It seems that here at totse, everyone loves to show off intellect (not a bad thing). But what my question is, why is it not possible to simply look at it in the eyes of child? Doesn't the mastery of intellect begin with a child's point of view? So, why isn't it possible to simply view it in a different perspective? Forget you intellect and try something new.

Kids believe whatever you tell them.

2 + 3 = chair.

K good reason. Any more?

quote:Originally posted by Supero Mortis:

...But what my question is, why is it not possible to simply look at it in the eyes of child? Doesn't the mastery of intellect begin with a child's point of view?...

Simply because intellect begins at this point does not mean that it remains there. With each bit of information/knowledge gained by an individual, their ability to process the data improves. As one's ability to reason improves, one no longer can look at the world through the eyes of a child.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

Simply because intellect begins at this point does not mean that it remains there. With each bit of information/knowledge gained by an individual, their ability to process the data improves. As one's ability to reason improves, one no longer can look at the world through the eyes of a child.



It's true that intellect doesn't stay the same or remain there. But that isn't my question completely... What I meant to ask was why does it require intellect to comprehend the existence of God? It seems like alot of people like to have solid evidence for everything, which could be good or bad. But what ever happened to good old faith?

quote:Originally posted by Supero Mortis:

But what ever happened to good old faith?

Nothing happened to it, it's just that most people want some evidence before they decide to dedicate their lives to something, others don't.

quote:Originally posted by Aseren:

Nothing happened to it, it's just that most people want some evidence before they decide to dedicate their lives to something, others don't.

Hmm, seems reasonable.

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

Kids believe whatever you tell them.

2 + 3 = chair.

i lol'd

quote:Originally posted by Supero Mortis:

It seems that here at totse, everyone loves to show off intellect (not a bad thing). But what my question is, why is it not possible to simply look at it in the eyes of child? Doesn't the mastery of intellect begin with a child's point of view? So, why isn't it possible to simply view it in a different perspective? Forget you intellect and try something new.



No offense. I think we all ask the question all too often. "Why can't they see, God?"

A blind man can't see no matter how hard he trys to, or how much he desires to. He doesn't know color. You can tell him what color looks like, 'pink', but it fails to mean anything to him. Pink becomes a simple word, without meaning. It hasn't lost it's meaning. Pink is pink, regardless of your ability to see it or not. Upon seeing it, you can admire it.

With all the revelation the God's given us, even we have yet to see the picture without a blurs. We know what He's revealed to us, but His thoughts are above our, and His ways, much higher than our own. Walk in the revelation you've been given. Admire the colors your eyes have been allow to behold the beauty of, and pray to see more.

With much Love.

-A lump of clay, in the Potter's hand, in the process of being molded into His likeliness.

Maybe we can't "see" your imaginary friend because he isn't really there?

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

Maybe we can't "see" your imaginary friend because he isn't really there?

quote:Originally posted by Supero Mortis:

But what ever happened to good old faith?

Faith was never good. It was never a virtue. When you examine what it really is, it is meaningless and ultimately irrelevant. It took me a very long time to realize it because the idea that faith in God is actually a virtuous thing had been indoctrinated into me. However, a God who saves people based on believing something is in actuality a God who saves people based on irrelevant, meaningless gut feelings and/or a desire to feel comfort, to feel special, etc.

Religion pushes faith as good very strongly because you need to have it to accept all the extraordinary claims that have no evidence upon which the church bases its authority and correctness.

Ah, good advice. Look at it through the eyes of a child. Fantastic. Do you still believe in Santa Claus? Well, that's what looking at it with the eyes of a child means- being very easily deceived into believing things that make you feel good.

Perfect analogy, actually.

Another problem is the fact that many people of faith, lik HellzShellz, reject evolutionary theory which has overwhelming evidence supporting it.

So not only do they believe in something without evidence (god), but they reject a belief that is supported by evidence. What conclusions can be made form this?

They may not know the evidence (very likely HellzShellz does not). This could be for a variety of reasons: ignorance, stupidity, unwillingness to learn.

They may know the evidence and reject the belief for some other reason. Perhaps a metaframe like "the evidence is a test" or "faith should be held above all else" ...

To the OP: As children we believe in Santa and the toothfairy yet those do not exist. A child's intellect is quite stupid, their brain is very open to suggestion (guillible) because that's how we absorb the culture. If you are suggesting that the child's insight is somehow better suited to comprehend god you are incorrect, they are simply more willing to believe what they are told (as already mentioned). How could we test this? Simple... find a child who has not been exposed to the concept of god and see what they believe.

