Hi. All my life I've been an atheist. But now I'm not so sure anymore... the notion of a "god" still sounds too sci-fi for me BUT: my grandfather recently experienced something that made me think.

I'm sure you've heard about this stuff before: He died of an heartattack, but the doctors were able to bring him back to life after about 3 minutes. In the meantime he went to heaven. And he described everything to me in clear detail when he "came back".

I know there are a lot of people that have experienced the same thing. What do you guys think?...

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

Is it possible that he exists?

I'm so confused.

Hes bullshitting. stop being a faggot.

Your grandpa sounds like a half-dead delusional piece of shit to me.

If you know this is the wrong forum, why didn't you post it in the correct forum?

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

It is very human to think.

No nigga. There are tons of chemicals stored in your brain, and when you're close to dying the brain usually releases them all at once. You lose your sense of time and have psychadelic experiences. Your grandpa was tripping on his own supply.

[This message has been edited by Zay (edited 05-12-2006).]

You knew it was the wrong forum you freakishly white nigger. Delete it.

quote:Originally posted by Zay:

No nigga. There are tons of chemicals stored in your brain, and when you're close to dying the brain usually releases them all at once. You lose your sense of time and have psychadelic experiences. Your grandpa was tripping on his own supply.



How come he could see the doctors working on him? He told the doctor things he SHOULDN'T of seen since he was dead.

Like the fact that his shoe fell off and they put it on a table next to the sink.

What's up with that?

You know how you dream of falling and then you wake up ubruptly as you hit the floor? In your dream you're falling for a long time yet the distance from bed to floor is only a couple of seconds. This is because your brain processes faster when your sleeping. You'r grandfather had his dream right as he was nodding into to death and then maybe a little when nodding back. Its not supernatural im afraid. It's just another wonder of the human mind

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Hi. All my life I've been an atheist. But now I'm not so sure anymore... the notion of a "god" still sounds too sci-fi for me BUT: my grandfather recently experienced something that made me think.

I'm sure you've heard about this stuff before: He died of an heartattack, but the doctors were able to bring him back to life after about 3 minutes. In the meantime he went to heaven. And he described everything to me in clear detail when he "came back".

I know there are a lot of people that have experienced the same thing. What do you guys think?...

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

Is it possible that he exists?

I'm so confused.

I will always hold true to my Atheism.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

How come he could see the doctors working on him? He told the doctor things he SHOULDN'T of seen since he was dead.

Like the fact that his shoe fell off and they put it on a table next to the sink.

What's up with that?



He might of had a little bit of life left in him, how are you so sure he was dead?

quote:Originally posted by HAND:

You know how you dream of falling and then you wake up ubruptly as you hit the floor? In your dream you're falling for a long time yet the distance from bed to floor is only a couple of seconds. This is because your brain processes faster when your sleeping. You'r grandfather had his dream right as he was nodding into to death and then maybe a little when nodding back. Its not supernatural im afraid. It's just another wonder of the human mind



You've actually had a falling dream when you roll off your bed and fall to the floor? I've only ever had a few falling dreams, but I've never actually fell from my bed.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

How come he could see the doctors working on him? He told the doctor things he SHOULDN'T of seen since he was dead.

Like the fact that his shoe fell off and they put it on a table next to the sink.

What's up with that?

Shit, I'm not a neuro-biologist. What I do know is that the mind works in mysterious ways, not god.

quote:Originally posted by Tufty:



You've actually had a falling dream when you roll off your bed and fall to the floor? I've only ever had a few falling dreams, but I've never actually fell from my bed.



I have, and I know what he means. At least 2 times, the second time off of a bunk bead so i got a nice lump on the back of my head from banging it off of a nightstand.

quote:Originally posted by impact:



He might of had a little bit of life left in him, how are you so sure he was dead?

He flatlined. I seen it. I don't know too much about medicine but I know that little whatamacallit is suppose to be keeping your heart rate and it "flatlined".

Doctors told us he had just died but they'll try to revive him.

HE TOLD ME HE WATCHED HIS SHOE FALL OFF OF HIS FOOT WHEN HE WAS HOVERING ABOVE HIS BODY AND SAW THE DOCTOR PLACE IT ON THE TABLE BESIDES HIM. [/excitment flurry of capital letters]

He didn't see no bright light thing he just said he went to some place "warm and god-like" and his body and mind had never felt so good before. He said it was unexplainable.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

He flatlined. I seen it. I don't know too much about medicine but I know that little whatamacallit is suppose to be keeping your heart rate and it "flatlined".

