Retards or just in denial?

I can't decide.

Some people are REALLY fucking stupid. Some even call evolution "atheists god".

Can any ex-religious types tell me if you were just being retarded or were you just scared about the obvious flaws in your religion.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

Retards or just in denial?

I can't decide.

Some people are REALLY fucking stupid. Some even call evolution "atheists god".

Can any ex-religious types tell me if you were just being retarded or were you just scared about the obvious flaws in your religion.



There are very few ex-creationists. Most are too self-righteous to admit even the possibility of being mistaken, or too stupid to understand evolution.

I talked one of my creationist friends out of it though. He was just very stupid and had no reasoning whatsoever. He basically said he just didn't like evolution.

Now, though, he says he doesn't believe in creation or evolution. I think he is mentally 'evolving' though.

I give him credit, however, for being intellectually honest enough to admit that he was wrong.

Still, he was just very stupid and would only see the connections he wanted to see.

*Cuffs hands over ears and yells* GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT...

[This message has been edited by Q777 (edited 06-15-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

*Cuffs hands over ears and yells* GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT GOD DID IT...



Pretty much. Either that or they pick and choose a few facts that seem to present what they want to be true.

But...but... they've found carbon-dated mollusks at 20,000 years old!

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Why don't they just say God created the process of evolution?

Because he didn't.

According to Genesis he created us as we are, I think.

Or at least we were created in his own image, so unless he is a monkey it doesn't hold up.

quote:Originally posted by Aeroue:

Because he didn't.

According to Genesis he created us as we are, I think.

Or at least we were created in his own image, so unless he is a monkey it doesn't hold up.

Couldn't the Image statement be a reflection of our minds and personalities?

Are we all loving?

quote:Originally posted by Adorkable:

But...but... they've found carbon-dated mollusks at 20,000 years old!

And then they figure out what screwed up the carbon dating.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

Can any ex-religious types tell me if you were just being retarded or were you just scared about the obvious flaws in your religion.

I'd imagine if I had to pick from the two, I'd say I was being retarded. There's alot of "creationist propoganda" that I bought into because I hadn't exposed myself to science. I mean, you listen to a preacher tell you all about Jesus, and you read your Bible and say "Yeah, this guy interprets the scripture right" and it establishes a level of credibility you grant him. So when he gets on the podium and starts telling "facts" about radiometric dating being inaccurate, you just accept them.

The whole thing is built on pseudo-science you believe 1) Because you have to believe it. It's part of the Bible, and the Bible can't be wrong. and 2) Because you feel you've obtained the knowledge from credible sources. There is an certain level of trust Christians already place in each other. So if a Christian friend says "Oh, I heard from James Dobson that radiocarbon dating works for only up to 60,000 years, and anything beyond that is just flawed guess-work", and you don't have the scientific background to know that there are 11 types of radiometric dating and it's actually quite accurate when used properly, you just accept it.

So yeah, I'd say it's just being retarded.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

And then they figure out what screwed up the carbon dating.



You can prove creationism wrong without involving evolution or carbon dating.

Here is a quote of what I said in other threads.

quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

Thank you for being reasonable and planning on responding to these points unlike other christians on this site. I would like to point out that these are POINTS AGAINST CREATIONISM NOT INVOLVING EVOLUTION. I will post what I said in the last post to make it obvious that it in no way has anything to do with evolution.

"Present provable evidence for Intelligent Design or Creationism, whichever you believe in, specifically the act of creating and intervening, how it is scientifically possible and observable, with the mathematics supporting it.

(Nothing to do with evolution)

This is clearly asking for mathematics behind creationism, proof of how creationion and intervention is possible using physics and mathematics to support your claim.



How the light traveling distances farther than possible in the amount of time given by the creationist model, could occur.



(Nothing to do with evolution)

This is asking for an explanation of how light can travel more light years than it's speed in a vacume allows it to if the creationism idea of the age of the universe is correct

Why the universe is constantly changing and new stars and galaxies are being born at this time if the universe was born in about it's present state 6000 years ago?

(Nothing to do with evolution)

This has to do with why if the universe was created in it's present state 6000 years ago, how could it be changing so much that it would be logical to think it has been changing forever.

Why no non-creationist/non-religous scientific source agrees with your age of the universe?

