I sat on a bench the other day and listened to two of my friends. (We will call them sandy & bobby for privacy reasons). The two of them were debating as usual about things in the bible.

Bobby was talking about sin and the price everyone would pay for not following god's law. Sandy says "Yeah but is that fair?" Is what fair Bobby replies.

We only get to live for a 100 years if we are lucky. In that 100 year time span we will do good things and some bad things. my question is what kind of God would punish someone for the rest of eternity for something small they during the tiny little lifespan?

Boddy looked perplexed by this question. She was at a loss for words which is unusual for her. Would it be better for everyone to only be punished for a short period of time based on what they actually did?

This brings to mind a fellow that was struck by lightning and came back from the dead. I believe his name was "Danion Brinkly" he reported that the hell he went through was of his own making.

He said the passage "As you sow, so shall ye reep" was what he experienced first hand. He was forced to expierence every bad thing he had ever done to others, through those other peoples eyes. He was on the recieving end of his own bad deeds. Now that is a fitting punishment.

You go out and rape someone you experience every second of it first hand, the same goes for murder, theft,lies...and so on.

What do you think of this?

[This message has been edited by Nemisis (edited 06-09-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Nemisis:



What do you think of this?

I think it sounds perfectly logical, and I agree. Personally, I don't believe in hell. Actually back when I went to church (catholic), my priest had told me that there really was no hell, and that it was really just more of a scare tactic. Also, I remember reading that the concept of hell didn't come into the bible until much later writings. (maybe someone else can elaborate on that)

Hell was a big dump southeast of Jerusalem where there were constant fires burning garbage.

Many religions agree with this, but not that Danion actually died and came back, but that hell is where you experience exactly the like of what you did in this life. So that if you did bad stuff more than good stuff, a force of negativity, then you'll get that round back on you, and if you did more good than bad, a force of positivity, you'll be rewarded by peace, paradise, nirvana, heaven whatever.

quote:Originally posted by AstronomyDomine:

I think it sounds perfectly logical, and I agree. Personally, I don't believe in hell. Actually back when I went to church (catholic), my priest had told me that there really was no hell, and that it was really just more of a scare tactic. Also, I remember reading that the concept of hell didn't come into the bible until much later writings. (maybe someone else can elaborate on that)



Hell has been a concept in existence for a very long time and across the entire world prior to Christianity and even Judaism in places such as China, Mongolia, and other ancient civilizations such as Egypt where ones heart was weighed for their afterlife and they would be judged.

It has been known and repeated through time that everyone is judged and those who did good get good and those who did bad get bad.

In Hinduism the prevailing belief is that one gets the recompense of what they did through karma, their punishment in the form of reincarnation as a lesser thing.

In some forms of Bhuddism there are various hells in which one goes to where demons torture them according to the deeds they did in life. The ultimate achievement being complete peace and ending the cycle through attaining Nirvana.

In China there are many hells in which one goes to, to experience various forms of torture and fear and fire.

In Mongolia there is a burning place greated by the Chief creator God in which all evil people are thrown.

Hell has been a concept for a long time and across the world, its nothing new, but its interesting to note how people have always had it.



[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 06-09-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by AstronomyDomine:

Personally, I don't believe in hell.

Neither do I in the sense that it is a boiling lake of fire. I do feel this was made up to scare people into not backlisiding into their previous pagan religions.

I do believe however that there is some kind of cosmic spanking if you will, or something like Sylvia Brown describes as the boomerang effect. If you are too bad then as soon as you die, you do a u-turn and are automatically reborn in a new body and have to go through all of this again. If you are really good you go straight through the tunnel or whatever it is and straight to whatever you percieve as heaven.



[This message has been edited by Nemisis (edited 06-09-2006).]

Because the idea gave the original authors of the Bible erections.

.... humans kill each other because of emotions and feelings or just because it makes them happy. They lie everyday. They hurt others. They are narcissists. Even the nice ones screw up, they still hurt others or have horrid thoughts or evil intent or you name it. No one is innocent that I have ever seen. I guess I am cynic but in this world i think it is required. In my humble oppinion all religions are the same. They are all centered around yourself. YOU have to gain a higher status, YOU have to do this or YOU have to do that. So even when they are helping people they are doing it for themselves. The only actual lifestyle that is any different is Christianity. That is, in its purity. I have read so many books and done so much research ..... Christianity is the only one that gives grace and tells you to simply love God and others. It is the only selfless one I have seen yet. IF you have diffirent oppinions please tell me. This is just what I have gotten so far.

Just on a side note, almost all of the buddists who belive they are about to reach nevana promise to come back, so they can teach others how to end suffering

Maybe this world is another planet's hell.

Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Maybe this world is another planet's hell.

Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)

Where's my Sub? Who ate my Sub?

Bill Cosby (1937 - )

quote:Originally posted by Niceguy:

Just on a side note, almost all of the buddists who belive they are about to reach nevana promise to come back, so they can teach others how to end suffering

There is no coming back from Nirvana as when one reaches Nirvana they do not have the anxiety that would drive them to return to help the others, but rather that the others should figure it out themselves.

Furthermore it is not difficult to attain daily Nirvana through the ways of Bhudda who taught them in the eightfold path of right action and stuff.

All Bhudda was saying is Suffering doesn't exist for you if you do things right. Suffering happens to those who do things wrong and think things wrong.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

There is no coming back from Nirvana as when one reaches Nirvana they do not have the anxiety that would drive them to return to help the others, but rather that the others should figure it out themselves.