[This message has been edited by Real.PUA (edited 05-11-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

[B]Another problem is the fact that many people of faith, lik HellzShellz, reject evolutionary theory which has overwhelming evidence supporting it.

you mean to say that there's "overwhelming evidence" to support the "fact" that we turned into humans from monkeys?

i personally can't see how people don't believe. life is simply too complicated (ironic, no?) to be merely happenstance.

quote:Originally posted by sudsymcduff:



you mean to say that there's "overwhelming evidence" to support the "fact" that we turned into humans from monkeys?

i personally can't see how people don't believe. life is simply too complicated (ironic, no?) to be merely happenstance.

1. Yes, there most definately is an overwhelming amount of evidence. Pretty much every single branch of Science substantiates evolution, as well as numerous branches of Mathematics. That's definately overwhelming evidence, and definately not something you can even come close to saying for creationism or Intelligent Design.

2. Evolution isn't happenstance. If you believe that, then it's blatantly obvious you know little of what you claim is not true.

quote:Originally posted by Supero Mortis:

Forget you intellect and try something new.

Hahaha, the one true theme and should-be slogan of nearly all religious thought.

"We welcome you at the Church of Jesus and the Latter Day Saints. Forget your intellect. Try something new."

quote:Originally posted by sudsymcduff:

i personally can't see how people don't believe. life is simply too complicated (ironic, no?) to be merely happenstance.

Why is it harder to believe that it was pure chance that led to this existence? I can't see that it is easier for a super being with infinite powers to have created the universe rather than blind old chance.

And doesn't the world seem a more beautiful place if there is no creator? I mean ,you see beauty when you look around ,you can feel happiness ,surely it is more beautiful if this could simply happen...

How can you also say that you don't believe in evoloution? That there is no "evidence"? Theres plenty of evidence ,whether it's true or not is a moot point theres still evidence. Just like theres evidence of god .... But that means dickity shit ,evidence proves nothing.

Have A Nice Day.

FROM GODS POINT OF VIEW in almost all religons YOU MAY NOT DISCERN what he/it has gien/created you cannot discern anything as we are inferior and so cannot reacgh a definitive DISERNMENT on both GOD AND matter....????>>????

I'm going to have to put this out there. God's given me a compassion for the loved ones He's died for.

No one seems to be alert of their surroundings. No one even seems to give thought to anything that doesn't make 'sense' to their natural mind, and if they do for a single moment in time,(whatever the cause) given a moment longer, and they're talking themselves out of the supernatural thing they've witnessed or experienced.

"There just has to be some logical REASON."

"That just can't be real. Did I just see that? No, it was a magic trick. I bet they staged it all. I bet they paid those people." You end up believing your own speculation. Even if a miracle were to occur before your very eyes, you would harden your heart towards God, and turn to some explanaion the world would offer. The Pharisees did it with Jesus. The Pharoah did it with Moses. There are no things new under the sun.

This is where the rubber meets the road. It's a decision of your own mind. It's a cry of your own heart, and a profession from the mouth based on the two.

The Truth is, rather you wish to acknowledge it or not, is that you don't want to answer to authority. You feel guilt and shame because of your lack of righteousness and your abundance of imperfection that all flesh has in common. You don't want to humble yourself before the Creator of all. What's keeping you back? Fear, KNOWLEDGE, Your boyfriend and his wonderful lies, your family, your friends. Why? They regulate and rule your lives.

God brought His people (Israel) out of egypty (bondage) with signs, wonders, and miracles. He parted the Red Sea. He caused water to spring up from a rock. He caused a staff to turn into a snake. He held nothing back from His people, but His people held back from Him. "If we could have remained slaves in Egypt, instead of wondering through the wilderness, on our way to freedom." They were 40 years in the wilderness, complaining, and forgetting who their God is, and what He's willing to do for His people if they'll turn to HIM, and BELIEVE. They wanted their PAST more than they wanted God. They looked back. They were 12 days from the promised land. It took them 40 years to complete a 12 day journey. Finally the Joshua Generation stood up and said, WE WILL OBEY GOD. WE WILL GO POSSESS WHAT'S OURS. They did it, the older generation died in the wilderness, because they refused to believe God.

All of your intellect, does it bring you peace of mind? No, it doesn't. All of your education, does it cause the questions to cease to be? Certainly not. All of your unbelief, does it make the Truth of non-existence? Absolutely not. The more you know, the more miserable you become, because you're walking around in the wilderness, refusing to believe God, searching for something to satisfy.

Only God can satisfy. If you choose to die while denying the very One who can save you, if YOU will, you'll die empty, and incomplete. What are you waiting on God to do? He's already made the provision. He's done it all. Now He's waiting on YOU.