(Nothing to do with evolution)

This has only to do with scientific integrity. For example why would nasa, and the majority of scientists all over the world have using scientific techniques determined the relative age of the universe that is commonly agreed upon, yet the only people who don't agree and "theologist scientists" who found what they call science based on thier own belief system.

Please answer these questions with the mathematics backing up your responces, and or claims.

Here I am specifically asking for a mathematic equation behind any creationist claims you make

Thank you."

As you can see NONE of that has to do with a creationist/evolution debate. It has to do with how, if possible, your religions claims could be correct. Also I never said your faith wasn't good in the sence that it helps people cope with loss and deal with stresses. What I am saying is scientifically I doubt your religion is correct. Many attemps have been made normally though incorrect scientific methodes, or just plain deception, that claim to prove creationism, but they wither in the light of science.

This would be no big deal if religous authorities(sp?) did not suppress scientific achievment and certain theories just because they don't agree with thier personal beliefs.

That is wrong, logically, and intellegently speaking, and information should not be denied to those who wish to learn. Your religion actually has a long history of supressing science and waging wars and witch hunts. The crusades killed a great number of people, something which I do not agree with.



I do not believe in killing human beings and bringing pain and suffering to people, no matter how rightous you or any god, president, general, pope or movie says it is.



Those are some of the problems with your religion, not including paradoxes and contradictions, which I may get to later.

I still await your reply which should be unrelated to evolution.

quote:Originally posted by -Mephisto-:

Retards or just in denial?

I can't decide.

I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the two. I heard a Muslim man preaching creationism the other week, and he had the wrong end of the stick entirely (which goes for everyone I've heard defending it).

They say a lot of things like "It couldn't have happened by chance, we couldn't just have appeared here like this, you're saying this was an ACCIDENT?" etc. Which shows an obvious lack of understanding.

And what is worse, no inclination to further their knowledge. It's insulting.

Jx

http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/

This should answer the argument for the "Creationists" side. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

But, yes, it IS retarded, lol.

quote:Originally posted by Wavecrest:

http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/

This should answer the argument for the "Creationists" side. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

But, yes, it IS retarded, lol.



that must be a spoof site!

Religious truth should not come in conflict with science, and doesn't for me.

quote:Originally posted by kenwih:



that must be a spoof site!

Nope! This is just the kids' version, but there are links to the rest of the site. Honest!

EVEN THAT WEBSITE IS CAPABLE OF THE TRUTH:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Abrahim_Esker/t785.jpg

I still can't tell if that site is for real.

quote:Originally posted by Wavecrest:

Nope! This is just the kids' version, but there are links to the rest of the site. Honest!

No its a spoof site. I made the same mistake when I first saw it.

it says it a spoof site in this wikiepdia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBJECTIVE:_Christian_Ministries and this totse thread http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/005547.html

quote:Originally posted by Wavecrest: [URL=http: //objectiv eministrie s.org/kidz /]http://o bjectivemi nistries.o rg/kidz/[/ URL]

The funniest things on that site:

Fun fact #8 question - too damned funny.

Fun fact #8 answer - Even FUNNIER!

Spiritual Safety Tip - its just hilarious.

The dress up thing. its just too damned funny....especially how you can make the damned sheep look fucked up.

Eh, I thought it wasn't. Sorry, lol, but it is good for a laugh.

The scary thing though... Creationists really DO believe things like that... even if the site's a spoof.

I guess that marks me as an "Evolutionist" even though I'm Catholic. Oh well. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Religious truth should not come in conflict with science, and doesn't for me.

You think the Koran contains divine scientific miracles...that means there is a conflict.

You're a fool. Many, many people don't have an actual full understanding of ither one. They have a lot of details and little things to learn.

People who don't understand the concept of ither, well now we may have a problem there. As far as being able to say you have total knowladge of them both isn't common for many.

I think creatonists don't have enough faith in god.Imagine saying every fossil is part of some big conspiracy.If god is all powerfull he could have speeded up or slowed down time so all this is moot.Newton had to deal with the jesuits 77 reasons the sun revolves around the earth.

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

You think the Koran contains divine scientific miracles...that means there is a conflict.

I don't agree, the only "miracle" about it is the information came from a guy who supposedly was uneducated (according to the Qur'an), though his actual history is unknown and unverifiable. The information was a little bit ahead of its widely accepted time perhaps, all knowledge and truth is "divine".