I don't get when I tell someone I'm not religous, I'm spiritual, that they look at me like I'm crazy. I know that my god, or how ever you religous freaks want to describe It, is not how you percieve god. I have formed my own opnions on god, through my view. I don't preach them, they are mine.

I set aside time, wednesday and Saturday. I do what ever I want, It is my break. I work on my spirit through gardening, listening to music, writing ETC. I guess its kinda like prayer, except I do it for my spirit, not a God like figure.

I understand exactly what you mean.

Gardening rules. I love watching things grow.

quote:Originally posted by bushy:

I don't get when I tell someone I'm not religous, I'm spiritual, that they look at me like I'm crazy. I know that my god, or how ever you religous freaks want to describe It, is not how you percieve god. I have formed my own opnions on god, through my view. I don't preach them, they are mine.

I set aside time, wednesday and Saturday. I do what ever I want, It is my break. I work on my spirit through gardening, listening to music, writing ETC. I guess its kinda like prayer, except I do it for my spirit, not a God like figure.

You're on to something. Better than jihads and crusades.

I figure if God needs, I'll do it. But he should better tell me when I am awake and not on drugs or I will forget. And its not like I don't believe in god as an entity. I've read the bible, I have read a lot of philosophy books, and spiriatual books. I like them both, but they seem to have the same thing going for them.

I use the spiritual ones more.

I feel the exact same way about spirituality.

I dont believe in the bible as a historical record of what happened, more as a book of stories with very valuable moral tales for how to live life.

I know my God, my spirituality, and dont need anyone to preach it to me or verify it for me.

Translation: I like the easy answers that religion gives, but I don't like the organized structure of religion which tells us what to do and how to think. I like to to have my cake and eat it to so to speak. And why shouldn't I?

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

Translation: I like the easy answers that religion gives, but I don't like the organized structure of religion which tells us what to do and how to think. I like to to have my cake and eat it to so to speak. And why shouldn't I?

Aparantly, you just dont get it. But thats fine. I dont expect people to understand, and I really dont care.

O RLY?

Jesus christ, I Wish I wasn't high... I agree with you right now.... but normally i'd think this is really stupid. I would be saying comments like "take my cake and eat it" or whatever that douche said up there.

quote:Originally posted by dead_people_killer:

Aparantly, you just dont get it. But thats fine. I dont expect people to understand, and I really dont care.

I don't get it, but you conveniently cannot explain it, and you conveniently "dont care." How convenient for you. That pretty much sums up your beliefs--conveniet.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

I don't get it, but you conveniently cannot explain it, and you conveniently "dont care." How convenient for you. That pretty much sums up your beliefs--conveniet.

Think what you wish. I dont have to explain myself to you. You can claim convenience all you want, It doesnt change anything. Even if I did explain it to you, you would simply come up with something else to try to debunk what I say. But it doesnt matter. I dont care if you dont believe what I believe. You dont have to in order for me to.

quote:Originally posted by dead_people_killer:

Think what you wish. I dont have to explain myself to you. You can claim convenience all you want, It doesnt change anything. Even if I did explain it to you, you would simply come up with something else to try to debunk what I say. But it doesnt matter. I dont care if you dont believe what I believe. You dont have to in order for me to.

That's pretty much exactly what people who believe in all sorts of paranomal phenomena say. Generally demonstrative of closemindedness. Nothing can convince you to change your beliefs...and you dont hide that fact at all. [another piece of the puzzle falls into place...sometimes I suprise myself]

DPK, I enjoying pointing it out when people claim to have some truth or understanding yet refuse to present it for criticism. You hardly even describe your spirituality, why is that? I haven't tried to "debunk" anything that you said (because what you presented was far too vague to debunk). I simply called your motives into question.

In my humble opinion, spiritual experience can be had by anyone of any religion or lack there of. And in my humble opinion, the goal of spirituality should be to find ones true self, identity, purpose, whatever. You may have accomplished that in a very infantile way or you may not have accomplished it at all. It's impossible to say because you don't present your beliefs.

