long read. I'm getting to the point now.

What caused me to reaffirm my faith in the Lord and Jesus Christ?

The closest thing I can think of is the death of my devout Catholic Grandpa, but that was only a year ago, and I was becoming more religious a year or two before his passing.

So... all of a sudden I just reaffirmed my faith?

That sounds odd.

It would be ridiculously pretentious to assume that those who have faith in the Lord and Jesus Christ are "the chosen ones"...

But perhaps the small miracle of instilling faith into people is a result of Divine Intervention?

I feel God. I do. I believe he has sent a message to me.

Not a clear message like you read in the Bibles fairy tales; but a message none the less.

It's not like I met an angel. Or communicated directly (knowingly, anyways) with God.

But I can't help but feel that somehow, the Holy Spirit has intervened into my life and allowed me to restore my faith.

Okay... please don't judge the next few sentences. I realise they may seem crazy, pretentious, self-centered... I am in NO way saying that I have a connection to a higher power. I'm just suggesting the possibility that I may be on to something.

My belief that God reaffirmed my faith was solidified quite a bit the other night, when I was on my way home from a long night of work.

All of a sudden, dozens of ideas, possibly revolutionary ideas if they were accepted by the general public, popped in to my head. It was strange. I felt a weird aura.

*I know this is bordering on crazy talk, please bare with me*.

Then I got to thinking that maybe I should spread my religious beliefs. Nothing too big, I wouldn't go around like a missionary or anything, but rather the idea of simply writing a book outlining the reform of Christianity and finding a publisher was what I was thinking. If my reputation is ruined, and everyone thinks I'm a moron? Not a big deal. At least I put my faith out there. If I actually started a movement (on a small scale, I'm not trying to imply I'm a messiah -- seriously, all I have in mind is writing a book I feel will be beneficial), well, that's great.

Wow, that was alot of typing. If you read that, thank you.

The purpose of this post?

Partly to outline (mainly for myself) exactly where I am right now in terms of spirituality, but moreso directed towards hopefully getting people to tell me how they found God (not just the Christian God, any God!), and if they have ever communicated on any level (whether that means meeting an angel, or just having a spiritual revelation).

Lastly -- I have only posted in this forum a couple times. I'm not sure exactly what the environment is like here, but... this is totse, so to anyone planning to flame me or my beliefs: please just consider that I am not trying to impose my beliefs on to anyone, nor am I trying to offend anyone.

Thank you http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif).

*Cheers loudly for the most intelligent, understanding, realistic, down to earth christian on totse*

I'd actually like to hear some of those ideas, by the way. The ones that struck you all of a sudden. Sounds interesting.

I also have to say, you are the only kind of christian that I respect, and I respect people like that a lot.

Time for a pseudo-flame (I don't really think it's mean enough to be considered a 'full-fledged' flame).

It sounds to me like you don't think. From what you typed, you choice to reconvert seemed solely emotionally fueled.

quote:Like I have a purpose.

It's as if you couldn't find a purpose as an atheist. Can't define your own purpose, so you have to find one in the pages of a 1700 year old book.

quote:I believe faith is some invisible entity which allows us to feel one with God; to add purpose to our lives.

By having 'faith' in something, you concede that it cannot be accepted on its own merit. It's an illogical, feel-good copout.

quote:Perhaps this is why religion has been causing such a stir in the bowl of humanity for the last few thousand years.

No, religion has been "causing a stir" (not for the past few thousand years, more like several thousands of years) because people are too chickenshit to face logic and reason. Religion only serves to divide humanity.

I honestly don't think that even you know what the hell you believe. You state that you believe that Jesus died for our sins, meaning you believe in sins, and hell (thus the need for a savior). So while you might like Buddhists and understand atheists, you still believe that they will be tortured for eternity for not accepting Jesus.

If not, you're not a Christian.

You manipulate the Bible and gloss over it. It isn't a "positive document". It includes tales of god-sanctioned infanticide, genocide, slavery, sexism, incest, gangrape, and brutal murder. The biblical god kills people for things as mundane as picking up sticks on a Saturday, condones the bashing of babies against rocks, and the penalty for raping a virgin is that you have to marry her.

Far from what I would consider a positive book.

Furthermore, "it leads people to have happy and purposefull lives"? How? By telling them that they're worthless sinners, deserving eternal damnation, and it's only by the grace of the almighty, all-loving, god who cares so much for the vile and pathetic human race that he sends his kid down to pay the penalty for mankind (but he gets off after three days; he does have connections, after all)? Christianity teaches people that they're nothing without god, they're trash.

All I can say is think twice. It's not any 'god' that is making you happy. It's all you, man.

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 05-06-2006).]

Do I smell a cult leader?

Well Christianity sure does need reforming, I'd be interested to hear your views too!

I'm glad you have found meaning and reaffirmed your faith. If you ever got around to writing that book I'd be interested in reading it.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

By having 'faith' in something, you concede that it cannot be accepted on its own merit. It's an illogical, feel-good copout.

No offense, but I think most of your post is quite irrelevant, and I'm far too tired to start a long debate right now.

Anyways; I highly disagree that faith is an "illogical, feel-good copout". Faith is something you feel. It's something you live. It's with you everywhere. Illogical? Perhaps. But the meaning of faith is believing regardless of the circumstances.

Try meditation.

I'm quite happy that you are you are happy where you are and are tolerant enough to accept that not everyone will believe the same as you, but you are glossing over a few things to make everything work. Even still, so long as you are a moral person and happy, I guess it's all good.