Furthermore it is not difficult to attain daily Nirvana through the ways of Bhudda who taught them in the eightfold path of right action and stuff.

All Bhudda was saying is Suffering doesn't exist for you if you do things right. Suffering happens to those who do things wrong and think things wrong.

Only a selfish being would abscond from reality with peace and leave others to suffer alone. By doing so, they would be incapable of reaching Nirvana, unless one must be innately selfish to desire peace for themselves at the cost of others. Helping another to achieve peace is of greater recommend than achieving peace yourself, you know. You should learn a bit more about Buddhism as a practice rather than Buddhism as an idea. You cannot study a religion without wearing the shawl it gives you. No matter how long you stare at a coat, you can never understand what someone says about its comfort until you wear it yourself, even if only for a short while.

quote:Originally posted by Gorloche:

Only a selfish being would abscond from reality with peace and leave others to suffer alone. By doing so, they would be incapable of reaching Nirvana, unless one must be innately selfish to desire peace for themselves at the cost of others. Helping another to achieve peace is of greater recommend than achieving peace yourself, you know. You should learn a bit more about Buddhism as a practice rather than Buddhism as an idea. You cannot study a religion without wearing the shawl it gives you. No matter how long you stare at a coat, you can never understand what someone says about its comfort until you wear it yourself, even if only for a short while.

When you attain nirvana you lose sense of self, there is no coming back. It is not selfish, people have to attain it themselves. I can tell you a thousand ways and paths to attaining complete Nirvana, but you have to take the steps and find your own path as you are an individual.

Those who attain Nirvana are in "need" of nothing, that includes not being in "need" of coming back or telling people how to attain Nirvana, which isn't effective anyway as only an individual can find Nirvana through themselves, anothers path to Nirvana can not work on them.

You can attain Nirvana simply or through difficult self imposed trials, it is all up to you.

Those who attain complete Nirvana will never return, the cycle is completed for them and it is over, they have transcended and become one.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Maybe this world is another planet's hell.

Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963)

It's funny you brought that up. I was sitting here thinking this morning about a show that was once on that had the bad karate instructor from the "Karate Kid" movie in it. Then it hit me the title of the show was "doing time on planet earth"

I asked my friend if she had ever seen it. She replied no then asked what it was about. I told her and she said that sure would be weird if earth was some form of prison for other planets.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

When you attain nirvana you lose sense of self, there is no coming back. It is not selfish, people have to attain it themselves. I can tell you a thousand ways and paths to attaining complete Nirvana, but you have to take the steps and find your own path as you are an individual.

Those who attain Nirvana are in "need" of nothing, that includes not being in "need" of coming back or telling people how to attain Nirvana, which isn't effective anyway as only an individual can find Nirvana through themselves, anothers path to Nirvana can not work on them.

You can attain Nirvana simply or through difficult self imposed trials, it is all up to you.

Those who attain complete Nirvana will never return, the cycle is completed for them and it is over, they have transcended and become one.

My point remains: The ones who have reached Nirvana need nothing, but those who have not do. While you may be without need once you achieve Nirvana, you (the impersonal "you," not you in parrticular) are heartless to remove yourself from the system if you are so enlightened while others are still suffering. I am not arguing that you can't reach Nirvana without bringing the world with you, just that it would be selfish to an infinite degree to do so. That relays the innate nihilism of Buddhism: The world and its people mean nothing but suffering and total escape from it all is the greatest gift you can be given. However, by just changing the one detail of a man not allowing himself to reach Nirvana until all can, you render it into a religion of existentialism.

It's some big dirty secret that Nirvana is in all actuality is merely nothing more than absolute nonexistence.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 06-10-2006).]

With the buddhist thing, that is my point exactly. It is all about freeing yourself from everyone else. I guess it fits a narcissistic society.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

It's some big dirty secret that Nirvana is in all actuality is merely nothing more than absolute nonexistence.



Yep it can be translated as "Death"

quote:Originally posted by Truth is all:

With the buddhist thing, that is my point exactly. It is all about freeing yourself from everyone else. I guess it fits a narcissistic society.

You are freeing yourself of your ego... that isn't narcissist.

Hell is a dimension full of hate and fear (negative energy).

It does exist, it's the dimension just 1 level above our's.

Some souls that are full of hate may get trapped in there until they release that hate.

Extreme cases are that a soul becomes fully negative, then it will be trapped there until it finds a way to reverse it and move higher.

quote:Originally posted by sh0x0rz3r:

Hell is a dimension full of hate and fear (negative energy).

It does exist, it's the dimension just 1 level above our's.

Some souls that are full of hate may get trapped in there until they release that hate.

Extreme cases are that a soul becomes fully negative, then it will be trapped there until it finds a way to reverse it and move higher.

Where'd you get that from?

It sort of is a prison planet according to Scientology.



[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 06-12-2006).]

Is there even any mention of an afterlife in the Old Testament?

It actually mentions the opposite.

Job 7:9 - As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 - For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Isaiah 26:14 - They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased they shall not rise.

I believe we will be punished with pain after we die till our karma is paid. Then we are sent on to continue the path.

quote:Originally posted by coolwestman:

I believe we will be punished with pain after we die till our karma is paid. Then we are sent on to continue the path.

Purgatory?

If you are interested in this I recommend that you read "Memnoch teh devil". Yes, I know it is just a novel, but it offers a really interesting point of view about Hell.

quote:Originally posted by AstronomyDomine:

Purgatory?

Nah, we go through hell then we come out clean.