I will suggest to you, however futile this suggestion may be (because I doubt you will follow any suggestion from me), that you actually think about what you believe and why you believe it. Truly and honestly analyze yourself, your emotions, fears, your purpose, everything that makes you you....



Maybe then you wont feel the need to come on totse and whine about people misunderstanding you.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

That's pretty much exactly what people who believe in all sorts of paranomal phenomena say. Generally demonstrative of closemindedness. Nothing can convince you to change your beliefs...and you dont hide that fact at all. [another piece of the puzzle falls into place...sometimes I suprise myself]

Aparantly, you feel uncomfortable with the fact that I wont spell out for you what I believe, so you attack me for a belief you know nothing about. I dont hide the fact that I could give a fuck less about you liking my beliefs or my decision to disclose them to you. Call me closed-minded if you wish, I have my beliefs due to my own experience, and they arent so fragile that I change them because someone else comes along and says something that I dont like. If you dont like what I believe, too fucking bad.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

DPK, I enjoying pointing it out when people claim to have some truth or understanding yet refuse to present it for criticism. You hardly even describe your spirituality, why is that? I haven't tried to "debunk" anything that you said (because what you presented was far too vague to debunk). I simply called your motives into question.

I call into question your reasoning for being so concerned with my beliefs? what do you care? Does it bother you that I dont tell you what I believe? I think it does.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

In my humble opinion, spiritual experience can be had by anyone of any religion or lack there of. And in my humble opinion, the goal of spirituality should be to find ones true self, identity, purpose, whatever. You may have accomplished that in a very infantile way or you may not have accomplished it at all. It's impossible to say because you don't present your beliefs.

I agree with your assertion that a spiritual experience can be had by anyone, but I dont believe religion has anything to do with it. I do have to say, however, that your assertion that I have accomplished a "very infantile" accomplishment of my own spirituality shows just how arrogant and ignorant you truly are.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

I will suggest to you, however futile this suggestion may be (because I doubt you will follow any suggestion from me), that you actually think about what you believe and why you believe it. Truly and honestly analyze yourself, your emotions, fears, your purpose, everything that makes you you....

Once again, your arrogance and ignorance shows through in that you think that your suggestion is going to somehow help me achieve a greater understanding of something.

You have no idea whether I have done what you suggest, yet you feel it necessary to dictate to me how I should come to a spiritual experience.

M quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

maybe then you wont feel the need to come on totse and whine about people misunderstanding you.

I dont whine about anything. I simply have the advantage of experience. I have explained my beliefs to orthodox christians many times and they look at me like I am retarded when I say that I dont believe in organized religion.

My question to you is this: Who the fuck are you to judge my spiritual belief, especially when, as you have made painfully obvious, you know nothing about it?

quote:Originally posted by dead_people_killer:

Aparantly, you feel uncomfortable with the fact that I wont spell out for you what I believe, so you attack me for a belief you know nothing about. I dont hide the fact that I could give a fuck less about you liking my beliefs or my decision to disclose them to you. Call me closed-minded if you wish, I have my beliefs due to my own experience, and they arent so fragile that I change them because someone else comes along and says something that I dont like. If you dont like what I believe, too fucking bad.

Sir, I have not attacked you for any of your beliefs. I merely pointed out that the comment you made is demonstrative of closemindedness. You basically said that nothing can convince you to change your beliefs and at the same time you dont present your beliefs to criticim. Those two factors make you close minded, in my humble opinion.

quote:I call into question your reasoning for being so concerned with my beliefs? what do you care? Does it bother you that I dont tell you what I believe? I think it does.