Even Christians are stuck in the wilderness, because they cared MORE for the things of the FLESH, or of the world, than for God.

I begged God to send me to China, so that I could minister the gospel to those who would receive it. (Willing to die, and still am) He gave me a compassion for America. Not a burden, but a gift of love. America, is the modern Israel, and there's a Joshua Generation rising up. Will YOU go over to the promised land with us? Or will you die in the wilderness? Either way, we're going.

-A servant.

[This message has been edited by HellzShellz (edited 05-15-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

[B]

No one seems to be alert of their surroundings. No one even seems to give thought to anything that doesn't make 'sense' to their natural mind, and if they do for a single moment in time,(whatever the cause) given a moment longer, and they're talking themselves out of the supernatural thing they've witnessed or experienced.

I give plenty of thoughts to everything that That does not make sense. In fact ,I've realised that very little makes sense ,in fact nothing makes sense. It just is ,their doesn't have to be sense to something ,it just is.

God may or may not be real ... If he's real he sure as hell doesn't make sense ,he's equally absurd as everything else.

quote:"There just has to be some logical REASON."

"That just can't be real. Did I just see that? No, it was a magic trick. I bet they staged it all. I bet they paid those people." You end up believing your own speculation. Even if a miracle were to occur before your very eyes, you would harden your heart towards God, and turn to some explanaion the world would offer. The Pharisees did it with Jesus. The Pharoah did it with Moses. There are no things new under the sun.

Ever see light diffract? Well obviously but ,but you know ,in an experiment? Now to me that can't be real ,in fact ,everything I see feel and experince seems to lack reality. I mean ,How do you explain shit growing in a woman? What the fuck? How do you explain the little sperm that was me? Science does it ,but that doesn't mean its real. Same with god ,he explains things ,deson't mean he's real.

quote:This is where the rubber meets the road. It's a decision of your own mind. It's a cry of your own heart, and a profession from the mouth based on the two.

If it's a decision from our own mind don't we have the right to disbelieve?

quote:The Truth is, rather you wish to acknowledge it or not, is that you don't want to answer to authority. You feel guilt and shame because of your lack of righteousness and your abundance of imperfection that all flesh has in common. You don't want to humble yourself before the Creator of all. What's keeping you back? Fear, KNOWLEDGE, Your boyfriend and his wonderful lies, your family, your friends. Why? They regulate and rule your lives.

Since when has fear prevented someone from kneeling? It is a basis of power. Simple. I can say that the Truth is that shit happens... It has exactly the same weight as what you have said.

quote: They did it, the older generation died in the wilderness, because they refused to believe God.

People that refuse to believe in god die?

Same with most people really ...

Yo saying god sent them to hell?

Not so nice.

quote:All of your intellect, does it bring you peace of mind? No, it doesn't. All of your education, does it cause the questions to cease to be? Certainly not.

Isn't that the point? The entire point is learning is that you are never content there are always more questions. Personally I would rather have an eternity of revelations and unfolding beauty than a moment of utter realization of everything.. Rather my partial knowledge and forever be enlightned than a single gift ...



quote:All of your unbelief, does it make the Truth of non-existence? Absolutely not. The more you know, the more miserable you become, because you're walking around in the wilderness, refusing to believe God, searching for something to satisfy.

All of your belief, does it make the Truth of existence? Absolutly not. The less you need to know ,the less miserable you become , because you have a sheperd in the wilderness ,your belief in God satisfies.

quote:Only God can satisfy. If you choose to die while denying the very One who can save you, if YOU will, you'll die empty, and incomplete. What are you waiting on God to do? He's already made the provision. He's done it all. Now He's waiting on YOU.

Even Christians are stuck in the wilderness, because they cared MORE for the things of the FLESH, or of the world, than for God.

So are you saying that your God will send a good man to hell because he does not believe? Or will make this man empty?

quote:I begged God to send me to China, so that I could minister the gospel to those who would receive it. (Willing to die, and still am) He gave me a compassion for America. Not a burden, but a gift of love. America, is the modern Israel, and there's a Joshua Generation rising up. Will YOU go over to the promised land with us? Or will you die in the wilderness? Either way, we're going.

What about the rest of the world? Why is america Israel? I don't understand why I can't go to israel ,must be some racial deficiency of mine that I can't be holy ,must be cause I'm not american.

(I know this isn't what you meant entirely ,but still ,couldn't miss a point to be petty could I? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) )

Why give up on China? Why do you need god to send you to china? Go there yourself, God does'nt need to reply to you ,If you know that it is his will ,I feel that you could help some people... Go do it.

-A person.

Have A Nice Day.