The cornerstone, the foundation, of religion, is faith.

It is regarded as the highest virtue, yet it has nothing to do with virtue.

It can help the less virtuos and feeble minded be more virtous, but to require faith as motivation for virtue instead of virtue itself is inherently less virtous.

"And it's not just faith itself: it's the idea that faith is a virtue and the less evidence there is, the more virtuous it is. You can actually quote, well, Tertullian for example: "It is certain because it is impossible." Sir Thomas Brown, actually seeking for more difficult things to believe, because things for which there is mere evidence are just too easy, and it's no test of his faith. In order to have a test of your faith, you must be asked to believe really daft things like the transubstantiation, you know, the blood of Christ turning into wine, and stuff... That is so manifestly absurd that you've got to be a really great believer, in the class of the Electric Monk, in order to believe it..... You're actually showing off your believing credentials by the ability to believe something like that... If it were an easy thing to believe, substantiated by facts, then it wouldn't be any great achievement."

[Richard Dawkins, interview with Douglas Adams]

Now let me clarify, this is faith in God. Most people come to associate faith with other things, and every religious person who I have ever brought this up with keeps interchanging faith in virtue with faith in God, which is not true.

I don't believe in God, but...

I do have faith;

I believe there is some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for.

I believe in myself, enough so to not be capable of deluding myself for the most part. I believe in myself enough to follow my heart.

I believe that good exists because humans exist. There doesn't need to be any cosmic good, because then that good and morality wouldn't even by human, which would be dangerous. I believe it is good to be good simply because it helps other people, and if we aren't good, we all suffer.

I do have faith, and as far as I can tell, it's in all the right places.

Now, you can go back and claim that all those faiths are secretly in God without me knowing it, but that is starting from the assumption that you are right (digi, this means you).

Don't explain to me that since your religion is right, I believe in your God by believing in virtue. If your religion is right, I already know that.

Keep in mind that we are trying to find out if religion makes sense in the least, and the starting point for arguments cannot be the assumption that your religion holds true.

Digi, again, don't state that 'but it IS true, and I can't argue without using the TRUTH' because I'm not going to bother to respond.



But anyway, do you see what I mean?

Religion falls short over and over again on providing evidence or incredible truth. (No, digi, the bible doesn't count because at least 95% of educated, intelligent people know it is not a perfect science book)

Religion also invented the concept of faith as the highest virtue.

Why would this be? As I have found, there is no virtue in it at all.

If your religion is true, the concept of faith is quite stupid.

However, if your religion is ad-hoc make things up, even you have to agree that it would make great sense to just invent faith and use it to fill in the gaps. A different version of the God of the Gaps, if you will.

So please, I would like to know, why is faith in God so virtuos?

(Again, faith in GOD, NOT faith in anything else, they are separate, don't assume they are the same thing, and explain why believing that God and Jesus exists basically earns your salvation and means anything)

Well said, IanBoyd.

I certainly disagree with the assumption that atheists don't have a purpose in life.

Here's 7 non-religious purposes.

Fight injustice in the world.

Deliver the truth to the people.

Improve quality of life with invention.

Create artworks.

Help the poor.

Cure the sick with medicine.

Discover the fundamental structure of matter.

*pulls some random Nietzsche quote out my ass

Meh, I don't think much of "philosophy", either.

Err . . . . Why do people think life needs meaning in order for it to be worth living?

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

I certainly disagree with the assumption that atheists don't have a purpose in life.

Big +1 Fundo

You're a smart man, IanBoyd.

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

I certainly disagree with the assumption that atheists don't have a purpose in life.

Reread that. I said having faith adds purpose to your life. I can see how you assumed this meant I was saying athiests had no purpose in life, but all I meant was that having faith makes you feel as though you have an *extra* purpose; a sense of fullfillment. For me, anyways. I would never say that all athiests lives are purposeless. I tried to come off as non-judgemental as possible in this thread, so I just thought I should point that out.

As for those ideas I mentioned... I have a feeling that beyond a shadow of a doubt, at some point, I will put all my effort into writing it. But I'm young still, and that probably won't happen for a while. But just the fact that I know that someday I will write a book outlining everything I think Christianity & Christians need to be aware of is what compelled me to write this post, it feels like even if somehow I ended up homeless or something; my life will always have at least two purposes. The first being one I feel everyone has: to sustain further existance in anyway possible, by doing anything from deciding not to throw your garbage onto the ground to succesfully raising a child or children. That isn't to say that people with children are the most important life forms; if you think about the statement "one purpose of life is to sustain further existance" hard enough, you will see there are many aspects to fullfilling that purpose. The other purpose, which I can't help but think has been planned for me, is to write the book; whether it is succesful or it causes me to be lynched every time I go outside.

quote:Originally posted by static_void:

I believe faith is some invisible entity which allows us to feel one with God; to add purpose to our lives. Athiests cannot understand this.

Im atheist, and i do understand that. god is your chosen higher power. your higher power is what you conceive to add meaning to your life.

quote:Originally posted by Cooking with Zyklon B:

Im atheist, and i do understand that. god is your chosen higher power. your higher power is what you conceive to add meaning to your life.

I stand corrected. Most atheists.

The belief in something with no evidence whatsoever adds purpose how?

Faith isn't a goal. It doesn't make you any more occupied, it doesn't amount to any work whatsoever. All it does is provide the necessary conditions for you to believe in god.



[This message has been edited by Fundokiller (edited 05-14-2006).]