I am not concerned with your beliefs or knowing what your beliefs are, what I am concerned with is people who 1) aren't willing to present their beliefs for criticism and 2) are closeminded. You need not take this personal, because it has nothing to do with you or your beliefs. It has to do with those two factors in general.

quote:I agree with your assertion that a spiritual experience can be had by anyone, but I dont believe religion has anything to do with it. I do have to say, however, that your assertion that I have accomplished a "very infantile" accomplishment of my own spirituality shows just how arrogant and ignorant you truly are.

It's not arrogance or ignorance. And I never said you didn't have a spiritual experience, I said you didnt have the that I described. How can you know yourself if you are not will to express yourself or you beliefs? I am talking about true honesty and openess. It is possible that I am wrong, and that you may only act like this online. I accept that possibility, but in the realm of the internet we only meet the facade that is presented, and thus and criticism I make of you is based on your facade.

quote:Once again, your arrogance and ignorance shows through in that you think that your suggestion is going to somehow help me achieve a greater understanding of something.

You have no idea whether I have done what you suggest, yet you feel it necessary to dictate to me how I should come to a spiritual experience.

M

No friend, I was not dictating to you on how to have a spiritual experience. I was suggesting you be honest and open with yourself because that will open the doors for you to be honest and open with others. Including putting your beliefs out in to the open and risking criticism. It will give you the strength to take that criticism and learn from it.

quote:I dont whine about anything. I simply have the advantage of experience. I have explained my beliefs to orthodox christians many times and they look at me like I am retarded when I say that I dont believe in organized religion.

Well that was a poor choice, you chose some of the most closeminded people on the planet to explain your beliefs.

quote:My question to you is this: Who the fuck are you to judge my spiritual belief, especially when, as you have made painfully obvious, you know nothing about it?

Sir, I have not judged your beliefs. Please point out where I have done so if you can. I judged your closedmindedness and you unwillingness to open your beliefs to criticism.

Well, since you put it like that, You sir, are the closed minded one. Believing that one can have a spiritual experience and not want to be open about it to unknown people on a message board on the internet. That is your belief. I have discussed my beliefs with many people face to face, and have been confronted with many reactions. If you want to have a serious discussion, I would love to. I dont, however, think this is the medium for such a discussion. IM services would suffice as it allows for a much more personal and interactive experience, which is more appropriate for such a discussion, in my opinion. You can gather what you wish from it.

quote:Originally posted by dead_people_killer:

Well, since you put it like that, You sir, are the closed minded one. Believing that one can have a spiritual experience and not want to be open about it to unknown people on a message board on the internet. That is your belief. I have discussed my beliefs with many people face to face, and have been confronted with many reactions. If you want to have a serious discussion, I would love to. I dont, however, think this is the medium for such a discussion. IM services would suffice as it allows for a much more personal and interactive experience, which is more appropriate for such a discussion, in my opinion. You can gather what you wish from it.

No offence to intrude, but what ARE your beliefs? Mine I keep private, unless somebody asks me mine.

And to Real.Pua:

What the HELL are you discussing about? How can DPK be closeminded when he never says anything along the lines of "you can't penetrate my psychological armor".

I have to agree with DPK on this. There have been plenty of spiritual people whose views/beliefs do not coincide with organized religion, therefore it is not necessary to intermingle attending religious services weekly with spirituality.

Well, for starters, I dont believe that the bible is a literal account of anything. I dont believe that it is a historical record, but more of a "manual" on how to live life, filled with stories that have a moral lesson to teach. I look at it as a good book to look to if you are confused about life, but not as a historical record, and certainly not the "word of God".

I also believe that one should worship one's God by being humble, not dressing up in your finest to impress everyone. I believe that you dont need to dedicate time each week to worship, rather worship through action. If you do that, church is worthless.

I also have qualms with the convention of prayer, as it pertains to people using it for a call of help. I believe that talking with God is a good thing, but I dont believe that God wants us to be so afraid. I believe in speaking with God as a friend and mentor rather than a holy tyrant.

