As a child, I often asked the know-it-all adults: “If there’s God, why can’t I see Him?”

Now, many, many years later, I have forgotten to ask theists this. Instead, spending my time and effort on more complex arguments such as free will & causality, soul, memory & identity, intelligent design & evolution, etc.

Luckily, I stumble upon Nicolas Fearn's book.

Excerpt from Nicolas Fearn’s Zeno and the Tortoise: How To Think Like A Philosopher:

When, for example, someone repeatedly refuses your offer of a date, it could be because they have been exceptionally busy for that past six months, because they are too nervous to accept, or because you have not yet suggested an appealing venue. The simplest explanation, however − and the normal assumption in the circumstances − is to conclude that the person does not fancy you. Until they express feelings to the contrary, this position is advisable if you want to save energy.

What's Fearn talking about?

Occam's Razor

What is it you're expecting to see? Do you not see it now?

The Prophets are able to see Him.

I can't!

You don't think you can see God because he doesn't exsist in Earths dimensions, but if you open your eyes and start looking for Him, you will find evidence of Him everywhere.

quote:Originally posted by Dragonsthrone:

You don't think you can see God because he doesn't exsist in Earths dimensions, but if you open your eyes and start looking for Him, you will find evidence of Him everywhere.



What an amazingly idiotic and meaningless thing to say.

quote:Originally posted by Dragonsthrone:

You don't think you can see God because he doesn't exsist in Earths dimensions, but if you open your eyes and start looking for Him, you will find evidence of Him everywhere.

I don't believe any prophet ever saw God. Why? There is absolutely nothing to be seen except what we see every single day! God has no image and is not somewhere, but rather, we exist within God, we are made of God, existing only because of God, and God is the ultimate control. How is this? What proof of there is this? People imagine God as something to be somewhere, an image fit into a form when they don't realize God is the very Reality they exist within, that everything is made of, that we are controlled by and can not escape. All the possible options we have for what we can possibly do or think at any time are available ahead of time, if the availability didn't exist within the system then no one would be able to think that specific thought or perform that specific action. What we can't think will always be unknown to us. God is what all possibilities and possible universes and realities exist within. God is the Ultimate Reality, infinite, no image or constraints. What you see every single day, what you interact with every moment, what you utilize every second of your life is God. God is the Reality. Surrounding you, within you, without you, self sufficient, you are part of it, within it, existing only because it exists, if it did not exist, absolutely nothing would exist. It is essentially all there is.

But people deem themselves self sufficient, at times they may feel reality is something they can surpass or escape, or have no need of, they may feel somehow that they are superior to other forms of matter when every single thing, living, non living, past, present, and future is part of the One thing, Reality. You are surrounded, within and without. You see God every day, you live God in every way.

What God would you believe in? You expect to see something limited? In Confines of an image? Within the universe?

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I don't believe any prophet ever saw God. Why? There is absolutely nothing to be seen except what we see every single day! God has no image and is not somewhere, but rather, we exist within God, we are made of God, existing only because of God, and God is the ultimate control. How is this? What proof of there is this? People imagine God as something to be somewhere, an image fit into a form when they don't realize God is the very Reality they exist within, that everything is made of, that we are controlled by and can not escape. All the possible options we have for what we can possibly do or think at any time are available ahead of time, if the availability didn't exist within the system then no one would be able to think that specific thought or perform that specific action. What we can't think will always be unknown to us. God is what all possibilities and possible universes and realities exist within. God is the Ultimate Reality, infinite, no image or constraints. What you see every single day, what you interact with every moment, what you utilize every second of your life is God. God is the Reality. Surrounding you, within you, without you, self sufficient, you are part of it, within it, existing only because it exists, if it did not exist, absolutely nothing would exist. It is essentially all there is.

But people deem themselves self sufficient, at times they may feel reality is something they can surpass or escape, or have no need of, they may feel somehow that they are superior to other forms of matter when every single thing, living, non living, past, present, and future is part of the One thing, Reality. You are surrounded, within and without. You see God every day, you live God in every way.

What God would you believe in? You expect to see something limited? In Confines of an image? Within the universe?

