What is it that you all look forward too? Life is meaningless if there is nothing after we die. You all seem like deep thinkers so wrap your mind around this. If there is no afterlife then what are you here for? You are simply a random biological entity in a universe that is so much bigger than you that you are no more than a pen prick. We are nothing more than thinking animals. We all come to the same end and whatever we amounted to in life means nothing when we are dead. Which brings me to my next question: Why live like anything more than an animal? There is no point, you amount to nothing more for you each die. Tell me if there is any hope or if there is none. For if there is none life is truly meaningless and people have every right to despair for we are the gods of this planet .

i do agree with this. restricting your life and natural born desires on the basis of "faith" that some disapproving higher power exists- it's wrong to me.

Life is very short. If there is nothing, no after-life in the end, my refraining from all the sins i wanted to commit would have been in vain.

quote:Originally posted by 10000teeth:

i do agree with this. restricting your life and natural born desires on the basis of "faith" that some disapproving higher power exists- it's wrong to me.

Life is very short. If there is nothing, no after-life in the end, my refraining from all the sins i wanted to commit would have been in vain.

What sins do you want to commit?

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

What sins do you want to commit?

Sex before marriage for one . . .

I don't want to live like an animal,

because I am not an animal. We are so much more.

It does not matter if you are just a tiny pen prick in the universe. You're the center of your own universe.

Maybe there is an afterlife, if there is not then the anti-climax would be unforgivable.

You are an animal, you’re the species known as ‘human’. Just because you’re an animal doesn’t mean you have to live like a dog, just like a dog doesn’t act like a cat and a cat doesn’t act like a bird. Fuck, man.

Suppose it depends how you set your definitions.

Still I do not think we are just animals, there is more to us than that.

[This message has been edited by Aeroue (edited 06-18-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Aeroue:

there is more to us than that.

Why do you believe that? Humanity's arrogance astounds me.

Because we create.

Seen a dog paint the Mona Lisa?

Could bears build the Empire State?

Do monkeys have the Internet?

On top of that we have rational thought, which many if not all animals lack. We can think and plan ahead.

More importantly we choose what we want to do. We control our own destiny, we have more than our instincts.

Oh, you are a fool.

Monkeys can plan ahead. Did you know monkeys have politics? Monkeys have made tools for hunting, simple tools, but tools nonetheless. So have some birds. A beaver creates when it builds a damn, a bird creates when it builds a nest. To think what you are doing is better than what they are doing is sheer arrogance.

Yes, we can paint, but what is painting excep smudging liquids together that dry and then interpreting the result as an image? Seriously, we are simply an evolved species. Just because we can do more than most species does not mean there is some mystical reasoning to it.



[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 06-18-2006).]

Also, you think animals don’t choose? An animal chooses what it eats, an animal chooses where it lies down at night to sleep, an animal chooses where it pisses; hamsters often PICK an area in their cage and then use it as a toilet.

No one is in control of their destiny, because the only destiny we have is to live and continue moving towards death. Everything else is superfluous and painful or enjoyable.

quote:Originally posted by Truth is all:

If there is no afterlife then what are you here for?

That is just. Stupid. I can't think of a better word.

Why assume we need a purpose in life?

Jx

Calling me a fool really strengthened your argument and helped to prove your point.

I have to admit as I was posting beavers flashed through my mind. You win on that point.

Art is a lot more than smudging liquid. It is abstract thought, which I do not believe animals are capable of.

I never said there was any mystical reasoning.

Also all the things you claim to be choices, are not. They are blatantly instinct or not choice.

Choosing what to eat, they don't they take what they get. A lion isn't going to decide no I don't want to eat antelope today, I'm waiting till I see a zebra.

They try to sleep somewhere safe so they don't die.

And hamsters don't piss everywhere because then then they would have to sleep in it. They don't want to die either.

They make all these decisions because animals have one main line of thought, self preservation, this is just instinct.

And yes we are just more evolved, but I think we have evolved to a higher level. Or maybe I just have an overoptimistic opinion of us.

Sorry for takin the thread kinda off topic.

quote:And yes we are just more evolved, but I think we have evolved to a higher level. Or maybe I just have an overoptimistic opinion of us.There’s no such thing as “evolving to a higher level,” that’s just arrogance. We’ve simply evolved, and that’s it. There’s nothing special about humans, when will people get that through their heads?

quote:Originally posted by Truth is all:

Which brings me to my next question: Why live like anything more than an animal? There is no point, you amount to nothing more for you each die. Tell me if there is any hope or if there is none. For if there is none life is truly meaningless and people have every right to despair for we are the gods of this planet .