These are just a few of my beliefs, and I have come to them after years of searching myself. When I was 15, my mom died, and since she was the only one to raise me (as my father had died a month before I was born), she was one of the most important people in my life. When she died, I had a severe crisis of faith. I searched religions for answers, and found none, (even got called an asshole by a preacher) and turned to my own judgement as to what I believed. I have been much happier since.

Your preacher called you an asshole... and your parents died? Ouch... religion can be a pain. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

What do you (Bush or DPK or whoever else) believe God is since you seem to recognize it as an entity of some kind? Could you explain or describe it a lil bit in your view?

So basically you relax from time to time and you want to call that 'God'. Well, whatever floats your boat, but I don't see what's wrong with just using the word 'relaxation' :-/. Everywhere I see people trying to apply the word 'god' to things they like, why can't they just accept that things are nice without having to add all sorts of other connotations, like we can't enjoy things for what they are?

"Spirituality"

For people smart enough to realise that the earth wasnt made in 7 days, but for people who are still too dumb/scared to accept there is no god, "divine" purpose or afterlife.

Get over it bitches, and by the way, that guy in the red suit wasnt santa, it was a child molestor.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

Translation: I like the easy answers that religion gives, but I don't like the organized structure of religion which tells us what to do and how to think. I like to to have my cake and eat it to so to speak. And why shouldn't I?



You seem like one of the rare intelligent posters on totse, too bad these people will just go "OMGZOR U HAV A CLOSED MIND SO U CNT UNDERSTAND IT LIEK ME!!"

Spirituality is so fucking vague it makes Feng Shui look like fucking astrophysics.

quote:Originally posted by dead_people_killer:

I believe that talking with God is a good thing, but I dont believe that God wants us to be so afraid. I believe in speaking with God as a friend and mentor rather than a holy tyrant.



You're either a loser if you talk and dont get an answer or you're a schizophreniac.

Imaginary friends went out of style in preschool.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

and dont get an answer or you're a schizophreniac.

Imaginary friends went out of style in preschool.

Yeah "dead people killer", you're a Shizophreniac!

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

"Spirituality"

For people smart enough to realise that the earth wasnt made in 7 days, but for people who are still too dumb/scared to accept there is no god, "divine" purpose or afterlife.

Get over it bitches, and by the way, that guy in the red suit wasnt santa, it was a child molestor.

Are you for real?

People who do have philosophies and ideas on the afterlife are utilizing their brain... unlike you.

And btw, numbnuts, only christian children believe in Santa Claus... not spiritualists.

Get a life, troll ( and a spirit http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) ) .

Everyone is spiritual--if you make a common act of breathing, anyway.

quote:Originally posted by Xerxes89:

Are you for real?

People who do have philosophies and ideas on the afterlife are utilizing their brain... unlike you.

And btw, numbnuts, only christian children believe in Santa Claus... not spiritualists.

Get a life, troll ( and a spirit http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) ) .

You're a fucking dumbass. I was using Santa claus as an example of fairy tale bullshit that there is no proof for, in its similarity to gods, spirits, ghosts, and any other supernatural bullshit people tell themselves.

Do you not think there is a reason no philosophies/religions have no kind of life after death?

Its because HUMANS have a high level of SENTIENCE so they realise that they are ALIVE and that soon they will DIE.

All life has the instinct for survival, otherwise it would die out as it would have no reason to want to live.

So what do you think happens when a sentient being thinks about death. He or she SHITS ONE.

There MUST be something after death, we can't know what happens after death so there MUST be something, why, I cant possibly just be a random assortment of atoms and my concious mind is just a collection of chemical and electrical signals, that would be TERRIBLE.

Yes, people who believe in afterlife really are using their brain.

Do we assume trees have spirits?

Do we assume a dog has a spirit?

Do we assume a ant has a spirit?

Do we assume a microbe has a spirit?