You realise that if I were to replace "God" with "Existence", everything you had typed would still be as coherent still?

Yes. That's what "God" is. You are seeing and living it now.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Yes. That's what "God" is. You are seeing and living it now.

In that case, God does not sent you to Hell or grant you salvation. You must be a pantheist?

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Abrahim:

[b]Yes. That's what "God" is. You are seeing and living it now.

In that case, God does not sent you to Hell or grant you salvation. You must be a pantheist?

I'm not sure if I'm a pantheist, but though God is the Reality we exist within, interact with, and are made of, God does in my opinion send learning and guidance to mankind through enlightened scripture and prophets, and does execute eventual judgement and justice. Those who were self destructive and destructive, negative in action, doing "bad" for themselves and others, will be punished likewise. Those who did good for themselves and others will be rewarded likewise. My proof of this? None save that it is in the message that claims to be from God.



[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 05-19-2006).]

Pantheism is said to be the belif that the Universe and God are the same, but I state that the Reality the Universe exists within and is made of is God. Similar but maybe not identicle.

Guys, just because you can't see something it does not mean it does not exist. Can you see eletrowaves or radiation with your naked eyes? I don't think so. But it has been scientificaly proved that it existed. It existed long before we knew of it's existence. What you guys need is a scientifical proof, which may take years (or not ccome at all, who knows).

quote:Originally posted by Junyi:

Guys, just because you can't see something it does not mean it does not exist. Can you see eletrowaves or radiation with your naked eyes?

I can measure it easily. I can observe it. I cannot observe this "god" you speak of.

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

I can measure it easily. I can observe it. I cannot observe this "god" you speak of.

And if we could see it, it would be within Reality and within the confines of the universe, and I would disbelieve it due to its limited and confined nature. I take preference to a God in which the universe exists within and is made of, Reality, rather than something made of matter or some form or something visible, or testable. Then again, Reality is visible, obvious, generally accepted and taken for granted, but few accept or understand that this is God. It is right infront of them, behind them, on top of them, around them, but they can't see!

[/B][/QUOTE]

In that case, God does not sent you to Hell or grant you salvation. You must be a pantheist?[/B][/QUOTE]

Lol, pant-heist

[This message has been edited by whitemenCANjump (edited 05-19-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

The Prophets are able to see Him.

I can't!



No one has ever "seen" God, dear.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No one has ever "seen" God, dear.

He can be seen. There are verses to support that.

But, I am not going to copy-and-paste verses, unless you want to.

Anyway, do you remember Gideon?

He tested God!

I will never believe in a God that is limited to a form or visible. Why? That would mean God is encompassed by Reality, that the possibilities of Reality allow the possibility of God to be visible and would be limited to a visual form. My God is Reality, what encompasses everything, what you and I are within, made of, interacting with. We "See" God and experience God every moment of our lives without realizing it. You are as much a part of God as Me, or the Air, the the tree, or a little grain of dust, or the universe. God is One, essentially God is All there is and Ever was. God is Reality, the Ultimate Reality. It is alive, conscious. How do we know it is alive, conscious? If it were "dead", or unconscious, not a single thing would happen, not a possibility could exist. We are active, alive, moving within Reality, utilizing Reality, everything is in constant motion, proof of its "life". It is surrounding us, encompassing us, the ultimate control, unescapable authority, yet we call other things, things within its realm "God" when it, and only it is The True God.

It is what makes all possibilities available to us, all the things we can possibly do or possibly think, all the things that can possibly exist within this reality are existant only because it has allowed it to exist and manifested those options. If the option didn't exist, we wouldnt be able to do it, or think it.

Reality is something often taken for granted, people look for Gods when God is always right infront of them, behind them, everywhere, but some don't comprehend.

Who knows how many possible realities, alternatives, different systems and physics may exist within Ultimate Reality, which encompasses all, we will never know other than our own Reality and its options. This is because our Reality can not process or acess any other Reality or system that does not posess the options that our reality has.