Doctors told us he had just died but they'll try to revive him.

HE TOLD ME HE WATCHED HIS SHOE FALL OFF OF HIS FOOT WHEN HE WAS HOVERING ABOVE HIS BODY AND SAW THE DOCTOR PLACE IT ON THE TABLE BESIDES HIM. [/excitment flurry of capital letters]

He didn't see no bright light thing he just said he went to some place "warm and god-like" and his body and mind had never felt so good before. He said it was unexplainable.



I think your grandpa is either fucking with you, or is insane. This is bullshit. I highly doubt even the most religious people will agree that when you die your soul hovers above your fucking body. Take this shit somewhere else, wigger.

quote:Originally posted by impact:



I think your grandpa is either fucking with you, or is insane. This is bullshit. I highly doubt even the most religious people will agree that when you die your soul hovers above your fucking body. Take this shit somewhere else, wigger.

Watch some TV, read up a little bit and look at scientific studies and statistics and questionaires where dozens upon dozens of people have experienced these same events during a NDE (near death experience) before you start calling me a wigger.

I'm too old for name calling.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Watch some TV, read up a little bit and look at scientific studies and statistics and questionaires where dozens upon dozens of people have experienced these same events during a NDE (near death experience) before you start calling me a wigger.

I'm too old for name calling.





Not too old to be a complete moron though.

quote:Originally posted by impact:



Not too old to be a complete moron though.

Don't think I've forgotten about how big your two front teeth are.

impact, don't stir up old controversy over the sake of an arguement.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Watch some TV, read up a little bit and look at scientific studies and statistics and questionaires where dozens upon dozens of people have experienced these same events during a NDE (near death experience) before you start calling me a wigger.

I'm too old for name calling.



Yeah, people of all religions and even atheists experience that. If any of those religions were true, why would others experience going to heaven? Chemicals in your brain! What scientists call that which you are describing is the Non-Local Quantum Brain circuit. Look it up.

[This message has been edited by Zay (edited 05-12-2006).]

The Non-Local quantum brain circuit is imprinted by shock, near-death, clinical-death, Out of body experiences, trans-time perceptions, and trans-space visions. It tunes the brain into a communication system suggested by physicists such as Bohm, Walker, Sarfatti, Bell, etc.

it's understanable not to believe. heck, i believe, but i'm always questioning my faith. i don't think god would penalize you, or do anything like that. so long as you don't kill another man in cold blood or commit suicide, i think he'd be cool. but you'd probably have to spend a few years in purgatory

quote:Originally posted by Zay:

Yeah, people of all religions and even atheists experience that. If any of those religions were true, why would others experience going to heaven? Chemicals in your brain! What scientists call that which you are describing is the Non-Local Quantum Brain circuit. Look it up.



I've read and watched many documentaries and various other reports about NDE's.

Having chemicals in your brain and getting high off of your own supply doesn't explain the "floating" or hovering over your body that many of these people have and being able to recall in detail what's going on while they're hovering in the hospital room that they're in after they've been already reported dead.

umm, gay.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

He flatlined. I seen it. I don't know too much about medicine but I know that little whatamacallit is suppose to be keeping your heart rate and it "flatlined".

Doctors told us he had just died but they'll try to revive him.

HE TOLD ME HE WATCHED HIS SHOE FALL OFF OF HIS FOOT WHEN HE WAS HOVERING ABOVE HIS BODY AND SAW THE DOCTOR PLACE IT ON THE TABLE BESIDES HIM. [/excitment flurry of capital letters]

He didn't see no bright light thing he just said he went to some place "warm and god-like" and his body and mind had never felt so good before. He said it was unexplainable.

You can live for a little without your heart. Hell, it's even possible to remain concious for a bit with your head cut off!

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by OneMulatto:

He flatlined. I seen it. I don't know too much about medicine but I know that little whatamacallit is suppose to be keeping your heart rate and it "flatlined".

Doctors told us he had just died but they'll try to revive him.

HE TOLD ME HE WATCHED HIS SHOE FALL OFF OF HIS FOOT WHEN HE WAS HOVERING ABOVE HIS BODY AND SAW THE DOCTOR PLACE IT ON THE TABLE BESIDES HIM. [/excitment flurry of capital letters]

He didn't see no bright light thing he just said he went to some place "warm and god-like" and his body and mind had never felt so good before. He said it was unexplainable.