There is NO evidence to support the idea of a soul or spirit

Get a fucking medical textbook and point out the soul. Then maybe I will change my mind.

Funny how retards who refuse to analyse evidence and logic always accuse other people of being. 'Narrow Minded'.

I, did not come into this world with any preferences. I do not think of idea like heaven and go "Boy, that is a great idea, i will just choose to believe that".

I look at the facts.

I look at all the history of evolution and life and realise man is just a complex animal.

I have a moderate knowledge of chemistry, physics and biology, and know our brains are just complex biological computers that use chemicals and electrical signals to transport information.

I have never seen anything that could only be attributed to a spirit or god. I have never seen or heard anything to indicate otherwise that all that happens when you die is you cease to exist.



Why is there not a pre-life if there is an afterlife.

WHEN YOU DIE YOU DONT EXIST

BEFORE YOU ARE CONCEIVED YOU DONT EXIST

Now maybe im just being a 'OMG CLOZ MINDED NUMNUT LOL!!' but something tells me that whatever happens when there are no electrical and chemical transmissions in my brain is much like what happens when i have no brain to have transmissions in.

Just admit you are a fucking pussy who is scared of death, and while you're at it, point to one religion that has a creator but no afterlife.

Religion is an obvious invention of mankind. If other people can invent religions different to your own, but all seem to cover the same areas (origin of the universe, afterlife, morality), then IT IS A FUCKING SAFE BET that these are just fucking MYTHS AND STORIES like the old religions that believed in giants in the sky and dragons in the sea.

If you are going to believe in a religion or some vague fucking bullshit like spirituality at least find out the ORIGINAL religion and follow that.

You retards make me sick. Realise you are not a fucking special or unique 'being'. You are just like a monkey or a dog.

Communication and imagination are all present in other less intelligent forms of life, Religion, art, music, love, anger, these are all an evolutionary product of our biological design. Pick up a fucking science journal once in a while and stop living in the land of MYSTIKAL ENRGEEZ!!!

[This message has been edited by -Mephisto- (edited 06-17-2006).]

Just to add to what i just said. Never in the history of science has something that had been attributed to something that you can't see or measure ever turned out to be true.

There is no 'ether' in space. God does not keep the 'sun in the sky'. Diseases aren't 'the devil'/'demons'.

If you cant measure it or see it, it doesnt FUCKING EXIST.

Thermal energy we can measure. Electrical energy we can measure. We can measure radio waves and infrared light.

WE CANT MEASURE A FUCKING GHOST INSIDE YOUR BODY.

If afterlife is so great kill yourself now. Do me a fucking favour and leave me to my 'life' in peace without you fucking dumbasses crashing cars and buying guards for "cell phone radiation".

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:



Communication and imagination are all present in other less intelligent forms of life, Religion, art, music, love, anger, these are all an evolutionary product of our biological design. Pick up a fucking science journal once in a while and stop living in the land of MYSTIKAL ENRGEEZ!!!



Ants don't have religion, art, music, love, or anger. Most of those things if not all are unnessesary to survival. You see any monkeys worship lately? Show me that in your scientific journal.

"so the monkeys worshipped the all mighty banana vine"

Not gunna happen.

Only humans have religion. It is not nessessary for survival and is in no way a product for evolution.

I don't see how religion has anything to do with being a product of evolution. Evolution exists without religion, and religion trys to exist without evolution (though it fails greatly).

Before suggesting a scientific journal, maybe you, just maybe you could learn what your talking about.

Just a suggestion.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

Just to add to what i just said. Never in the history of science has something that had been attributed to something that you can't see or measure ever turned out to be true.

There is no 'ether' in space. God does not keep the 'sun in the sky'. Diseases aren't 'the devil'/'demons'.

If you cant measure it or see it, it doesnt FUCKING EXIST.

Thermal energy we can measure. Electrical energy we can measure. We can measure radio waves and infrared light.

WE CANT MEASURE A FUCKING GHOST INSIDE YOUR BODY.