Established: There is no point. We exist, devoid of any meaning other than what we assign to it ourselves. Just like every other living organism - we die in the end. We're lucky (or cursed, some might feel) to be on a higher intellectual rung than any other species. Regardless of all the intellectual meaning we might bring to this life, once our concsiousness fizzes out, that meaning has evaporated and the Universe STILL finds a way to go on without us.

If living like an animal seems more appealing to you than living like a thinking human being, then why not do it? There isn't much wrong with how animals live. For the most part, they are devoid of most undesirable personality traits of some people. Their advantage, if it could be said that there were a real advantage, is that they aren't at odds with themselves about the nature of their existence. They just are. No need to contemplate it, just react to it! Zero complexity for these simple beings.

However, you're stuck being a thinking human being, and it seems completely natural to ponder about your place in this Universe. But why despair? You know full well that we were thrust into this life without asking for it. You've realized that our meaning is absolutely devoid of anything, save for what we might put into it. You have already began to recognize that death is final, that this is the only shot you will have at experiencing. But why despair? You've come to terms with the fact that there is no pre-determined Divine Plan that has already sketched out your experiences. You are bright enough to realize that "meaning" is what you define it as, nothing less or more. Why despair??

Make the best of it. Enjoy being on a higher intellectual level than an animal. Use all the energy you pour into your existential musings to create a standard of living that you enjoy. Don't let your intellect become your biggest obstacle! Use it to benefit you, not to confuse you.

Want to feel special, and unique, and prescribe yourself "purpose"? What's stopping you?!??! You're as good as you feel.

What's amazing to me is not that we are existing without purpose, but that we are actually at odds with ourselves because we insist on defining a purpose. Nothing will feel as intimate and righteous as the feelings you conjur up inside your head based on your own personal experience.

Everything else you're trying to latch onto (religion, a Divine Plan, the promise of an afterlife)- are all symbiotic of the feelings you are capable of producing in your own mind!. What more are you hoping for? That someone or something else created you, thereby giving you something to hope for, like possibly a re-creation again after you expire? Is one go-around not enough? What makes you think that you wouldn't be the same intellectually tortured being wondering about "what's next?" in the Afterlife?

That "hope" you are coveting is drowning out your sense of humor and the abilility to marvel at life's absurdities. Get those back, redefine "hope", accept things that happen beyond your control, and you might find yourself a new threshhold of living that you may come to thoroughly enjoy.

Like Adrenechrome said, we are on this ride whether we like it or not. We are reactionary beings, and everything we feel is going to warrant some kind of representational "meaning" inside our heads.

Why add to the complexity? Just accept that you ARE, and live like there is no "tomorrow", after you die. I see cause to celebrate, not despair.

I want to die knowing that I did everything I could while I was alive to eke the most out of my existence. If there's more to come, great! I'll hopefully get to experience it with the same awe, amusement, and absurd pleasure that I did in the previous life. If not, then a lifetime wasn't wasted feeling sorry for myself that I couldn't derive more meaning from it.

/long rant over coffee after just waking up

quote:Originally posted by Truth is all:

What is it that you all look forward too? Life is meaningless if there is nothing after we die. You all seem like deep thinkers so wrap your mind around this. If there is no afterlife then what are you here for? You are simply a random biological entity in a universe that is so much bigger than you that you are no more than a pen prick. We are nothing more than thinking animals. We all come to the same end and whatever we amounted to in life means nothing when we are dead. Which brings me to my next question: Why live like anything more than an animal? There is no point, you amount to nothing more for you each die. Tell me if there is any hope or if there is none. For if there is none life is truly meaningless and people have every right to despair for we are the gods of this planet .



Your thoughts are suprisingly suicidal. Yes we are nothing more than likely products of evolution and our life would end at the grave. That's why we should enjoy our life to the fullest. Why should we act different from other animals, thats a ridiculous question. We are different from them in terms of our consciousess and etc, we could choose whats our purpose in life and what is needed for our survival. I guess (using your reason) if you were convinced that your theology is illogical then you would live with the monkeys i guess. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

And yes we are just more evolved, but I think we have evolved to a higher level. Or maybe I just have an overoptimistic opinion of us.There’s no such thing as “evolving to a higher level,” that’s just arrogance. We’ve simply evolved, and that’s it. There’s nothing special about humans, when will people get that through their heads?

is not a vertebrate a higher level than an invertebrate? isn't a chordate a higher level than a bateria. we have evolved to a higher level where we create complex tools and we don't have to worry about survival all the time.

Now, after reading this thread, I haven't been able to change my mindset.

I've spent so many late nights searching the internet for an answer, some sort of solace. It fills me to the core with fear to think that my life will one day end, and that we may simply be the product of billions upon billions of years of slow progress.