You can live for a little without your heart. Hell, it's even possible to remain concious for a bit with your head cut off!

Yes. I know. For a test someone told someone who was about to have their head cut off to blink a few times if he's still alive.

I believed he blinked three or four times.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Hi. All my life I've been an atheist. But now I'm not so sure anymore... the notion of a "god" still sounds too sci-fi for me BUT: my grandfather recently experienced something that made me think.

I'm sure you've heard about this stuff before: He died of an heartattack, but the doctors were able to bring him back to life after about 3 minutes. In the meantime he went to heaven. And he described everything to me in clear detail when he "came back".

I know there are a lot of people that have experienced the same thing. What do you guys think?...

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

Is it possible that he exists?

I'm so confused.

you should slap one of your parents for defiling their white blood. only then can you redeem yourself into gods furry bosum.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Hi. All my life I've been an atheist. But now I'm not so sure anymore... the notion of a "god" still sounds too sci-fi for me BUT: my grandfather recently experienced something that made me think.

I'm sure you've heard about this stuff before: He died of an heartattack, but the doctors were able to bring him back to life after about 3 minutes. In the meantime he went to heaven. And he described everything to me in clear detail when he "came back".

I know there are a lot of people that have experienced the same thing. What do you guys think?...

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

Is it possible that he exists?

I'm so confused.

Look up the pineal gland and the body's self-production of DXM upon high-stress situations.

God is fake.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Don't think I've forgotten about how big your two front teeth are.

impact, don't stir up old controversy over the sake of an arguement.





Ok, you lightbulb headed pasty quasi-nigger.

Let's consider it an OOBE. Out-of-body-experience.

It's like a lucid dream, or a trip from drugs. Personally, I have never had an OOBE, but I'm working on my lucid dreaming. (Inspired from the lucid dreaming thread in IFIOTW, kudos)

Consider it...a miracle. But before making such a decision on faith, remember that you have many years ahead of you to ponder the question of death.

Bypassing all the people who think it's cool to be atheist, (not the actual atheists, I have no problem with you guys.)

It's very possible, that the soul could hover over the body.

Many people have described things like this, (although half might be looking for their five minutes...)

As for hell? What do you think? Have you done good in this world?

{DA}

quote:Originally posted by impact:



Ok, you lightbulb headed pasty quasi-nigger.

HAHA.

Awesome. Hard to believe but it would be fucking crazy if it was true and it would really give me some different views in life. You sure this isn't another one of your stories?

Seriously, I think the best words ever said on religion, were...

'If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him'

I inturprit it as, if a person believes in God, then there is one, and its not up for question.

If God didn't exist, we would make him up, meaning that we need a God, so God didn't exist, but we need him, so we made him up, so he does exist, you see?

Every civilisation in the world, even those that never saw eachother, have ALL had a God. This says something.

It means that God exists in the minds of the people. And if thinking that there is a God watching you makes you do something nice to people, then how is that any different from a God actualy existing?

Know what i mean?

I agree with those that say it was chemicals.

People often visualize their fantasies of death upon dying. There are people who see heaven, aliens, Elvis, the Kennedy assassination, hell, and some just hover over their bodies like your grandpa.

However, what about the possibility that he was either told directly, or indirectly noticed, that his shoe had fallen off of his foot and been place on the table. Then, in the excitement of just experiencing what would have seemed to him like reality (but was really halucination) that he saw the shoe fall off.

It's almost like a hind-sight bias of sorts. He realizes that his shoe fell off, and quickly thinks "Oh yes! I remember seeing it fall off!", when in reality he's just inadvertantly creating false memories based on what he thinks he should have seen.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

He flatlined. I seen it. I don't know too much about medicine but I know that little whatamacallit is suppose to be keeping your heart rate and it "flatlined".

Doctors told us he had just died but they'll try to revive him.

1. "Death" is a complete brain death, not just the heart stopping. So if the doctors told you that he had died, they were not saying so in a technical sense, but a figurative one.

Decades ago, death was thought to occur when the heart stopped, but Medicine has advanced to the point that it knows that simply because your heart stops, it does not mean that you are dead. Your heart stopping means that it isn't pumping any more blood; however, your brains doesn't "die" until it uses the oxygenated blood it already had in place, and if the heart is restarted before all of the oxygen left is used up, you don't die. That's what happened to your grandfather.