If afterlife is so great kill yourself now. Do me a fucking favour and leave me to my 'life' in peace without you fucking dumbasses crashing cars and buying guards for "cell phone radiation".

On the contrary theorietical physics has made great strides in describing things we cannot see. Look at the string theory.

Before you blindly bash it. Albert Einstein (theoritical physicist) said light would bend, because of mathematics, people ignored him till it an eclipse of the sun proved him correct. It is possible to use mathematics to predict things we cannot see or directly measure.

This is where creationism, the religous "science" falls apart, where is the underlying mathematics. Most claims can be proved wrong using, or showing the lack of, mathematics.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

There MUST be something after death, we can't know what happens after death so there MUST be something, why, I cant possibly just be a random assortment of atoms and my concious mind is just a collection of chemical and electrical signals, that would be TERRIBLE.



Death is merely unconsciousness, and total death is the complete destruction of the human body. However, my belief, or your belief, does not change the natural order. You think I believe I am "death-o-phobic", but I consider the transferrance "natural". If I "do not exist", then let it be done, but what IF life transcends death? Prove to me that this world isn't inside a bigger world. You can't - and neither can I otherwise.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

There is NO evidence to support the idea of a soul or spirit



No shit? The only thing considered "evidence" is experiences by other's first-hand experiences, such as: ascension, enlightenment, meditation, oneness, etc.

It would be natural for the fish INSIDE the water to only VIEW the atmosphere, not touch it. Spirituality only makes people SEE the atmosphere, only death, the real proof, shows us any "evidence".

Besides, String Theory states that there are over 11 dimensions. What if our consciousness goes between dimensions, minus the fact that there is no empirical proof of this.

BTW, there have been NDE ( Near Death Experience ), OOBE ( Out of Body Experience ) that shows peoples' consciousness can go outside their selves. Many people had otherwise extraordinary experiences, where they "knew things" their physical brains would not normaly have known; thus, precognition, psychism, and telepathy.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:



Get a fucking medical textbook and point out the soul. Then maybe I will change my mind.



Explain me this. How can you teach a blind man the experience of seeing? Since the experience of "spirit" is impossible to comprehend in the physical world, how would you conceptualize it?

And the medical books of the 11th century talked about "Bleeding", which is incorrect medical procedure nowadays. Your logic of "Medical book having omniscience" is ridiculous.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:



I look at all the history of evolution and life and realise man is just a complex animal.



What is above, is also below. All energy cannot be created, but transferred. The Big Bang's energy came from somewhere, but where?

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:



WHEN YOU DIE YOU DONT EXIST

BEFORE YOU ARE CONCEIVED YOU DONT EXIST

Just admit you are a fucking pussy who is scared of death, and while you're at it, point to one religion that has a creator but no afterlife.



Since you came from nowhere, and will go to "non-existance", you have no possible reason to exist. This is fatalism, whatever you do in this world, you will not share its experience after you die. Why don't you just die... now? I will help you?

Why don't I die now? Because life is an educational experience to me. It also gives me the opportunity to make other people's life better.

In conclusion, you are nothing but a group of atoms, please end your puny existence as fast as possible http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif).

[This message has been edited by Xerxes89 (edited 06-18-2006).]

Knowing that there might be a metaphysical world is as about as useful as a drowning sailor knowing water is H20.

oh, and why do people confuse immortality with meaning? You can live forever and still have no meaning in your life.

Just because this life is meaningless and the only one you'll have does not mean it's not worth living to the end.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

What do you (Bush or DPK or whoever else) believe God is since you seem to recognize it as an entity of some kind? Could you explain or describe it a lil bit in your view?

Kinda like an entity, more like your soul.

Doing things that bring me joy EG: Today I bought plants, and planted them in my garden. I drew on my courtyard, I smoked 1/8 of weed, and I took a nap. Today was a really good day. TADA!!!