What I believe with certainty is there is No God other than Ultimate Reality, that everything we know, and what we don't know, all the possibilities performed and unperformed, that are available to us to do or think, were manifested by it. Reality is what has always existed, all things are in motion, it is "alive" in that sense. Not a single thing can come from absolute nothing, absolute nothing does not exist, nor has it ever existed, if it ever existed it would still exist and something can not come from absolute nothing, absolute nothing always remains absolute nothing. Ultimate Reality, the plain in which all things can exist, has always existed. All things exist within Ultimate Reality, including our Reality, our Universe, and all that is within it.

Submitting to Reality, attempting to at least grasp a little understanding of it, humbling oneself to the ultimate power, and living a life in congruency with what is best for you can be goals to attempt to achieve.

Can God communicate to mankind? How?

We do the thinking, the processing of information, the possibilities are all available provided by Reality. "Inspiration" is the form in which true prophets are said to recieve their information, this is that their conciousness becomes clear and understanding is granted.

I do not believe any true prophet sat there and thought out what they were going to say and then claim it was from God, but rather that their "Inspiration" was like an enlightenment of mind in which they recieved tremendous amounts of information and understood to some degree. The possibility for that to happen existed, their minds did the work and the processing, they spoke the words "God Inspired". A State of clear conciousness, to them it didn't feel like they were doing it or thinking those things, accessing knowledge which they did not posess, but the knowledge was there, their awareness was raised to a point of inspiration from "Reality" and that is the fashion in which God can communicate to people. It is still within the bounds of our understanding, inspiration never took the form of a series of numbers or digits which not even the Prophets could comprehend or see the relevance of.

There are no glitches in the system that we are aware of, no point in which suddenly this screen dissapears randomly, everything is smooth.

A short Recap of the Above Concepts:

God is not a form within Reality, but rather God is The Ultimate and Essential Reality, what everything exists within and is made of. I would resist anything within Reality, within the possibility of existing in Reality as God, knowing the Most Superior is what provides all the options, what everything exists within. Essentially, God is One, everything is a part of it, it is infinite, formless, beyond our Universe and Reality, it is the Ultimate Reality which only exists and encompasses all, all are made of it, existing because of it.

No matter what one might think, nothing is self sufficient, all things are completely dependant on reality, completely restrained by the gamut of options available to us.

Ultimate Reality is "Alive" its nature as living can be seen in our life, in the movement of all things, if it were dead, it would not exist, nor would anything, nothing would move, there would be no options, nothing would have ever been manifested in the first place and there would be no options to hold any possibilities.

God communicates to the prophets through "inspiration". I do not believe the Prophets were aware of their own minds activity in the process, but genuinely felt the clear consciosness and understanding of being "inspired". I do not believe they deliberately chose or carefully devised what they said, but were in a state of clearity, almost trance, when being inspired.

I agree with what agrees with me. I believe the prophets came to similar conclusions through inspiration, my conclusions are based on the revelations in the Qur'an. (This is discussed in my Islam Topic, you can read about it on the second to last post on the first page.)

Does Reality want us to be a certain way? Some things are clearly indicated and developed through natural processes provided by Reality. I do believe concepts of right action, being a "good human" came originally from these inspired states as they are part of being congruent with reality, doing what is intended, submitting ones will to Reality.

Is there judgement? I won't risk it as I have no knowledge of the future. I will do what is outlined in the revelation that was "inspired" and will hope to be rewarded, if there is absolutely nothing, then I will simply remain dead. I will not risk ultimate failure and loss on conjecture or belief in a future that I can not be certain of, I can not be certain that there is no Judgement no matter what anyone claims to its absurdity, and I will not gamble with such a risk, especially when the warning comes from a Book which has provided me my main concept, that God is Reality. I believe the message is true.

Feel free to ask questions in any of my three topics, "The True Religion", "What is God?", and "Interested in Islam?".

I apologize for the length of this post, I thank any of those who managed to read it, I am glad if anyone enjoyed it or gained insight from it.

The True God will never be limited to a form within Reality. Reality, what everything exists within including us is the only True God, provider, "controller", the Control and Provision is in the options it has provided which each play out every moment.