2. We don't know much about the brain because it is very complex, however, NDE's can be explained.

Like some people have already said, when you are close to dying, your brain releases a huge amount of chemicals, and throws a huge amount of signals in a desperate attempt to keep your body functioning. This can easily cause one to hear, see or feel things.

That some people seem to recall things that occurred when they were "dead" could be explained by the fact that their brain could remain working even after their heart stops (by virtue of the brain not "dying" completely).

3. There are a myriad of documented cases of NDEs that clearly suggest that what they saw had nothing to do with the after-life. From people "remembering" things that never actually happened, to other claiming that they saw the future, only to have their predictions fail miserably.

I'm sticking with onemullato. I've known him longer (although, I doubt he knows me. Meh doesn't matter.)

Alzheimers ftw, your grandpops is wack

I'm afraid I can't understand atheism. Can someone atheist (or someone with any incite) explain why they choose atheism over agnosticism? I can understand believing in God out of fear, amazement of the world, lack of purpose otherwise, etc. etc. And agnosticism is a logical thought process but atheism is one I haven't rationalised a clear reason for... is it out of spite against religious zealots or what?

quote:Originally posted by Pat Says:

I'm afraid I can't understand atheism. Can someone atheist (or someone with any incite) explain why they choose atheism over agnosticism? I can understand believing in God out of fear, amazement of the world, lack of purpose otherwise, etc. etc. And agnosticism is a logical thought process but atheism is one I haven't rationalised a clear reason for... is it out of spite against religious zealots or what?

Someone screwed up in defining agnosticism. I'll try to clear it up. There is no such that as being "just agnostic". Agnostic is not a view on the (non)existence of god(s). Agnostic means strictly that you do not think man will ever be able to say with 100% certainty that there is or is not a god(s).

There are agnostic atheists, and agnostic theists. Agnosticism is about knowledge, not about god-belief itself. So while you may say you are an agnostic, you are still either an atheist or a theist. If you believe in a god, you're a theist. If not, your an atheist. If you're not sure, your an atheist by default simply because you lack belief in a deity.

So while you don't "understand atheism", you are most likely (providing you don't actively believe in a god) an agnostic atheist.

[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 05-13-2006).]

Elephantitis Man covered it perfectly.

quote:Originally posted by Pat Says:

I'm afraid I can't understand atheism. Can someone atheist (or someone with any incite) explain why they choose atheism over agnosticism? I can understand believing in God out of fear, amazement of the world, lack of purpose otherwise, etc. etc. And agnosticism is a logical thought process but atheism is one I haven't rationalised a clear reason for... is it out of spite against religious zealots or what?

No I have nothing against religious people, but I honestly don't think its possible that there is a god. Why would god, an "All powerful" being create us and just expect us to have blind faith, if he made us knowing that humans aren't trustworthy to people, why wouldn't he show himself, not expect to have everyone put blind faith in him?

i have no clue if im worng but correct me if i am. i heard when you do acid it makes your brain holucinate by tricking it into thinking it is dying... so it realese all these chemicals to do this. this is probably what your grandfather experinced.

same feeling or whatever... closed eye visuals probably

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Elephantitis Man covered it perfectly.

A compliment from Rust?! http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/eek.gif)

My e-penis just grew 10"!

http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Someone screwed up in defining agnosticism. I'll try to clear it up. There is no such that as being "just agnostic". Agnostic is not a view on the (non)existence of god(s). Agnostic means strictly that you do not think man will ever be able to say with 100% certainty that there is or is not a god(s).

There are agnostic atheists, and agnostic theists. Agnosticism is about knowledge, not about god-belief itself. So while you may say you are an agnostic, you are still either an atheist or a theist. If you believe in a god, you're a theist. If not, your an atheist. If you're not sure, your an atheist by default simply because you lack belief in a deity.

So while you don't "understand atheism", you are most likely (providing you don't actively believe in a god) an agnostic atheist.



No, I understand how there is a spectrum of beliefs that you just described. What I meant by atheism in this case (the one I couldn't understand) was outright disbelief. As in the opposite of undenying faith of a deity. I'm sorry though, I should have been more specific. And I did mean agnosticism in regards to theistic beliefs (whether atheistic or theistic).