I feel most times that I was born a few centuries too soon. One day all humans will have lifespans closer to thousands of years, rather than the few we are given now. Because that will one day happen, I fear that is what the universe has been progressing towards, and that there is no god.

Being 15, i've just now realized that I must die. I can't wrap my mind around all of it, and nobody I know can comfort me. Why? Because they all must die as well. Sometimes I convince myself to a comfortable level that I will live forever, that technology will save me from this overwhelming fear.

To the totseans who simply state that we must all die and after that there is nothing else:

How are you okay with that?

I can't accept it, it just... feels wrong! I was a catholic, deep in the system, having gone to catholic schools my whole life. I never questioned, always prayed and while I found church on early sunday mornings to be a chore, I would, at times, gladly go back to that ignorance.

(Most of these realizations, etc. have come from moving to Arizona, and leaving me with more social solitude than I believe is healthy for myself.)

quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

There’s no such thing as “evolving to a higher level,” that’s just arrogance.

I don't know where you got that idea. Graemy pretty well summed up what I was going to say though, so I won't bother repeating it.



quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

We’ve simply evolved, and that’s it. There’s nothing special about humans...



Except for the fact that we have evolved to a higher level than anything else on this planet. We have evolved in such a way that we don't need to worry if we are going to eat tonight or not. We have no real predators, thanks to our relatively highly evolved brain. Because of this our insticts take the backseat and the creative aspects of our minds have developed into things unique ("special") to humans. Otherwise known as the humanities. No dog can experience literature, music, or religion the way we do.

Adrenochrome, calling people names and insulting them in general does not make you cool, nor does it prove your point.



Back to the topic, I didn't find it so hard to accept the fact that I will someday die. Just live life to the fullest and have fun, don't get hung up on these types of things. Like someone above me said, you are the center of your own universe. If you think you have a purpose in life, then you do. On the other hand, if you think you don't have a purpose, then you don't. Reality is only as real as you want it to be.



[This message has been edited by SafeAsMilk (edited 07-24-2006).]

quote:"If there is no afterlife then what are you here for?"

If the thought of a reward that you only get AFTER YOU DIE is the only thing that drives you, then you're a pathetic waste of skin. The beauty of being alive is the ability to choose WHY we want to go on. Me? I'm here to rock. And that makes me happy.

quote:Originally posted by Albatross:

If the thought of a reward that you only get AFTER YOU DIE is the only thing that drives you, then you're a pathetic waste of skin. The beauty of being alive is the ability to choose WHY we want to go on. Me? I'm here to rock. And that makes me happy.

i'm here to simply fufill the purpose of life, i am here to live.

quote:Originally posted by Aeroue:

They make all these decisions because animals have one main line of thought, self preservation, this is just instinct.



And we dont?? Everyone has that basic instinct to move towards pleasure/happiness and away from harm/danger. Maybe if we put you in a jungle full of wild animals that would eat you in a heart beat with a fairly nice knife and only the clothes on your back, you would realize that you are no better than that lion who stays alive by eating gazelles or zebras on instinct. Basically the self preservation and the moving towards pleasure go hand-in-hand.



quote:Originally posted by PitchBlack:

How are you okay with that?



Im okay with the fact that i will eventually die and that will be that because i know there is nothing i can do about. Thats life. You should give up on hoping that there will be a cure for death because its impossible. The only thing thats close to curing death is medicine and it only prolongs life and delays the inevitable. I dont mean to sound pessimistic or anything but thats the way things are, live life to the fullest and enjoy every minute of it.

Why are you afraid of death?

*dies* *opens eyes* Oops.

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Why are you afraid of death?



Because it's such a mystery. Nobody knows what is on the other side. But whatever is there, or isn't there, you will never breathe, blink, eat, move or talk again. Everything you ever knew ends for you. And it scares me, because I love the people I know, and to know that we all must depart from each other, and more importantly from everything we've ever known, simply scares me.

I'm starting to accept it, little by little. But it isn't too easy. Talking about it helps.

quote:Originally posted by Graemy:

is not a vertebrate a higher level than an invertebrate? isn't a chordate a higher level than a bateria. we have evolved to a higher level where we create complex tools and we don't have to worry about survival all the time.

We are more complex not "higher." Although that word is still used in the scientific literature. Anyways, yes, he have intelligence and thus technology. But the microbes still own this planet. They make up 30-50% of all the biomass and they contain almost all the genetic diversity of the planet. They live in evey habitable place on the plane. We came from them and if/when we're gone they will be what remains... giving rise to something new.

if they give rise to something then what ever they gave rise to should be higher.

/smartassness

so what if we came from them, there are more of them than us. we are trying to say we have a higher intelligence. we are more than just more complex. we have the ability to create great things. we have the ability to define things. we have the ability to leave this planet. we have the ability to do great things.