Sorry about my lack of clarity. I do know that agnostic means 'without knowledge' (derived from Greek).

So... if anyone could still answer my question I'd appreciate it.

Yo Pat,

This site may be able to help you out:

http://www.strongatheism.net/intro/incoherency_of_agnosticism/

Alot of interesting stuff there.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Yo Pat,

This site may be able to help you out:

ht tp://www.s trongatheism.net/intro/incoherency_of_agnosticism/ (http: //www.stro ngatheism. net/intro/ incoherenc y_of_agnos ticism/)

Alot of interesting stuff there.

Thanks for the read. I went through their FAQ and it makes a lot more sense now. I do, however, still have one problem with one of their thoughts:

"• Science cannot disprove the existence of gods.

Incorrect. Since the truth of the god-hypothesis entails natural consequences, science can disprove the existence of gods."

Wouldn't disproving existence require an omniscient understanding of the universe?

He was brain dead. They had zipped him up in the body bag and everything and moved him to the dead people's room.

An individual seen his body bag moving up and down due to his breathing.

He floated above his damn body and told the doctors things he shouldn't of been able to.

His shoes falling off. The bald spot on some guys head. A conversation about a basketball game one of the nurses had while they were wheeling his body to the dead people's room.

I don't believe too much about heaven or god or hell, any of that shit, but, this stuff made me think.

I believe him.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

He flatlined. I seen it. I don't know too much about medicine but I know that little whatamacallit is suppose to be keeping your heart rate and it "flatlined".

Doctors told us he had just died but they'll try to revive him.

HE TOLD ME HE WATCHED HIS SHOE FALL OFF OF HIS FOOT WHEN HE WAS HOVERING ABOVE HIS BODY AND SAW THE DOCTOR PLACE IT ON THE TABLE BESIDES HIM. [/excitment flurry of capital letters]

He didn't see no bright light thing he just said he went to some place "warm and god-like" and his body and mind had never felt so good before. He said it was unexplainable.

Look, just beacuse you flatline doesnt mean that you instantly lose all control of your body..

flatlining is just youre heart rate and your pulse dropping to 0.. you still have several seconds to see things, the DMT and other chemicals released at death cause reaction and perception times to go out the window..

Its called a near death experience.

The problem is your full of shit and I was much happier when I thought you were dead.

Fucking lieing sack of shit coon.

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Hi. All my life I've been an atheist. But now I'm not so sure anymore... the notion of a "god" still sounds too sci-fi for me BUT: my grandfather recently experienced something that made me think.

I'm sure you've heard about this stuff before: He died of an heartattack, but the doctors were able to bring him back to life after about 3 minutes. In the meantime he went to heaven. And he described everything to me in clear detail when he "came back".

I know there are a lot of people that have experienced the same thing. What do you guys think?...

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

Is it possible that he exists?

I'm so confused.

YOUR GRAMPA SUSTAINED AN ERECTION?

PICtURES NOW!

Oh you people suck. Fuck you reductionistic bastards.

There's a God or something out there. I do know that for a fact. I do not know whether it is the judeo-christian God from the bible/torah, or Allah, or Krishna, or whatever. But I know there is something.

quote:Originally posted by Tufty:

If you know this is the wrong forum, why didn't you post it in the correct forum?

quote:Originally posted by OneMulatto:

Hi. All my life I've been an atheist. But now I'm not so sure anymore... the notion of a "god" still sounds too sci-fi for me BUT: my grandfather recently experienced something that made me think.

I'm sure you've heard about this stuff before: He died of an heartattack, but the doctors were able to bring him back to life after about 3 minutes. In the meantime he went to heaven. And he described everything to me in clear detail when he "came back".

I know there are a lot of people that have experienced the same thing. What do you guys think?...

Have I been a sinner all these years for doubting god?

Is it possible that he exists?

I'm so confused.

Hahaha ur an idiot. Go hump a bible.

Here we have some relatively close-sourced anecdotal evidence, and everyone automatically dismisses it.

I'm not saying you should automatically believe it, but don't go straight to the opposite end. There's too much of the same anecdotal evidence from too many people to dismiss it entirely.

quote:Originally posted by Zay:

No nigga. There are tons of chemicals stored in your brain, and when you're close to dying the brain usually releases them all at once. You lose your sense of time and have psychadelic experiences. Your grandpa was tripping on his own supply.



Couldn't have put it better myself...